The Official Magnepan Owners Thread - Page 124 - AVS Forum
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Old 08-13-2014, 04:49 AM
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Originally Posted by BDP24 View Post
The 1.7's would be a no hassle speaker to own---Magnepan has new glue that is used on the 1.7's, and it solved the de-lamination problem. The 2.7's, even if they are fine now, will definitely develop delamination in the future. But if you really like the speaker, that's the price you pay to have and enjoy them. Owners of Quad Electrostatic speakers have been dealing with their arcing problems for decades!
I wish I knew that! Thanks
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Old 08-13-2014, 05:04 AM
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Kind of surprised there are no replies. 2-3 days past already. There used to be updates every hour! Probably everybody is just busy with their daily chores and work. That's cool.
Anyway.
Another question. I have an Emotiva XPA-5 Gen 2 to power the upcoming 2.7QRs. Is that enough? Or should I look into perhaps an XPA-2 or even XPR-2?
Note: the speakers will be crossed over at 80Hz . Two powered subwoofers will handle low bass - 2,700W and 1,000W.
Much obliged!
Let me know how you like them once you get them set up. I just ordered the MMGs yesterday, my first Maggies. I also bought a used Rotel amp that is rated at 240w for 4 ohm speakers, and I'm going to run that through the pre outs on my Marantz SR5005 AVR. I'll report on how I like the MMGS once I get them set up.
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Old 08-13-2014, 05:19 AM
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Originally Posted by pandy4 View Post
Let me know how you like them once you get them set up. I just ordered the MMGs yesterday, my first Maggies. I also bought a used Rotel amp that is rated at 240w for 4 ohm speakers, and I'm going to run that through the pre outs on my Marantz SR5005 AVR. I'll report on how I like the MMGS once I get them set up.
Sounds like a great setup, Pandy4. Both the Rotel and the MArantz are serious items and the MMGs I hear sound terrific! Congrats and please post your first impressions. Thank you.
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Old 08-13-2014, 05:38 AM
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I'm sure your 2.7's will sound great. I was thinking of buying used 10mg 10qrs, which I could have bought for the same price, but it seems that very few people own that particular speaker and there is not much info on them on the internet. Plus, apparently they have less bass than the MMGs, 1.7's, 2.7's, etc.
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Old 08-13-2014, 07:07 AM
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I dont know much about Maggies, but I thought even the 3.7s need some external low bass reinforcement . Some people even use the 20.1 with subs, although it is pretty hard to find a sub quick and articulate enough to match those Maggies.
Were you planning to use your Maggies without a sub, Pandy4? If not, what sub do you have now or planning to get for the MMGs?
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Old 08-13-2014, 07:29 AM
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Originally Posted by grigorianvlad View Post
I dont know much about Maggies, but I thought even the 3.7s need some external low bass reinforcement . Some people even use the 20.1 with subs, although it is pretty hard to find a sub quick and articulate enough to match those Maggies.
Were you planning to use your Maggies without a sub, Pandy4? If not, what sub do you have now or planning to get for the MMGs?
I haven't heard Magnepan speakers in a long time, and I've never heard the MMGs, so I'm not sure if I'll use a sub or not. Some reviewers liked the bass on the MMGs, I posted part of one review below in italics and the ultrahigh end review website also loved the bass from the MMGS. However, there is no question that some of the other Maggies have no bass at all. Reviews I read on the MG10 QRS, that I was considering buying used, said that if you have the MG10 QR you have to have a subwoofer. Perhaps that's why Magnepan discontinued that speaker and very few people seem to have them.

I have two DEF TEC 3way front speakers with 300 watt built in subs, so I'll try the MMGs alone, and then use the two built in subs from the Def Tecs with them and see how that works out. I'll report back on how it all sounds.


The MMGs produce a tempered, exacting bass. They do not shake the walls, but they also do not impart the distorted, muddy bass that many speakers do. With the correct room placement, they will sound very full and robust. They do very well on classic rock and folk, but for newer pop and hip-hop you may want to invest in a subwoofer. I’d only do tat if hip-hop and Top-40-type pop is your main musical taste. Then again, if those are the only genres you listen to, the MMGs may not be right for you at all.


