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post #91 of 511 Old 06-16-2008, 07:08 AM
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I have a question. With all the new processors and receivers with built in EQ, does the frequency of the speaker matter that much anymore, it seems many are just eqing to flat anyway. Does that mean a speaker with better dynamics, power handling, and soundstage matter more the flat frequency(again EQ). I know if a speaker is way off(frequency) someone can not EQ enough but do we buy such speakers. Also, specs are just a start, we need to listen.
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post #92 of 511 Old 06-16-2008, 07:11 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MKtheater View Post

I have a question. With all the new processors and receivers with built in EQ, does the frequency of the speaker matter that much anymore, it seems many are just eqing to flat anyway. Does that mean a speaker with better dynamics, power handling, and soundstage matter more the flat frequency(again EQ). I know if a speaker is way off(frequency) someone can not EQ enough but do we buy such speakers. Also, specs are just a start, we need to listen.

I reduce the number of circuits in the signal path as much as possible. I would never use tone controls or eq, as I always listen in "direct mode". How they sound in that mode is, therefore, my only criterion for good speakers.
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post #93 of 511 Old 06-16-2008, 07:19 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MKtheater View Post

I have a question. With all the new processors and receivers with built in EQ, does the frequency of the speaker matter that much anymore, it seems many are just eqing to flat anyway. Does that mean a speaker with better dynamics, power handling, and soundstage matter more the flat frequency(again EQ). I know if a speaker is way off(frequency) someone can not EQ enough but do we buy such speakers. Also, specs are just a start, we need to listen.


EQing is good for notching spikes in the freequency, but I wouldn't want to use it for amplifying certain frequencies. That will only greatly reduce amp overhead and increase distortion threshold.
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post #94 of 511 Old 06-16-2008, 07:34 AM
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So, NIN and Pulliamm.... based on your beliefs that a ruler flat FR is your primary determination of what makes a wonderful sounding speaker, how would you rate this speaker? Do you feel it could even compete with what you have?


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post #95 of 511 Old 06-16-2008, 07:37 AM
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is that an in-room measurement?
and are those off-axis measurements in there too? If so, looks impressive.
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post #96 of 511 Old 06-16-2008, 07:41 AM
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Originally Posted by zero the hero View Post

is that an in-room measurement?
and are those off-axis measurements in there too? If so, looks impressive.

Measurements are anechoic and yes, 15 and 30 degree off axis measurements are also included in the above graph....

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post #97 of 511 Old 06-16-2008, 07:46 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zero the hero View Post

EQing is good for notching spikes in the freequency, but I wouldn't want to use it for amplifying certain frequencies. That will only greatly reduce amp overhead and increase distortion threshold.

BTW, I don't use Eq for the reasons you mentioned. I used Eq once and thought my dynamics went away. I treat the room instead.
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post #98 of 511 Old 06-16-2008, 07:46 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MKtheater View Post

I have a question. With all the new processors and receivers with built in EQ, does the frequency of the speaker matter that much anymore, it seems many are just eqing to flat anyway. Does that mean a speaker with better dynamics, power handling, and soundstage matter more the flat frequency(again EQ). I know if a speaker is way off(frequency) someone can not EQ enough but do we buy such speakers. Also, specs are just a start, we need to listen.

EQing can not correct/change off axis response, distortion, driver integration......

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post #99 of 511 Old 06-16-2008, 07:47 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by quadriverfalls View Post

So, NIN and Pulliamm.... based on your beliefs that a ruler flat FR is your primary determination of what makes a wonderful sounding speaker, how would you rate this speaker? Do you feel it could even compete with what you have?


Looks like +/- 5dB from 50Hz to above 15KHz. Not bad, but definitely not as good as +/- 3dB from 45Hz to 20KHz.
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post #100 of 511 Old 06-16-2008, 07:56 AM
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What about 32Hz - 35 kHz @ +/- 1.5dB, and 27Hz - 45 kHz @ +/- 3dB?



Kappa 8.2i Series II

http://www.infinity-classics.de/infi...-x.1i-x.2i.htm





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post #101 of 511 Old 06-16-2008, 07:58 AM
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Originally Posted by quadriverfalls View Post

Measurements are anechoic and yes, 15 and 30 degree off axis measurements are also included in the above graph....

those off-axis measurements are rediculously impressive, IMO, although I have a hard time believing that is an anechoic measurement due to the bass response. That really looks like room reinforcement on the bottom end, being as its not even a 12db/octave rolloff
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post #102 of 511 Old 06-16-2008, 08:02 AM
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Originally Posted by zero the hero View Post

those off-axis measurements are rediculously impressive, IMO, although I have a hard time believing that is an anechoic measurement due to the bass response. That really looks like room reinforcement on the bottom end, being as its not even a 12db/octave rolloff

Anehoic on all measurements done at the NRC in Canada.

