Can Quintet II speakers be paired with 12" sub woofer - AVS Forum
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post #1 of 24 Old 03-09-2008, 02:13 PM - Thread Starter
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I am planning to pair Klipsch quintet II speakers with JBL 12" sub for Onkyo 705,
but while browsing through orbaudio FAQ's i've come across this comment regarding pairing small speakers with 10 or 12" subwoofer.

" Any subwoofer using an 8 inch woofer will be fine. 6.5 inch woofers will also work but are limited in output, perfect for bedroom or small room systems. Subs using a 10 inch woofer will also be fine as long as they have a variable crossover that goes to at least 120. (almost all of them will). Subwoofers using a 12 or 15 inch woofer will be more difficult. More likely than not, they will not blend well with Orb or any other small sized speaker, unless they are very high quality."
Does this apply to only orb speakers or any small sized speakers.
Any comments?
Thanks in advance.
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post #2 of 24 Old 03-09-2008, 02:37 PM
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A 12" sub should work fine. The biggest issue is that sometimes larger subs don't have good, flat frequency response above 100hz or so. Since your Quintet II's don't have very good deep extension (due to the tiny size), you'll probably be using a crossover of at least 100-120hz. If the 12" sub you're looking at purchasing has good, flat frequency response up to around 120-150hz you'll probably be just fine. If it tends to perform poorly above 80-100hz, you'll probably need to look elsewhere to ensure your system has good frequency response all the way through. Out of curiosity, what is your budget for the sub? Just curious how you've come to the JBL as your main consideration for a sub.
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post #3 of 24 Old 03-09-2008, 03:33 PM - Thread Starter
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thanks for the reply.
im looking to spend about about 200-300$ for the sub. after extensive search i found klipsch 10", 12" and JBL 12" in my price range, but not sure which one is better. im looking to spend about 500-600$ on the entire package for speakers and sub.not sure if this is the best cofigeration for my budget.
will be glad if you can suggest one.
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post #4 of 24 Old 03-09-2008, 04:19 PM
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Which Klipsch 12? the Synergy 12? or the KSW-12? The KSW is only so-so, but the Synergy 12 is actually a pretty potent sub IMO. I'm not sure how well it does in the 100-150hz range, but I'm assuming it might be ok since Klipsch always seems to package it with the Quintet speakers.
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post #5 of 24 Old 03-09-2008, 07:59 PM - Thread Starter
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Im talking about KSW 12. Synergy 12 is little over my budget. Im unable to decide between JBL 12 and ksw 12. (synergy 10 is also in my price range! )
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post #6 of 24 Old 03-10-2008, 11:51 AM
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If you're using it primarily for HT you might want to look at the Acoustech Bic H-100 as well. It can be found on eBay from a couple of authorized sellers. It usually goes for around $210 or so plus around $40-$50 shipping. I think it's a better choice than the KSW12, Synergy 10, and JBL Sub 12.
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post #7 of 24 Old 03-10-2008, 12:01 PM
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Hey jamdoc, I'm also considering the Quintet II + subwoofer. We seem to be hunting in the same price range, and I'm also concerned with that frequency hole in the 100-150hz range that can occur with satellite speakers + sub.

See my thread here for some other options I've been considering:
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=1005929
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post #8 of 24 Old 03-10-2008, 12:07 PM
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I while back I was considering Orb speakers, and this e-mail response I received from them is related to the FAQ quote you posted:

Quote:
If you feel the need to get a different sub, I'd go for the 10" sub, especially if you are going to be using the system for music. Any bigger and I think the sound will become boomy. The Super Eight wouldn't let you down, either.

The best crossover will be somewhere between 80 and 150hz, depending on your room. Most people wind up in the 100-120 range. The speakers have a flat response down to that point, so it's a good crossover point. The full specifications of the speakers are on our site, but generally speaking, they have a flat response from 100hz to 18,000hz, with gentle rolloff down to 80hz and up to 20,000hz.

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post #9 of 24 Old 03-10-2008, 01:31 PM
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I just purchased a Quintet II system and a BIC H-100 sub. My initial impressions of this combination is that there IS a big hole in the mid-bass range. I can drive the Quintets to produce a little more mid-bass but the speakers start to bottom out. The BIC H-100 is supposed to go up to 200Hz, but it still doesn't seem to blend well with the Quintets. I have an Infinity 8" sub that actually does a better job matching up with the Quintets, but it doesn't even come close to going as low as the BIC. I am already considering some Klipsch bookshelves for the front R and L channels and moving two of the Quintets to the rear for 7.1 sound.

