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post #1 of 511 Old 06-10-2008, 02:32 PM - Thread Starter
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Well the threads title say it all. Are you looking for speakers that are correct and neutral? If not, why and what are you looking for?

Sound and video is not magic, it is pure physics. Physics that can be magical
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post #2 of 511 Old 06-10-2008, 03:34 PM
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Originally Posted by NIN74 View Post

Are you looking for speakers that are correct and neutral?

Yes.

I also don't wear dark sunglasses in an art museum or put ketchup on gourmet food. But hey. That's just me. Do whatever floats your boat. The best speakers are the ones YOU like.

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post #3 of 511 Old 06-10-2008, 03:40 PM
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Originally Posted by NIN74 View Post

Are you looking for speakers that are correct and neutral? If not, why and what are you looking for?

I like it when speakers are incorrect. As for neutrality... I must say "as long as it matches the decor".

As for what I am looking for... enlightenment... inspiration... Hayden Panettiere...

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Just make sure your toys are over 18.


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post #4 of 511 Old 06-10-2008, 03:50 PM
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I like it when speakers are incorrect. As for neutrality... I must say "as long as it matches the decor".

As for what I am looking for... enlightenment... inspiration... Hayden Panettiere...

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post #5 of 511 Old 06-10-2008, 04:15 PM - Thread Starter
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Nobody interested in what really is hifi?

Sound and video is not magic, it is pure physics. Physics that can be magical
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post #6 of 511 Old 06-10-2008, 04:23 PM
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Originally Posted by NIN74 View Post

Nobody interested in what really is hifi?

I'm unsure if I'm more confused by this question or the original... Sorry

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post #7 of 511 Old 06-10-2008, 04:56 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NIN74 View Post

Nobody interested in what really is hifi?

Yeah but this is an old and recurrent discussion.

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post #8 of 511 Old 06-10-2008, 05:01 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NIN74 View Post

Well the threads title say it all. Are you looking for speakers that are correct and neutral? If not, why and what are you looking for?

Quote:
Originally Posted by NIN74 View Post

Nobody interested in what really is hifi?

As a designer I'm looking for the speaker to impart as little character of its own on the recording. Of course EVERY speaker is a compromise in some regard, let alone the spaces we place our speakers in, so I also want those compromises to be non-offensive, or more so sins of ommision rather than commission.

When I play many different types of recordings made in different ways and in different spaces, I want the character of each recording and space to be communicated. If the speaker imparts too much character of its own, all of the recordings and spaces will start to sound more similar than different. There are of course many other aspects to what we might subjectively call "neutral," but that perspective is important.

The reality is that from a measurement standpoint for any speaker that isn't being listened to in an anechoic chamber at one specific location, we can't define absolutely neutral. We can draw our own conclusions as to one particular measurement being closer or further from ideal, but that one measurement can easily be trumped by another which is far from ideal.

I would say a better place to start such discussion would be with the question: What is neutral sound?

Mark Seaton
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post #9 of 511 Old 06-10-2008, 05:12 PM
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I just want a speaker that sounds good on ALL of my music,despite what other people say about my setup.

One shall stand... One Shall Fall... - Optimus Prime
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post #10 of 511 Old 06-10-2008, 05:14 PM
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Originally Posted by david-me View Post

As for what I am looking for... enlightenment... inspiration... Hayden Panettiere...

Dude....she isn't 18 yet! Read your sig!

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post #11 of 511 Old 06-10-2008, 05:23 PM
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As for what I am looking for... enlightenment... inspiration... Hayden Panettiere...

I prefer Kim Lansing from G4 to Hayden panettiere, wait I'd rather have layla kayleigh too.

One shall stand... One Shall Fall... - Optimus Prime
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post #12 of 511 Old 06-10-2008, 05:28 PM
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Originally Posted by Raymond Leggs View Post

I prefer Kim Lansing from G4 to Hayden panettiere, wait I'd rather have layla kayleigh too.