My feeling is that if you want the most precise clarity in the high end and mid range, you usually have to give up some bass.

Last edited by pandy4; 08-13-2014 at 07:33 AM.
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Old 08-13-2014, 08:30 AM
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My feeling is that if you want the most precise clarity in the high end and mid range, you usually have to give up some bass.
Absolutely. You cant have everything. Those qualities you mentioned are by far more important than bass. Having said that, a good sub is also hard to come by. It has to be quick, taut and detailed bass. Not many subs below $2,000 fall into this category. But once you find the right combination of all components - music becomes pure magic.
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Old 08-13-2014, 12:39 PM
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Originally Posted by grigorianvlad View Post
Thanks, Drussell. No the amp is pretty close, a few feet away.

Regarding "buying a used speaker without first listening to it". I know for sure that I want this brand. That still leaves the possibility described in the review you posted above - serpentine wires come loose from the diaphragms , glue goes bad, etc. So, I asked the seller, - who is probably is a subscriber to this thread, I dont know - if there is any of that or if the speakers buzz at high volume or sound any different than brand new. So, I believed him and took a leap of faith. There are no local 2.7 here (that I know of). At least none that I got in touch to come over and audition. From 3 dealership only one still open and they have 1.7s and 3.7, but not a pair of 2.7.

So, I know I took a huge risk. Nevertheless, there is a chance they will arrive in a good functioning state and will work just fine for a year or two.

Would you be so kind and answer my other two questions.

1) If you had a choice between a pair of 2.7 and 1.7, which one would you chose (provided of course, the 2.7 sounds fine for their age)? I've read that the 2.7 are 3 way speakers, go down to 34Hz, 1dB more sensitive, plus they are wider and taller than the 1.7. So, that is why chose them. But there is that unknown state they are in (purchased without an audition).

2) Like I wrote above I will be powering them with an Emotiva XPA-5 Gen 2. Will that be enough power to drive them in a small to medium room? Or do I need to upgrade to XPA-2 or even XPR-2? The signal will be crossed over at 80Hz and handled by two powered subs: 2,700W and 1,000W.

Thank you for taking the time to answer.

Answer for question 1: I auditioned the 1.7s and know first-hand how good they sound, and I never got a chance to audition the older 2.7s (I'm not even sure when production stopped on these). Therefore, I'd pick the 1.7s. It was fairly difficult to choose between the 3.6s (3.7s weren't out at the time) and the 1.7s. I ended up buying the 3.6. But Maggies are Maggies. Magnapan doesn't make a bad speaker that I know of. All they do is make speakers that reviewers fawn all over themselves about. And as you know, placement is fairly important, but not quite as important as some would make you believe.

Answer for question 2: You should have no problems at all driving them with the Emotiva. I drive my 3.6s with a 200 watt amp in a room that's about 3,400 cu. ft. in volume, which is considered a large room. But I do not listen at reference levels. I listen at music where peaks rarely go past the 85 dB mark (although I have had them past 90 dB). To me, that is extremely loud.

I wish you good fortune that the 2.7s are in very good shape. If so, they should last for many more years to come. And if they are half the speaker that those users claimed they are, then you got a very good deal … provided you didn't pay 2 grand for them .

And yes, all Maggies do indeed need a good sub in order to reach the depth they are just not capable of. I cross mine over very low (like 40 Hz) just because I don't want to lose the Maggies' unique bass signature. Others will cross them over at higher frequencies.
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Old 08-13-2014, 01:11 PM
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Originally Posted by dsrussell View Post
I wish you good fortune that the 2.7s are in very good shape. If so, they should last for many more years to come. And if they are half the speaker that those users claimed they are, then you got a very good deal … provided you didn't pay 2 grand for them .
Thank you, Drussell. I am terrified about the shape and sound of these 2.7s (arriving tomorrow). I have no doubts about Magnepan the brand, but I dont know how this particular pair will turn out to be.
I've sold both front L/R (Polk LSiM 703s) and surround (Polk LSi-9s) to buy these Maggies. So, I am pretty much speakerless at this point.

