The Official Magnepan Owners Thread - Page 122 - AVS Forum
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post #3631 of 3828 Old 06-25-2014, 11:47 AM
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Thanks Don,
I'm trying but I already had for months...
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post #3632 of 3828 Old 06-25-2014, 12:43 PM
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Originally Posted by teiki arii View Post
Hello everybody,
does anybody know what updates have been made in 3.7i vs 3.7? I e-mailed the Magnepan seller in France but nobody answered. I don't have Magnepan mail in U.S.A. so I cannot even hope to update mines.
Any help is welcome.
Best regards...
Even if you could talk to them, they will not be specific on what was changed, the reviewers can't get a straight answer, they want to keep it proprietary and mysterious. There's some discussion here:

http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=122638.0
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post #3633 of 3828 Old 06-25-2014, 03:39 PM
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Thank you KKM,
so, no hope to update ours ourselves... Far East from Factory...
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post #3634 of 3828 Old 06-25-2014, 05:18 PM
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I'm trying to repair the tweeters on a pair of MG-Ib speakers. I have the tweeter wire laid down on both speakers. If I can get the wires soldered, I'll be in business to test the speakers. But I've been absolutely defeated by the process of soldering the wires to the terminals. Has anybody done this? How did you do it?
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post #3635 of 3828 Old 06-25-2014, 07:27 PM
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Calypte: I never operated on Magnepan but I did upgrade my Carver Amazing Platinum Speakers. A friend sent his into Magnepan and they did an upgrade too them at a minimal charge.
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post #3636 of 3828 Old 06-25-2014, 08:36 PM
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Originally Posted by Calypte View Post
I'm trying to repair the tweeters on a pair of MG-Ib speakers. I have the tweeter wire laid down on both speakers. If I can get the wires soldered, I'll be in business to test the speakers. But I've been absolutely defeated by the process of soldering the wires to the terminals. Has anybody done this? How did you do it?
Are the wires aluminum or copper? If copper I am not sure why you'd be having problems at the terminals. If aluminum you'd probably have to braze them; I would probably just crimp them instead.

Long ago I had a break in the middle of a panel (long, sad story involving a wall shelf that broke and dumped books into my MG-I's). I found some sort of silver paste goo stuff and "glued" them together, let it dry, then put a spot of epoxy on top. Lasted several more years until I upgraded to my then and now MG-IIIa's. Now I'd probably use conductive epoxy we use to attach chips to packages and hybrid substrates. Or ship 'em back to Magnepan to do it right.

BTW good luck repairing the ribbon tweeter. Anyone who has managed it has more patience and better eyes than I! I sorta' got there once but it was a stop-gap until a new one arrived.

"After silence, that which best expresses the inexpressible, is music" - Aldous Huxley
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post #3637 of 3828 Old 06-25-2014, 11:11 PM
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Well I am officially a convert! 1.7 Magnepans in the house.......... loving them so far...... and I am sure this will be years to come! Detail and image come to mind and a lot better bass response.
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post #3638 of 3828 Old 06-25-2014, 11:15 PM
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Originally Posted by DonH50 View Post
Are the wires aluminum or copper? If copper I am not sure why you'd be having problems at the terminals. If aluminum you'd probably have to braze them; I would probably just crimp them instead.

Long ago I had a break in the middle of a panel (long, sad story involving a wall shelf that broke and dumped books into my MG-I's). I found some sort of silver paste goo stuff and "glued" them together, let it dry, then put a spot of epoxy on top. Lasted several more years until I upgraded to my then and now MG-IIIa's. Now I'd probably use conductive epoxy we use to attach chips to packages and hybrid substrates. Or ship 'em back to Magnepan to do it right.

BTW good luck repairing the ribbon tweeter. Anyone who has managed it has more patience and better eyes than I! I sorta' got there once but it was a stop-gap until a new one arrived.
Thank you for your reply. Magnepan won't repair speakers this old (1985). The MG-Ib's tweeters are 32 gauge aluminum wires. After repeated tries, I finally got the wires soldered to the terminals well enough to pass signal, and the speakers sound great. This is the first time I've heard them in 12-13 years. But my soldering job isn't something I'd want to show off to my friends. I have a pair 1.6s ahead of me (quasi-ribbon tweeters). I repaired the older speakers first, because there was more online info, and I already had the kit from Magnepan.
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post #3639 of 3828 Old 06-26-2014, 05:42 AM
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My experience is the solder connection won't last but hopefully will hold for a while. Solder/Al tends to corrode and solder tends to not "stick" to Al so it hard to get a good joint (electrically and mechanically). That is why I suggested using a crimp connector. There are special formulations to connect copper/brass to Al but I have had mixed success with them in the past.