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post #103 of 511 Old 06-16-2008, 08:04 AM
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ok, the suspense is killing me, what is it??
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post #104 of 511 Old 06-16-2008, 08:08 AM
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Originally Posted by zero the hero View Post

ok, the suspense is killing me, what is it??

LOL... I was hoping to get NIN to chime in here first. Especially since Pulliamm gave a politically correct answer rather than saying how he felt these would compare to what he already has. He's not stupid....

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post #105 of 511 Old 06-16-2008, 09:02 AM
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Originally Posted by quadriverfalls View Post

He's not stupid....

You're making an absolute statement, you should have qualified it with IMHO
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post #106 of 511 Old 06-16-2008, 09:05 AM
 
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Originally Posted by quadriverfalls View Post

He's not stupid....

Glad to know that someone has picked up on that (rather obvious) fact. LOL.
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post #107 of 511 Old 06-16-2008, 09:12 AM
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Originally Posted by PULLIAMM View Post

Glad to know that someone has picked up on that (rather obvious) fact. LOL.

ONLY in that you failed to answer my question completely. Otherwise, I can't recall EVER agreeing with you and I'm a pretty smart guy. And, I have been listening to and evaluating audio gear for a good bit longer than you have.... For whatever that's worth.

Oh yeah.... IMHO

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post #108 of 511 Old 06-16-2008, 09:26 AM
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post #109 of 511 Old 06-16-2008, 10:19 AM
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Originally Posted by NIN74 View Post

Clearly you don't understand the basic with high fidelity. So please, show where I contradict myself

I believe I have already done that in previous posts in this very thread. If you don't realize that, then you're confirming what I stated. Congratulations for winning the "most dazed and confused member" award.

John - you crack me up buddy! I love your sense of humor!

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post #110 of 511 Old 06-16-2008, 10:23 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Raymond Leggs View Post

This thread is WAY too amusing and confusing.

In the first corner of the room we have people saying that a speaker that has a flat frequency responce is the best-sounding speaker. But then that raises another issue, it the speakers are completely "flat" sounding, wouldnt that man that the speaker is "shy" SOUNDING across the full fequency range? And for the record there is no such thing as a completely flat speaker.

in the second corner of the room we have the people who are saying that a good speaker Has a bowl shaped FR if plotted out on a graph. But that raises another issue, if that is so then wouln't the speaker be less accurate.

In the third corner we have people who are saying that a speaker that has a boosted midrange is the better speaker. That also raises another issue, if there is too much midrange the speaker wwill sound king of tubby or the voices of certain singers will seem to "pop" out too much.

In the fourth corner of the room we have people who don't care either way as long as the speaker sounds "good".

In the middle of the room we have pulliam ranting about his speakers that have sharply peaked midrange, bass and treble turned up and a High THD.



Don't forget about us guys that say there is no such thing is a "perfect" or "right" speaker. At least not yet, anyway.

If I had to clump myself into one of the already stated groups, I'd be in the one where it doesn't matter as long as the speaker sounds good in your room to your ears. This, of course, is the most logical choice out of the stated categories (other than my own stated in this same post).

Find something you like, test it at home and keep it if you like it. Then just enjoy! Wow...could it really be that simple?

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post #111 of 511 Old 06-16-2008, 10:42 AM
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John - you crack me up buddy! I love your sense of humor!

Thanks.... it's awfully hard sometimes. Some people are so full of themselves in that their very narrow and limited point of view is the ONLY point of view and thus the only correct answer. They leave little or no room what so ever for differing opinions or even a good debate. When they can't intelligently articulate a response, they resort to slinging mud or even better, not answering at all. Me?.... I'd rather be proven wrong and actually LEARN something. but again, that's just IMHO.

So, I just have to bite my tongue sometimes and try to keep it light and humerous. Otherwise, it's like arguing with a drunk....

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post #112 of 511 Old 06-16-2008, 10:51 AM
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Oh yeah.... the FR graph is for the $28,000.00 WILSON Audio WATT/Puppy 7 loudspeakers as measured and tested by SoundStage!
http://www.soundstagemagazine.com/me...on_wattpuppy7/

Good thing PULLIAMM didn't call them crap after looking at their less than ruler flat FR graph. Of course, I guess they could still sound like crap to him. Who knows after all that money he's spent changing speakers every month or so, he could probably have afforded a pair of Wilson's.

