The Official Usher Audio Owners Thread - Page 18 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
Baselworld is only a few weeks away. Getting the latest news is easy, Click Here for info on how to join the Watchuseek.com newsletter list. Follow our team for updates featuring event coverage, new product unveilings, watch industry news & more!


Forum Jump: 
 2Likes
Reply
 
Thread Tools
post #511 of 520 Old 12-13-2015, 07:27 AM
Member
 
Griller's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Taipei, Taiwan
Posts: 93
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 6 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Quote:
Originally Posted by deetothevee View Post
Ya, actually I shouldn't have coloured the counter in grey lol, that is not a wall rather a 37 inch high counter. But ya it's a tough area. It's a condo in downtown Toronto, so no room for a music room, plus I like to play music for the whole condo. Maybe 30% of listening is in the "Listening Position". Maybe I'd do more if listening fatigue was dramatically reduced!

I've spoken to Accoustic Sciences and Vicoustics. Waiting on the latter to supply a plan for me. It's pretty clear now that the bass traps is what will do most of the work that I need. The iso tube traps and the MegaTraps are looking good at the moment. A lot of this is function and design too as it's in my living room of my condo. It's fun though.

I'll let you know what I decide on.
Any chance you can rotate everything 90 degrees and put the speakers on the window wall?
Griller is online now  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #512 of 520 Old 01-02-2016, 07:25 PM
AVS Special Member
 
raaj's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: Near the lovely City by the Bay
Posts: 2,954
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 51 Post(s)
Liked: 75
Folks,

I have a potential deal to get a gently used dealer demo floor sample pair of the Dancer Mini 1 Diamond, with all original boxes and full factory warranty.

Cosmetically the speakers are almost flawless (maybe slight dulling of the cabinet veneer). Chances are the speakers are a few months to less than a year old.

What would be a good price to offer to the dealer?
raaj is offline  
post #513 of 520 Old 01-15-2016, 08:19 PM
Member
 
Griller's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Taipei, Taiwan
Posts: 93
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 6 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Quote:
Originally Posted by raaj View Post
Folks,

I have a potential deal to get a gently used dealer demo floor sample pair of the Dancer Mini 1 Diamond, with all original boxes and full factory warranty.

Cosmetically the speakers are almost flawless (maybe slight dulling of the cabinet veneer). Chances are the speakers are a few months to less than a year old.

What would be a good price to offer to the dealer?
If I could get 30% off retail I would consider it a great bargain and buy without blinking. But I would accept 20% off for a demo pair with only visual defects depending on how bad they were. If you are completely in love with them I would say 15% unless you are prepared to go used. But that means shipping and no warranty.

Perhaps those with more retail experience can pipe up, but in my experience wholesale is half of retail but the dealers have their own costs and have to make at least some profit so they are there the next time you need them. So 50% cost + 15% overhead + 5-10% reinvestment into the business, 15% commissions, the rest is profit. My overhead is probably low because I am in manufacturing and not retail, which has higher rents. Sometimes you need to move inventory and just carrying old inventory has a cost so you are willing to take a hit just to move it. At least you can make some money off it.
Griller is online now  
post #514 of 520 Old 01-16-2016, 05:30 PM
AVS Special Member
 
raaj's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: Near the lovely City by the Bay
Posts: 2,954
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 51 Post(s)
Liked: 75
Quote:
Originally Posted by Griller View Post
If I could get 30% off retail I would consider it a great bargain and buy without blinking. But I would accept 20% off for a demo pair with only visual defects depending on how bad they were. If you are completely in love with them I would say 15% unless you are prepared to go used. But that means shipping and no warranty.

Perhaps those with more retail experience can pipe up, but in my experience wholesale is half of retail but the dealers have their own costs and have to make at least some profit so they are there the next time you need them. So 50% cost + 15% overhead + 5-10% reinvestment into the business, 15% commissions, the rest is profit. My overhead is probably low because I am in manufacturing and not retail, which has higher rents. Sometimes you need to move inventory and just carrying old inventory has a cost so you are willing to take a hit just to move it. At least you can make some money off it.
Thanks Griller! I was offered ~20% off MSRP on the speakers that are 6+ months old and have ~150 hours of playtime on the floor. This puts me looking at above the $3000 price threshold, and while these speakers sounded really good, I feel that I need to audtion other candidates in this price bracket before deciding. (I've been looking at <$2500/pr range before).

Anyway, I've decided to place my purchase plans on hold for a few months as I'm in the middle of a search for a new rental, and not sure how much room I'd have to play with for speakers.
raaj is offline  
post #515 of 520 Old 01-17-2016, 02:05 AM
Member
 
Griller's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Taipei, Taiwan
Posts: 93
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 6 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Quote:
Originally Posted by raaj View Post
This puts me looking at above the $3000 price threshold, and while these speakers sounded really good, I feel that I need to audtion other candidates in this price bracket before deciding. (I've been looking at <$2500/pr range before).

