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post #91 of 260 Old 01-02-2008, 03:18 PM
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http://www.curtpalme.com/forum/viewt...r=asc&&start=0

go down to the first post by Achase. he is the owner

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Born October 26 2005.

Ob was the delivery doc.

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post #92 of 260 Old 01-02-2008, 03:45 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dizzman View Post

http://www.curtpalme.com/forum/viewt...r=asc&&start=0

go down to the first post by Achase. he is the owner

I am looking but not finding any diagrams.

Can you post the exact link?

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post #93 of 260 Old 01-02-2008, 04:38 PM
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Jeremy, the individual messages at Curt's are hard to link, so here's the quote:

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Posted: Mon Sep 03, 2007 3:50 am Post subject:

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

garyfritz wrote:
Tom.W wrote:
Just got a PM from Arnold . He is using a Hughes-JVC 12K ILA projector modified by Leo Bassett with a 28 foot screen !

Let's see, if we assume he's got the ultimate anamorphic lens so he can use the full 4:3 panel area, then he can use the full 12000 lumens. 28' wide would be 441'^2 for a 16:9 screen. 12000 lumens / 441'^2 = 27 ft Lamberts! Yowza. Even if he didn't use any kind of anamorph, and for 2.35:1 he only used 57% of the panel & thus 57% of the lumens, he'd still be throwing 0.57 * 12000 / 333'^2 = 20.5 ftL. Should be enough even for a 103 seat theater!


Hi Guys,

Your lumen calculations are based on the original 12K model and not the last of the special cinema units. The last units used special ILA panels that were native 16 x 9, had faster response times, superior colorimetry, and much higher contrast ratios. Also important to factor in your calculations is the use of the upcoming HQV line quintuplers. They will take the native 24p H-Def player outputs and convert it to 120P. In doing this the on-screen brightness is increased about 30% over the usual level. The autoranging ability is one of the main reasons I went with the older technology.
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post #94 of 260 Old 01-02-2008, 04:42 PM
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Seems you found the message, but still aren't clear on the design goal;-).
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post #95 of 260 Old 01-02-2008, 05:14 PM
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Design goal... REALLY FREAKIN AWESOME CINEMA THAT WILL BLOW ANYBODY OUT OF THE WATER EXCEPT MAYBE THE PANTAGES FAMILY!!!!

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Born October 26 2005.

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post #96 of 260 Old 01-02-2008, 05:21 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by donaldk View Post

Seems you found the message, but still aren't clear on the design goal;-).

Several design points could be addressed to improve both picture and sound fidelity:

The projector has a native resolution of 2000x1280, which is a 1.67 aspect ratio screen, not 4:3. Therefore a different type of anamorphic lens specific to this projector would have to be used, and upping the frame rate five times is only necessary for an ILA projector - modern digital projectors, as you know, refresh anywhere from between 96 and 240 Hz, depending on technology, negating this type of scaling.

This projector was first used by Lucasfilm to demonstrate Star Wars: EP1 digitally for the first time in 1999. Considerable improvements have been made in projection technology that result in far great image fidelity with respect to film. Also, several different technologies might be featured to take advantage of each's strengths, allowing for DCI prints to be screened exactly or better than in the best commercial theaters in the world, and even in 3D!

With such an ambitious space being designed and built from the ground up for 103 seats, shouldn't the concrete frame work be larger, allowing for a room within a room construction that would offer vastly superior sound quality before requiring what I imagine will be a considerable amount of acoustic damping and diffusion to dial out the concrete shoebox shape?

Light output in the mid 20 foot-lamberts is very very acceptable, but could be even higher, allowing for the possibility of a sharper and more realistic image or for an increased contrast ratio in access of this models current capabiity, which I know Cineramax would deeply agree with.

I'm still hoping to see a floor plan of the entire installation. That would answer many other design and application questions I have.

I hasten to add that this 3 - CRT driven ILA projector requires almost constant recalibration to stay perfectly linear with respect to color temperature, grayscale, focus, and convergence!

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post #97 of 260 Old 01-02-2008, 06:06 PM
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The Biggus Dickus of all plasma is to be shown at ces.

