So when do you guys think a G90 stack is going to be beat? - AVS Forum
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post #1 of 66 Old 02-17-2007, 11:33 PM - Thread Starter
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I've been thinking about this lately considering I made the jump to a stack. I'm basically at the point of knowing for sure that I will lose my ass on these babies money wise, but boy am I going to have a pretty picture.

4000+ hours of bliss awaits me but at the same time, I've been watching, learning, and keeping up with the latest and greatest in digital. What a seriously dramatic increase in digital technology in the last 2 years. It's been an extremely fun rapid transformation to where we sit now.

Who would have ever thought that there would be a device by now that can produce a 15,000 to 1 Contrast Ratio? WOW.

Not to mention its just above 5 grand street. Times are a changin' quick.

I cant wait to see my pickin's after I enjoy a reference picture from the stack for the next 2 to 3 years.......... It's gonna be good.

Cliff
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post #2 of 66 Old 02-18-2007, 05:10 AM
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I don't know but I have had my Qualia 3 years now and won't upgrade until I can get contrast and fade to blacksimilar to Art's G-90 stack (which I have viewed many times).

.....*(so it may be a while).


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post #3 of 66 Old 02-18-2007, 06:40 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by thebland View Post

I don't know but I have had my Qualia 3 years now and won't upgrade until I can get contrast and fade to blacksimilar to Art's G-90 stack (which I have viewed many times).

.....*(so it may be a while).

It was a very difficult decision for me to stick with the G90's after hearing about the RS1's measured specs. I think the time is coming in the near future where you will be able to get CRT blacks or very close from digital.

If you don't mind me asking, how big is your screen? What kind of foot lamberts are you getting out of that Qualia? It's pretty awesome that you've had it for three years problem free. Another milestone.

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post #4 of 66 Old 02-18-2007, 07:01 AM
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I have a Qualia for last three years - I am on my first bulb - Using on a Stewart Cinecurve (with AR masking System) Greyhawk 12 foot wide Constant Height 2:35 Screen - The projector lights up the screen really good (I have not measured foot lamberts) - Josh Lehman did the Calibration.
The IRIS is set to full Open though to handle this size screen - I plan not to upgrade until something very worthy (and bright enough) comes to the market.
After watching movies in 2:35 - a projector with 2:35 lens is also a must for me - this will delay my upgrade further.
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post #5 of 66 Old 02-18-2007, 07:40 AM
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10 ft wide 1.3 gain Firehawk (16:9) Micro-Perf with Electrimask.

Still on first bulb (~600 Hours). Bulbs go to 2200 hours. Second bulb will probably sold unused when I unload it someday.

For movies, I have the Iris set to '1' (middle position) and bulb output set to dimwhich provides ~18 Ft lamberts and max CR

Or 50 ft lamberts with iris fully open in full in TV / sports broadcast mode with bulb on brightest setting. Lights can be fully in the room when viewing and the picture is very bright.


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post #6 of 66 Old 02-18-2007, 10:02 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by thebland View Post

50 ft lamberts



Sheesh that is bright. The best my stack is going to do is 12 foot lamberts.

Cliff
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post #7 of 66 Old 02-18-2007, 10:27 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by thebland View Post

For movies, I have the Iris set to '1' (middle position) and bulb output set to dimwhich provides ~18 Ft lamberts and max CR

Or 50 ft lamberts with iris fully open in full in TV / sports broadcast mode with bulb on brightest setting. Lights can be fully in the room when viewing and the picture is very bright.

Are those ft-lamberts figures for a new bulb? If so, you are probably getting a fair amount less than that at 600 hours.

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post #8 of 66 Old 02-18-2007, 10:46 AM
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Originally Posted by darinp2 View Post

Are those ft-lamberts figures for a new bulb? If so, you are probably getting a fair amount less than that at 600 hours.

--Darin

Darin,

You are probably right. I did not think of that. We took some measurements at the initial calibration and that was it. Brightness fell in 1/2 after about 200 hours.


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post #9 of 66 Old 02-18-2007, 01:36 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by darinp2 View Post

Are those ft-lamberts figures for a new bulb? If so, you are probably getting a fair amount less than that at 600 hours.

--Darin

So what do you think Darin? How long?

I'm thinking probably fall 2008.