My setup is probably OK for listening to movies, but with music it falls short.
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post #10 of 24 Old 03-10-2008, 02:03 PM
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Hey n1ghtpr0w1er,

Good feedback. That was the one thing I wasn't sure about with the Bic H-100. I didn't know how linear it was up above 100hz. Sounds like it isn't a very good match with small satellites. Most home subs aren't really designed to play really high. 80hz is a pretty standard crossover that almost any sub can be used at successfully, but if you need to use a crossover of 120hz or higher, many subs just won't do a very good job. Getting larger mains is a good idea. I think you'll notice an immediate improvement, especially with music. Satellite speakers are convenient but they really can't dig deep enough to allow for proper subwoofer integration, IMO. Even when using a sub that can successfully integrate with satellites at a 120hz or 150hz crossover, the sub then becomes too localizable as it's being asked to play frequencies that our ears find to be directional. Again, thanks for the feedback. Based on your impressions, I'd advise the OP not to go for the Bic if he is pursuing the Quintets.

To the OP: are you set on the Quintets or did you just like them because they're relatively inexpensive? If you need tiny speakers, they're a good choice on a low budget, but for a similar price you can get bookshelf speakers that will give significantly better performance, especially with music. If you're open to other suggestions, you could go with two pairs of Polk R150 bookshelf speakers from frys.com ($49.99 per pair) and a Polk CSR Center speaker (usually $80-$100). This would give you 5.0 for probably about $250 including shipping, and you could get the Bic or another capable sub and use a more normal crossover of 80hz since the bookshelf speakers can play low enough. Just a thought. Though if you're set on the Klipsch, feel free to disregard the idea. Good luck!
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post #11 of 24 Old 03-10-2008, 02:54 PM
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Hey jamdoc, I have the omnisat micros paired with a m&k v75 crossed over at 80hz sounds awesome by the way they blend in with the music and my home theater. Try fleabay and see what they have to offer in your range. I only paid $325 for this sub. HSU is another sub I would try on there that could blend in well with what you have.
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post #12 of 24 Old 03-10-2008, 03:56 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lalakersfan34 View Post

Hey n1ghtpr0w1er,

Good feedback. That was the one thing I wasn't sure about with the Bic H-100. I didn't know how linear it was up above 100hz. Sounds like it isn't a very good match with small satellites. Most home subs aren't really designed to play really high. 80hz is a pretty standard crossover that almost any sub can be used at successfully, but if you need to use a crossover of 120hz or higher, many subs just won't do a very good job. Getting larger mains is a good idea. I think you'll notice an immediate improvement, especially with music. Satellite speakers are convenient but they really can't dig deep enough to allow for proper subwoofer integration, IMO. Even when using a sub that can successfully integrate with satellites at a 120hz or 150hz crossover, the sub then becomes too localizable as it's being asked to play frequencies that our ears find to be directional. Again, thanks for the feedback. Based on your impressions, I'd advise the OP not to go for the Bic if he is pursuing the Quintets.

To the OP: are you set on the Quintets or did you just like them because they're relatively inexpensive? If you need tiny speakers, they're a good choice on a low budget, but for a similar price you can get bookshelf speakers that will give significantly better performance, especially with music. If you're open to other suggestions, you could go with two pairs of Polk R150 bookshelf speakers from frys.com ($49.99 per pair) and a Polk CSR Center speaker (usually $80-$100). This would give you 5.0 for probably about $250 including shipping, and you could get the Bic or another capable sub and use a more normal crossover of 80hz since the bookshelf speakers can play low enough. Just a thought. Though if you're set on the Klipsch, feel free to disregard the idea. Good luck!

Quote:
Originally Posted by kpax478 View Post

Hey jamdoc, I have the omnisat micros paired with a m&k v75 crossed over at 80hz sounds awesome by the way they blend in with the music and my home theater. Try fleabay and see what they have to offer in your range. I only paid $325 for this sub. HSU is another sub I would try on there that could blend in well with what you have.

Thanks for the reply. I am not really perticular about quintets but just like the price range and reviews. Im open for any good alternatives around that price.
how about fluance? they r for 200$ ! even polk speakers are a good suggestion.
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post #13 of 24 Old 03-10-2008, 05:37 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lalakersfan34 View Post

Hey n1ghtpr0w1er,

Good feedback. That was the one thing I wasn't sure about with the Bic H-100. I didn't know how linear it was up above 100hz. Sounds like it isn't a very good match with small satellites. Most home subs aren't really designed to play really high. 80hz is a pretty standard crossover that almost any sub can be used at successfully, but if you need to use a crossover of 120hz or higher, many subs just won't do a very good job. Getting larger mains is a good idea. I think you'll notice an immediate improvement, especially with music. Satellite speakers are convenient but they really can't dig deep enough to allow for proper subwoofer integration, IMO. Even when using a sub that can successfully integrate with satellites at a 120hz or 150hz crossover, the sub then becomes too localizable as it's being asked to play frequencies that our ears find to be directional. Again, thanks for the feedback. Based on your impressions, I'd advise the OP not to go for the Bic if he is pursuing the Quintets.