I didnt pay $2K for the MAggies. Just $1,200. I've done research and they went for about $950-$1,050 on Ebay, sold prices, not listed. But they showed up so rarely with the shipping option, so it is hard to say. 80% of MAggies I see there are local pickup only and never close to Atlanta.

The seller listed the 2.7 at $1,195 with a "Make an Offer". I offered $1,100. He declined . Then the listing disappeared, sold. I was devastated because I would have to wait for 6-8 months before a used pair of 2.7s shows up in good shape and available for shipping. So, devious as I am, I contacted the seller and offered him $1,200. Luckily, the buyer started to insist on partial payments ("here is half, keep the speakers until I PayPal you the other half when I get paid"). So, the seller was beside himself. He told the layaway customer to take a hike and sold them to me. I spoke with him a few times, he sent pictures before and after packing, tracking, etc.

So, I overpaid by about $200 but I dont care. Its time I graduated from cone speakers to Maggies and I couldnt wait for the next pair to show up in a few months.

Thanks for your support.
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Old 08-13-2014, 02:37 PM
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So, I overpaid by about $200 but I dont care. Its time I graduated from cone speakers to Maggies and I couldnt wait for the next pair to show up in a few months.

Thanks for your support.
Enjoy your purchase and know that you have great sounding speakers. I have had 3.6s for almost 10 years and for music have not found other spakers that have made me want to change.

I agree that no matter the size of the Maggie, a subwoofer (or two) fills in. I also agree to cross fairly low, try 40 and 50 Hz, to get the most out of the Maggies base.
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Old 08-13-2014, 08:44 PM
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Originally Posted by grigorianvlad View Post
Another question. I have an Emotiva XPA-5 Gen 2 to power the upcoming 2.7QRs. Is that enough? Or should I look into perhaps an XPA-2 or even XPR-2?
I had an XPA-5 Gen 1 powering 1.7's, a CC5/DWM combo, and 2 MC1's and the XPa-5 held it's own. After a few months I did purchase an XPA-2 for the 1.7's to take some of the load off the XPA-5. Unfortunately I never compared the sound of the 1.7's listening solo with the two amps. The 1.7's absolutely sing with the XPA-2 Gen 2.

My center channel become more authoritative and "full" when the 1.7's were removed from the XPA-5 Gen1.....leading me to believe it struggled somewhat with the full LCR plus surround speaker load, however I did not notice any problems when listening to music in stereo.

So to make my long story short I believe either an XPA-5 or XPA-2 would drive your 2.7GR's beautifully. Best of Luck and congratulations......enjoy.......and please let us know how it goes.

I strongly recommend auditioning a Rythmik F12 sub....a bargain for such musicality!

Magnepan 1.7's (LR)
Magnepan CC5/DWM (Center Channel)
Magnepan MC1's (Surrounds)
Rythmik F12 (Sub)
Emotiva UMC-1 (Processor)
Emotiva XPA-2 Gen2 Drives the 1.7's
Emotiva XPA-5 Drives the Center and Surrounds
Oppo BDP-103

Last edited by stustan; 08-13-2014 at 08:51 PM.
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Old 08-14-2014, 07:18 AM
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I strongly recommend auditioning a Rythmik F12 sub....a bargain for such musicality!
Thank you, Stustan. I am sure the XPA-5 Gen 2 will suffice. I rarely listen over -30 volume on AVR (-80 to +10), so the Maggies will hold it together just fine at that volume.

About the sub. I have two already.

1. Sunfire Signature TSEQ12 , 2,700W
2. Sunfire HRS-10 , 1,000W

Any one of those two would be enough, but my listening room is an acoustic Bermuda triangle so I need both for even bass distribution.

