The new C3X1080 review. - Page 8 - AVS Forum
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post #211 of 877 Old 12-01-2007, 12:12 PM
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Originally Posted by coldmachine View Post

I called in some favors and we will show the RS1, VW200, 15s1, HT380 or HT3000e and the C3X1080, all back to back then the HT5000 seperately... I hope it all works out. Will report back. Already seen some surprises.

I'd sure like to hear what those surprises were...

Mike
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post #212 of 877 Old 12-01-2007, 12:43 PM
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Ok, just so we are on the same page, one advantage of the T1 at 1.7 vs a T2 at 1.7 would be using the least amount of glass on the lens with the T1... I will have some vertical lens shift (It will be dead center of course in the horizontal plane). T1 should use the narrowest beam thru the lens at 1.7.... correct?
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post #213 of 877 Old 12-01-2007, 01:06 PM
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The T1 only goes to 1.66. Even if it does actually do 1.7, you are slammed against the end stop. I've repeated that before.........AVOID THE ENDS. 1.7

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post #214 of 877 Old 12-01-2007, 01:16 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by aag View Post

I have read the recent Audioholics column, which essentially states that 3DLP front projectors (which typically go for >30K) are a total ripoff, since that there's no factual reasons why they should be so expensive. What is the sentiment out there?[/i]

My sentiment is that if the author actually said that they know nothing about economics. There is no "factual reason" why anything costs what it does other than supply and demand. And the entire "if a LCD has 3 chips and can sell for xxx why can't a DLP ranks up there with "if a Ford Focus has 4 tires and sells for xxx why can't a Ferrari? I am admittedly over simplifying, in reverse.
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post #215 of 877 Old 12-01-2007, 01:19 PM
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There is a total disparity of all the lenses on the Sim2 site. The main page on the C3x1080 gives one set of specs and the "Technical Features" page give a totally different spec.

http://www.sim2usa.com/prodotto_.php...me_theater.htm
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post #216 of 877 Old 12-01-2007, 01:27 PM
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The front page is rounded off. T1 is the same on both T2 has changed on the "Technical features" to reflect the new 2.48 figure. There is still some ambiguity over what is what. The company know about the issue and assure it will be sorted. Its pissing me off big time, as Im getting so many pms.

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post #217 of 877 Old 12-01-2007, 01:32 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike N Ike View Post

I'd sure like to hear what those surprises were...

Mike

As would I
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post #218 of 877 Old 12-01-2007, 01:40 PM
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Originally Posted by Spizz View Post

As would I

We should be done next weekend. No real shockers ATM.

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post #219 of 877 Old 12-01-2007, 01:44 PM
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OT: Even though I know you favor the Sim2 brand I look forward to seeing what you think of the 15S1 (unless you have already seen it).
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post #220 of 877 Old 12-01-2007, 01:55 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Spizz View Post

OT: Even though I know you favor the Sim2 brand I look forward to seeing what you think of the 15S1 (unless you have already seen it).

I dont favor any brand at all. Just performance. I'll be moving next year and my new PJ may not be a Sim2. I had other brands prior to my current machines.

Ive seen the 15s1 and will report when we are finished, but the demo is to help a friend who wants to move from an RS1 to a better machine in a dedicated room, rather than an in depth test session.

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post #221 of 877 Old 12-01-2007, 02:50 PM
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Question for you guys who have seen the C3X1080 and have lots of experience: I'm upgrading from a HT300 to something new - undecided as to what. I've seen the 380 and it had a truly awesome, mesmerizing pic but it won't work for me (RBE). I'm considering the C3X1080 (BIG UPGRADE) due to 3 chip but am concerned about it being too bright. Please tell me your opinion given my room: 73" wide screen, 83" diag, 153" lens to screen, 2.1 throw, light controlled for DVDs, but mutli-use (ie may watch DTV with some lights on). If too bright (I know this is a taste question but informed opinions help) would an ND2 be fine? I've seen some statements on another forum that they reduce "pop" - I wouldn't want to unintentionally eliminate the benefits of the C3X1080. Thanks in advance. Also if you do recommend the ND what brand/model(s) would you recommend? Again, wouldn't want to blow the pq with a less than stellar filter.
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post #222 of 877 Old 12-01-2007, 03:15 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DCS1 View Post

Question for you guys who have seen the C3X1080 and have lots of experience: I'm upgrading from a HT300 to something new - undecided as to what. I've seen the 380 and it had a truly awesome, mesmerizing pic but it won't work for me (RBE). I'm considering the C3X1080 (BIG UPGRADE) due to 3 chip but am concerned about it being too bright. Please tell me your opinion given my room: 73" wide screen, 83" diag, 153" lens to screen, 2.1 throw, light controlled for DVDs, but mutli-use (ie may watch DTV with some lights on). If too bright (I know this is a taste question but informed opinions help) would an ND2 be fine? I've seen some statements on another forum that they reduce "pop" - I wouldn't want to unintentionally eliminate the benefits of the C3X1080. Thanks in advance. Also if you do recommend the ND what brand/model(s) would you recommend? Again, wouldn't want to blow the pq with a less than stellar filter.

