The new C3X1080 review. - Page 16 - AVS Forum
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post #451 of 877 Old 12-06-2007, 07:09 PM
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I don't know what color temperature his was adjusted to, or throw distance, when getting that reading, but mine is definately not that bright at D65, and 2.0 throw. I also have an RS1 that measures approximately 500 lumens with 293 hours on the bulb, and the bulb set on high. When I swapped out the RS1 for the C3X. the brightness was virtually identical.

Quote:


Iris Open High Lamp 18.28FC 957 Lumens
Iris Closed High Lamp 12.5FC 654 Lumens
Iris Open Low Lamp 14FC 733 Lumens
Iris Closed Low Lamp 9.6FC 502 Lumens

Those look to be the same numbers, CM. His unit might be another underperformer. Those brightness numbers seem to be half of the best ones I have been told about in best contrast mode, and dont seem to be in line with what others have reported/measured.
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post #452 of 877 Old 12-06-2007, 07:12 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by coldmachine View Post

Free, those are VERY different numbers to those you gave earlier. You're getting 1000 lumen Happier now?

I can explain the differences if you wish, though they are not significant, via pm.

Wow CM, you just can't help but try to spin things. First of all, I got 2 more lumens on low with iris closed, and 4 more lumens on high. I don't consider those very different numbers. I didn't post the iris open numbers before, but they were a bit higher. I think the Iris was not opening fully before when I measured, for some reason. Even still, I would not want to run this projector with the Iris open, because the On/Off CR is just barely at my level of tolerance, coming from an RS1.

At any rate, this is still significantly less than the rated lumens, and considerably less than others have reported. I suppose it might be much higher at a really short throw, but I am not going to mess up my install to find out.

Catdaddy, yes, the DLP look is there, and it is most noticeable in bright scenes. Where I found the RS1 to fall down, is particularly in bright scenes with light coming from behind the subject, there was definately a slight loss of depth. This holds up much better with DLP. Unlike the 3000e, I am pleased to not be seeing rainbows, so the image is very relaxing to watch.

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post #453 of 877 Old 12-06-2007, 07:17 PM
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Well, since you do need the brightness and if you want that DLP look, that is definitely tough to overlook, this, DC4 3chip, might still be the best option for you, Free.
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post #454 of 877 Old 12-06-2007, 07:18 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Free View Post

Wow CM, you just can't help but try to spin things.

I have spun nothing, i have no need to.

You posted max lumens as 650 in high lamp, then showed nearly 1000. I assumed you were reporting an increase.

There is something wrong then, as Jason and I had the same numbers.

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post #455 of 877 Old 12-06-2007, 07:19 PM
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I e-mailed Jason, and he said that my numbers seemed right from his memory.

Phil
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post #456 of 877 Old 12-06-2007, 07:26 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Catdaddy67 View Post

His unit might be another underperformer.

There wasn't a previous under performer, assuming you are referring to the original review unit.

Anyway i don't want to get into a thing about under performing PJs.

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post #457 of 877 Old 12-06-2007, 07:27 PM
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I'm confused, what's the deal. I just ordered a 59" x 139" cine-w studiotek, to move up from my current 51" x 120" cine-w.

I was expecting to get 20 ft-l, even when set to low lamp and iris closed.... However, I will be at 1.45 throw with this larger screen.



Damn dumb small case!!!!
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post #458 of 877 Old 12-06-2007, 07:31 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Free View Post

I e-mailed Jason, and he said that my numbers seemed right from his memory.

OK fair enough. I'll leave it there.

Good luck

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post #459 of 877 Old 12-06-2007, 07:38 PM
 
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Seems like CMs projector may have been cherry picked. Quite a variance between projectors here.

CR max=7020@1100 lumen
ANSI= 695
Max Lumen= 1250
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post #460 of 877 Old 12-06-2007, 07:40 PM
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Quote:


There wasn't a previous under performer, assuming you are referring to the original review unit.

Anyway i don't want to get into a thing about under performing PJs.

Well, that first unit was more than underperforming. Iwas being generous. It sounded like it was defective. I am thinking that either Free's unit is underperforming or other reported units are overperfoming.
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post #461 of 877 Old 12-06-2007, 07:49 PM
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I think the difference is in calibration. Jason changed settings in the service menu, because the D65 setting was actually 7000 out of the box. Once someone has their projector properly calibrated, not just selecting the D65 setting in the user menu, the output numbers should be a bit less.

Phil
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post #462 of 877 Old 12-06-2007, 07:52 PM
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What kind of ft-lamberts can I expect with a 59" x 139" studiotek, on low lamp, iris closed? Do I need to cancel my order for the bigger screen and just keep my 51" x 120" ?
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post #463 of 877 Old 12-06-2007, 07:55 PM
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Chris, I think it would be prudent to hold off until you get your projector, and see just what it will produce. Then you can order the new screen based on what your unit can do.

