The new C3X1080 review. - Page 22 - AVS Forum
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post #631 of 877 Old 12-10-2007, 10:14 AM
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What is the frequency playback with a 24p input? 24, 48....?
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post #632 of 877 Old 12-10-2007, 10:19 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tony Costanza View Post

What is the frequency playback with a 24p input? 24, 48....?

It takes 24 and spits out 48 just like a real film projector
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post #633 of 877 Old 12-10-2007, 11:47 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Health Nut View Post

**** it, I've ordered the new screen anyway. There is something wrong if this projector can't light up a 59" x 139" studiotek... I'm also going to be using a 1.45 throw (TI lens) and ISCO 3.

HN:

I just put up my ST 130 59.5" x 140". The screen looks gorgeous. I'm just waiting for the projector! I think it will be bright enough. I will be using the T2 lens and ISCO 3.

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post #634 of 877 Old 12-10-2007, 11:51 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Alan Gouger View Post

It takes 24 and spits out 48 just like a real film projector

Is that something like eating lightening and $hitting thunder ?

Art


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post #635 of 877 Old 12-10-2007, 03:13 PM
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Hey Jeff... I'm with ya... Take a look at the C3X 1080 screen thread... I ordered a black area carpet (12' x 18') and balck velvet material to go around the screen like a canopy. the room is 14' 6" by 26.5'... I need to use the width of the room and my throw will be 1.46
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post #636 of 877 Old 12-11-2007, 06:27 AM
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I have further refined my understanding of the "Iris Bug" in my projector. What I believe is happening, is that the menu is showing the Iris open, when it is in fact closed.

When I start up the projector (after shutting it off with the Iris closed) and go into the menu, it says the iris is open. Then I select closed, but I don't see a visible change. I then switch to open, and hear it click, and the image brightens. Switching back to closed produces a noticeable click and image change.

So I think the bug is in the menu display, not the Iris. I also think I have seen the menu do this, without even shutting off the projector.

Has anyone else experienced this? I am hoping that this is a global bug that will be fixed in an update.

Phil
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post #637 of 877 Old 12-11-2007, 06:54 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Free View Post

Has anyone else experienced this? I am hoping that this is a global bug that will be fixed in an update.

Update should be out later this month. There are a couple of things being fixed and improved.

- Stephan
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post #638 of 877 Old 12-11-2007, 06:59 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Stephan View Post

Update should be out later this month. There are a couple of things being fixed and improved.

True.

I really cant stress enough how much i urge people to report issues to Sim. They do update frequently and meaningfully. Thy certainly don't have a " F**k you, buy the next box" attitude at all.

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post #639 of 877 Old 12-11-2007, 06:59 AM
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Art. NO. It would be the other way around. You would be eating thunder and ........ lightening. Thunder is the lower speed wave.

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post #640 of 877 Old 12-11-2007, 07:27 AM
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OK, just contacted Sim2 with my bug report. Also included a request for finer brightness adjustment. We will see how this turns out.

Phil
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post #641 of 877 Old 12-11-2007, 07:36 AM
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Free:

You seem to be one of those fortunate people who appear to have nearly unlimited resources to spend on this hobby. You have recently owned the C3X, C3X1080, RS1, XV-Z20000, and 3000E (am I leaving something out?).

It would be nice if you could summarize your reactions to all of these in a single post or thread. Am I correct in assuming that of this bunch the C3X1080 is your favorite?

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Cat, my comparison from memory is that other than rainbows, I was dissatisfied with the black level of the 3000e. After my calibration, I am much more satisfied with the 1080 in that area. In fact, I put in Underworld last night, and the black leather coats on the characters were so realistic, it was hard to watch the movie. Not only was the black solid, but the texture was so real, I felt I could reach out and touch it.

Other than that, the image to my eye is much more solid, and stable. I don't know how much of that has to do with my sensitivity to rainbows, but it is so much more relaxing to watch. The 3000 was very clean, so it isn't a noise issue, but it just doesn't have the solidity of the 1080.

One thing I am finding with this projector, is that the source material makes a huge difference. It is not that it worse with lower quality material than other projectors, it is just that the projector is no longer the limit in what the source material can reveal, so there is a bigger jump in quality with each step up in source material. So by comparison, only to itself, lesser quality source material may seem less satisfying.