Personal opinion...6ft is too small of a screen. In normal mode, depending on the lamp power selected you will get between 50 and 80 fL with a standard 1.3 gain screen. what is your seating distance? you may still get a great deal on a C3X lite if you are ok with a 720p machine. I know some people like them, but I've never seen an NDF that didn't degrade the picture.

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post #223 of 877 Old 12-01-2007, 03:20 PM
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I just measured my fL: I'm getting 35fL on a 132" wide 2.35:1 HP screen. Low power lamp, anamorphic lens in place.

Very comfortable. I won't be changing my screen like I had thought I would.
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post #224 of 877 Old 12-01-2007, 03:30 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ian_Currie View Post

I just measured my fL: I'm getting 35fL on a 132" wide 2.35:1 HP screen. Low power lamp, anamorphic lens in place.

Very comfortable. I won't be changing my screen like I had thought I would.

Nice 132" plasma but better !!!

Art


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post #225 of 877 Old 12-01-2007, 06:44 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by coldmachine View Post

Personal opinion...6ft is too small of a screen. In normal mode, depending on the lamp power selected you will get between 50 and 80 fL with a standard 1.3 gain screen. what is your seating distance? you may still get a great deal on a C3X lite if you are ok with a 720p machine. I know some people like them, but I've never seen an NDF that didn't degrade the picture.

Seating is about 11' from the screen, which is a Grayhawk - about 6 yrs old, not sure what the gain is. Looking for 1080p/24fps type projector; any others you'd suggest? I looked at the web site for Projection Design M25 (diff color wheel from 380 supposedly) but it didn't look like it would work with my throw.

My current HT300 does 720p, with no RBE - would the C3Xlite be that much different? I can say that the pq improvement from my 300 to the 380 was huge - I'm looking for something comparable.

Also -- can anyone point me somewhere that explains how to measure fL? Thanks in advance.
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post #226 of 877 Old 12-01-2007, 06:50 PM
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Ive seen the 15s1 and will report when we are finished, but the demo is to help a friend who wants to move from an RS1 to a better machine in a dedicated room, rather than an in depth test session.

Im looking forward to what you have to say, as well. Some interesting projectors you reviewed in that group.

I have Greg Rogers, and even Kris Deerings, reviews that I am looking forward too as well. I went ahead and broke down and got the 2 year subscription to WSR. They have got a great deal on their website and Stacy hooked me up with instant access to their WEBZINE and member pages yesterday. 8)

You hooked up in there yet, Spizz? Greg Rogers gets them a lot of business. 8)

My setup, still in progress:


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post #227 of 877 Old 12-01-2007, 07:12 PM
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CM, I am ready to buy a 96"/1.3 gain screen (this is as large as I can go do to room width restrictions) would it also be too small for the C3X at above 1.7 throw? And also how loud is the fan? Thanks?
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post #228 of 877 Old 12-01-2007, 07:35 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Highrez View Post

CM, I am ready to buy a 96"/1.3 gain screen (this is as large as I can go do to room width restrictions) would it also be too small for the C3X at above 1.7 throw? And also how loud is the fan? Thanks?

These three chip DLPs are really made to light up large screens and IMO are overkill for an eight foot screen. In that spot I'd consider a LCOS or SXRD unit, or even better a G90 CRT.

Art


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post #229 of 877 Old 12-01-2007, 09:33 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Art Sonneborn View Post

These three chip DLPs are really made to light up large screens and IMO are overkill for an eight foot screen. In that spot I'd consider a LCOS or SXRD unit, or even better a G90 CRT.