Anyway, I've decided to place my purchase plans on hold for a few months as I'm in the middle of a search for a new rental, and not sure how much room I'd have to play with for speakers.
In my experience Ushers punch above their weight but you need to hear that for yourself. I think the Mini 1's are about as flexible a tower speaker as you are going to find. They won't overwhelm a small room but can fill a bigger room. If you are in apartments and move frequently I would recommend speakers that are flexible. I am retired military and moved many, many times. I found that monitors are the most flexible. For Usher that would be the Mini-X or my favorite the CP-777. Usher calls the 777 a monitor but it's a beast of a monitor. Ultimately it was too difficult of a placement for me with three kids and I went with the Mini-2's.

A roof is more important than a speaker but if you change apartments often then you should consider speakers that do NOT weigh hundreds of pounds and are flexible regarding room size. That means smaller towers and monitors and supplement with a sub.

If you are looking at 2500 range I recommend looking at the Magnepan 1.7 a very good speaker, or the Vandersteens, and GoldenEar has received some very good press but I admit I have not heard them myself. They do have a ribbon tweeter which I really like.

What are you driving them with? All of these will benefit from a quality amp. The Maggies will require some serious power.
Griller is online now  
post #516 of 520 Old 01-17-2016, 02:26 AM
Member
 
Griller's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Taipei, Taiwan
Posts: 93
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 6 Post(s)
Liked: 10
So I finally managed to get back to the dealer and listened to the P-711, P-717 and compared them to the Mini-1. The P-711 has a definite haze and the treble is definitely veiled, far more than I was expecting. I think I am ruined by listening to my Dancers for so long. At any rate, I gave the P-711's a pass and instead ordered an AU-8500 integrated. I really wish they had digital inputs but I am going to use it as a straight amp for the HT. The new P-line of speakers is not bad but the Dancer line is so superior I can't come up with a good use case for the P-line in my situation.
Griller is online now  
post #517 of 520 Old 01-18-2016, 10:38 PM
AVS Special Member
 
raaj's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: Near the lovely City by the Bay
Posts: 2,954
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 51 Post(s)
Liked: 75
Quote:
Originally Posted by Griller View Post
In my experience Ushers punch above their weight but you need to hear that for yourself. I think the Mini 1's are about as flexible a tower speaker as you are going to find. They won't overwhelm a small room but can fill a bigger room.

<...>

If you are looking at 2500 range I recommend looking at the Magnepan 1.7 a very good speaker, or the Vandersteens, and GoldenEar has received some very good press but I admit I have not heard them myself. They do have a ribbon tweeter which I really like.

What are you driving them with? All of these will benefit from a quality amp. The Maggies will require some serious power.
I cannot accommodate the Magnepans due to practically zero wall clearance requirement. I've heard GoldenEar Triton 5 and was very impressed with it, but I did not feel that I was markedly improving upon my Selah Audio SA-1 monitors by going with the Triton 5. Not so with the Usher Mini 1 towers, as I immediately felt that they would be an upgrade from my SA-1.

I currently have an Onkyo TX-NR818 rated at 165W/ch, powering my front L/R monitors and an SVS SB12-NSD sealed sub. On a related note, the Mini 1 DMD towers are rated at 90W power handling @ 87dB sensitivity, as per the spec sheet, yet the dealer display pair was being powered by a Parasound Halo amp rated at 100W/ch. I was listening seated at ~8 ft. from the speakers, roughly at 40% max gain on the Parasound, and the sound was big and lifelike in the dealer's quite large open space showroom. Not sure how the speakers are only rated at 90W power handling.
raaj is offline  
post #518 of 520 Old 01-20-2016, 05:28 PM
Member
 
Griller's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Taipei, Taiwan
Posts: 93
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 6 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Quote:
Originally Posted by raaj View Post
I cannot accommodate the Magnepans due to practically zero wall clearance requirement. I've heard GoldenEar Triton 5 and was very impressed with it, but I did not feel that I was markedly improving upon my Selah Audio SA-1 monitors by going with the Triton 5. Not so with the Usher Mini 1 towers, as I immediately felt that they would be an upgrade from my SA-1.

I currently have an Onkyo TX-NR818 rated at 165W/ch, powering my front L/R monitors and an SVS SB12-NSD sealed sub. On a related note, the Mini 1 DMD towers are rated at 90W power handling @ 87dB sensitivity, as per the spec sheet, yet the dealer display pair was being powered by a Parasound Halo amp rated at 100W/ch. I was listening seated at ~8 ft. from the speakers, roughly at 40% max gain on the Parasound, and the sound was big and lifelike in the dealer's quite large open space showroom. Not sure how the speakers are only rated at 90W power handling.
I put very little stock in AVR power ratings. AVR's are notorious for overstating their capabilities and flat out misleading measurements. I've never heard an AVR that can match the power output of an equally spec'd dedicated amp or integrated amp. Onkyo is one of the better AVR's out there, but I would try to get an AVR with pre-amp outs so you can hook up a dedicated amp later. Do you have pre-amp outs on yours? I have a Marantz AVR I use for my HT and pour my fronts into a dedicated amp via the pre-amp outputs and it is a night and day difference. I am slowly building up my amplification (2 channels at a time) for more channels so the AVR is just the control center. I could buy a monster 7 channel amp but I'm not sure I want to manhandle that kind of a beast.

