ML Prodigy's vs. ML CLS's w/Velo HGS18's - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #1 of 12 Old 05-14-2001, 03:41 PM - Thread Starter
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What do think? Pro's, cons, etc...
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post #2 of 12 Old 05-14-2001, 06:37 PM
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I'm sure you'll have lots of people chime in on this one here is my 2 cents...

First what music do you intend to listen to?

What is your room size and your amplification?

Do you like to listen really loud?

These are all factors that you should consider before commiting to either. I have not had the pleasure of hearing the Odyssey's yet but look forward to it. I do however have the pleasure of owning CLS IIz's, I actually use them without a sub... I find that I do not have the funds currently to integrate the sub with 2 channel to my liking. I really like the sound of the big panel, and find the bass to be ok if sparing...

You really need to listen in your own home if possible...

Good luck you can't really go wrong.

Miles
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post #3 of 12 Old 05-14-2001, 06:57 PM
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I think you should get the odysseys with a REL stadium!

I've been listening to the Odysseys for a couple days and I'm on the fringe of buying.

The only down side to the ML CLS IIz's is the size, other than that I've heard they really are the best speaker logan makes for imaging and detail.

Personally I feel the Prodigys are over priced and the Odysseys are about 95% of what the prodigys can do for much less but I'm not Gayle Sanders either.

I would completely rule out the Velo for music, get a REL the HGS18 is junk IMO.

I think the CLSIIz's or the Odysseys with a REL stadium or storm if you don't have the cash would be reference http://www.avsforum.com/ubb/smile.gif!!

I don't really like the Prodigys for 10500 dollars, Id rather have the Vienna Mahlers.

I'm about two weeks away from the Odysseys myself I hope, and I can't afford a sub yet. But when I can you can bet it will be the REL stadium.

I could almost get the CLSIIz's but I've never heard them and in the DFW area theres nowhere to hear em.

I will say that the Martin Logans are Harsh I mean really harsh before being broke in. They need around 150 hours from what I've heard.

Good Luck,

Nathan

[This message has been edited by Nathan Ivey (edited 05-14-2001).]
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post #4 of 12 Old 05-14-2001, 07:07 PM
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I've owned CLS a couple times and loved what they do well, although at the end of the day I need more dynamism from my speakers.

I managed to blend them well with the Celestion dipole subs, and I imagine other dipole subs would work as well.

I haven't heard the Prodigys, but have heard the earleir hybrids and never liked them as much as the CLS.

Steve
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post #5 of 12 Old 05-15-2001, 08:05 AM
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The Prodigys were/are a significant jump for Martin Logan in the realm of dynamic driver to electrostat integration. The biggest difference you will find is the huge dynamics that the Prodigy's can produce over their previous products. These also have the midbass power which most previous Martin Logan products lacked. I had a good bit of time to play with the Prodigys, but I have not yet really listened to the Odysseys as of yet. The Odyssey is a value engineered Prodigy of sorts, and uses completely different midbass drivers (front driver I mean). If possible, I would go for the Prodigys in a heartbeat. The only issue might be your amplification, as these really benefit from having some very solid power behind them. Depending on your tastes, I would consider the Odysseys with a quality subwoofer for about the same money as the Prodigys, particularly if you are limited with your power. For subwoofers to mate with the Martin Logans, I would looks to the Aerial SW-12, the REL subwoofers mentioned above, and the offerings from Revel. If your priorities are for music, I believe there are more suitable options over the Velodyne.

As for the CLS's, I do like them, but they are fussier with room placment and simply don't have the dynamics of the newer Martin Logans, where no matter what sub you integrate, the midbass will never have the power of the Prodigys. Again, it's a matter of priorities and tastes, but this should give you a good idea of what to expect and compare.

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post #6 of 12 Old 05-15-2001, 01:40 PM - Thread Starter
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Thanks all for your replies.

For music I would probably cross over the sub very low or not even use the sub except for HT. In that case, wouldn't the HGS18 do better for HT LFE?

What amps work best with the ML's?

Also, what ML's would be best for the surround and center channels?
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post #7 of 12 Old 05-15-2001, 02:29 PM
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My friend has the CLS-IIz and runs them with VTL MB-125 tube monoblocks, and a Sony 777 SACD player.

I have lent him my Bryston 7B-ST for a couple of weeks and they really increased the dynamic capablites, and bass. His system playing the Jacintha SACD was the best thing I have ever heard ... in terms of detail, transparency, and "naturalness".

