Am I the only one who doesn't like Ascend Acoustic's Sierra-1's??? - Page 7 - AVS Forum
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post #181 of 450 Old 03-03-2008, 08:07 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by Dennis Murphy View Post

I haven't brought this up because I didn't think I had enough experience with B&W bookshelf speakers. The only one I heard was the 602 series 2, which is one back from yours. It was painful--recessed midrange and grating highs, due in part to a way-too-high crossover point for the big Kevlar woofer. And the tweeter was running hot. Yesterday, a professional studio mixer dude brought over a pair of Matrix 805's--the originals, not the current Sig that retailed new for about $3,000, I believe. Gorgeous cabinet, everything built like a tank. But, as he had complained, the mids were recessed and the highs between about 4K and 7K were peaked up. (That may be a breakup mode from the Kevlar woofer--I'll have to measure the drivers individually.) I realize you have the Series 3 602, and B&W may have improved them, but maybe you've just become accustomed to that kind of sound.

I don't understand all that much about speakers, but I have read a lot about breakup and that is what I think I'm hearing in the B&W's with certain material. It makes sense to me.

Also, only from what I've read, the 602 series 3 was a BIG step up from the series 2.
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post #182 of 450 Old 03-03-2008, 10:09 AM
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Originally Posted by TJHUB View Post

I've always been my own man and will continue to do so.

We'll see. Let us know if they shipped back. I've already heard enough that I'm convinced which of the two you prefer. Heck, you don't even have to click on the thread to know that as your thread title seems crystal clear to me.
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post #183 of 450 Old 03-03-2008, 10:14 AM
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Originally Posted by TJHUB View Post

Seriously guys, stop with the room. It makes a difference, yes. Is it a problem for me? No, I don't think so. I've done a lot with them over the weekend with little change in how they sound. I want to clearly state that the difference in sound between my B&W's and the Sierra's is FAR MORE than tweaks and room performance.

The room is not making the difference between the Sierras and the B&Ws, but it may be the main difference between how you hear the Sierras and how other people hear the Sierras. The room can cancel out some frequencies and/or overemphasize others, thus causing you not to hear certain things.
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post #184 of 450 Old 03-03-2008, 10:17 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by Azanon View Post

We'll see. Let us know if they shipped back. I've already heard enough that I'm convinced which of the two you prefer. Heck, you don't even have to click on the thread to know that as your thread title seems crystal clear to me.

You may end up both surprised and disappointed...
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post #185 of 450 Old 03-03-2008, 10:21 AM
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OMG! Dennis Murphy said that some B&W speakers have recessed mids and grating highs. He must be an Ascend Fanboy!!! He probably hasn't heard any other speakers than some crappy HTIB!!!!
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post #186 of 450 Old 03-03-2008, 10:28 AM
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Originally Posted by xcjago View Post

OMG! Dennis Murphy said that some B&W speakers have recessed mids and grating highs. He must be an Ascend Fanboy!!! He probably hasn't heard any other speakers than some crappy HTIB!!!!

Uh--1801B? I thought the A's had a recessed midrange and grating highs.
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post #187 of 450 Old 03-03-2008, 10:33 AM
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Huh? I was joking. What is 1801B?
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post #188 of 450 Old 03-03-2008, 10:53 AM
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Dennis, will you be posting your results after you do your measurements?

"I've found that when you want to know the truth about someone that someone is probably the last person you should ask." - Gregory House
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post #189 of 450 Old 03-03-2008, 11:07 AM
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Originally Posted by xcjago View Post

Huh? I was joking. What is 1801B?

I can't tell if you are joking about the 1801B. So it is the Ellis 1801B speaker that he, Dennis Murphy, designed the crossover for. I believe the rest of the design is Dave Ellis' creation.
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post #190 of 450 Old 03-03-2008, 11:46 AM
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Originally Posted by Ascend View Post


What you are getting with the Sierra-1 is a speaker that is delivering a more accurate representation of your source material, while your 602 is providing a response with a bit more “flavor”. For many listeners, that added “flavor” is something to avoid at all costs, for others it is preferred.

Very well said!

P.S. I was pleasantly surprised with your Sierra-1's. Dave, you've got a good product on your hands (I just reommended them to a family friend)!