As for speaker ratings, I don't pay attention to speaker power ratings, they aren't really much help. This is just to avoid overheating or overdriving the speakers. If you use your ears it should not be a problem. The challenge, from what I have seen, is using too LITTLE power and then driving the amp into clipping, causing distortion and overstressing and ultimately blowing the speaker. I have some experience in this. (ahem) So now I am a proponent for mono block amplifier designs and quality power. I now prefer to see 8 ohm and 4 ohm power ratings. If the amp doubles down, you are over halfway to a great amp. It's not a guarantee, but if they spend that much money on their windings then they probably have paid attention to the rest of the circuit too. AVR's often are discouraged from 4 ohm speakers and do not provide ratings. There is a reason for that. I have seen 55 watt amps drive speakers that were enormous with ease. It just depends on the amp. But if you are concerned about having enough power a general rule of thumb is to have an amp that is rated twice the rating of the speaker. I believe speakers are rated at amplifier RMS power, which is half of clipping if memory serves.

It sounds like the Mini-1's are a good fit for you but I would check the retail price on them elsewhere just to confirm you're getting a good deal if you decide to go with them. I haven't priced them lately, but for SQ Sonus Fabers were similar. Dali Helikon's were good too. Again with the ribbon tweeter for them. Dynaudios are fabulous but I don't think they have anything mortals can afford.

Good luck and would like to hear your impressions on your hunt! I hope your new listening room is GREAT!

Aloha,

Griller
Griller is online now  
post #519 of 520 Old 02-02-2016, 05:03 PM
Member
 
Mjorgensen's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Omaha NE.
Posts: 68
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 7 Post(s)
Liked: 10
What have any of you users of the Be-718 found to be the best, serious toe in or much less toe in? My room is 16' wide 20' long and 8.5' high. Speakers are 45" from the front wall and 40.5" from the sides. Listening position is 10' from left and right speakers.

Thanks
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	20160202_143049.jpg
Views:	19
Size:	175.4 KB
ID:	1226609   Click image for larger version

Name:	20160202_143130.jpg
Views:	16
Size:	173.4 KB
ID:	1226617  

Mark Jorgensen
Mjorgensen is offline  
post #520 of 520 Old Today, 07:13 AM
Member
 
Griller's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Taipei, Taiwan
Posts: 93
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 6 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mjorgensen View Post
What have any of you users of the Be-718 found to be the best, serious toe in or much less toe in? My room is 16' wide 20' long and 8.5' high. Speakers are 45" from the front wall and 40.5" from the sides. Listening position is 10' from left and right speakers.

Thanks
I have my L/R main speakers pointed at a point about 1-2 feet behind my head centered in an equilateral triangle in front of the speakers. But I use my setup for music much more than HT. It's used for both.

Ensure your speakers are the same distance away from the sitting position. Believe it or not, centimeters matter. Be as exact as you can. Millimeters matter but people start thinking I'm crazy when I say that.

Toe in/out is a balance between imaging and soundstaging. Toed in you get more specific imaging but toed further out soundstaging will become broader, at the expense of imaging. It's a dance between separation and toe.

Everyone has different preferences and they can change over time. As far as spacing your L/R fronts, I would say as wide as you can handle. If this is strictly a 5.1 setup then the center image is less important as you have a center channel. For us 2-channel guys we separate the speakers to the point where the center image collapses, then move back until we are satisfied with center image solidity. Myself, I just moved my mains closer together as the drum kits were just too wide. Unless drummers have 6-foot long arms, which they don't.

As far as the BE718's, I keep them slightly off me because when they are pointed directly at me I feel the tweeter beams too much and is fatiguing. Then DMD tweeters are much more aggressive in this regard. Pointed slightly behind me and not at reference levels I can listen for hours, or until my bride decides there is something that needs my attention.

Speaker setup will depend on your specific requirements but the above is a general guideline. I would setup according to music requirements for maximum flexibility and you may listen to more music than you expect after you have a solid, linked soundstage.

My $0.02. Hope you find it useful.

Happy listening!
Griller is online now  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
Reply Speakers

Tags
Onkyo Tx Nr929 9 2 Channel Network A V Receiver , Onkyo Tx Nr616
Gear in this thread

Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page


Forum Jump: 

Posting Rules  
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off