Interesting on the repair comment; I got a quote just a few years ago to refurb my "new" 1984 MG-IIIa's but have not asked recently. Maybe with all the new models rolled out they've dropped support for the very old, sad. When mine die I'll be heartbroken, can't afford a new pair now.

"After silence, that which best expresses the inexpressible, is music" - Aldous Huxley
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post #3640 of 3828 Old 06-26-2014, 11:17 AM
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Odd question on the Maggie 1.7, just curious on the speaker terminals on why no matter Left or Right Speaker or 1-2 the speaker terminal is on the inside of one speaker and the outside of the other. Example Speaker 1 has the speaker terminal on the back to the right side, and speaker 2 on my right has the speaker term ail on the outside on inside.. Seems odd, is there a reason for that?
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post #3641 of 3828 Old 06-26-2014, 01:19 PM
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Originally Posted by DonH50 View Post
My experience is the solder connection won't last but hopefully will hold for a while. Solder/Al tends to corrode and solder tends to not "stick" to Al so it hard to get a good joint (electrically and mechanically). That is why I suggested using a crimp connector. There are special formulations to connect copper/brass to Al but I have had mixed success with them in the past.

Interesting on the repair comment; I got a quote just a few years ago to refurb my "new" 1984 MG-IIIa's but have not asked recently. Maybe with all the new models rolled out they've dropped support for the very old, sad. When mine die I'll be heartbroken, can't afford a new pair now.
Magnepan provides a sealant to put on the soldered connections, to prevent corrosion. The original connections are solid. The exposed aluminum wire itself corrodes, and it slowly disintegrates. When I removed the sock and examined the speakers, I could see breaks in the aluminum wire (genius says, "Aha, that's why the tweeters weren't working!"), and when I cleaned off the mylar in preparation for laying down new wires, the tweeter wires literally fell apart. The woofer-mid has a much heavier gauge of wire. A common failing of the woofer-md is delamination (failure of the glue) in the middle, and often the loops start to curl up at the ends. The curling is apparently climate-related, with humid marine climates being worse than dry climates. I live in a dry climate, and the woofer-mid wires are fine, although one of my 1.6s is delaminating and will need to be repaired as part of my next project. The work to restore these speakers no longer frightens me, except for the soldering part. The work took four afternoons for the MG-Ib pair.
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post #3642 of 3828 Old 06-26-2014, 01:48 PM
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Calypte: Interesting as I read some one gave the Maggies are horrible review because of the delaminating issue with a pair of 1.7s. Regardless no matter what type of speakers you have, you can have cone issues tweeter issues etc, humidity can do a very bad number on any speaker. Cool and dry is the best way to keep any speaker living longer. Very happy to have these 1.7 as they have much more bass than I am use to hearing out of a maggie.
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post #3643 of 3828 Old 06-26-2014, 03:43 PM
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First I heard of delamination on a pair of 1.7's; they are awfully new for that to happen. I suspect manufacturing issues. Delamination has been an issue for decades but virtually always on older pairs (5 - 10 year and up). No rattle on my current (1984) pair, knock on wood, but they were in storage for a long time. They have been played hard since, however.

I thought the bass wires of my old speaker were Cu and tweeter Al but I am not sure.

There are several aftermarket folk who will rebuild old Maggies, and the MUG site has (had, anyway) several links to "how-to" guides.

Lead-free solder is also fraught with issues, one reason the military actually forbids its use on key hardware.

"After silence, that which best expresses the inexpressible, is music" - Aldous Huxley
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post #3644 of 3828 Old 06-26-2014, 07:54 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DonH50 View Post
First I heard of delamination on a pair of 1.7's; they are awfully new for that to happen. I suspect manufacturing issues. Delamination has been an issue for decades but virtually always on older pairs (5 - 10 year and up). No rattle on my current (1984) pair, knock on wood, but they were in storage for a long time. They have been played hard since, however.

I thought the bass wires of my old speaker were Cu and tweeter Al but I am not sure.

There are several aftermarket folk who will rebuild old Maggies, and the MUG site has (had, anyway) several links to "how-to" guides.