See, now you've hurt Kim Kardashian's feelings.
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post #13 of 511 Old 06-10-2008, 07:04 PM
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See, now you've hurt Kim Kardashian's feelings.

lol, I could add her for a four-way. and I am NOT talking about speakers

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post #14 of 511 Old 06-10-2008, 07:27 PM
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Quote:
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I prefer Kim Lansing from G4 to Hayden panettiere, wait I'd rather have layla kayleigh too.

I think some on this forum would prefer Jim to Kim but maybe that's just me.

Tony

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post #15 of 511 Old 06-10-2008, 07:35 PM
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Well now that I am totally attached to my very neutral and correct speakers. I would say I will only settle for pure neutrality. Alot of people though want all of their recordings to sound nice - and want a colored speaker. However, having neutral speakers forces you to listen to only higher quality recording and formats for that matter.

It's like making the jump from solid state guitar amplifiers to tube amps - there is no going back... Not for me anyway.

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post #16 of 511 Old 06-11-2008, 12:17 AM
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I have to go with correct speakers, in-tune pianos and vocalist who didn't win a cheap reality tv contest.
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post #17 of 511 Old 06-11-2008, 12:33 AM
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Oh no no, the best are those that have freq curve like a salad bowl. Yes yes...
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post #18 of 511 Old 06-11-2008, 01:28 AM
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Dude....she isn't 18 yet! Read your sig!

She is almost 19 actually

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post #19 of 511 Old 06-11-2008, 06:12 AM
 
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Yes. My speakers are neutral and correct. Think of it this way: the wrong glasses prescription might make certain things look better, but will make most things look far worse. The same is true of colored speakers.
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post #20 of 511 Old 06-11-2008, 06:21 AM
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Yes. My speakers are neutral and correct. [...snip...] The same is true of colored speakers.

Well then, what color ARE your speakers?

John W.
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post #21 of 511 Old 06-11-2008, 06:27 AM
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Originally Posted by mvwhiting_83 View Post

Well now that I am totally attached to my very neutral and correct speakers. I would say I will only settle for pure neutrality. Alot of people though want all of their recordings to sound nice - and want a colored speaker. However, having neutral speakers forces you to listen to only higher quality recording and formats for that matter.

So, have you actually measured the FR of your speakers in YOUR ROOM? I'd love to see how "neutral and correct" they measure there.

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It's like making the jump from solid state guitar amplifiers to tube amps - there is no going back... Not for me anyway.

Wait a minute.... you prefer tube amps loaded with distortion and coloration over solid state amps which are more neutral and accurate?!?

I'm confused.

John W.
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post #22 of 511 Old 06-11-2008, 07:38 AM
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Do you like neutral and correct women?

"I've found that when you want to know the truth about someone that someone is probably the last person you should ask." - Gregory House
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post #23 of 511 Old 06-11-2008, 07:42 AM
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Do you like neutral and correct women?

I like moist women or was that most women-I can't remember.
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post #24 of 511 Old 06-11-2008, 07:46 AM
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So, have you actually measured the FR of your speakers in YOUR ROOM? I'd love to see how "neutral and correct" they measure there.

Too true, not to mention that FR varies with SPL and most speakers will have one driver that will start compressing before the others which skews the FR at higher output. And unless you have a very well treated room, the sound is going to vary from one spot to the next.

A nice flat FR is a good start, but it's just one of many, many things that contributes to a good sounding speaker.
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post #25 of 511 Old 06-11-2008, 08:23 AM
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I think there are two valid approaches to loudspeaker design. One, transparent window to the recorded event, and two, loudspeakers that go for a pleasing "house" sound. Of course, whatever that house sound may be, it won't please everyone, hence we have some 200+ loudspeaker producers.