To the OP: are you set on the Quintets or did you just like them because they're relatively inexpensive? If you need tiny speakers, they're a good choice on a low budget, but for a similar price you can get bookshelf speakers that will give significantly better performance, especially with music. If you're open to other suggestions, you could go with two pairs of Polk R150 bookshelf speakers from frys.com ($49.99 per pair) and a Polk CSR Center speaker (usually $80-$100). This would give you 5.0 for probably about $250 including shipping, and you could get the Bic or another capable sub and use a more normal crossover of 80hz since the bookshelf speakers can play low enough. Just a thought. Though if you're set on the Klipsch, feel free to disregard the idea. Good luck!

You're right on the money. The only crossover point that works at all is the 120 Hz setting. Everything else sounds like crapola. I have been tweaking the placement and settings here for the past hour and have improved the sound some, but it is nowhere near where I would like it.
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post #14 of 24 Old 03-10-2008, 06:16 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by n1ghtpr0w1er View Post

You're right on the money. The only crossover point that works at all is the 120 Hz setting. Everything else sounds like crapola. I have been tweaking the placement and settings here for the past hour and have improved the sound some, but it is nowhere near where I would like it.

Not surprised. Anything lower than 120hz and you'll have a gaping hole in your frequency response. Even 120hz will be pushing it if you start driving the satellites hard. At high volumes they probably won't be able to keep up.

So are you for sure getting some bookshelf speakers? If possible, I'd get two bookshelf speakers and a center speaker as well. That way the front sound stage should match well. You won't want to have a small center, as proper dialog reproduction is so key to movie soundtracks. The surrounds won't matter nearly as much, and moving your smaller Klipsch satellites to be four surrounds for 7.1 is a great idea. They'll do fine for the directional effects surround channels are usually used for. I think you'll be very pleased with the improvement larger speakers will make in the front sound stage. Out of curiosity, what speakers are you looking at getting?
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post #15 of 24 Old 03-10-2008, 06:47 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lalakersfan34 View Post

Not surprised. Anything lower than 120hz and you'll have a gaping hole in your frequency response. Even 120hz will be pushing it if you start driving the satellites hard. At high volumes they probably won't be able to keep up.

So are you for sure getting some bookshelf speakers? If possible, I'd get two bookshelf speakers and a center speaker as well. That way the front sound stage should match well. You won't want to have a small center, as proper dialog reproduction is so key to movie soundtracks. The surrounds won't matter nearly as much, and moving your smaller Klipsch satellites to be four surrounds for 7.1 is a great idea. They'll do fine for the directional effects surround channels are usually used for. I think you'll be very pleased with the improvement larger speakers will make in the front sound stage. Out of curiosity, what speakers are you looking at getting?

I am looking at the Klipsch RB-51s or the B-2s. I hate to not use the center channel in the Quintets since I just bought it. Do you think going without a center channel in a "phantom" setup would work? I am hesitant to buy a new center channel when it alone would cost more than the entire Quintet set.

I am not dead set on Klipsch, but it would be nice to have the set match.
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post #16 of 24 Old 03-11-2008, 05:35 AM
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I have the Quintet II's, a Bic H-100, and an Onkyo 505 receiver. I have the crossover on the sub all the way up and control the crossover point from the receiver. I ran Audyssey and it set the crossover to 150 Hz, and I am pleasantly surprised at how well the whole combination works together. Yes, at 150 Hz the sub can sometimes be localized, but that can depend of speaker placement and room acoustics. Overall, I think they blend well together. This setup works great as my living room rig.
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post #17 of 24 Old 03-11-2008, 06:41 AM - Thread Starter
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Any suggestions on this combination-
Bic H-100 sub with Fluance SX-HTB or AV-HTB? They seem to be in my price reach.
AV-HTB has some good reviews on cnet.
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post #18 of 24 Old 03-11-2008, 07:46 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ChipSmith View Post

I have the Quintet II's, a Bic H-100, and an Onkyo 505 receiver. I have the crossover on the sub all the way up and control the crossover point from the receiver. I ran Audyssey and it set the crossover to 150 Hz, and I am pleasantly surprised at how well the whole combination works together. Yes, at 150 Hz the sub can sometimes be localized, but that can depend of speaker placement and room acoustics. Overall, I think they blend well together. This setup works great as my living room rig.