Art

Hmm..having spent the last few weeks watching a 3-chip DLP on a large screen I am tempted to agree with you...tempted, but I am not sure I do. All of the qualities that make it so beautiful will still be there in abundance. Razor sharpness, color to die for, bright etc. I do agree that it is ashame to use it in a screen so small, but I think the results would still be astounding.
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post #230 of 877 Old 12-01-2007, 10:34 PM
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I think that it is a shame that only those with huuuuuuge screens can get the benefits of a 3 chipper. I really had my heart set on getting the C3x but my room is only 12ft. wide.I really don't want the JVC or the Sony. Art we've talked, somebodies got to help me here.What about dimming down the bulb will that hurt the D65 color temps?Anyone I'm open for suggestions I gotta have it......I am getting ready to upgrade to the 8ft wide screen hoping that it would work with the C3x.
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post #231 of 877 Old 12-02-2007, 12:17 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Highrez View Post

I think that it is a shame that only those with huuuuuuge screens can get the benefits of a 3 chipper. I really had my heart set on getting the C3x but my room is only 12ft. wide.I really don't want the JVC or the Sony. Art we've talked, somebodies got to help me here.What about dimming down the bulb will that hurt the D65 color temps?Anyone I'm open for suggestions I gotta have it......I am getting ready to upgrade to the 8ft wide screen hoping that it would work with the C3x.

For your screen size you can go for a Screen Research screen with almost 1 gain and use an ND filter for the first 100 hours or so. The pop will be amazing with the 3DLP. I think after the first 100 hours or so when the bulb starts to stabilize you will get a very punchy image throughout the life of the bulb till the very end [75% of bulb life].

The 3DLP will also allow lights to be turned on to an extent.

If you've got your heart set on the excellent C3X then you should go for it IMO. You can adjust the remaining factors later on.

I don't know if your room will allow it but there is something really special about a screen as wide as the room. You get the feeling of being immersed into the movie with a seemingly wider peripheral vision. See if you can stretch the screen to a 10 feet size. An AT screen will also allow you to place the speakers behind the screen.

Good luck.
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post #232 of 877 Old 12-02-2007, 03:17 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Highrez View Post

CM, I am ready to buy a 96"/1.3 gain screen (this is as large as I can go do to room width restrictions) would it also be too small for the C3X at above 1.7 throw? And also how loud is the fan? Thanks?

My C3X screen is 8ft, unmasking to 10.5 and it works well when totally dimmed. It gives 28fL for 8ft 16:9 and looks amazing.

I will be increasing my screen size but not through necessity. The lamp dimming gives 800-1200 lumens. I believe Jason Turk is Getting 1300 but is still able to get down to 800, thats down into the same area as an HT380 (also perfect on a 8ft screen).As the lamp dims, you will be able to dial it back up in steps to maintain your image.

Having said all that I will be going to 12ft at 235 and will still achieve 25fL, initially. Big screens is where these machines are at.

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post #233 of 877 Old 12-02-2007, 03:41 AM
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In this current home, I could go from a 10' (2.35) to a 11.5' wide screen. This would cure my 1.7 issue as well, although admitedly all I need to do is mount the PJ forward a couple inches anyway... Hmmmm... $3,000.00 to move from 10' to 11.5' wide? not sure its worth it... I currently use a 1.3 gain studiotek CINE-W curved. I know many of you have been told not to use it but I've had both regular and curved and do not see a difference. The focus on both flat and curved seems 'perfect'... How can you get 'perfect' focus in both cases?

Any suggestions on curved vs flat? Adv and disadv?

Also, I do have to say, behind the scenes, there are a lot of advocates who feel firehawk is superior to studiotek in 99.99% of real life homes, even batcaves... unless you have something like Darin's in Seattle with Black Velvet floors, ceilings, walls, etc... more like a test chamber....

Essentially I' considering moving from a 10' wide Cine-w to an 11.5' wide (cine-w or flat deluxe snapper) with Firehawk material now that the Sim2 C3X 1080 is on the way. Thoughts?
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post #234 of 877 Old 12-02-2007, 04:15 AM
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WIth that much brightness, if you want a more believable absolute black I dont see where you can go wrong with the Firehawk, except for the sparklies/hotspotting. Supposedly the newer iterations of the Firehawk have addressed the sparklies from the G1 Firehawk that I had and a longer throw will negate issues regarding hotspotting, though 1.7 might not be a long enough throw for the Firehawk to completely negate hotspotting.

Personally, I love the Firehawk (never really having much issue with the sparklies on my G1 Firehawk) and even the Carada High Contrast Grey screen.