Phil
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post #464 of 877 Old 12-06-2007, 07:57 PM
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It seems like with massive amounts of light hitting the screen the difference between 350:1 and 700:1 will be lost in all but the most extreme bat cave. I have a very dark but not 100% bat cave (WAF). Art, I know you are totally bat-caved. What about others (cold/ian)?
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post #465 of 877 Old 12-06-2007, 07:58 PM
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I can't believe we are even having to have this discussion... why is this projector $32K ? I know the answer as cold machine repeats it often, optics, etc... I'm sure ansi contrast is great, but for $32K there seem to be significant compromises in this projector based on having to deal with such a small case... Personally, I think the decision to use the same exact case was not a good one. Same shape with a few inches bigger in dimension would have made some sense. I am driving my current 51" x 120" screen with a RUBY which is 1.5 years old with no problem, so it is hard for me to believe that a c3x1080 would have any problem whatsoever driving a 59" x 139" screen even in low lamp mode, iris closed
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post #466 of 877 Old 12-06-2007, 07:58 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Catdaddy67 View Post

Well, that first unit was more than underperforming. Iwas being generous. It sounded like it was defective. I am thinking that either Free's unit is underperforming or other reported units are overperfoming.


Cat, Rather than sniping away at someone who has gone out of their way to help you, contact the person who reported those figures for an explanation.

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post #467 of 877 Old 12-06-2007, 08:02 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Health Nut View Post

What kind of ft-lamberts can I expect with a 59" x 139" studiotek, on low lamp, iris closed? Do I need to cancel my order for the bigger screen and just keep my 51" x 120" ?

I remember someone going on these tirades about how could a certain company expect to sell a $15K msrp pj that would output only ~700 lumens when calibrated. There was absolutely no marke for such a beast.

I guess however there is a market for a $30K msrp pj which outputs only ~700 lumens when calibrated!
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post #468 of 877 Old 12-06-2007, 08:05 PM
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Yes, but the lumens on this projector are coming in much lower than expected... I'm kinda baffled right now. Sheeze! Maybe I should just buy a damn RS-2 and wait another year... At least Sim got the 5000 unit correct... apparently, if you pay only $32K, your lucky to get some scraps...
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post #469 of 877 Old 12-06-2007, 08:08 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Free View Post

I think the difference is in calibration. Jason changed settings in the service menu, because the D65 setting was actually 7000 out of the box. Once someone has their projector properly calibrated, not just selecting the D65 setting in the user menu, the output numbers should be a bit less.

My calibration was done to a far higher standard than that used in the review with vastly better equipment and facilities, not just using a user D65.I made all of that clear when I reported it

The figures i posted are 100% accurate. Jason was given the figures and stated that his were very close to that. That is not what is reflected with your unit.

Free, I also dont doubt your figures.

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post #470 of 877 Old 12-06-2007, 08:09 PM
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CM, why is it that you take any criticsm, question, or concern about any SIM2 product as a jumping on or a swipe against you? I in no way, shape, or form am sniping at you.

I appreciate your relaying of the measures of the 15S1 and all the information you have shared with me, but surely all of that wasnt conditioned on me muting my thoughts on any of these PJs that I find interesting to me?

You certainly have seen my criticsm of JVC and Marantz and seemed to be happy about those. All I am saying here is that Free's specific unit seems to be underperforming versus those reported by you and others. I dont see how that is a swipe against you, or even SIM2 for that matter.

I know from experience its hard to not take it personally when someone says something negative about one of your valued toys but believe me I havent started questioning SIM2 yet, and because of you I will give them more of a benefit of the doubt when I do, like I believe I have here.
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post #471 of 877 Old 12-06-2007, 08:18 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Catdaddy67 View Post

CM, why is it that you take any criticsm, question, or concern about any SIM2 product as a jumping on or a swipe against you? I in no way, shape, or form am sniping at you.

I appreciate your relaying of the measures of the 15S1 and all the information you have shared with me, but surely all of that wasnt conditioned on me muting my thoughts on any of these PJs that I find interesting to me?

You certainly have seen my criticsm of JVC and Marantz and seemed to be happy about those. All I am saying here is that Free's specific unit seems to be underperforming versus those reported by you and others. I dont see how that is a swipe against you, or even SIM2 for that matter.

I know from experience its hard to not take it personally when someone says something negative about one of your valued toys but believe me I havent started questioning SIM2 yet, and because of you I will give them more of a benefit of the doubt when I do, like I believe I have here.

OK I'll leave it there.

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post #472 of 877 Old 12-06-2007, 08:20 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by coldmachine View Post

You should be over 1000 too then, if you wish, correct?

Big step up in ANSI too, from 150.


I wish I measured lumens with bulb set at 250 when the bulb was new, but for the fun of it I just measured and it seems my bulb has already dimmed some.

When I first got the projector I measured over 700 lumens on LOW lamp. Now on low lamp I'm getting 505.