With NIN though.... I'm certain he'll find something to disagree with and argue about no matter what.

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post #113 of 511 Old 06-16-2008, 10:53 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by quadriverfalls View Post

Some people are so full of themselves in that their very narrow and limited point of view is the ONLY point of view and thus the only correct answer.

Hey, it's not my fault that I am a superior being. It's a burden.
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They leave little or no room what so ever for differing opinions or even a good debate.

I am right and you are wrong. Neener-neener-neener.
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When they can't intelligently articulate a response, they resort to slinging mud or even better, not answering at all.

Umm...uh...umm...SHUT UP, YOU POOPIE-HAID!!
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Me?.... I'd rather be proven wrong and actually LEARN something.

I was wrong once. Once. I THOUGHT I was wrong, but it turned out I was RIGHT.

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post #114 of 511 Old 06-16-2008, 10:55 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nuance View Post

Don't forget about us guys that say there is no such thing is a "perfect" or "right" speaker. At least not yet, anyway.

If I had to clump myself into one of the already stated groups, I'd be in the one where it doesn't matter as long as the speaker sounds good in your room to your ears. This, of course, is the most logical choice out of the stated categories (other than my own stated in this same post).

Find something you like, test it at home and keep it if you like it. Then just enjoy! Wow...could it really be that simple?

That really is the whole point....and the quest to find what you like can really be fun, and create long threads.

It really doesn't matter what you like, but what you like can definitely be characterized in measurements. After all....this is physics, and not some voodoo science.

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post #115 of 511 Old 06-16-2008, 11:10 AM
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Originally Posted by Paul Scarpelli View Post


I was wrong once. Once. I THOUGHT I was wrong, but it turned out I was RIGHT.

So in this case two wrongs do make a right! You were wrong and you were wrong about being wrong so you were right. I am now ready to run for office.
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post #116 of 511 Old 06-16-2008, 12:06 PM
 
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Originally Posted by quadriverfalls View Post

Oh yeah.... the FR graph is for the $28,000.00 WILSON Audio WATT/Puppy 7 loudspeakers as measured and tested by SoundStage!

That does not surprise me a bit. I have frequently read that Wilsons are vastly overpriced relative to their performance, and the ones I have heard did not impress me much. Pretty cabinets, though.
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post #117 of 511 Old 06-16-2008, 12:14 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by quadriverfalls View Post

Oh yeah.... the FR graph is for the $28,000.00 WILSON Audio WATT/Puppy 7 loudspeakers as measured and tested by SoundStage!
http://www.soundstagemagazine.com/me...on_wattpuppy7/

Good thing PULLIAMM didn't call them crap after looking at their less than ruler flat FR graph. Of course, I guess they could still sound like crap to him. Who knows after all that money he's spent changing speakers every month or so, he could probably have afforded a pair of Wilson's.

With NIN though.... I'm certain he'll find something to disagree with and argue about no matter what.


Yes, I have listen to some Wilson speakers, would NEVER trade my speaker for that kind of....sound.
The measurments don't really look that hot, from what I know.

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post #118 of 511 Old 06-16-2008, 12:15 PM
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Originally Posted by PULLIAMM View Post

That does not surprise me a bit. I have frequently read that Wilsons are vastly overpriced relative to their performance, and the ones I have heard did not impress me much. Pretty cabinets, though.

You are kidding right?

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post #119 of 511 Old 06-16-2008, 12:17 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nuance View Post

I believe I have already done that in previous posts in this very thread. If you don't realize that, then you're confirming what I stated. Congratulations for winning the "most dazed and confused member" award.

John - you crack me up buddy! I love your sense of humor!


Yes, you have proven you don't even understand the basic about high fidelity. To say things like there is no such thing is a "perfect" or "right" speaker provs you don't even understand that simple fact that there is different levels of wrong. According to your "thinking", all speakers are equal good, something most serious audiophile understand is not correct.

Sound and video is not magic, it is pure physics. Physics that can be magical
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post #120 of 511 Old 06-16-2008, 12:32 PM
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Originally Posted by NIN74 View Post

According to your "thinking", all speakers are equal good, something most serious audiophile understand is not correct.

Your reading comprehension leaves very much to be desired - NO ONE has stated anything remotely approaching the above. You are creating a straw man to argue against - have fun with that.
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