The new C3X1080 review. - Page 25 - AVS Forum
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post #721 of 877 Old 01-29-2008, 07:48 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by astrojeff View Post

With all this talk about convergence, I took a couple of pictures from my screen adjustment image from the menu. The lines are 3 pixels wide. What do you guys think. No adjustment done yet with FW.
I think they are all supposed to be white, but the vertical line on the right side of the screen in blue.

Jeff

If you ask me for $32,000.00 it should be a lot better than that. It would drive me nuts.
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post #722 of 877 Old 01-29-2008, 09:37 AM
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The FW will only address/adjust it if it is out evenly across the whole screen, right?
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post #723 of 877 Old 01-29-2008, 09:38 AM
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Originally Posted by RevelMN View Post

If you ask me for $32,000.00 it should be a lot better than that. It would drive me nuts.

This is the big boys forum. Some of these guys lose more than that running for a cab

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post #724 of 877 Old 01-29-2008, 10:49 AM
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Originally Posted by GetGray View Post

The FW will only address/adjust it if it is out evenly across the whole screen, right?

This appears to be the case. The best improvement has been to those units a full pixel out (or more), and those reporting the improvements indicate that half or so out would not see any improvement (not that it is needed at half out, although it is always nice to be "perfect").

Jim
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post #725 of 877 Old 01-29-2008, 12:04 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ian_Currie View Post

Jeff, the fw update will let you fix that. I've been running many hours since the update and having no problems. In fact, I'm getting better HDMI handshakes now (although that could just be a coincidence).

Thanks, Ian. I am waiting for the FW from my dealer. May need some help with instructions on how to download it and get into the service menu. I will PM you, if necessary.

J
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post #726 of 877 Old 01-29-2008, 12:29 PM
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No problem, happy to help.
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post #727 of 877 Old 01-29-2008, 03:09 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JlgLaw View Post

This appears to be the case. The best improvement has been to those units a full pixel out (or more), and those reporting the improvements indicate that half or so out would not see any improvement (not that it is needed at half out, although it is always nice to be "perfect").

Jim

Ah, I see. This "Phase convergence alignment" seems to simply change the position of the read/green/blue image on the panels (or whatever the DLP "things" are called?), so it will only allow convergence alignment of full pixels. Intra pixel alignment isn't possible.
I am a little disappointed, that SIM2 has to add this as a firmware update. Although it is nice that users can now fix their units, I expect a machine like the C3X1080 to have less than 1 pixel misconvergence as full pixel alignment should be done during production.
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post #728 of 877 Old 01-29-2008, 04:35 PM
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If you read between the lines, its not actually a FW update.

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post #729 of 877 Old 01-29-2008, 04:51 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by coldmachine View Post

If you read between the lines, its not actually a FW update.


You can't "read between the lines". You can only adjust per one pixel minimum. HA!

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post #730 of 877 Old 01-30-2008, 07:30 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by coldmachine View Post

If you read between the lines, its not actually a FW update.

Software version 3.12.86
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post #731 of 877 Old 01-30-2008, 07:58 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by astrojeff View Post

Software version 3.12.86

Not sure what you mean.

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post #732 of 877 Old 01-30-2008, 08:14 AM
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Why isn't it a FW update, coldmachine? Not sure what you mean.

I think Jeff is pointing out that the software version gets updated (after you perform the update), therefore it is an 'update'....
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post #733 of 877 Old 01-30-2008, 09:06 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Greg Young View Post

I was wondering if Sim2 added a bigger cover on the 1080p C3X for the next generation how would that make the projector better? Would there be more light output? Some have commented the unit is to small for the 1080p chips?

The C3X could have been a better performer. Higher lumens, higher contrast and almost zero CA.

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post #734 of 877 Old 01-30-2008, 11:44 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by coldmachine View Post

The C3X could have been a better performer. Higher lumens, higher contrast and almost zero CA.

And they could have priced it much cheaper, right???

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post #735 of 877 Old 01-30-2008, 12:07 PM
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There will be no issue with a T1 lens and the C3X 1080, for anyone, as long as you stay at the very end of the throw... but you really need to be very close to the end... like 1.6... anything less than 1.6 and you may start getting CA and even shadows from using the full surface of the ISCO 3 and even hitting the inside edge of the lens housing which will cast shadows on the edges... Of course, SIM2 did not optomize this case for anamorphic lenses, which I feel is inexcuseable: 1) in this price category 2) the clientel who buy this projector 3) bundled option from company with ISCO 3. 4) It is always better to use the LEAST amount of the ISCO 3 glass as possible, so performance is better if you can near flush mount the anamorphic lens, for ALL scenarios.

So basically, there is extreme limitation of using the T1 lens with an ISCO3 limited to approximately 1.58-1.66 and certainly, if possible mount at 1.62-1.64. Of further note, My T1 C3X exceeded spec and was capable of 1.72 throw and I still could zoom a little more (and I am using almost zero lens shift). That being said, I fully expected this to work at 1.5 throw... There was no warning or indication that the T1 lens is so drastically limited with use for the ISCO 3.