Lead-free solder is also fraught with issues, one reason the military actually forbids its use on key hardware.
Magnepan uses silver solder and that's what they supply in the repair kits. I think the woofer-mid wires on my MG-Ib pair are copper. Elsewhere on the web, I've seen the claim that Magneplanars that are idle for long periods (e.g. boxed) are more prone to developing problems than speakers in regular use. I can't argue the point, but I played my 1.6s frequently in my old home (I had two systems), and one delaminated anyway. On latest test, a tweeter has also conked out. Before I began work on the Ib pair, I played them to ascertain their current status. Both tweeters were defunct, and I heard a buzz (new) from the right speaker. But in two days of play since repairing them, I haven't heard the buzz. I don't want to install new socks and then discover that the buzz is still there.
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post #3645 of 3828 Old 06-27-2014, 06:09 AM
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Well, silver solder is a pain too. I'd forgotten what was in a kit, been decades. I always used heat clips to make sure the wire at the panel did not get too hot.

The glue holding wires to panels dries out over time. I am not sure why storage would be worse or better, it depends upon the storage conditions. I have heard the same claim but always suspected it was simply because the glue dries out regardless but when first powered up after storage that is when the adhesive is most likely to crack and let the wires loose to buzz.

Several times over the years I repaired one break only to have another show up a few days later. I finally left the socks off my MG-I's for a good six months or so. It was a pain to get the dust off the panels by then, natch, so I don't recommend it. Of course there was a group saying to leave the socks off always for better sound, but I did not hear a difference. Dust accumulation would certainly cause problems and cleaning the thin tweeter panels (let alone the ribbon) was scary.

Sounds like you're back in play, great! - Don

"After silence, that which best expresses the inexpressible, is music" - Aldous Huxley
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post #3646 of 3828 Old 06-27-2014, 09:22 AM
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I have heard the same claim but always suspected it was simply because the glue dries out regardless but when first powered up after storage that is when the adhesive is most likely to crack and let the wires loose to buzz.
I think you're right on this one.
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post #3647 of 3828 Old 06-27-2014, 09:40 AM
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If it's the same 1.7 review I read that was referred to above, where the guy gave a low score "because they delaminate": he was NOT saying the 1.7s have delaminated, he was saying they might delaminate like other (older) Maggies have sometimes been known to, and thus he was lowering the score.

I hope nobody pays any attention to somebody who thinks like that and lives their life like that. I'm surprised he could even review Maggies lying in bed in a padded room, and using dangerous electricity that might hurt him someday.

BTW, they are excellent for HT, at least for fronts and maybe more if you can get the wall-spacing far enough. However, until you have actually measured the distortion they have in the lower bass, below the typical BM XO, do not believe you don't need a sub(s) like some Maggie-freaks say. If you don't measure the distortion like most people don't, then you are free to believe they have great quality (low) bass. It never happens that the best place in a room for (low) bass reproduction is the best place to position a Maggie. Never. I guess that is mainly relevant to stereo users, HT people would already know that.
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post #3648 of 3828 Old 06-27-2014, 10:37 AM
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If it's the same 1.7 review I read that was referred to above, where the guy gave a low score "because they delaminate": he was NOT saying the 1.7s have delaminated, he was saying they might delaminate like other (older) Maggies have sometimes been known to, and thus he was lowering the score.

I hope nobody pays any attention to somebody who thinks like that and lives their life like that. I'm surprised he could even review Maggies lying in bed in a padded room, and using dangerous electricity that might hurt him someday.

BTW, they are excellent for HT, at least for fronts and maybe more if you can get the wall-spacing far enough. However, until you have actually measured the distortion they have in the lower bass, below the typical BM XO, do not believe you don't need a sub(s) like some Maggie-freaks say. If you don't measure the distortion like most people don't, then you are free to believe they have great quality (low) bass. It never happens that the best place in a room for (low) bass reproduction is the best place to position a Maggie. Never. I guess that is mainly relevant to stereo users, HT people would already know that.
I am with you on that one, but this guy said his delaminated after his 5 year warr. was up, here is the review. Sounds like a dimwit at best, most Maggie owners rarely give them up once they buy in and have them for a very long time before they need to do any type of repair. It goes down to how much you take care of things and too much humidity is a killer on any equipment.

http://www.audioreview.com/cat/speak...3_1594crx.aspx
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post #3649 of 3828 Old 06-27-2014, 10:54 AM
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Actually, the comment that puzzles me is the guy who says he hated the 1.6. Hmm.
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post #3650 of 3828 Old 06-28-2014, 02:52 PM
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So, I got some 3.3's, but the shipper damaged them. Boxes were all torn up, visibly I can see one tweeter looks like a cassette player ate it, and audibly I can hear that one of the panels is buzzing. I bought them used, so there's some possibility that there were some issues before they got to me, but given the condition the packaging arrived in, I'm thinking that's what did it.

