Revel Ultima Salon2 review in TAS - Page 2 - AVS Forum
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post #31 of 36 Old 01-01-2008, 03:47 AM
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Originally Posted by QQQ View Post

Meaning that audiophiles love to use questionable descriptive terms. What exactly is graininess? What causes graininess?

Ever seen a video with graininess, like perhaps the Blu-Ray Stargate scenes that were filmed inside structures? It is like that but with sound. Not something added, like with distortion, or something skewed/smeared like with muffling, but detail missing. At least that is my interpretation....

In the case above, you likely wouldn't even notice the missing detail unless comparing it to something more transparent sounding. Other things could contribute to the lack of detail as well, making my observations imperfect since I never put a pair in my listening room space for a more spot on observation (such as extreme amounts of wall reflection interference). That is why I state it as IME and IMO.

I agree about the confusion concerning terminology. I am confused about a lot of it also, so I apologize if I used any terminology incorrectly.

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post #32 of 36 Old 01-01-2008, 07:43 AM
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And to think that I started all of this with a joke about Jerry!! A point was made about the importance of room accoustics and I couldn't agree more. Most people do not fully appreciate how much of an impact that this can make. In the few places that I have lived over the last 25 years of being an audiophile, I have had to deal with all kinds of crappy rooms. I have done spectrum analysis of all these different environments and the affect that room accoustics has on the sound by the time it gets to your typical listening position can completely and totally overwhelm a flat measuring speaker!! Your almost better off not measuring because it can be depressing to think that you've speant all this money on a high end system only to have an effective room response curve that looks like a relief map of the Rocky Mountains!! I have heard Revel speakers and think they are pretty good. I actually liked the model below the Salons better than the Salons(notwithstanding the base response). The Wilson Watt Puppies have been great speakers over the years. You have to admire Dave Wilson for always attempting to tweek his product better. The cabinets are great and do a great job of minimizing any vibrations from interfering with driver performance. Few companies do it better. For example, JM Labs makes great drivers and beautifull cabinets but put very little thought into vibration control, even in the Utopia line. I had a pair of Mini Utopias and the cabinets looked great but vibrated like hell. Same is true of their larger speakers. I was thinking of buying a pair of Wilson Maxx2's. They have the best bass that I ever heard out of a speaker but the treble region was very hard and caused ear fatigue after a hour of listening. I wondered why because I have always loved the sound of Focal Utopia tweeters, having owned Watt3 Puppies with updated tweeters. Seems that Wilson crosses over to the tweeter at 1200hz on that speaker. Seems insanely low to me without using a digital crossover with extremely steep slopes. I suspect that is why they sound so fast and detailed but hard. I would cross the tweeter over at a higher point. Anyway, there are many great speakers out there. I used to own Wilson speakers but don't right now(I have a custom made system that uses a DEQX crossover/preamp that I am still attempting to adjust properly; their manual is a tough read!). I think the people who put down Wilson generally can't afford them and are just pissed off that they cost so much. But if you look at what he does to optimize all those different parameters that make the difference between a good speaker and a great speaker(cabinet design, crossovers, drivers, size and weight and resulting shipping and crating cost, etc.), their markups are probably not crazy. All that detailed sound you get from a Wilson speaker comes from all that attention to detail which at the margin doesn't come cheap. The law of marginal returns. Thanks. Ned.
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post #33 of 36 Old 01-01-2008, 08:12 AM
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Originally Posted by Ngerstman View Post

The cabinets are great and do a great job of minimizing any vibrations from interfering with driver performance.

I really noticed what kind of difference their cabinet construction made at HE2007. Despite being in a room with no treatments (Lamm room), they had minimal room interaction. Compared to the Magico Mini, which also had no room treatments but is a monitor speaker, the W/P8s were still more coherent. Another speaker that defied the room it was in was the iso-linear Scaena, pretty impressive for its large size in such a tiny room.

I've read about the new cabinet work on the Salon2 and it sounds promising. It seems similar to the kind of bending used on the 802D's MDF.

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They have the best bass that I ever heard out of a speaker but the treble region was very hard and caused ear fatigue after a hour of listening.

I don't get those problems with the W/P8, but my room is very well treated acoustically.




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post #34 of 36 Old 01-01-2008, 08:33 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by QueueCumber View Post

I really noticed what kind of difference their cabinet construction made at HE2007. Despite being in a room with no treatments (Lamm room), they had minimal room interaction. Compared to the Magico Mini, which also had no room treatments but is a monitor speaker, the W/P8s were still more coherent. Another speaker that defied the room it was in was the iso-linear Scaena, pretty impressive for its large size in such a tiny room.

I've read about the new cabinet work on the Salon2 and it sounds promising. It seems similar to the kind of bending used on the 802D's MDF.



I don't get those problems with the W/P8, but my room is very well treated acoustically.




I believe that the WP8 is crossed over at a more typical point for the tweeter. On the Maxx2's, they use heavily damped cone material for the midrange drivers. I suspect that they don't go up very high and put out a lot of lower midrange energy. I did love the sound of the Maxx2 initially but after an hour my ears where soar. It could have been due to the fact that I listened to them at volumes higher than normal because they were so clean sounding. Thanks and happy new year. Ned.
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post #35 of 36 Old 01-05-2008, 09:37 PM
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i always found the old studios/salons stale sounding. wilson have better dynamics and image better. i am curious if the 2s sound similar.

the other problem with the old version was they basically require ss amps....wilsons are far more flexible on amp selection.
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post #36 of 36 Old 12-18-2011, 08:11 AM
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I own Revel Salon 2 and they beat Dynaudio Evidence Tempation, Kharma Grand Midis, MBL 111E easily as I owned these speakers as well. Further, I directly compared it toa YG Acoustics Anat Ref IIs my friend has(around $150K and they claim best speakers in the world?) and my friend shitted in his pants. My speaker had smoother highs, better integration top to bottom with prodigious bass that was equal if not better than his mega buck self powered bass. There berylium tweeters are so smooth, extended and detailed, it has no problem replicating the highest notes and its harmonics with most demanding transients with ease. I used to get fatigue listening to other speakers I owned because of high frequency grit but I can comfortably listen and enjoy music for hours with these speakers. Salon 2 is a giant killer and by far the best value for high end speakers out there period. I've listened to Wilson Alexandria 2s at LA Audio and though it sounded good until they brought in other speakers to compare it to and you realize it sounded lifeless. So, unless you do A-B comparison on any these speakers or if you own the speakers in the same living space for quite sometime and you know the sound, subjective listening based on memory or in other room auditions and comments are absolutely meaningless.
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