No improvements in case design over the old C3X... Not good for such a high cost projector. The small case cost us quality loss and could have been a better performer... 3 inches bigger case and a near flush mounted lens.... not too much to ask for in a $32,000.00 projector... for that, I am uspet with SIM. Not to mention I have shadows on my screen edges, something that would not happen if the case was better designed to allow for closer mounting of the ISCO 3.
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post #736 of 877 Old 01-30-2008, 12:09 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Steve Bruzonsky View Post

And they could have priced it much cheaper, right???

No, but the others were certainly doable

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post #737 of 877 Old 01-30-2008, 12:38 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by coldmachine View Post

The C3X could have been a better performer. Higher lumens, higher contrast and almost zero CA.

I almost pulled the trigger on the C3X1080 but I am hesitating at the moment, because of some issues raised by members (convergence, brightness). Can you suggest an alternative, I might have overlooked? RS1 / RS2 are too dark, SONY VW200 is too dark, HT5000 too big / heavy and a little expensive and has probably less contrast. Anything else? Titan 1080p/250? (which lacks HDMI inputs...)
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post #738 of 877 Old 01-30-2008, 12:41 PM
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Brightness isnt an issue. 1100 calibrated.

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post #739 of 877 Old 01-30-2008, 12:50 PM
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Originally Posted by coldmachine View Post

Brightness isnt an issue. 1100 calibrated.

1100 lumen would result in 18 ftl on my screen, which should be fine.
But considering light drop / bulb aging it could even be a little bit brighter...
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post #740 of 877 Old 01-30-2008, 12:52 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wuffzack View Post

I almost pulled the trigger on the C3X1080 but I am hesitating at the moment, because of some issues raised by members (convergence, brightness). Can you suggest an alternative, I might have overlooked? RS1 / RS2 are too dark, SONY VW200 is too dark, HT5000 too big / heavy and a little expensive and has probably less contrast. Anything else? Titan 1080p/250? (which lacks HDMI inputs...)

You could try the Runco three chips but they are bigger yet,with half the contrast of the HT5000 and cost twice as much.

Titan 250 has less light output than the HT5000,is similar size and cost.


What size screen are you looking to light up ?

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post #741 of 877 Old 01-30-2008, 01:01 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Health Nut View Post

There will be no issue with a T1 lens and the C3X 1080, for anyone, as long as you stay at the very end of the throw... but you really need to be very close to the end... like 1.6... anything less than 1.6 and you may start getting CA and even shadows from using the full surface of the ISCO 3 and even hitting the inside edge of the lens housing which will cast shadows on the edges... Of course, SIM2 did not optomize this case for anamorphic lenses, which I feel is inexcuseable: 1) in this price category 2) the clientel who buy this projector 3) bundled option from company with ISCO 3. 4) It is always better to use the LEAST amount of the ISCO 3 glass as possible, so performance is better if you can near flush mount the anamorphic lens, for ALL scenarios.

So basically, there is extreme limitation of using the T1 lens with an ISCO3 limited to approximately 1.58-1.66 and certainly, if possible mount at 1.62-1.64. Of further note, My T1 C3X exceeded spec and was capable of 1.72 throw and I still could zoom a little more (and I am using almost zero lens shift). That being said, I fully expected this to work at 1.5 throw... There was no warning or indication that the T1 lens is so drastically limited with use for the ISCO 3.

No improvements in case design over the old C3X... Not good for such a high cost projector. The small case cost us quality loss and could have been a better performer... 3 inches bigger case and a near flush mounted lens.... not too much to ask for in a $32,000.00 projector... for that, I am uspet with SIM. Not to mention I have shadows on my screen edges, something that would not happen if the case was better designed to allow for closer mounting of the ISCO 3.

Health Nut - I don't understand. You're still complaining of the small casing of this projector. But if I recall correctly, weren't you complaining about the small casing back early December when you were considering whether to order and buy this projector? If so, why did you buy it?

Were you able to mount a bit further back so that you'd have no issues with the ISCOIII as you had reported earlier (I hope so)?

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post #742 of 877 Old 01-30-2008, 01:06 PM
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1100 lumen would result in 18 ftl on my screen, which should be fine.
But considering light drop / bulb aging it could even be a little bit brighter...

Try one of these - dVision 30-1080p . AVS sells them too.


http://www.digitalprojection.com/ind...d=34&Itemid=61

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post #743 of 877 Old 01-30-2008, 01:09 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Art Sonneborn View Post

You could try the Runco three chips but they are bigger yet,with half the contrast of the HT5000 and cost twice as much.

Titan 250 has less light output than the HT5000.


What size screen are you looking to light up ?