Do you have the switch on the BIC set to dolby digital 5.1 or to dolby pro-logic? When the switch is set to dolby digital, the crossover on the sub is disabled and the crossover point is controlled by the receiver.

Just asking because I want to try the settings that you have. I have an Onkyo 503 receiver, so it sounds like I have almost exactly the same setup.

Also, how big is your room? My room is open to the kitchen area so it is rather large. That may be one of the reasons my setup doesn't sound as good.
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post #19 of 24 Old 03-12-2008, 10:26 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ChipSmith View Post

I have the Quintet II's, a Bic H-100, and an Onkyo 505 receiver. I have the crossover on the sub all the way up and control the crossover point from the receiver. I ran Audyssey and it set the crossover to 150 Hz, and I am pleasantly surprised at how well the whole combination works together. Yes, at 150 Hz the sub can sometimes be localized, but that can depend of speaker placement and room acoustics. Overall, I think they blend well together. This setup works great as my living room rig.

Chipsmith, thanks for this input. I have the Q II's as well, and (once I get past getting replacement grills since they keep sending me broken ones. Disappointingly cheap plastic) I'm considering the Bic H-100 as well. I'm thinking for now it'll be fine setting up the crossover where you have put it, and then later on purchase some larger Klipsch for the front mains to complete a 7.1 system. Then hopefully I'd be able to back down on the crossover point.
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post #20 of 24 Old 03-17-2008, 10:26 PM
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Just an update, I bought a pair of Klipsch RB-51 bookshelves to replace the front L and R satellites of the Quintet II set and dropped the crossover down to 80 Hz from 120Hz and the sound difference is simply amazing.

I'm no audiophile, but the RB-51's seem to extend really low for such small speakers.
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post #21 of 24 Old 03-21-2008, 07:43 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by n1ghtpr0w1er View Post

Do you have the switch on the BIC set to dolby digital 5.1 or to dolby pro-logic? When the switch is set to dolby digital, the crossover on the sub is disabled and the crossover point is controlled by the receiver.

Sorry for the delayed response. I finally remembered to check the switch, and I have it set to Dolby Pro Logic. I didn't realize that Dolby Digital 5.1 setting disabled the sub's crossover. I might have to experiment now.

Quote:
Originally Posted by n1ghtpr0w1er View Post

Also, how big is your room? My room is open to the kitchen area so it is rather large. That may be one of the reasons my setup doesn't sound as good.

My living room 17' x 18' and also opens to the kitchen (14' x 17'). The entire area has a cathedral ceiling. There are also openings to the foyer and dining room. This space is less than ideal for optimal sound quality, but this equipment is good enough to keep me happy until I get around to building my dedicated theater.
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post #22 of 24 Old 03-21-2008, 09:56 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by n1ghtpr0w1er View Post

Just an update, I bought a pair of Klipsch RB-51 bookshelves to replace the front L and R satellites of the Quintet II set and dropped the crossover down to 80 Hz from 120Hz and the sound difference is simply amazing.

I'm no audiophile, but the RB-51's seem to extend really low for such small speakers.

Hey there,

I see you got the bookshelf speakers. Sounds like you really like them so far . I'd think you notice a huge difference, especially with music. Impressions are most definitely in order.
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post #23 of 24 Old 03-21-2008, 10:48 AM
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jamdoc,

Did you give the dimensions of your HT, or did I just miss it? Quintets may prove at least satisfactory in a small HT, and they're pretty well made. They might get lost in a large room. And the response of your sub will change noticeably based on placement, reflectiveness of walls, etc., and depending on your room, maybe even more than size of the driver.

IMHO
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post #24 of 24 Old 03-23-2008, 02:49 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by yobob View Post

jamdoc,

Did you give the dimensions of your HT, or did I just miss it? Quintets may prove at least satisfactory in a small HT, and they're pretty well made. They might get lost in a large room. And the response of your sub will change noticeably based on placement, reflectiveness of walls, etc., and depending on your room, maybe even more than size of the driver.

IMHO

my room dimensions are 22X14. width is 22 (including the kitchen extension) but the length is 14 feet. (i.e my tv viewing distance is 14 feet).
im actually quiet confused.
the more i go thru this forum it puts me in dilemma as to which speakers i should buy. i have decided that im not going to upgrade my speakers for next 4-5 years, so i increased my budget to 1000-1200$(including the subwoofer)
im considering BIC ( H 100 sub with HT88 towers ,HT 85 and HT63)
, ED( A2-300 sub with 6t6 towers, 5tc rears and 5t5 center)
or SVS ( sbs speakers package with pb12-nsd sub). they all seem to be in my price range and they
all have excellent reviews.
i have learned a lot from this great forum.
ill be glad to receive some feedback.
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