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post #191 of 450 Old 03-03-2008, 11:57 AM
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TJHUB -

I used to love bright speakers, as I thought that they were just more detailed than others. But as I really got entwined in this hobby, I quickly realized I was not hearing what I was intended to. The instruments didn't sound the same as the did live, which quickly became my only reference. Now I crave neutrality and feel I am pretty good at hearing distortion, cone resonance and other artifacts that shouldn't be heard (whether inentional or not...), especially when comparing to a live show.

It may take some time, but you'll eventaully find a reference for the sound that you prefer; then it'll be easier to find that "one" speaker.

P.S. As you probably already know, I actually like the Sierra's.

Double P.S. I agree with Chu Gai; the room is probably playing a large factor in what you are hearing. Can you give us some more photos of the listening environment?

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post #192 of 450 Old 03-03-2008, 11:59 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TJHUB View Post


Seriously guys, stop with the room. It makes a difference, yes. Is it a problem for me? No, I don't think so. I've done a lot with them over the weekend with little change in how they sound. I want to clearly state that the difference in sound between my B&W's and the Sierra's is FAR MORE than tweaks and room performance.

We will never stop with the "room" comments. Why? Because it can effect the sound quality as much as your choice of speaker. This is not a joke and, if you strive for good sound, should be taken very seriously.

The best speakers in the world will sound like garbage in an acoutically poor room.

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post #193 of 450 Old 03-03-2008, 11:59 AM
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Originally Posted by TJHUB View Post

You may end up both surprised and disappointed...

Are we on our way on becoming brainwashed and keeping the speakers?
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post #194 of 450 Old 03-03-2008, 12:00 PM
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Originally Posted by xcjago View Post

Huh? I was joking. What is 1801B?

Looks like you need to brush up on your info and you need to learn who is who in this buisness.
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post #195 of 450 Old 03-03-2008, 12:05 PM
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Originally Posted by Nuance View Post

We will never stop with the "room" comments. Why? Because it can effect the sound quality as much as your choice of speaker. This is not a joke and, if you strive for good sound, should be taken very seriously.

The best speakers in the world will sound like garbage in an acoutically poor room.

Not as much as people make it to be,a speaker thats subpar will be subpar in a good room or a bad room.
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post #196 of 450 Old 03-03-2008, 12:09 PM
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Originally Posted by xcjago View Post

Huh? I was joking. What is 1801B?

David Ellis's speakers is the 1801B which i think is a 2 way floorstander version of the 1801A standmount speaker,which Dennis done the crossovers for or it could be the other way around or a newer model of the standmounted speaker.
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post #197 of 450 Old 03-03-2008, 12:14 PM
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Originally Posted by Tawaun da bomb View Post

Looks like you need to brush up on your info and you need to learn who is who in this buisness.

Oh excuse me Mr. Bomb. Gee, maybe you can teach me about speakers cuz I am such a n00b! I already knew that he was in the business. Salk Song Towers. That's why I was joking about him. It's called sarcasm.
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post #198 of 450 Old 03-03-2008, 12:15 PM
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Originally Posted by Tawaun da bomb View Post

Not as much as people make it to be,a speaker thats subpar will be subpar in a good room or a bad room.

But a good speaker can sound subpar in a bad room.
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post #199 of 450 Old 03-03-2008, 12:17 PM
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Originally Posted by TJHUB View Post

You may end up both surprised and disappointed...

Dont think you are wrong about what you hear regardless what all the naysayers are saying your ears are your ears,if you dont like them send them back,there are many good speakers in this pricerange,you have 1 person to please other than your spouse,and thats you,just worry about that and you will be fine.I had the 602 S3 about 5 years ago,their pretty good,1 thing that they do very well is piano's so your ears are not lying to you,just keep your options open and audition more speakers its all fun good luck!
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post #200 of 450 Old 03-03-2008, 12:19 PM
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Originally Posted by xcjago View Post

But a good speaker can sound subpar in a bad room.

Yeah thats true,but a good speaker in good room is better than a bad speaker in a good room anyday their are to many speakers to choose from,so there's no need to settle for something you dont like.
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post #201 of 450 Old 03-03-2008, 12:20 PM
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Originally Posted by xcjago View Post

Oh excuse me Mr. Bomb. Gee, maybe you can teach me about speakers cuz I am such a n00b! I already knew that he was in the business. Salk Song Towers. That's why I was joking about him. It's called sarcasm.

Gotcha you.
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post #202 of 450 Old 03-03-2008, 12:32 PM
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Originally Posted by Azanon View Post

We'll see. Let us know if they shipped back. I've already heard enough that I'm convinced which of the two you prefer. Heck, you don't even have to click on the thread to know that as your thread title seems crystal clear to me.