My setup, still in progress:


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post #235 of 877 Old 12-02-2007, 04:34 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Health Nut View Post

In this current home, I could go from a 10' (2.35) to a 11.5' wide screen. This would cure my 1.7 issue as well, although admitedly all I need to do is mount the PJ forward a couple inches anyway... Hmmmm... $3,000.00 to move from 10' to 11.5' wide? not sure its worth it... I currently use a 1.3 gain studiotek CINE-W curved. I know many of you have been told not to use it but I've had both regular and curved and do not see a difference. The focus on both flat and curved seems 'perfect'... How can you get 'perfect' focus in both cases?

Any suggestions on curved vs flat? Adv and disadv?

Also, I do have to say, behind the scenes, there are a lot of advocates who feel firehawk is superior to studiotek in 99.99% of real life homes, even batcaves... unless you have something like Darin's in Seattle with Black Velvet floors, ceilings, walls, etc... more like a test chamber....

Essentially I' considering moving from a 10' wide Cine-w to an 11.5' wide (cine-w or flat deluxe snapper) with Firehawk material now that the Sim2 C3X 1080 is on the way. Thoughts?

Mark out the screen size for 11.5 around your 10ft, not just the width. You'll be surprised. I cant stress enough with this machine...AVOID THE ENDS. If you need further info on that, pm me.

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post #236 of 877 Old 12-02-2007, 05:31 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Highrez View Post

I think that it is a shame that only those with huuuuuuge screens can get the benefits of a 3 chipper. I really had my heart set on getting the C3x but my room is only 12ft. wide.I really don't want the JVC or the Sony. Art we've talked, somebodies got to help me here.What about dimming down the bulb will that hurt the D65 color temps?Anyone I'm open for suggestions I gotta have it......I am getting ready to upgrade to the 8ft wide screen hoping that it would work with the C3x.

I will be using a 3 chip DLP on a 67” wide screen and in addition to turning down the lamp power, there are two very effective ways to lower light output without compromising performance, as you do with an ND filter. The first is to use a gray screen without the gain coating. This can have a gain of about 0.4 and Stewart can supply it. This will perform like a unity gain white screen and have good ambient rejection because of the low gain. The second is to defocus the lamp. Whether this is possible depends on the specific model. This has a large effect on light output and usually increases the uniformity. Another factor that’s not mentioned often enough is lamp aging. Excessive light output tends to go away.

I am very familiar with 3 chip DLP and have used it in another room for about 6 years now. The room with the 67” wide screen has a G90 and the best 3 chip DLPs will be significantly better overall, even without the light output advantage that’s not needed. I don’t know yet what I will use a replacement for the G90, but it will be 3 chip DLP.
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post #237 of 877 Old 12-02-2007, 06:26 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by QQQ View Post

Hmm..having spent the last few weeks watching a 3-chip DLP on a large screen I am tempted to agree with you...tempted, but I am not sure I do. All of the qualities that make it so beautiful will still be there in abundance. Razor sharpness, color to die for, bright etc. I do agree that it is ashame to use it in a screen so small, but I think the results would still be astounding.

Well I love three chip DLP ,no doubt. Like you said the characteristics of it's image are very very seductive. I just wonder based on their price if it is the best direction to go on that screen size when with some of the other devices you could swap three to five generations of projectors for the same investment.

I know, in my case, I purposely set myself up with a goal that made my projector choices more limited. I didn't want to have any reason to have to second guess myself. Of course, it's only been a few months and Dark City moved off my demo list, but I think that the picture is pretty tough to beat overall.

Art


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post #238 of 877 Old 12-02-2007, 07:12 AM
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I think if you can achieve a sensible fL figure, by dimming etc, viewing angle is a good way to think.

Having said that, 1.2 sw from a 6ft screen will give the same viewing angle as 1.2 from a 14ft screen, but, my god is it a different experience.

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post #239 of 877 Old 12-02-2007, 07:53 AM
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Thanks for the input all, I'm going to go for it (what do I have to lose?). I received some good news concerning others with screens at the size that I am going to upgrade to that have C3x projectors (thanks you know who you are!).Yes there is a mezmerizing effect when the screen is as wide as the room (ask Art ;-) ).I saw at a Cedia event a few years back 3yrs ago the T.I. demo with the secret DLP projector and I have not been able to shake that image from my brain since.So I know that if I can get somewhere near that in my scaled down situation with a C3x projector that it will cure me, Thanks all.
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post #240 of 877 Old 12-02-2007, 08:19 AM
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Is there any disadvantage going to a 1.0 gain (Snomatte) rather than a 1.3 gain screen(Studiotek) for 9'W or less screens?
Tony Costanza is offline  
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