The Official Magnepan Owners Thread - Page 130 - AVS Forum
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post #3871 of 3899 Old 10-18-2014, 10:48 PM
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An amp is "loud and bright"? Hmmm... Check out the Emotiva site and there are test reports for each model; not sure which model you looked at. I'll just say I disagree. The UPA-200 is 125 W/ch into 8 ohms, 200 W/ch into 4 ohms. It does not have the large capacitors and transformer of a larger amp but if you look inside a class D amp you see even less. But since this thread is about Magnepan's speakers I don't plan to discuss amplifiers -- there's another sub-forum for that.

I am still curious about the ML model you auditioned. I think ML's lowest ESL model is about $2k, closer in price to the Magneplaner 1.7's than the 12's? haven't auditioned recently... I have had ESLs in my system though never owned them, and heard many in other systems over the years. ML makes some fine products, especially in the last decade or so since they solved the panel/woofer transition. Or at least improved it significantly; I still do not think it is as seamless as Maggies. but you do get more bass from the hybrid system. I have always had mixed feelings on their curved panels; they provide a more expansive sound stage at the cost of imaging, greater sensitivity to first reflections, and some loss of efficiency. It has always been a toss-up for me, but I still have my Maggies after over 30 years with them in various flavors (though I admit I have strayed at times).

Yes, they need a good subwoofer. I do like the fact that you can cross over to the sub an octave or two lower than ML crosses over to their woofer; that may be partly why I have always felt Maggies sounded better in the lower midrange and upper bass. The transition in image and soundstage always bugged me a hair with most of the ML models. The little time I have listening to newer ML models tells me it has improved, but still does not match Magnepan's to my ears. YMMV. My current wish list ESL is a Sanders systems, which is also a hybrid system but crosses over to the woofer more than an octave lower than ML's Motion ESL (but performance and price-wise Sanders is closer to the ML Summit, probably a higher-priced product than you auditioned, and the Summit also crosses over much lower than the Motion ESL).

I do wonder a bit about the set-up of the speakers you heard. The specs on the 12's are 45 Hz low end, 1.7's go to 40 Hz, and the comparably priced ML Motion ESL go to 42 Hz, a negligible difference. But, the Maggie's bass is much more sensitive to room placement than ML since the ML crosses over to a conventional woofer at 500 Hz. But you can pick up the 12's and a sub like the Rythmik F12 and have a combination that to my ears will beat the ML Motion ESL for about the same price.

Personally I would not fault either choice, but would make sure it was a real apples-to-apples comparison. That can be tough, unfortunately...

FWIWFM - Don

p.s. BDP24 -- Thanks for the kind words! My ears have gotten pretty old, however, alas. As for amps, I had a very early Phase Linear 700 that liked to self-destruct about once a year, taking out whatever speakers were connected if they were not protected.

"After silence, that which best expresses the inexpressible, is music" - Aldous Huxley
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post #3872 of 3899 Old 10-25-2014, 10:58 AM
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Hi guys. I would like to upgrade from my current 5.1 setup to a 5.1.4 Atmos system. Currently have:

Front L/R: Magneplanar 1.7s
Center: Magneplanar CC5
Rear L/R: Magneplanar MMG Ws
Sub: Hsu VTF-3
Receiver: NAD t775HD

My concern is that if I am doing some spirited listening I have to push the NAD pretty close to max (20 out of 25).

I like the NAD and would consider upgrading it but apparently they don't have anything Atmos capable yet, and frankly they don't offer the bells and whistles that companies like Denon do (stuff like bluetooth, wifi, apps, etc.).

So I am looking at something like the Denon AVR-X5200W which specs at

Power Output (8 ohm, 20 Hz - 20 kHz, 0.05% 2ch Drive)
140 W
Power Output (6 ohm, 1 kHz, 0.7% 2ch Drive)
175 W

I apologize since I am sure you get these kinds of questions all of the time, but can one of you guys that knows a lot more about this than I do tell me if they think this will drive the Maggies ok? I know I should be looking at better/separate amps and all that but I can't afford that level of performance (OK, actually I'm afraid of what my wife would do to me if I spent that much).

Thanks in advance
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post #3873 of 3899 Old 10-25-2014, 11:49 AM
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The NAD is rated at 4 ohms, the Denon is not, though in the real world that is often of very little consequence. Particularly with Maggies since they do not dip to very low impedances in the normal audio band (some 4-ohm speakers dip to 1 or 2 ohms and are reactive loads; Maggies are pretty flat, mostly resistive, and tail down a bit at very high frequencies). My guess is the Denon would drive them fine but of course it depends somewhat upon how loudly you listen, how far away you are, etc.