Wow 150" diagonal.



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post #98 of 260 Old 01-02-2008, 06:13 PM
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Originally Posted by CINERAMAX View Post

The Biggus Dickus of all plasma is to be shown at ces.

Throw him to the floor again, sir?

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post #99 of 260 Old 01-02-2008, 06:24 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CINERAMAX View Post

The Biggus Dickus of all plasma is to be shown at ces.

Wow 150" diagonal.




Cute Photoshopping!

Wrong aspect ratio for the top plasma!!!

And what is the weight of this hulking mass?

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post #100 of 260 Old 01-02-2008, 07:15 PM
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We will know more when CES is here. I Imagine it could be 650-750 pounds.
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post #101 of 260 Old 01-02-2008, 07:21 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CINERAMAX View Post

We will know more when CES is here. I Imagine it could be 650-750 pounds.

Oh well, can't hang that over the Master Bedroom fireplace...

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post #102 of 260 Old 01-02-2008, 07:33 PM
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ILA machines do not have a native resolution. the image was formed by a high res CRT and the light amplification via an amorphous LCD. D-ILA's, they had the native res.

I will also argue the constant care and feeding point. with the later generations, once you had it stable and gave it stable voltage (line conditioner very useful here) they sang. are they as stable as a pure Digital machine? no. but at 12K lumens, and a beautiful image at those 12K, they were awesome.

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post #103 of 260 Old 01-02-2008, 07:33 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by QueueCumber View Post

Oh well, can't hang that over the Master Bedroom fireplace...

Or over the Master Bed!

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post #104 of 260 Old 01-02-2008, 07:38 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dizzman View Post

ILA machines do not have a native resolution. the image was formed by a high res CRT and the light amplification via an amorphous LCD. D-ILA's, they had the native res.

I will also argue the constant care and feeding point. with the later generations, once you had it stable and gave it stable voltage (line conditioner very useful here) they sang. are they as stable as a pure Digital machine? no. but at 12K lumens, and a beautiful image at those 12K, they were awesome.

Were - is the key term. I have calibrated several of these ILA projectors, and they can shine in their own way, but they do have a perceivable look to them. And at $250k, not an equal of the many fine digital projectors with as much and more light output, and considerably more resolution and color accuracy.

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post #105 of 260 Old 01-02-2008, 07:39 PM
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Originally Posted by DefinerOfReality View Post

Or over the Master Bed!

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I wonder if they have a special clause for that on a life insurance policy.

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post #106 of 260 Old 01-08-2008, 12:48 PM
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Hi Guys,
I don't play in this league, but I do like to read this section. I remembered a member here who had his HT featured in AVI Magazine a few years ago. I dug out my old copies and found it (September, 2003 issue). His name is Steve Jenkins (stevejenkins is his AVS name) and his site is part of his AVS signature, so I guess he won't mind me posting it: http://theater.stevejenkins.com/

jeff

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post #107 of 260 Old 01-09-2008, 04:27 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DefinerOfReality View Post

And at $250k, not an equal of the many fine digital projectors with as much and more light output, and considerably more resolution and color accuracy.

I may be wrong but I believe the product has been out of production for many years now. I suspect/hope they are not paying anywhere close to 250K for it. Regardless, I agree it is a BIZARRE choice, to say the least.

I am not familiar with the speaker system, and probably should not judge a company by their website, but it looks like something done by a 12 year old with Front Page, with all the hyperbole of a late night infomercial ("The HPS-4000® sound systems are four to eight times as powerful as any other system one is likely to encounter in a motion picture theatre.")

http://www.hps4000.com/pages/firsts_.html
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post #108 of 260 Old 01-09-2008, 08:57 AM
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I will say in defense that the 300 series to my eyes are still fantastic when setup properly and given plenty of TLC. and since (as was pointed out in the thread at curts place) they can be had for pennies on the dollar, then it is an experiment that will yield a fantastic image for much less than a current equivalent proj.

And HPS is a sound company that does only one type of work. and that is not web design. i would guess that they did the page 8 years ago and have not touched it since then. Kind of reminds me of the web page for this high end HT company in Chicago i saw once.