On high I'm getting 650. Again, don't know what it was when bulb was new.

I don't know how many hours on the bulb (no meter on this puppy like the RS1) - unless it's hidden in a service menu (if someone knows, please enlighten me).

Yes, huge step up in ANSI. Image is spectacular.
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post #473 of 877 Old 12-06-2007, 08:23 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ian_Currie View Post

I wish I measured lumens with bulb set at 250 when the bulb was new, but for the fun of it I just measured and it seems my bulb has already dimmed some.

When I first got the projector I measured over 700 lumens on LOW lamp. Now on low lamp I'm getting 505.

On high I'm getting 650. Again, don't know what it was when bulb was new.

I don't know how many hours on the bulb (no meter on this puppy like the RS1) - unless it's hidden in a service menu (if someone knows, please enlighten me).

Yes, huge step up in ANSI. Image is spectacular.

Press the info button. It is on the lower right side, directly across from the Zoom. Mine has 27 hours on it. Sounds like mine is not so unusual after all.

Phil
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post #474 of 877 Old 12-06-2007, 08:26 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Health Nut View Post



Yes, but the lumens on this projector are coming in much lower than expected... I'm kinda baffled right now. Sheeze! Maybe I should just buy a damn RS-2 and wait another year... At least Sim got the 5000 unit correct... apparently, if you only pay $32K, your lucky to get some scraps...

The reality is that the d65 calibrated dE < 3:
the HT 5000 is ~ 1300 lumen/ 5000:1 machine (+/-) 10%
the C3X 1080 is ~ 700 lumen / 4,000:1 machine (+/-) 10%

I got those numbers from the chief tech of a left coast post production company.

The $15K pj that "no one would buy" measures 700 lumens / 6,000:1/ 40,000:1 DI
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post #475 of 877 Old 12-06-2007, 08:32 PM
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Like I said, Sim really made some compromises on this projector by sticking with the same case...


Quote:


The $15K pj that "no one would buy" measures 700 lumens / 6,000:1/ 40,000:1 DI

What was the ANSI contrast on that?

I don't think the $15K (or was it $15,999?) 'Ruby2' (VW200) is flying off the shelf... Its basically an overpriced Ruby with poor ANSI contrast and still relying on the DI way too much... VW-200 bwah... Sony's best deal is the VW-60.

I do however agree that price for performance is important. I full expected a lot more lumens after calibration. I'm still oozing stool down my leg .... It may be 'nice', but the C3X 1080 is seeming more and more like an underperformer to me...
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post #476 of 877 Old 12-06-2007, 08:43 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HoustonHoyaFan View Post

The reality is that the d65 calibrated dE < 3:
the HT 5000 is ~ 1300 lumen/ 5000:1 machine (+/-) 10%
the C3X 1080 is ~ 700 lumen / 4,000:1 machine (+/-) 10%

I got those numbers from the chief tech of a left coast post production company.

The $15K pj that "no one would buy" measures 700 lumens / 6,000:1/ 40,000:1 DI

Im not getting involve in a trolling session but your figures are just not correct.

at dE of 2, HT5000s on this forum deliver 1800-2000L

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post #477 of 877 Old 12-06-2007, 08:46 PM
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Great, a positive note on the 5000....
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post #478 of 877 Old 12-06-2007, 09:04 PM
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OK heres the quote from the AVS review

"Light Output: Most definitely has some. Seriously, it is very bright, noticeably brighter than any single chip DLP, or any other HT projector technologies. It is not the brightest of the 3-Chip 1080p’s by any means (its big brother the HT5000 takes that category)"


Thats quite clear and it reflects my own experience. If the above quote is true, and in my experience it is,then it must outperforms the HT380 at 750L and the HT3000e at 1000L ,both D65 figures., not to mention the other technologies.

Im done guys.

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post #479 of 877 Old 12-06-2007, 09:06 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Citation4444 View Post

I personally think Jason is making a huge mistake in leaving his measurements out of his reviews. The main value of his reviews were that he was comparing pj's in the same environment, i.e. his room - as imperfect as it may be.

Bob

As do I Bob. I guess that he has to draw a line between what he can and can't post about a product he sells. I hope you reconsider Jason and also hope that any one company didn't put presure on you not to publish something that may not paint there product in their advertised light.

I just don't want your insightful reviews to become watered down.
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post #480 of 877 Old 12-06-2007, 09:14 PM
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That sounds about right to me. If he no longer publishes actual numbers it stops being a review and just becomes a marketing tool. No one is going to take what he writes seriously. I mean it's their forum and they can obviously do what they like, but in the long run I really think that this is short-sighted.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Spizz View Post

As do I Bob. I guess that he has to draw a line between what he can and can't post about a product he sells. I hope you reconsider Jason and also hope that any one company didn't put presure on you not to publish something that may not paint there product in their advertised light.

I just don't want your insightful reviews to become watered down.


Tom Huffman
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ISF/THX Calibrations
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