Check out an online SPL calculator like the one below to see how much power you might need. A cheap SPL meter is $20 - $30 from Amazon if you want a better idea how loudly you listen.

http://myhometheater.homestead.com/splcalculator.html

Worst case you could use the NAD as a power amp to offload some of the channels from the Denon, assuming the NAD has analog inputs and the Denon has preamp outputs.

HTH - Don

"After silence, that which best expresses the inexpressible, is music" - Aldous Huxley
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post #3874 of 3899 Old 10-25-2014, 12:01 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DonH50 View Post
The NAD is rated at 4 ohms, the Denon is not, though in the real world that is often of very little consequence. Particularly with Maggies since they do not dip to very low impedances in the normal audio band (some 4-ohm speakers dip to 1 or 2 ohms and are reactive loads; Maggies are pretty flat, mostly resistive, and tail down a bit at very high frequencies). My guess is the Denon would drive them fine but of course it depends somewhat upon how loudly you listen, how far away you are, etc.

Check out an online SPL calculator like the one below to see how much power you might need. A cheap SPL meter is $20 - $30 from Amazon if you want a better idea how loudly you listen.

http://myhometheater.homestead.com/splcalculator.html

Worst case you could use the NAD as a power amp to offload some of the channels from the Denon, assuming the NAD has analog inputs and the Denon has preamp outputs.

HTH - Don
Wow, thanks for the great reply!

I do have a SPL meter at home, so I will be looking into that as soon as the wife goes to work ;-)

And it had not occurred to me to use the NAD as a power amp. That's a really good idea! The denon does say that it has multi-channel pre out.

Rich
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post #3875 of 3899 Old 10-26-2014, 02:11 PM
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Originally Posted by imapylit View Post
My concern is that if I am doing some spirited listening I have to push the NAD pretty close to max (20 out of 25).
I have to run my t785HD at approximately -10 to -15 at its loudest (max is -2). I think NAD's scale is logarithmic so the higher you turn it up, the less you have to turn it up for it to get noticeably louder. Also, I was under the impression that the t775 uses a similar volume scale (-100 to -x).

Granted, neither NAD AVR has Dolby Atmos.

Be seeing you!
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post #3876 of 3899 Old 10-26-2014, 02:26 PM
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Originally Posted by cctvtech View Post
I have to run my t785HD at approximately -10 to -15 at its loudest (max is -2). I think NAD's scale is logarithmic so the higher you turn it up, the less you have to turn it up for it to get noticeably louder. Also, I was under the impression that the t775 uses a similar volume scale (-100 to -x).

Granted, neither NAD AVR has Dolby Atmos.
You are correct, I don't know what I was thinking when I wrote that. I am actually running it in the -20dB to -15dB range. The manual just says that -20 is the default setting. And you are correct that the decibel is a logarithmic unit. Pretty sure that mine operates the same as yours.

I guess my point was that it didn't seem like there was a lot of extra power left, even though I thought the NADs have a very good amp, and I was wondering how the amp in the Denon would be able to handle the low impedance load of the maggies.

I think I am going to end up using the NAD as a power amp to drive the 1.7s, center and sub and then use the new receiver to drive the rear channels and the height channels.

Rich

Also, NADs sight makes no mention of atmos, so unclear whether they are working on a module for that. But even that would not give the wifi/bluetooth capability and some of the other fun stuff.

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post #3877 of 3899 Old 10-26-2014, 03:00 PM
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Originally Posted by imapylit View Post
You are correct, I don't know what I was thinking when I wrote that. I am actually running it in the -20dB to -15dB range. The manual just says that -20 is the default setting. And you are correct that the decibel is a logarithmic unit. Pretty sure that mine operates the same as yours.

I guess my point was that it didn't seem like there was a lot of extra power left, even though I thought the NADs have a very good amp, and I was wondering how the amp in the Denon would be able to handle the low impedance load of the maggies.

I think I am going to end up using the NAD as a power amp to drive the 1.7s, center and sub and then use the new receiver to drive the rear channels and the height channels.

Rich

Also, NADs sight makes no mention of atmos, so unclear whether they are working on a module for that. But even that would not give the wifi/bluetooth capability and some of the other fun stuff.
I've never run it at higher than around -8 myself so I can't say how much headroom is left at that point. I can say that -8 is as loud as I can stand, and even that for not too long. I've also felt the amount of heat coming from the top after running the t785 at that volume for at least 1/2 hour and the airflow isn't that warm. My previous systems generated a lot more heat.

One thing - when I was researching AVRs back in 2010, I looked at all of the so-called "High End" brands, including NAD, Denon, Yamaha, Arcam, Marantz, Pioneer Elite, Onkyo, Sony, H-K, Cambridge, Sherwood, Sunfire and Rotel. Many of the above were/are not rated for 4 ohms so that weeded the choices down quite a bit. At the end, it was a toss up between NAD, Arcam and Rotel. Rotel was in the middle of model updates and their high end AVR was not available at the time and the Arcam AVR750 was way over budget at $6,000, hence the NAD.