Proud Daddy to Anastasia and Christopher.
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post #109 of 260 Old 01-09-2008, 10:17 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dizzman View Post

I will say in defense that the 300 series to my eyes are still fantastic when setup properly and given plenty of TLC. and since (as was pointed out in the thread at curts place) they can be had for pennies on the dollar, then it is an experiment that will yield a fantastic image for much less than a current equivalent proj.

And HPS is a sound company that does only one type of work. and that is not web design. i would guess that they did the page 8 years ago and have not touched it since then. Kind of reminds me of the web page for this high end HT company in Chicago i saw once.

Which place in Chicago was that?


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post #110 of 260 Old 01-09-2008, 10:21 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by QueueCumber View Post

Oh well, can't hang that over the Master Bedroom fireplace...

It will BE the master bedroom fireplace. Roll 'Yule Log' DVD...

www.curtpalme.com - CRT tech info

www.soundsolutionscanada.com -pro audio website
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post #111 of 260 Old 01-09-2008, 10:27 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Curt Palme View Post

It will BE the master bedroom fireplace. Roll 'Yule Log' DVD...

Curt -

What experience do you have with the Hughes 300 series projectors, such as the one Arnold is modifying for his 103 seat theater?

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post #112 of 260 Old 01-09-2008, 11:37 AM
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I am very familiar with the Hughes JVC ILA and a custom digital cinema version was my projector for about three years. This unit may have been the highest performance example built. Leo is probably using some components from my old projector for this project. A digital cinema DLP would be a better choice for many reasons. I am sure that the price for the ILA unit is relatively low, but this does not seem like a low budget installation.
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post #113 of 260 Old 01-09-2008, 12:18 PM
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I may be wrong but I believe the product has been out of production for many years now. I suspect/hope they are not paying anywhere close to 250K for it.

On the other forum he talked about the PJ being available for "pennies on the dollar" relative to the original cost.
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post #114 of 260 Old 01-09-2008, 02:22 PM
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This is not a new unit. It's being built by Leo Bassett, one of the best former Hughes JVC technicians. Leo is very good and has many parts to choose from. The performance of these projectors is highly dependent on the quality of the ILAs, polarizing prisms, and CRTs. Hughes JVC built a few units from hand picked parts that had very good performance for the time. The basic projector concept had many faults, but they developed one ingenious fix after another to patch it up. But that was years ago and the performance of the best current DLP designs is much better.
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post #115 of 260 Old 01-10-2008, 09:31 AM
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Ok,

I am just an rookie when it comes to these big HT systems, but I have been a user of a Hughes JVC 360 (the 'crappiest') quality unit JVC ever made for about 3 years now in my home.

I paid $1000.00 for it on ebay used. It came from the "House of Blues" at their Mertel Beach location.

When I was doing my research on this unit, a few things get my attention.

* Full 1920x1080p capable.

Three years ago, finding any projector that could do this was a tuff battle, and was going to cost major bucks.

* 6000 lumens.

What?!! I knew I could get CRT projectors that would do the full HD spec, but no CRT projector was going to do much better then maybe 1000 lumens.

So, Full 1080p at 6000 lumens for only $1000.00----What's the catch?

Well, turns out there are alot of catches.

- parts are hard to find.
- it weighs nearly 500 pound.
- it eats power like crazy
- major major major major pain in the butt to set it up and calibrate it.

During mr research, I came across Leo Bassett's web site. I made contact with him, and asked him via voice mail message "How much for a replacement bulb for a JVC 360?".

He called me back and asked me a lot of questions about why I would have such a unit, and I explained that I did not have one yet, but was thinking about getting one off ebay.

He laughed at me, said forget it dude, these things take a lot specialized training to work on, they are dangerous, and you as an rookie would not stand a chance of getting this to work in a home.

I got a little miffed and said "How much for the bulb!".

He said look, if you buy it, screw with it for a while, get pissed off at it, and when you have had enough, call me back and I will buy the power supply from you for what you got into it so you wont be out anything. If you actually get it working, I will sell you a bulb cheep when and if you ever need one.

