Best speaker that is not a tower & not a bookshelf? - AVS Forum
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post #1 of 47 Old 06-05-2008, 12:39 AM - Thread Starter
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I want to thank everyone who helped me out with this thread, but as I am now more confused than before, I have started a new thread that will hopefully narrow down my search a little more.
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I am looking to get a stereo speaker system for my 15'x15' office with a budget up to $2000 (but would like to stay at $1000). I will be working behind a desk, so a tower will not work, but I have room for something larger than the "standard" 2-way tweeter/6" woofer bookshelf and would really love to get as much clear low end response without buying a subwoofer. There has to be something out there that will suit my needs, but I have had a hard time finding it.

Anyone have any suggestions? Thanks!
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post #2 of 47 Old 06-05-2008, 12:51 AM
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Maybe something like an like an LCR with a MMT or MTM configuration?
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post #3 of 47 Old 06-05-2008, 07:43 AM
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Studio Monitors were made for this type of situation. Look at Adam or Genelec low-end models (their high-end can cost as much as a car)
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post #4 of 47 Old 06-05-2008, 08:15 AM
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Quote:


would really love to get as much clear low end response without buying a subwoofer.

You are not going to get quality < 80Hz stuff unless you go big and even then its subjective. Subs are the only way to get truely clear low end response.

Why not add small subs to bookshelves? For $1500 you could buy two 8" subs (Ie SC-8s from velodyne) and buy 2 MTMs from Elemental designs.

$1000 for small cool subs , $500 for a pair of bookshelves will give you incredible low end and high end.

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post #5 of 47 Old 06-05-2008, 08:18 AM
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if that appoarch isnt what you want then how about these options....

http://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/LSR6332L/

http://www.spectradesign.com/Equipme...n_sys12ii.html

EDIT: Never mind the Tannoy system, they are MSRP $4500 each!!

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post #6 of 47 Old 06-05-2008, 08:54 AM
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You could go with a MTM design. It's like a big bookshelf. The dual woofers typically go about 10hz lower than their bookshelf counterpart (at least that is what I see from a quick scan AV123, eD and Polk).
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post #7 of 47 Old 06-05-2008, 09:36 AM
 
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Dynaudio has two new monitors out with 8" and 10" drivers that might fit the bill.
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post #8 of 47 Old 06-05-2008, 10:02 AM
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Sony SSB-3000. Is 50Hz low enough for you? they are only $99.00 so they are no big loss.

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post #9 of 47 Old 06-05-2008, 11:38 AM
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If you are listening to music at moderate levels, the bookshelf speaker that actually does have plenty of quality bass while remaining accurate in the mids and highs seems to be the Ascend Sierra-1s and they are just under $1K shipped, with a 30 day trial period.

Google up the reviews...
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post #10 of 47 Old 06-05-2008, 11:51 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Raymond Leggs View Post

Sony SSB-3000. Is 50Hz low enough for you? they are only $99.00 so they are no big loss.

Why do you keep coming into threads and recommending products that are nowhere near what the OPs are looking for? This was a very legit topic and there was no reason to post your choice as makes the site look childish. We have enough idiots here already who come and go and we dont need a full time class clown.

If you are just trying to pad your post count I would suggest you stop because you will become the most hated poster on this board real quick.


To the OP like wiggles suggested thats a good option. DefTech makes some SMs too albeit a bit under your budget at $660 a pair

StudioMonitor 450 Specifications:
Dimensions: 8-3/8" W x 11-7/16" D x 13" H
Frequency Response: 24 Hz – 30 kHz
Driver Complement:
– 6-1/2" cast-basket polymer coned bass/midrange driver
– One 1" pure aluminum dome tweeter with a 10" pressure-driven subwoofer
Nominal Impedance: Compatible with 4 – 8 ohms
Rec. Assoc. Amplification: 20 – 225 watts
Efficiency: 90 db
Finish: Gloss Black
Retail: $329 ea.

What are your going to use for power?
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post #11 of 47 Old 06-05-2008, 12:55 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bruins29 View Post

Why do you keep coming into threads and recommending products that are nowhere near what the OPs are looking for? This was a very legit topic and there was no reason to post your choice as makes the site look childish. We have enough idiots here already who come and go and we dont need a full time class clown.

If you are just trying to pad your post count I would suggest you stop because you will become the most hated poster on this board real quick.


To the OP like wiggles suggested thats a good option. DefTech makes some SMs too albeit a bit under your budget at $660 a pair

StudioMonitor 450 Specifications:
Dimensions: 8-3/8" W x 11-7/16" D x 13" H
Frequency Response: 24 Hz - 30 kHz
Driver Complement:
- 6-1/2" cast-basket polymer coned bass/midrange driver
- One 1" pure aluminum dome tweeter with a 10" pressure-driven subwoofer
Nominal Impedance: Compatible with 4 - 8 ohms
Rec. Assoc. Amplification: 20 - 225 watts
Efficiency: 90 db
Finish: Gloss Black
Retail: $329 ea.