Anyone who auditions this projector owes it to themselves to see the very best material on it, to truly appreciate what it can do.


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post #642 of 877 Old 12-11-2007, 07:36 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Free View Post

OK, just contacted Sim2 with my bug report. Also included a request for finer brightness adjustment. We will see how this turns out.

The finer adjust is on the list.

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post #643 of 877 Old 12-11-2007, 08:11 AM
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Tom, I have owned all of the projectors you mentioned, except the 3000e, which I only had for a weekend. I still own the Sharp and JVC, so those are my best comparisons.

I really loved the old C3X, and the only thing that made me give it up was the relatively poor on/off CR. I also felt the timing was right, since everything was going 1080, and I knew that eventually Sim2 would come out with a 1080 version. The 3000e was a very nice projector, very clean, but for me, RBE was too noticeable, because of the extra brightness, and the on/off CR, left me wanting more.

I have posted my comparison between the RS1 and Sharp, both of which I like, for different reasons. The high ANSI and color accuracy of the Sharp, and the High CR, and relaxing image of the RS1, since I am bothered by RBE. The CR difference between the Sharp and RS1 is minimal, perhaps more obvious on the new RS2, but I don't have that one....yet.

In comes the C3X1080, and it takes the best of the 3000e, Sharp 20K, the RS1, and the C3X 720, puts them in the oven, and comes out with an almost perfect soufflé. Although the on/off CR could be a hair better, it is very close to the Sharp and RS1, and only noticeable on the very darkest, fades to black. Everything else about this projector is phenomenal. The image is rock solid, reasonably bright, even for larger screens, certainly brighter than the RS1, and way, way brighter than the Sharp. The fact that it is so bright, is a strong testament to how difficult it must have been to get the CR up there.

The only real downside that I have been seeing, is that it is somewhat painful to go from really good HD material, to SD. Part of it is due, I think to the brightness revealing more noise, softness, and imperfections, and part, I think, is because the performance is so high, good source material is no longer limited by the projector, so the gap between SD, and HD seems a lot greater.

Overall, I think this one is a keeper.

Phil
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post #644 of 877 Old 12-11-2007, 08:19 AM
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Free,
How about lamp-life? And do you use a VP with it?
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post #645 of 877 Old 12-11-2007, 08:49 AM
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How much lens shift can be achieved with a lens zoom set at 2.15 (D/W)?

I have not seen any tables on the limits.
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post #646 of 877 Old 12-11-2007, 09:00 AM
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Javry, as you can see from my projector list, I rarely get to test out the lamp life of a single unit.

Right now, I am using a Crystalio 2, mainly for switching. I have run directly to the projector, and didn't really notice much difference, but I need to spend more time to make a solid judgement on that.

Phil
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post #647 of 877 Old 12-11-2007, 09:02 AM
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Good question about lamp life. I too will be going straight into the Projector by using a Geffen HDMI switcher and no video processor. My thoughts are that the internal processor is on par with the latest processor like the Radiance, or close enough... and certainly better than my current Vision HDQ. I'll have to figure out how to set up 2.35 vertical stretch with the C3X 1080.
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post #648 of 877 Old 12-11-2007, 09:29 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by overclkr View Post

Your getting 18 foot lamberts at 14ft wide with the Qualia?

That's pretty damn awesome if you ask me..........

Cliff

I may be wrong but I think his current screen is 10ft wide.

Next projector will have LEDs, >=1080 res, >=10 bit color, >14bit CR, >9 bit ANSI CR, >=120Hz, >16ft.L on 12ft 2.35:1 screen, <$12bit price


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post #649 of 877 Old 12-11-2007, 09:30 AM
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Is the Sim2 using a Gennum chip for scaling?


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post #650 of 877 Old 12-11-2007, 09:46 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by thebland View Post

Is the Sim2 using a Gennum chip for scaling?

They use modified Pixelworks chips with 100% custom software. I'll quote myself from an earlier thread first

"Pixelworks, but that is only half the story. The VP software is written and developed in house specifically for these machines and is one of the main plus points of Sim2 machines. The algorithms are not available elsewhere.The downside is that it adds to the cost.

Most peoples experience is that current external VPs are unable to offer improvements over the on board VP. I used 2 high end VPs on my HT5000 and both, at best, made no difference at all and in many modes actually degraded the picture. The VP is common across the range. Most Sim2 users totally bypass any VP or receiver for video and go straight to the PJ."