I have heard great things about Rythmik, about how well they blend in with the MAggies. I will try them one day, when I upgrade to 3.7s. For now - these Sunfires would do just fine. I run them at just 7% gain anyway.
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Old 08-14-2014, 10:16 AM
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Darn it. A pair of 2.7 showed up today on CL locally. For $999! If it showed up a week ago I would not have bought my pair - for $200 more plus $250 for shipping! The most important part they are being delivered today and I have no idea if they work! But this local pair I would be able to audition!
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Old 08-15-2014, 02:19 AM
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Darn it. A pair of 2.7 showed up today on CL locally. For $999! If it showed up a week ago I would not have bought my pair - for $200 more plus $250 for shipping! The most important part they are being delivered today and I have no idea if they work! But this local pair I would be able to audition!
Well? What's the verdict??
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Old 08-15-2014, 07:22 AM
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Impression? John 9:25, "Whereas once I was blind, now I can see."

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Well? What's the verdict??
The boxes for the 2.7s were fine on the outside. The seller wasnt kidding when he said they were packed better than factory's. They are not new but you will only find out if you are 2 inches away . Look like brand new from where I am sitting. I expected worse. There is a bump (half an inch) on the back wood panel, but you cant see it.
Took me 5 minutes to attach the feet and connect them. The first impression was disappointing and exhilarating at the same time. I am used to the Polk LSiM 703s perfect tweeters. The Maggies dont have that - either because of the age or that is their design. Not to worry - I bumped up treble in Pioneer MCACC and that problem went away. Then I noticed another thing. These tracks I've listened to a thousand times, so I can recall how volume should be dialed for each one of them. With the Maggies I have to increase it by 5-10dB to get the same perceived SPL. Also no biggie, -30dB instead of -40 on the AVR! Who cares?
Third disadvantage - and this one is more serious - is that these Maggies become shy at low volume, just a bit. What I mean by that is that the LSiMs maintained their composure perfectly at any volume with the Emotiva. Lower the volume to -70 and imaging, soundstage, treble, upper bass - they are all there. But Maggies kind of hide all of those if volume below -50. You have to bump it up to at least -30 until they sound perfect. But there is a possibility it is my old hearing.
I found no problem with off axis collapse. Sounds great in any part of the room.
When those three things were out of the way, I could finally sit down and give these Maggies a good listen.
These speakers are all about natural sound. they dont reproduce a concert, they reincarnate it in its original glory. You have to remember we are talking more than 700 square inches of radiative surface, and it radiates on both sides, front and back. Now compare that to the LSiMs dont know how many square inches but its gotta be 20-30. Tweeters alone on the MAggies are bigger and more natural than the entire surface of the LSiM 707s! So, the image is huge, gigantic! The music isnt produced by tiny oompa loompas sitting in a small LSiM box. It is alive scene with live artists. You can position each instrument with a precision of a few inches. Basically it is a sonic equivalent of jumping from a 27 inch tube television straight to a 100 inch projection screen. Wall to wall music.
The details are amazing. Sakamoto concert , I can hear him flipping piano keyboard cover and squeaking of his seat. Never heard that with LSiMs. Uncanny!
There is no bass other than upper and midbass, but all I care about is solid midrange, imaging and soundstage. And there is plenty of that for sure.
They are close to wall - I noticed no difference if I positioned them far from the wall.
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Old 08-15-2014, 11:37 AM