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post #10 of 66 Old 02-18-2007, 01:46 PM
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Since Darin just bought the Marantz, I would guess that he thinks that it has already been beat.

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post #11 of 66 Old 02-18-2007, 01:53 PM
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Originally Posted by overclkr View Post

So what do you think Darin? How long?

I'm thinking probably fall 2008.

I don't think the digitals are going to beat the absolute black levels you can get with the G90 even at 15k:1 soon or even next year. But as far as overall, its a little bit like asking who was better looking on Gilligan's Island, Mary-Ann or Ginger. A 3 chip DLP like the HT5000 should beat the stacked G90s in some ways and lose in others (like on/off CR).

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post #12 of 66 Old 02-18-2007, 02:47 PM
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Overclocker

Depends on your point of view. In some areas a DLP 3 chip at 720P is far better than CRT, and CRT's stacked are worse than one crt as the convergence is a real bugger.

DLP is sharper, has flatter (near perfect) gray scale, near perfect white field uniformity, higher ANSI contrast which is needed for that 3d look, and more light output. It's only weaknesses are absolute resolution which depending on screen size and seating distance my be moot and absolute black level.

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post #13 of 66 Old 02-18-2007, 03:20 PM
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I would have thought that on/off CR and absolute blacks contributed to the 3d look more than ANSI?

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post #14 of 66 Old 02-18-2007, 03:22 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by darinp2 View Post

But as far as overall, its a little bit like asking who was better looking on Gilligan's Island, Mary-Ann or Ginger.
--Darin

LOL!!!

If I'm not mistaken, I think it was Joe Kane who said that for a light controlled theater, 8 foot lamberts is needed. I should be ok with 10 I hope. There was actually times at Art's place when I thought it was too bright at times.

I realize obviously I'll lose some sharpness with the stack but I like a more film like appearance anyway. I've always thought that Art's stack was PLENTY sharp.

I do think though that it will probably be a couple of years at the most when digital is going to have blacks damn near close to CRT blacks.

Cliff
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post #15 of 66 Old 02-18-2007, 03:23 PM - Thread Starter
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Overclocker

CRT's stacked are worse than one crt as the convergence is a real bugger.

That's going to be Ken's problem. Not mine.

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post #16 of 66 Old 02-18-2007, 03:34 PM
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Its going to be interesting when these RS1s come out and people take them over to people houses that have G90's.


I'm pretty confident a properly calibrated RS1 will beat a G90 in every category except absolute black level. Now even with stacked G90's Im certain 99 out of 100 people will rather have the RS1 from picture quality alone. Not taking into account price difference in all the equipment needed, footprint/usability, and hassle factor.

Bottom line is you really have to WANT the G90 stack. Comparative analysis would eliminate them immediatley

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post #17 of 66 Old 02-18-2007, 04:28 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tryg View Post

Its going to be interesting when these RS1s come out and people take them over to people houses that have G90's.


I'm pretty confident a properly calibrated RS1 will beat a G90 in every category except absolute black level. Now even with stacked G90's Im certain 99 out of 100 people will rather have the RS1 from picture quality alone. Not taking into account price difference in all the equipment needed, footprint/usability, and hassle factor.

Bottom line is you really have to WANT the G90 stack. Comparative analysis would eliminate them immediatley

Don Kellogg and I will be doing a directo comparison when he get's his RS1 and Ken finishes calibrating the stack. Your right, it will be interesting.

Over all though, I think the stack is going to win. We'll see.

Cliff
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post #18 of 66 Old 02-18-2007, 06:05 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tryg View Post

Its going to be interesting when these RS1s come out and people take them over to people houses that have G90's.


I'm pretty confident a properly calibrated RS1 will beat a G90 in every category except absolute black level. Now even with stacked G90's Im certain 99 out of 100 people will rather have the RS1 from picture quality alone. Not taking into account price difference in all the equipment needed, footprint/usability, and hassle factor.

Bottom line is you really have to WANT the G90 stack. Comparative analysis would eliminate them immediatley

I will ask this, do you really care about 99 out of a hundred... does that mean anything ? These days 99 out of a hundred would say emenem is more talented than the beatles.

Pure black is a big big parameter in picture quality, it's like saying that I have a hell of a personality ,am sensitive and have a great sense of humor against that handsome guy at a club.My column has more things why would you want him sweetheart !?