I also brought over a Crown K2 ( pro-audio ) amp last night and they had a similar effect as the Brystons - great dynamics but more "in-your-face" presentation. I was impressed at the bass the CLS-IIz could deliver with a current oriented solid state amp that can handle very low impedences. However, though impressed with what bass the CLS-IIz could deliver, there is far too little mid-bass on down for my likings - I like feeling the pressure waves of mid-bass.

Another aquaintance is very happy with his Citation 7.1 ( bridged-mode at 2x400 and tons of current ) running his M.L. ReQuests.

- Andy
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post #8 of 12 Old 05-15-2001, 03:27 PM
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Hi,

I'd definitely take to heart the first response, RE room size, type of music etc.

I have owned SL3's, CLSIIz's, reQuests, etc, and had the Prodigy's. I've recently ordered Aerial 10T-s, as they seemed so much more real. The Martin Logans, IMHO, are very much in your face. Though their dynamics are great, and I was hoping after the 2nd day of auditioning both types of speakers that it was "just the day," the ML were just to dark.

Mind you, I "wanted" to like the ML over the Aerials because they look so "cool" and eclectic, and I'm in the middle of redoing my HT with a 61" plasma....so the ML would look great in such a room. However, the sound quality of the Aerial's was just so smooth, it was literally the first time I heard a 3-dimensional sound from any speaker (which is surprising considering the ML is a dipole).

My room is small, 12ft wide x 20 ft deep, but man, check out the Aerials! You owe it to yourself - I got my pair for $4k new!
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post #9 of 12 Old 05-15-2001, 06:38 PM
 
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I have a pair of CLS IIZs mounted on Sound Anchors stands and two Muse 18 subs. All in black and sexy. My experience with the CLSs is that you do not cross them over with Velodyne HGS 18 subs(I have one). You run everything straight from the preamp. On big orchestral music the Velodynes are awesome but they can't keep up with Jazz like the Muses do. Anyway I would never give up my CLSs for the Prodigys.

[This message has been edited by Grosse Fatigue (edited 05-15-2001).]
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post #10 of 12 Old 05-16-2001, 08:11 AM
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I should probably note that as with most Martin Logan products, I have heard them sound wonderful, and horrible in different settings and placements. In some respects I can see that some would consider the earlier ML products a little up front, but one of the qualities many have attributed to the Prodigys was their definite increased in percieved depth as opposed to their previous hybrid speakers. The CLS's are a rather unique speaker and are not for everyone. Having had the pleasure of hearing the Prodigys set up in a decent home setting, I know that for *myself* I would preffer the Prodigys over a pair of CLS's, but I readily acknowledge there are certain things the CLS's do that the Prodigys won't, and vice versa. As for the Aerial's, they are great speakers, and one of their endearing qualities is that they will sound good in more rooms than most speakers I have encountered. If I had an appropriate room for the Prodigys, I don't know if I would go with the 10Ts over the Prodigys, but I do know that the 10Ts would almost always leave an easier chore of integrating to the room. Of course finally there is also the issue of the different voicings of the two speakers, where the Aerial will have a relatively more pronounced midbass and bottom end than the Prodigys, but the Prodigys do indeed have decent low end extension.

What you need to do is give us some refference points as to what you thought of some similar speakers so we can see where your priorities lie, and your attention focuses. Otherwise, we are just throwing out the millions of possibilities for your room and budget.

Regards,

Mark Seaton

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post #11 of 12 Old 05-16-2001, 10:56 AM - Thread Starter
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Not to upset the apple cart or get off on a tangent, but I have auditioned both the Aerial's and the B&W's and prefer the B&W's as they seem to image better.

In regard to the Martin Logan's they perhaps don't do "rock 'n roll" better, but seem to do classical, jazz, new age, etc. better.

Since I listen to most of the latter, I am leaning towards the ML's.

Now, Prodigy's?...Or CLS's w/subs?...That is the question.
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post #12 of 12 Old 05-16-2001, 11:44 AM
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Vimstl,

That is a huge difference in price w/o subs... add in an external active cross over and some combo of subs... and It is still probably a 2k difference, assuming you have a big enough room I would be inclined to go used CLS IIz, some funky cross over and a pair of svs 16-46 subs... I still think you should get your dealer to let you try either/or at home... both will be critical of your other equipment, I think that the CLS might actually be easier to drive than the prodiges ( I may be wrong http://www.avsforum.com/ubb/biggrin.gif ) anyway good luck, you might want to post your question over on audio asylum they have a planer forum.

Miles
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