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^^ Thanks for sharing your thoughts! And welcome to the world of Maggies, a unique world indeed. I think they look great in your room, then again, I've always been partial to having "2001: A Space Odyssey" Monoliths in my room . I can imagine you sitting on your couch pointing your finger at them . Let us know more of your thoughts when you've had them for a few weeks. Enjoy!
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Old 08-15-2014, 12:43 PM
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Let me ask you this question.
This issue with shyness at a low volume. I've been told that it will go away if I use a power amp that is stable into 4ohm to 2ohm. The power amp I have now is an Emotiva XPA-5 Gen 2.
300 watts RMS @ 4 ohm (0.1% THD)
200 watts RMS @ 8 ohm (0.05% THD)
How true is that statement? My understanding is that impedance is important at high volume, not low.
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Old 08-15-2014, 03:36 PM
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No, that is inherent in Magnepanars, and has been a complaint about them from the original Tympani I. They need to be cranked up to a certain level before the sound "breaks through", so to speak. It may have to do with their insensitivity, the mass of the wires on the mylar, or the fact that the magnetic structure is single-ended not push pull. Panel lovers who want to be able to listen at low volume with high resolution/transparency move on to electrostatic loudspeakers, which do that. They too have their own flaws, like every speaker design. You have to find the speaker whose strengths and weaknesses match your priorities in reproduced sound.
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Old 08-15-2014, 04:53 PM
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No, that is inherent in Magnepanars, and has been a complaint about them from the original Tympani I. They need to be cranked up to a certain level before the sound "breaks through", so to speak. It may have to do with their insensitivity, the mass of the wires on the mylar, or the fact that the magnetic structure is single-ended not push pull. Panel lovers who want to be able to listen at low volume with high resolution/transparency move on to electrostatic loudspeakers, which do that. They too have their own flaws, like every speaker design. You have to find the speaker whose strengths and weaknesses match your priorities in reproduced sound.
Is it worth throwing more power at them ?
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Old 08-15-2014, 05:26 PM
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There has been articles about ESLs preferring high voltage amplification vs. Magneplanars that prefer high current (Amperes) amplification. I don't think throwing more watts into the equation will matter. Your amplifier certainly seems powerful enough. It's just that at lower volume levels the soundstage does collapse a bit. Personally, I don't have a problem with my 3.6s, but I usually listen at levels that will reach 85 dB peaks and up to 90 dB peaks at the listening position. Oh, I've run them with quite a bit less volume, but I haven't noticed a significant drop off of the soundstage, but it is less impressive. Perhaps because McIntosh is a high current amp, or I have not turned the volume knob low enough.
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Old 08-15-2014, 06:57 PM
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There has been articles about ESLs preferring high voltage amplification vs. Magneplanars that prefer high current (Amperes) amplification. I don't think throwing more watts into the equation will matter. Your amplifier certainly seems powerful enough. It's just that at lower volume levels the soundstage does collapse a bit. Personally, I don't have a problem with my 3.6s, but I usually listen at levels that will reach 85 dB peaks and up to 90 dB peaks at the listening position. Oh, I've run them with quite a bit less volume, but I haven't noticed a significant drop off of the soundstage, but it is less impressive. Perhaps because McIntosh is a high current amp, or I have not turned the volume knob low enough.
Thanks, Drussel.