Oh and I'm sure you know your premonition will occur sooner than later.

Art


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post #19 of 66 Old 02-18-2007, 06:12 PM
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Originally Posted by Art Sonneborn View Post

These days 99 out of a hundred would say emenem is more talented than the beatles.


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post #20 of 66 Old 02-18-2007, 06:42 PM
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Is right !

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post #21 of 66 Old 02-18-2007, 07:56 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Art Sonneborn View Post

I will ask this, do you really care about 99 out of a hundred... does that mean anything ? These days 99 out of a hundred would say emenem is more talented than the beatles.

Pure black is a big big parameter in picture quality, it's like saying that I have a hell of a personality ,am sensitive and have a great sense of humor against that handsome guy at a club.My column has more things why would you want him sweetheart !?

Oh and I'm sure you know your premonition will occur sooner than later.

Art

I agree 100% Art. You truly have to see it to enjoy to it's full potential.

The picture that a G90 stack throws is absolutely an unmatched piece of art. Top to bottom, I don't care how many foot lamberts a digital can do, 10 to 12 foot lamberts is MORE than enough light for a controlled room.

It's actually amazing to me how much of my movie watching involves deep rich black scenes that right now, only CRT can provide.

Yes, Tryg is right, 98 percent of people wouldn't have a clue as to what we speak of, but when you know, you see, and you appreciate, there is NO compromise.

At the same time though, I asked Tryg if he has ever actually seen a G90 stack and he has not. I think I'm going to have to fly him out when the room is done to get a first hand peek.

Maybe I could get him to bring the RS1 with him.

Me love oodles and oodles of on/off CR and true black. Right now, there is no substitute other than a good CRT with a good gamma bump.

Cliff
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post #22 of 66 Old 02-19-2007, 07:49 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tryg View Post

Its going to be interesting when these RS1s come out and people take them over to people houses that have G90's.


I'm pretty confident a properly calibrated RS1 will beat a G90 in every category except absolute black level. Now even with stacked G90's Im certain 99 out of 100 people will rather have the RS1 from picture quality alone. Not taking into account price difference in all the equipment needed, footprint/usability, and hassle factor.

Bottom line is you really have to WANT the G90 stack. Comparative analysis would eliminate them immediatley

Ok Tryg, I've got the scoop first hand and this RS1 is just as good as I thought it would be. I actually recommended a good friend of mine sell his single G90 because of everything I have pieced together at this point.

I also think there is SOME things about the projector that will be better than stacked G90's, but over all, no, I'm glad I made the decision to stick with my stack. It's close, but not quite there yet.

The ONE AMAZING thing though is now the bar is set. Not only that, but at one seriously awesome price point that EVERYONE can benefit from.

What a great time to be in home theater. Awesome.

Cliff
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post #23 of 66 Old 02-19-2007, 09:36 PM
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I'll be out there

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post #24 of 66 Old 02-20-2007, 05:34 AM
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I spent five hours with the RS-1 in my theater yesterday. More to come .........

Art


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post #25 of 66 Old 02-20-2007, 06:31 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by Art Sonneborn View Post

I spent five hours with the RS-1 in my theater yesterday. More to come .........

Art

Please do tell my friend.

Cliff
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post #26 of 66 Old 02-20-2007, 08:22 AM
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Whenever a successor to HD1 with laser illumination comes along is the time when stacked G90 are beaten.

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post #27 of 66 Old 02-20-2007, 08:35 AM
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Oh, do tell.....When Art feels its time to let his G-90s go, then it will be time to sell my Qualia.

So, am I selling or holding?


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post #28 of 66 Old 02-20-2007, 12:45 PM
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You'll be selling if either of you see my RS1 with 12' 2.40 High Power

I'm confident Art could pull off a 14 footer. I've already had one customer

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post #29 of 66 Old 02-20-2007, 01:30 PM
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Don't tell me that, I wasn't planning a room upgrade at least for a couple years....


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post #30 of 66 Old 02-20-2007, 04:04 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by thebland View Post

Don't tell me that, I wasn't planning a room upgrade at least for a couple years....

If you were willing to sacrifice some light output, I bet that RS1 would light up that screen of yours real nice and your blacks would be way better than the Qualia.

Hell, you could just consider it a "temporary" upgrade.

Cliff
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