You have to remember that speakers that pursue goal #1 are very revealing of upstream components and source material. Loudspeakers of this caliber are apt to sound like utter dog crap with the wrong components, and they certainly won't be flattering to your beloved, but questionably recorded sources. Because of this, hi-fidelity two channel systems are usually the result of a long and expensive series of experiments, matching the right components with the right loudspeaker. In the end, this system may create magic in the listening space, but it is also going to be limited in the material it plays back, as it will be just as picky about sources as it was components.

I love the 18th and 19th century masters as much as anyone, but having spent the better part of the 80s in a hardcore punk band I also have a predilection for 80s underground music. I would much rather listen to Black Flag on a pair of $1k/pair speakers than I would through a pair of that are going to expose every flaw and blemish and in the end make the material practically unlistenable.

And quadriverfalls hit the nail on the head. A lot of people who pursue hi-fidelity end up with sterile sounding systems that call attention to the fact that it is a reproduction and not the real thing. Tube amps are still in use after all these years because they add an analog factor back into the equation and produce something that sounds a little less like a facsimile to our ears.

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post #26 of 511 Old 06-11-2008, 08:39 AM
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I would like completely neutral speakers and electronics ideally.

Concerning the old tube vs solidstate argument, or vibrant/lush vs clinical sterile. Let me say that I've heard a tube set-up or 2 and I enjoyed them. I've heard more SS gear, some I enjoyed and some not. This is my take on it...

I look at music and sound as art. Tube gear is great for the brushes and paints. For using known attributes to get rich tones and colors that the artist can use to create a certain artistic vision. However if you are going to create a painting you want to start with a blank canvas, which most tube gear is not. You would not want to start with certain colors, which may or may not be appropriate for your next piece, already on the canvas. I'm not saying that SS gear is in any way perfectly neutral either, just that on average it is better for my canvas.


Tubes can sound great and are beautiful in the creation of the sound such as guitar and bass amps, microphones, tube compressors, etc. SS is better at the duplication/reproduction of the art as intended IMHOP. The above also applies to speakers, for me, among other things.


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post #27 of 511 Old 06-12-2008, 07:19 PM
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^^^ You really nailed it.
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post #28 of 511 Old 06-13-2008, 05:15 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mlankton View Post

I think there are two valid approaches to loudspeaker design. One, transparent window to the recorded event, and two, loudspeakers that go for a pleasing "house" sound. Of course, whatever that house sound may be, it won't please everyone, hence we have some 200+ loudspeaker producers.

Well put. Those of us wanting complete transparency need look no further than excellent but affordable studio monitors (such as Alesis) driven by equally excellent but affordable electronics (such as Cambridge Azur.) Such a system achieves complete accuracy and neutrality, making it impossible to improve upon in that regard.
Conversely, those wanting a particular type of "house sound" may have to spend vastly more to get it, on both speakers and electronics.
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post #29 of 511 Old 06-13-2008, 05:45 AM
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Ya I'd like neutral and correct speakers to start with, then I'll EQ a tad (just a little) to get the sound I like.

But that begs the question, what is "correct and neutral"?

It seems like the old criteria of +/- 3 dB from 20 to 20k hz isn't enough anymore as even budget monitors for $200 can boast +/- 3 dB down to say 60hz and then if you blend in your sub correctly (some help from an Audyssey like feature never hurts) and you have a very smooth FR from top to bottom. But even with that people aren't happy. They complain of warm, forward, boomy or bright, even when the FR is within that +/- window.

Perhaps to start at "correct and neutral" speakers need to be +/- 1dB throughout their useable FR range? So we can take them home, put them in our crappy rooms, and have a bunch of peaks and valleys
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post #30 of 511 Old 06-13-2008, 07:46 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mark Seaton View Post

I would say a better place to start such discussion would be with the question: What is neutral sound?


Well, neutral sound, according to me, is when the speaker only reproduce the sound it is feed, not adding coloration on it own. How to find out this is harder, but one can get really close.

Sound and video is not magic, it is pure physics. Physics that can be magical
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