Alan has also tried and rejected the best VPs available.

I believe Art also goes Commando, VP wise


Then Jason from the same thread

"I have found similar. The internal processor on the Sim2's with the 10bit processing are top notch. I just installed and HT5000 and played with a couple processors. We ended up with a less expensive one mainly to use as a transcoder/switcher as it really didn't add much to the performance.

As coldmachine said, Sim2 does all their designs, programming, software, etc... I have been to the factory and their engineers are on their A game all day long. They source out parts (like the lens) to be physically made, but, they still do all the design work. It was funny, when I was at the factory we were being taken on a tour we passed by one of the optical engineers desks, and on the desktop was a ray trace of the C3X. Now I have a background in optics so I had a larger appreciation than some, but wow, it was impressive."


The software is actually one of the reasons the can seem more expensive than others,as its all in house. If you change res or sources you can see the algorithm mode numbers flash up for the scaling and deinterlacing if you wish. Rather than one big program, they use single tailored modules for each specific mode. This applies to all the VP, where the chain is modular. Modules not used don't sit a null position, they are actually dropped from the chain, thus minimizing the signal path. It also makes upgrading easier.

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post #651 of 877 Old 12-11-2007, 09:59 AM
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Hmmm... Good explanation. But I'll take my outboard Radiance processor. Besides, I need all their enhancements for SD DVD, masking, etc since my screen is so large. Moreover, since all 6 HDMI inputs are always active, HDCP handshake issues have been non existant when changing sources. The 2nd HDMI out is nice as well (and HDMI 1.3 option). I am surprised they would add this cost to an expensive PJ when better solutions are available. Scaling is all Lumagen does.. Like my Halcro SSP which included a 1080P scaler for a $2500 upcharge. It has been disabled since purchase. . .... The Radiance is very slick and stable and provides beautiful picture.


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post #652 of 877 Old 12-11-2007, 10:11 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by thebland View Post

I am surprised they would add this cost to an expensive PJ when better solutions are available. Scaling is all Lumagen does


Both Alan myself and many others have found that not to be the case, in terms of PQ. Input flexibility is obviously better with an external unit, but a HOST version for an extra 3k negates that, or will when released. The HT5000 has 6 HDMIs and a load of other inputs. The HOST option will add this connectivity to the other machines to be hosted...HT3000 and the 1080

As for masking, all the user memories can have 3 aspect ratios assigned giving 18 per i/p. These can fire a masking system on an individual basis if required.

Alan just dumped a C2 and found his image to be cleaner, he had the same result with the other high end units including the Radiance, and i was the same.

Also, the software is frequently updated and improved so owners will see VP improvements over the life of the unit.

Dont get me wrong, Im not saying that there isn't a circumstance that an external unit isn't better. As for the added cost, well it is there, but many of the modules have been developed over time and the main library modules are applied across the range, so it could have been worse i suppose.


Obviously if the radiance works for you thats all that matters.

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post #653 of 877 Old 12-11-2007, 01:52 PM
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I'm with Jeff. I love the flexibility the Lumagens offer. Inputs galore, high power configrable triggers, switching, etc. 2 HDMI simply isn't practical in this world. Well not for me. And I strongly prefer a single cable to the PJ. Which of course you can get with HOST, but for the money, I'd still prefer a Lumagen in lieu of. And upgrades have been one of Lumagen's strong suites. I've never seen a company that provided better and as frequent fw upgrades adn enhancements as Lumagen. I prefer to go naitive into the PJ. So many people have reported so many problems with HDMI switchers, especially with HDCP handshakes, power up sequences, etc. If for no other reason I'd like the Lumagen for it's superior switching capabilities. I too would like to see more partner relationships. Pass some savings along and skip the software development. Give us a light engine from the light engine experts, give us a scaler from the scaler experts.

When I change from my Sim2, I don't have to lose the "HOST" investment already made, it can stay behind (ala Lumagen), ready for the next projector. I have to say that my HDP has been one of the best and longest lasting components I have ever purchased. They won this finiky customer over. It's been behind 4 projectors, and I can't count how many fw upgrades and enhancements.

But it comes with a price, albeit street less than HOST no?.

It's a good thing that since Sim2 did the processing engine, that it's working well for those who dont' have a VP or don't want to invest in one.