Anyway, I managed to patch up the packaging so I can send them to Magnepan for repair, but I can't remember how to place them in the boxes. There's two cardboard inserts and I remember something from the guy who sold them to me that said that Magnepan told him the speakers were both supposed to be face down, or facing each other, or I can't remember what.

Anybody happen to remember how to box these back up?
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post #3651 of 3828 Old 06-28-2014, 09:42 PM
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So, I got some 3.3's, but the shipper damaged them. Boxes were all torn up, visibly I can see one tweeter looks like a cassette player ate it, and audibly I can hear that one of the panels is buzzing. I bought them used, so there's some possibility that there were some issues before they got to me, but given the condition the packaging arrived in, I'm thinking that's what did it.

Anyway, I managed to patch up the packaging so I can send them to Magnepan for repair, but I can't remember how to place them in the boxes. There's two cardboard inserts and I remember something from the guy who sold them to me that said that Magnepan told him the speakers were both supposed to be face down, or facing each other, or I can't remember what.
Anybody happen to remember how to box these back up?
I don't get why the guy that shipped them too you didn't insure them? I would never buy speakers used from anyone online unless they were insured, check with with previous owner to see if they were.
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post #3652 of 3828 Old 06-28-2014, 10:18 PM
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I don't get why the guy that shipped them too you didn't insure them? I would never buy speakers used from anyone online unless they were insured, check with with previous owner to see if they were.
Thx for the suggestion.

Unfortunately, they were insured, but the insurance company rejected my claim. I'm still trying to work with them on it, but it's now been 6 months and I'm going to go ahead and get them fixed. If I can push the claim through the insurance company in the end (or the shipper, who destroyed the package), then great. But either way, I'm going to get them fixed, and at this point a specific invoice amount for the repair from Magnepan can't hurt, since part of the hangup with the insurance company was that Magnepan told them repair costs were $650 to $850, or occasionally $2000. The speakers WERE in fact insured for up to $2000, but I only paid $1000 for them. But the $2000 price only comes into play with water damage (which there isn't), so I know it will be $650-$850. The insurance company couldn't get over the possibility that it would be $2000 (which it won't). So now I need to send them in, get the $850 repair bill, and send in the bill and see what happens.

Anyway, where that leaves me is trying to put them back in the box and I don't know the best way to do it. I guess I can call Magnepan on Monday.
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post #3653 of 3828 Old 06-28-2014, 11:34 PM
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So, I got some 3.3's, but the shipper damaged them. Boxes were all torn up, visibly I can see one tweeter looks like a cassette player ate it, and audibly I can hear that one of the panels is buzzing. I bought them used, so there's some possibility that there were some issues before they got to me, but given the condition the packaging arrived in, I'm thinking that's what did it.

Anyway, I managed to patch up the packaging so I can send them to Magnepan for repair, but I can't remember how to place them in the boxes. There's two cardboard inserts and I remember something from the guy who sold them to me that said that Magnepan told him the speakers were both supposed to be face down, or facing each other, or I can't remember what.

Anybody happen to remember how to box these back up?
Magnepan ships them with the tweeters covered by a long magnetic strip, to prevent a burst of air from tearing them. These strips run the length of the tweeters, and I believe Magnepan can send you a set if you call them.
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post #3654 of 3828 Old 06-29-2014, 08:32 AM
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If it is not obvious I take pictures or draw out the way things are packed and throw the pix in the box.

IIRC there is a cardboard sheet on the bottom (may not be on the bottom side), then the two side pieces for the speakers, and a cardboard sheet for the top. The side pieces are like E's with the speakers sliding into the openings of the E. One way is to put the side pieces on one speaker and set it in the bo. Lift the uppermost part of the side piece to put the other speaker in, then the top cardboard sheet.