What are your going to use for power?

How does one fit a "10" sub in a speaker that small and not have an undersized box for the sub driver?

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post #12 of 47 Old 06-05-2008, 01:35 PM
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"pressure driven" isn't a subwoofer, it's a passive radiator.
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post #13 of 47 Old 06-05-2008, 01:52 PM
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I'll second the studio monitor option.

I love my Mackie HR824 and might slightly prefer the sound of the Dynaudio monitors. I wasn't able compare them at the same time in the same room. Either one should work for your situation, and the Mackies can go lower according to their specs (35 Hz).

http://www.zzounds.com/item--DYNBM6AMKII

http://www.zzounds.com/item--MACHR824MKII
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post #14 of 47 Old 06-05-2008, 02:40 PM
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AV123 will be releasing the new MLS Reference Digital Monitor in a few months. -3db at 32Hz

"The electronics are a tri-amp package - 150 watts for the woofer and 50 watts each for the midrange and the tweeter... (so 250 watts total PER SPEAKER)... ALL DSP Controlled Crossovers and EQ...

I am going to market this guy (in limited production quantities) with the passive Crossover Module at $999 per pair... and with the electronics at an extra $299 per speaker...

We will be able to spin this product off for some goodies for av123 - and perhaps others... This work has been going on for 6 months now...

8" single layer metal cone woofer

4" titanium cone midrange

3 X 1" ribbon tweeter...

Analog and Digital Inputs

USB input

Everything under DSP control... everything fully programmable..."

Here's the product page.

I was thinking about getting a pair in one of my rooms when it's available.
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post #15 of 47 Old 06-05-2008, 02:50 PM
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I dunno, have never been crazy about DSP-controlled music...never sounds quite right, to my ears. Ditto with equalizer presets, tone controls, etc.

Would much rather have a simple, accurate and coherent 2-way speaker with the best possible drivers and crossovers I could afford.
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post #16 of 47 Old 06-05-2008, 04:25 PM
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Im actually thinking of building some "MEAN" kick ass Bookshelf speakers for my HT room...its more or less a monster MTM design twin 12" or 10" drivers with an offset tweeter. I havent found a comerical speaker that can keep up with my twin subs yet...unless I spend 4-5K

Does the OP want to DIY together???

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post #17 of 47 Old 06-05-2008, 04:27 PM
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I have thought about the Def Tech StudioMonitor 450s actually but what would the CC be?

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post #18 of 47 Old 06-05-2008, 05:26 PM
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artcoustic speakers

http://www.artcoustic.com/download/Diablo%20Monitor.pdf

Thats if you can find a dealer...my local Harvey closed and they carried these. i'd buy this but its way out of budget. These are beautiful speakers with or without those nicely designed fabric grills.

Anyone auditioned artcoustic speakers yet?
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post #19 of 47 Old 06-05-2008, 09:48 PM
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The SSR sounds like a nice fit, has an f3 of 45hz and a f10 of 34hz. cost is under budget just slightly at $1500/pr

http://www.selahaudio.com/id124.html
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post #20 of 47 Old 06-05-2008, 09:53 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NewOrlnsDukie View Post

AV123 will be releasing the new MLS Reference Digital Monitor in a few months. -3db at 32Hz
I was thinking about getting a pair in one of my rooms when it's available.

Wow, that speaker is very impressive looking, sounds like from the specs it's pretty far out there on the technical side as well, kind of like a DEQX built into it. very cool.
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post #21 of 47 Old 06-05-2008, 09:55 PM - Thread Starter
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I will be powering these with a Harmon Kardon AVR 8000 (yeah, the big one).

I have listened to several low cost studio monitors, my favorite being the Dynaudio BM15P. I have yet to find a MMT or MTM that has any real response below 45Hz.

I have been looking at the NHT Classic Three, Salk Sound, AV123 (the mls Reference Digital Monitor looks very interesting), the Ascend Sierra-1, Monitor Audio, B&W, ProAc, Dynaudio, Focal, Revel, Epos, Elemental Design, Hsu Research, JBL, and many more.