Boy, was I wrong about leaving some distance between speakers and walls! Makes a difference. Treble boosted right away by 10%-20%, midrange gained more body, the shyness at low volume decreased, but not by much (inherited design disadvantage). There is an illusion that back side creates better sound than front, but it is just an illusion. There is a two feet distance so the sound reflects off the wall on the back side - trapped, while in the front it radiates out, dissipates. I was going nuts about these issues for nothing. Even decided to get a pair of LSiM 703s back and run them in parallel with the Maggies as duplicate L/R channels (via a Y-splitter to the Emotiva), moving back surrounds back to AVR speakers, without the power amp. Decided to complicate things , as always. No need anymore.

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Old 08-15-2014, 08:49 PM
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^^ Hee, hee. Yeah, I was going to comment on placing the Maggies that close to the wall, but figured I'd wait because I knew you'd do some investigating . It takes time and patience. For soundstage depth and imaging, the further away from the wall the better. Many place their Maggies 5 or more feet away. I don't have that luxury (mine are under 3-feet away), but may add some wall treatment behind them. Right now I absolutely love the sound they produce, but it wouldn't hurt to try some wall treatment because I'll never be able to place them at an ideal distance.
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Old 08-15-2014, 10:05 PM
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^^ Hee, hee. Yeah, I was going to comment on placing the Maggies that close to the wall, but figured I'd wait because I knew you'd do some investigating . It takes time and patience. For soundstage depth and imaging, the further away from the wall the better. Many place their Maggies 5 or more feet away. I don't have that luxury (mine are under 3-feet away), but may add some wall treatment behind them. Right now I absolutely love the sound they produce, but it wouldn't hurt to try some wall treatment because I'll never be able to place them at an ideal distance.
I better let my wife get used to the size of these Maggies before I add any wall treatment. She rolls her eyes every time she walks into my room as it is.
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Old 08-16-2014, 01:59 AM
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dsrussell is absolutely correct---unless your amp is clipping, more power alone shouldn't improve the sound appreciably. Their need for current is why solid state amps are, in general, better with Maggies than are tubes. Maggies just need to be at that certain volume before they open up. ESL's play quieter with higher resolution, but won't reach realistic high volume without being over-driven (a sweeping generalization, but not without some truth) and possibly damaged (especially Quads), unlike Maggies, which play quite loudly without a problem. The designer who invents panels that possess the strengths of both ESL's and Maggies, with the shortcomings of neither, with have a lot of business! Actually, there is one panel that pretty much does, but it wouldn't be cool to talk about them on the Magneplanar forum! Congratulations on your new speakers---they play music great!
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Old 08-16-2014, 10:23 AM
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dsrussell is absolutely correct---unless your amp is clipping, more power alone shouldn't improve the sound appreciably. Their need for current is why solid state amps are, in general, better with Maggies than are tubes. Maggies just need to be at that certain volume before they open up. ESL's play quieter with higher resolution, but won't reach realistic high volume without being over-driven (a sweeping generalization, but not without some truth) and possibly damaged (especially Quads), unlike Maggies, which play quite loudly without a problem. The designer who invents panels that possess the strengths of both ESL's and Maggies, with the shortcomings of neither, with have a lot of business! Actually, there is one panel that pretty much does, but it wouldn't be cool to talk about them on the Magneplanar forum! Congratulations on your new speakers---they play music great!
I went a little crazy and bought several used amps to do AB comparisons for my 3.6's: Mcintosh 2205, Butler 2250, Monarchy SM 70, Bryston 5B ST and a custom remade Odyssey Stratos by Klaus. The remake cost $530 above the cost of a used Stratos. I know this is hard to believe, but the Stratos out performed all amplifiers conneted to a pair of 3.6's. There were details in the sound that just wasn't there in any other amp. I was expecting the Butler and the Mcintosh to be the top contenders and it was hard to overcome my bias. They are great amps, but Klaus did some magic in the Stratos rebuild that is amazing. I will sell the amps that didn't make the grade. I think this is a great way to try amplifiers. If you buy them right, you can get about what you paid for the ones you don't want.
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Old 08-16-2014, 08:50 PM
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Guys, I into my third day of enjoying my Maggies and I already craving for something better. What will an upgrade to the 3.6 bring to the table? How different are they from the 2.7s? Apart from being newer (lets not forget the 2.7s are probably 15 years old).
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Old 08-16-2014, 09:14 PM
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Something to consider: Magneplanars are not the only magnetic planars available. Check the May/June issue of The Absolute Sound for one alternative.
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Old 08-16-2014, 10:52 PM
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Guys, I into my third day of enjoying my Maggies and I already craving for something better. What will an upgrade to the 3.6 bring to the table? How different are they from the 2.7s? Apart from being newer (lets not forget the 2.7s are probably 15 years old).
Each Maggie has their own personality and it all comes down to what works for you. I would suggest you would get a better return with change in amplifier / preamplifier / DAC / cables - depending on your source. General impression is the more you can feed the Maggie the better it sounds. Valve preamp with Class A amp !! Also look at the crossover and playing with resistors - see http://forum.audiogon.com/cgi-bin/fr...pkr&1120927278
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Old 08-16-2014, 11:57 PM
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I found it, thank you. Reading up on them
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Old 08-17-2014, 12:13 AM
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What bothers me about those ET speaker is their insensitivity, 83dB. Looks like they will need 1KW monoblocks
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