The side pieces are like this (crude text drawing):
--
|
--
|
--

And the stack looks like this:

-- -----cardboard----- --
|x-------speaker-------x|
--.........(air gap).........--
|x-------speaker-------x|
-- -------bottom------ --


VERY IMPORTANT: Do NOT let the tweeter strips "snap" down! You need to place one end down then carefully let it ease into place along the length of the tweeter. Do NOT let the speakers just fall into the box, you need to guide them down gently. Keep in mind the speakers are a panel of very thin material and a strong pop of wind from dropping them flat can burst the membrane. Maybe not the first time, but eventually the last...

"After silence, that which best expresses the inexpressible, is music" - Aldous Huxley
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post #3655 of 3828 Old 06-29-2014, 10:25 AM
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Originally Posted by DonH50 View Post
If it is not obvious I take pictures or draw out the way things are packed and throw the pix in the box.

IIRC there is a cardboard sheet on the bottom (may not be on the bottom side), then the two side pieces for the speakers, and a cardboard sheet for the top. The side pieces are like E's with the speakers sliding into the openings of the E. One way is to put the side pieces on one speaker and set it in the bo. Lift the uppermost part of the side piece to put the other speaker in, then the top cardboard sheet.

The side pieces are like this (crude text drawing):
--
|
--
|
--

And the stack looks like this:

-- -----cardboard----- --
|x-------speaker-------x|
--.........(air gap).........--
|x-------speaker-------x|
-- -------bottom------ --


VERY IMPORTANT: Do NOT let the tweeter strips "snap" down! You need to place one end down then carefully let it ease into place along the length of the tweeter. Do NOT let the speakers just fall into the box, you need to guide them down gently. Keep in mind the speakers are a panel of very thin material and a strong pop of wind from dropping them flat can burst the membrane. Maybe not the first time, but eventually the last...
Thanks, this is exactly what I was asking for. Do I put both speakers face up, or both face down, or both facing away from each other or both facing towards each other?
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post #3656 of 3828 Old 06-29-2014, 01:48 PM
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Not sure it matters all that much but I do not know. My MG-IIIa's have the magnets on the front so I would put mine back-to-back to maximize protection of the diaphragms.

"After silence, that which best expresses the inexpressible, is music" - Aldous Huxley
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post #3657 of 3828 Old 06-30-2014, 08:11 PM
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Wow breath taking soundstage and detail, the more I listen to these speakers the more I love them! The 1.7 is a marvel at it's price point, I have a much more expensive pair of Dynaudio C2s and the only difference right now I am noticing is tighter bass response with my C2s verses the Maggie 1.7, and they cost substantial less and made in the USA.
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post #3658 of 3828 Old 06-30-2014, 08:43 PM
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Any panel speaker, dynamic or electrostatic, is going to struggle producing realistic bass at moderate to high volumes. A sub can do wonders. Above that, you will be hard-pressed to find cleaner sound once they are set up properly.

Be aware if they are brand new that the bass -3 dB point will drop a bit through the first perhaps 10 - 50 hours of use. There are minor changes to the rest of the frequency range, but the bass is by far the most noticeable. And because it is fairly gradual you might not even notice that. (N.B. I am assuming that is true for the QR design; it would appear so to me based on their construction but I have not had a pair to measure. It was true on the older models.)

Enjoy! - Don

p.s. I struggled mightily before getting rid of my old Infinity IRS 2's, an excellent conventional design back in the day but didn't move me the way my Maggie's did.
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post #3659 of 3828 Old 07-02-2014, 02:25 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Garman View Post
Calypte: Interesting as I read some one gave the Maggies are horrible review because of the delaminating issue with a pair of 1.7s.
Let me see, I've had MG1b's with tweeter corrosion, traditional cone speakers with foam suspension where the foam fell apart, cone speakers with butyl rubber suspensions where the rubber surround came loose from the driver and cone speakers where the voice coil windings "unpacked" and started scraping on the magnet.

Speakers are mechanical devices. As such, there will always be parts that can wear out or otherwise fail, no matter what they are constructed from. It's silly to worry about Magnepans delaminating.
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post #3660 of 3828 Old 07-02-2014, 03:29 PM
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Originally Posted by cctvtech View Post
It's silly to worry about Magnepans delaminating.
Actually, if you look at the Youtube repair procedures by Magnepan owners, it's pretty straight forward and can be done by the general population. I don't think many other speakers can be repaired by people of little experience. If I were low on money, I would buy older full sized Maggies that needed repair and put in the elbo greese to have an amazing speakers for little cost.

Last edited by oneartist; 07-02-2014 at 05:54 PM. Reason: typo
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