The Reference Digital Monitor from AV123 is at the top of my list, but it will likely be many months before it comes to light. Anyone else have other ideas? Thanks again!
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post #22 of 47 Old 06-05-2008, 10:29 PM
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I have these and they are absolutely fantastic, the ribbon tweeter is smoother and more detailed than most dome tweeters, and the 7" slit paper scan speak woofer has a fantastic bass, probably the best of its size. It needs a sub if you want to get to the very 20hz and below though. But I doubt you'll find a bookshelf that doesnt, and the content where such bass is present is quite rare (mostly action movies). Scan speak woofer has a very smooth, detailed and revealing midrange too. The cabinet is huge for a bookshelf, since you wanted that. SSR speakers sound as neutral detailed and smooth as live sound to me. Overall I would expect it to outclass most of comparably priced speakers sold by widely known brands, just based on level of parts implemented.
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post #23 of 47 Old 06-06-2008, 01:17 PM
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also do a Google search for the Alegria Audio Emmas. It's a 2-way design with an enormous rear bass port that will make you THINK you have a subwoofer somewhere. Should run around $700. The company is no longer in full production but if you contact them directly they might have some odd stock lying around or can build one to order.
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post #24 of 47 Old 06-06-2008, 01:42 PM
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I'd be surprised to find any smaller speaker that has any real output below 45 hz. I could be wrong I haven't heard a tenth of what's available. I do have some old B&W DM 1400 that are called a floor speaker but they are only about 24" tall and 11" wide they come with floor stands but they can be removed if needed. Those get some good low end. I don't think they go below 45 hz though.
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post #25 of 47 Old 06-06-2008, 05:10 PM
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How about the Salk Sound SongSurround II's? Not a bookshelf and not a tower; just something in between. The Song Tower's are the best speaker I've heard under $3000, so I'd imagine the Surround II's will be pretty close but for less money.

Those MLS Reference Digital Monitors sure do look nice too!

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post #26 of 47 Old 06-06-2008, 06:27 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jnickrand View Post

You could go with a MTM design. It's like a big bookshelf. The dual woofers typically go about 10hz lower than their bookshelf counterpart (at least that is what I see from a quick scan AV123, eD and Polk).


Not quite. Adding another woofer (with an appropriate increase in cabinet volume) will in effect shove the response curve up in terms of sensitivity, but it won't really extend the bass response. For a given level of dB output, however, running 2 woofers will lower the distortion at any frequency (because each woofer isn't working as hard as one woofer running alone), and this will make for a cleaner bass response at a given frequency. But an MTM won't extend down 10 dB further than an MT with the same drivers. The -3dB point will be the same. It's only distortion that will change.
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post #27 of 47 Old 06-06-2008, 06:34 PM
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Quote:
I'd be surprised to find any smaller speaker that has any real output below 45 hz. I could be wrong I haven't heard a tenth of what's available. I do have some old B&W DM 1400 that are called a floor speaker but they are only about 24" tall and 11" wide they come with floor stands but they can be removed if needed. Those get some good low end. I don't think they go below 45 hz though.

Im starting to look at designs using Lambda drivers. These drivers are sick and few speakers have drivers this good.

A bookshelf size box (20Hx15W)with a 10" driver will do 40Hz easily (although its not a "Small" bookshelf), I measured with WinISD tonight. The tweeter will be NeoPro5i. This a TW design (tweeter Woofer) and the woofer is good enough to do both low and mid bass, the tweeter is a ribbon tweeter that is one of the top tweeters out there.

its going to be interesting to hear it if I ever get it built. Its like building $10K quality speakers for DIY costs of under $2K

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post #28 of 47 Old 06-06-2008, 08:48 PM
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Is that one of those huge ribbons that can be crossed over very low? They are great in that sense, but they also have extremely narrow vertical dispersion so slight movements of your head will result in treble sounding different.
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post #29 of 47 Old 06-07-2008, 05:21 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dennis Murphy View Post

Not quite. Adding another woofer (with an appropriate increase in cabinet volume) will in effect shove the response curve up in terms of sensitivity, but it won't really extend the bass response. For a given level of dB output, however, running 2 woofers will lower the distortion at any frequency (because each woofer isn't working as hard as one woofer running alone), and this will make for a cleaner bass response at a given frequency. But an MTM won't extend down 10 dB further than an MT with the same drivers. The -3dB point will be the same. It's only distortion that will change.

Not quite. If you actually take the time to look at the specifications, like I did, you'll see that most (everyone that I looked at actually) MTM designs have a -3dB figure at least 5hz (with some at 7 and some at 10) lower than their corresponding bookshelf counterpart. I compared eD A6-5T5 vs A3-5TC, Polk Monitor 30's vs. 40's, Ascend 170SE vs 340SE and since AV123 didn't have a bookshelf MTM I compared their floorstanding single vs. MTM designs (X-SLS & X-MTM). In every case the MTM design went lower than the single woofer counterpart, and the AV123 floorstander offered the least "improvement". The eD's went 10hz lower, the Polk's 6 and the Ascend's 7hz lower (all from their spec sheets at -3dB).
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post #30 of 47 Old 06-07-2008, 07:42 AM
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Quote:


Is that one of those huge ribbons that can be crossed over very low? They are great in that sense, but they also have extremely narrow vertical dispersion so slight movements of your head will result in treble sounding different.

yeah, that is actually discussion now.....

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