I'd really like to see Rogers review it. Not much to wonder about once he does one. Takes most of the subjectivity out of the "picture" . Anyone know if he has any plans to get one? What was his last WSR review, dosen't seem like I've seen one in a while. Maybe hes busy getting the new HDG4000 Signal Generator out.

Cheers,
Scott


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post #654 of 877 Old 12-11-2007, 01:57 PM
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Quote:


And I strongly prefer a single cable to the PJ. Which of course you can get with HOST

I'm going to be using one cable... that is what the Geffen 6 x 2 HDMI switcher is for... I can't imagine a problem with a Geffen HDMI switcher, it is all they do!

Much less expensive too!
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post #655 of 877 Old 12-11-2007, 03:21 PM
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I have a Gefen switch...IT has worked well for me but it does not keep all inputs active at once so hand shakes can be issues (and slow) at times (particularly with HD DVD). I have the 4X1 HDMI Gefen. No problem there with the Radiance.

Moreover, with the Lumagen you can have 2 different sources through each HDMI out AND scaled to each display's native rate.... all at once!! Send a native rate to the PJ and scale a different rate to a plasma / second monitor. Really flexible.


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post #656 of 877 Old 12-11-2007, 03:33 PM
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I just bought the Oppo switcher, which replaced my Gefen X4 HDMI box. This thing is pretty fast in the handshake and the price is right.The unit is already 1.3.

http://www.oppodigital.com/hm31/
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post #657 of 877 Old 12-11-2007, 03:36 PM
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I'll agree with GetGray on this one. I own a C3X and have auditioned/calibrated most of the new Sim2's, including a couple HT5000's and I'll put my vote in for the Radiance at this point. Maybe when Sim2 finally releases their CMS software I will change my mind, but we'll see.

Bob
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post #658 of 877 Old 12-11-2007, 03:39 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GetGray View Post

I'm with Jeff. I love the flexibility the Lumagens offer. Inputs galore, high power configrable triggers, switching, etc. 2 HDMI simply isn't practical in this world. Well not for me. And I strongly prefer a single cable to the PJ. Which of course you can get with HOST, but for the money, I'd still prefer a Lumagen in lieu of. And upgrades have been one of Lumagen's strong suites. I've never seen a company that provided better and as frequent fw upgrades adn enhancements as Lumagen. I prefer to go naitive into the PJ. So many people have reported so many problems with HDMI switchers, especially with HDCP handshakes, power up sequences, etc. If for no other reason I'd like the Lumagen for it's superior switching capabilities. I too would like to see more partner relationships. Pass some savings along and skip the software development. Give us a light engine from the light engine experts, give us a scaler from the scaler experts.

When I change from my Sim2, I don't have to lose the "HOST" investment already made, it can stay behind (ala Lumagen), ready for the next projector. I have to say that my HDP has been one of the best and longest lasting components I have ever purchased. They won this finiky customer over. It's been behind 4 projectors, and I can't count how many fw upgrades and enhancements.

But it comes with a price, albeit street less than HOST no?.

It's a good thing that since Sim2 did the processing engine, that it's working well for those who dont' have a VP or don't want to invest in one.

I'd really like to see Rogers review it. Not much to wonder about once he does one. Takes most of the subjectivity out of the "picture" . Anyone know if he has any plans to get one? What was his last WSR review, dosen't seem like I've seen one in a while. Maybe hes busy getting the new HDG4000 Signal Generator out.

Cheers,
Scott

The unit is so good already why would you want Rogers to tell how good it is.
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post #659 of 877 Old 12-11-2007, 05:07 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by thebland View Post

I have a Gefen switch...IT has worked well for me but it does not keep all inputs active at once so hand shakes can be issues (and slow) at times (particularly with HD DVD). I have the 4X1 HDMI Gefen. No problem there with the Radiance.

Moreover, with the Lumagen you can have 2 different sources through each HDMI out AND scaled to each display's native rate.... all at once!! Send a native rate to the PJ and scale a different rate to a plasma / second monitor. Really flexible.

Jeff:

I thought the output resolution from 1 and 2 when used simultanously must be the same. I didn't think you could run 1080P out of output 1 and at the same time run 720P out of output # 2
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post #660 of 877 Old 12-11-2007, 05:10 PM
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Not yet... but it is coming..


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