Art

It doesn't have to be "super bright", my screen is 120" wide 16:9 screen research acoustic transparent white clear pix 2, which has a negative gain (I calculate 0.90)
Room is a bat cave, throw distance is about 250" (C3X1080 T2 lens would be fine).
Anamorphic setup is not an option (subtitles...) , screen is 4-way masked.
Original projector for this setup was a SIM HT500 Link which was bright enough for my taste (a close relative to your beast, Art :-) ), but lacked contrast.
I am currently using a RS1-Clone (DreamBee), which barely is bright enough if I change the bulb often... but even darker, I liked the picture more than the HT500.
The RS1 was never planned to stay for long, I always waited for the availability of a 1080p 3-chip DLP. As I said, the C3X1080 looked "perfect" for my purpose, it could be a little bit brighter, but it still would be a great improvement over the RS1, almost twice as bright.
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post #744 of 877 Old 01-30-2008, 01:11 PM
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Originally Posted by Craig Peer View Post

Try one of these - dVision 30-1080p . AVS sells them too.


http://www.digitalprojection.com/ind...d=34&Itemid=61

Thanks, but being "rainbow sensitive" single chip DLPs are not an option.
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post #745 of 877 Old 01-30-2008, 01:20 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wuffzack View Post

It doesn't have to be "super bright", my screen is 120" wide 16:9 screen research acoustic transparent white clear pix 2, which has a negative gain (I calculate 0.90)
Room is a bat cave, throw distance is about 250" (C3X1080 T2 lens would be fine).
Anamorphic setup is not an option (subtitles...) , screen is 4-way masked.
Original projector for this setup was a SIM HT500 Link which was bright enough for my taste (a close relative to your beast, Art :-) ), but lacked contrast.
I am currently using a RS1-Clone (DreamBee), which barely is bright enough if I change the bulb often... but even darker, I liked the picture more than the HT500.
The RS1 was never planned to stay for long, I always waited for the availability of a 1080p 3-chip DLP. As I said, the C3X1080 looked "perfect" for my purpose, it could be a little bit brighter, but it still would be a great improvement over the RS1, almost twice as bright.

If you are just managing with a new bulb RS1, then the C3X1080 is a massive jump in brightness, more than double the D65 lumens.

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post #746 of 877 Old 01-30-2008, 01:21 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Craig Peer View Post

Try one of these - dVision 30-1080p . AVS sells them too.


http://www.digitalprojection.com/ind...d=34&Itemid=61

Has anyone measured the light output at d65 for the dVision 30-1080p. Their website says 500-2500 ANSI lumens, user adjustable, but I wonder how much this is reduced when calibrated to d65. Can you use both lamps simultaneously, or just one at a time? And, are the lumen specs using one or both lamps?
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post #747 of 877 Old 01-30-2008, 01:27 PM
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Originally Posted by Citation4444 View Post

Has anyone measured the light output at d65 for the dVision 30-1080p. Their website says 500-2500 ANSI lumens, user adjustable, but I wonder how much this is reduced when calibrated to d65. Can you use both lamps simultaneously, or just one at a time? And, are the lumen specs using one or both lamps?

I believe you can use one or both. Users commonly burn one, then the other, then both when faded.

No idea of calibrated lumens.

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post #748 of 877 Old 01-30-2008, 01:39 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wuffzack View Post

It doesn't have to be "super bright", my screen is 120" wide 16:9 screen research acoustic transparent white clear pix 2, which has a negative gain (I calculate 0.90)
Room is a bat cave, throw distance is about 250" (C3X1080 T2 lens would be fine).
Anamorphic setup is not an option (subtitles...) , screen is 4-way masked.
Original projector for this setup was a SIM HT500 Link which was bright enough for my taste (a close relative to your beast, Art :-) ), but lacked contrast.
I am currently using a RS1-Clone (DreamBee), which barely is bright enough if I change the bulb often... but even darker, I liked the picture more than the HT500.
The RS1 was never planned to stay for long, I always waited for the availability of a 1080p 3-chip DLP. As I said, the C3X1080 looked "perfect" for my purpose, it could be a little bit brighter, but it still would be a great improvement over the RS1, almost twice as bright.

Just get a 1.3 screen surface if you need more from the C3X1080.
You can get the material swapped out

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post #749 of 877 Old 01-30-2008, 02:11 PM
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Quote:


Quote:


Originally Posted by Citation4444
Has anyone measured the light output at d65 for the dVision 30-1080p. Their website says 500-2500 ANSI lumens, user adjustable, but I wonder how much this is reduced when calibrated to d65. Can you use both lamps simultaneously, or just one at a time? And, are the lumen specs using one or both lamps?

I believe you can use one or both. Users commonly burn one, then the other, then both when faded.

No idea of calibrated lumens.

That's the way I've used mine so far. It had about 455 lumens with one bulb with the iris cranked down to minimum to begin with. At 457 hours I've got both bulbs running with the iris open a little. Plenty bright and decent contrast too.

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post #750 of 877 Old 01-30-2008, 03:16 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Craig Peer View Post

That's the way I've used mine so far. It had about 455 lumens with one bulb with the iris cranked down to minimum to begin with. At 457 hours I've got both bulbs running with the iris open a little. Plenty bright and decent contrast too.

I thought it would be brighter than that. 455 lumens is really low for a pj in this price range IMO. I can't understand why you would recommend this projector when wuffzack was questioning if the 1100 lumens of the C3X1080 would be enough?

Bob
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