Let me surprise you first; I'm an Ascend owner and I absolutely love them. Granted, I don't have Sierra's, but I understand they follow essentially the same philosophy as Ascend's other speakers which is to produce a neutral sound.

Personally, I care more about hearing an accurate sound than necessarily the most pleasant sounding one. If those two things just so happen to also come hand-in-hand, then so be it but forced to choose, I want an accurate speaker. Because I'm a novice with music, musical instruments, etc, and because I like learning about how the various instruments really sound (think classical), I want a speaker that is going to most closely match what I would hear if I were to be hearing an instrument played live. So, I understand to get that, I want a so-called "neutral" speaker.

"Colored" sound might indeed me more pleasing to you, and maybe even to me, but it's just not what's on my personal top of my list of priorities for "my" speaker.
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post #203 of 450 Old 03-03-2008, 12:33 PM
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Gotcha you.

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post #204 of 450 Old 03-03-2008, 12:37 PM
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Originally Posted by Tawaun da bomb View Post

David Ellis's speakers is the 1801B which i think is a 2 way floorstander version of the 1801A standmount speaker,which Dennis done the crossovers for or it could be the other way around or a newer model of the standmounted speaker.

The 1801B is a monitor. The floorstander is the 1801F.
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post #205 of 450 Old 03-03-2008, 12:42 PM
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Not as much as people make it to be,a speaker thats subpar will be subpar in a good room or a bad room.

I will have to agree to disagree with you on the first part, but on the second I see what you're saying. However, that's why I said the best speaker in the world (good speakers will sound like crap in a poor room, and poor speakers will still sound poor, more than likely).

Actually, if you think about it, a poor speaker will still sound poor, but it may sound a little better or (more than likey) worse depending on how it interacts with the room. Some speakers are intentionally designed to work with rooms that have poor acoustics, but IMO I think it's best to start with a good speaker, then treat the room. Either way, what I said still holds true; room acoustics can effect the sound you hear almost as much as the speakers themselves.

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post #206 of 450 Old 03-03-2008, 01:00 PM
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Originally Posted by Nuance View Post

I will have to agree to disagree with you on the first part, but on the second I see what you're saying. However, that's why I said the best speaker in the world (good speakers will sound like crap in a poor room, and poor speakers will still sound poor, more than likely).

Actually, if you think about it, a poor speaker will still sound poor, but it may sound a little better or (more than likey) worse depending on how it interacts with the room. Some speakers are intentionally designed to work with rooms that have poor acoustics, but IMO I think it's best to start with a good speaker, then treat the room. Either way, what I said still holds true; room acoustics can effect the sound you hear almost as much as the speakers themselves.

Yep i'd start with a good speaker,then a good source and preamp that works hand and hand,then a good amp,quality cables,and last i would get to the room,its important but not as important as the other parts of the chain,because without them there wont be any sound at all.
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post #207 of 450 Old 03-03-2008, 01:02 PM
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Originally Posted by Tarpon View Post

The 1801B is a monitor. The floorstander is the 1801F.

Ok,got it,the F seems like a very interresting speaker I'd love to hear a pair.
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post #208 of 450 Old 03-03-2008, 01:14 PM
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Originally Posted by Tawaun da bomb View Post

Yep i'd start with a good speaker,then a good source and preamp that works hand and hand,then a good amp,quality cables,and last i would get to the room,its important but not as important as the other parts of the chain,because without them there wont be any sound at all.

LOL! When you put it that way it sounds good (I guess crappy sound is better than no sound at all...to some people), but as I said, the room effects the sound more than those components. We can agree to disagree on the rest.

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post #209 of 450 Old 03-03-2008, 01:14 PM
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Originally Posted by Tawaun da bomb View Post

Yep i'd start with a good speaker,then a good source and preamp that works hand and hand,then a good amp,quality cables,and last i would get to the room,its important but not as important as the other parts of the chain,because without them there wont be any sound at all.

If the room is a disaster, all the other money spent on speakers, preamp and amp is essentially wasted as the set up will sound like crap. I'd start with the room and spend what's left over on speakers, preamp and amp. I would much rather have a decent system in a great room rather than a great system in a bad room. The former will make beautiful music, the latter will have you running from the room.

Tony

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post #210 of 450 Old 03-03-2008, 01:18 PM
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^ Agreed!

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