With his help over the phone I was able to troubleshoot some broken parts, and he sent them too me. After about 1 year, I had a decent picture coming out of the unit.

He actually fly into my city and spent a weekend with me in my home, and took it to the next level, and I have been happy ever since.

I have been to the "Football Hall of Fame" in SouthBend, and I also seen the new digital theater that they just put in at the University of Notre Dame, and while both are large venue setups and impressive, they don't look as good as my system in my house.

To be fair, Leo did upgrade my valves to "EC" type, and Im only running on an 8 foot screen with the bulb current dropped to about 1/3rd power, still that is pushing about 36 FtLamberts as measured in full 1080p.

My point to all this is, don't dismiss Analog CRT projection just cuz its old.

Take a visit to my website and look at the 7-megapixel photos of screen shots. My screen is a piece of paneling painted white! For 1080p shots, look at the "under Construction" first link.

http://bbs.flagnet.org

For the whole story check out AVS links...

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=695091

and the original post is at :

http://archive2.avsforum.com/avs-vb/...d.php?t=560000
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post #116 of 260 Old 01-10-2008, 12:43 PM
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In an effort to keep this post on topic, let me add this too...

Guess part of the debate should be is CRT still viable in the running for best HT system? I say yes it is.
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post #117 of 260 Old 01-10-2008, 04:31 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Curt Palme View Post

It will BE the master bedroom fireplace. Roll 'Yule Log' DVD...

It probably puts out more heat than the average fireplace as well

3000 W --> over 10,000 BTU/hr!

Some great theaters in this thread. I think we need screen shots from the nominated theaters.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
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Paradigm Studio 60v3, Studio 570v3, Studio 20v5, 2x Klipsch Sub12, Onkyo TX-NR808, PS3, Chromecast+Plex, Acer H6510BD
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post #118 of 260 Old 01-10-2008, 05:38 PM
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So is Arnold making the right choice?
Definerofreality and Odyssey I ask you one question. Is the finest analog projector surpassed by the best Digital projector? I have been involved in the Industry for over 20 year. I remember the first Electrohome 58xl Monochrome projector and have been waist deep in the latest Christie Digital Cinema projectors.
With all that said I believe the ILA12K can hold its own against the finest Digital Projector.

Contrast: The key ingredient for that depth that gives you that film like Appearance. Odyssey would you agree that your old 300ec machine has a better Contrast then your new Digital Machine? By the way,Hope all is well always enjoy talking with you.

Resolution: Both digital and analog can surpass current 1080P spec.

Light output: Arnold needs lots of it.
With the 12K (50% eff.) on a 28 foot wide screen (Cinema perf) you will need serious horse power.
Were talking 7000 watt of pure Xenon arc lamp.
With Digital DLP (96% eff.) a 4K will do just fine.

Color depth: both digital and 12K are way outside triangle.
Convergence: Analog wins on that the digital projector always seem to be that one pixel off some ware

With all that said. It comes down to a basic feel of anologe vs. digital.
They look different. One more film like, one more sharp and edgy.
Trust me Arnold is not putting in a 12K because he hasn't seen what the latest Digital cinema can do, he's installing a 12K because he has seen what it can do.

The down side to the 12K is yes, it will take days to get setup and yearly calibration, But they are work horses and never die. These projectors are brick houses.
The 12K is the High-water mark for Analog Projection and I think that say a lot.

Best Regards
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post #119 of 260 Old 01-10-2008, 06:47 PM
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When you say Arnold do you mean ARNOLD
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post #120 of 260 Old 01-10-2008, 07:31 PM
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Contrast: The key ingredient for that depth that gives you that film like Appearance. Odyssey would you agree that your old 300ec machine has a better Contrast then your new Digital Machine? By the way,Hope all is well always enjoy talking with you.

The Hughes JVC 340SC with digital cinema mods that I owned had on/off CR of about 2000:1 and ANSI CR of about 300:1. The Barco DP100 optimized for CR is at 2800:1 on/off and above 500:1 ANSI CR. I have not measured the ANSI CR and it could be as high as 700:1.
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