I notice the same lack of reference to Atmos myself. Perhaps it would pay to email NAD and ask if they have any plans?

Be seeing you!

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post #3878 of 3899 Old 10-26-2014, 03:25 PM
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I've never run it at higher than around -8 myself so I can't say how much headroom is left at that point. I can say that -8 is as loud as I can stand, and even that for not too long. I've also felt the amount of heat coming from the top after running the t785 at that volume for at least 1/2 hour and the airflow isn't that warm. My previous systems generated a lot more heat.

One thing - when I was researching AVRs back in 2010, I looked at all of the so-called "High End" brands, including NAD, Denon, Yamaha, Arcam, Marantz, Pioneer Elite, Onkyo, Sony, H-K, Cambridge, Sherwood, Sunfire and Rotel. Many of the above were/are not rated for 4 ohms so that weeded the choices down quite a bit. At the end, it was a toss up between NAD, Arcam and Rotel. Rotel was in the middle of model updates and their high end AVR was not available at the time and the Arcam AVR750 was way over budget at $6,000, hence the NAD.

I notice the same lack of reference to Atmos myself. Perhaps it would pay to email NAD and ask if they have any plans?
Also, if you are going to run 2 high-power AVRs and other equipment on the same power circuit, you might want to check power requirements first. I'm running most of my equipment on a single 20-amp circuit with the sub on a separate 15 amp circuit. I looked at a number of very high power multichannel amplifiers and many recommend that their equipment run on its own dedicated 20 amp circuit. Two AVRs could strain your circuit, depending on how many speakers you intend to drive and at what volumes.

And don't go by typical manufacturer power specs. I just looked at a number of models and many say they draw 200 watts. I have to assume that's at low volume since the actual power draw is based on the amount of power you're pushing to the speakers plus additional draws for the rest of the circuitry and other equipment. An amp that is pushing out 4x200W would probably draw nearly 1,000W considering typical efficiency.

Be seeing you!
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post #3879 of 3899 Old 11-01-2014, 11:12 AM
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Design Front Setup Around CC3 or Go A Different Route

Hey all,

I am making changes to my left, center, and right speakers in my HT setup and I am hoping for some guidance. Currently, I have a Magnepan CC3 center paired with Green Mountain Audio Europa's for the front left/reft speakers, all of which are being driven by an ATI 1505 (250W RMS each channel @ 4ohms). Obviously, the L and R are not a great match acoustically to the C, so I have jumped down the rabbit hole so-to-speak by deciding to fix this mismatch.

At first, my thinking was to sell the CC3 and find a matching Green Mountain bookshelf speaker to put in the center, but now I am wondering if I might be happier in the long-run by buying a pair of Maggies for the front. My usage is an even split between movies and music, the latter consisting mostly of deep house, progressive house, etc. However, no genre is left unplayed. I've attached a picture of my current room below (no telling when I might move next), and as you can surmise it's FAR from ideal. Some new gear that is not shown in the picture includes a pair of SVS SB-2000s subs and another pair of bookshelf speakers against the back wall (far right in the photo) to round out a 7.1 system. Oh, and the side surrounds are now on higher stands as well.

So, what would you do with $2,500 given the info above? Go with Magnepans all across the front? Go with Green Mountain? Something else? I've been given the suggestion of Peter Gunn modded MMGs, but I honestly haven't done enough research, so I am hoping this post and the replies thereto are a valuable resource.

Thank you so much in advance for any and all input.

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post #3880 of 3899 Old 11-01-2014, 03:31 PM
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Do you use the fireplace? Is it gas or wood? Particulates from a fireplace can be very hard on any speaker, probably ESL's the worst, but planer dynamics like Magnepans are susceptible...

Yes, the room is non-ideal, but you might not have it forever. I would take the time to listen to a pair of Magnepans at a dealer or friend to see if you really like them. The sound is rather different from typical conventional speakers. Be sure to compare to comparably-priced conventional speakers. Another option is to try the MMG's direct from Magnepan; then you can compare in your own environment and to your current speakers. You'll have to cover shipping, however.

FWIWFM, I have rarely had an ideal room for big planer speakers, but somehow for the past few decades have always kept my Maggies (though I have strayed a few times, shhhh -- don't tell my Maggies!)

"After silence, that which best expresses the inexpressible, is music" - Aldous Huxley
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post #3881 of 3899 Old 11-01-2014, 04:28 PM
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If you're going to be in this house for a while, with this room for your system, I don't think Maggies (or any dipole) are the best choice of loudspeaker. Not only is there not enough room to move them away from the wall behind them, you won't be able to get them far enough apart, AND you will be sitting way too close to them. Just my opinion!
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post #3882 of 3899 Old 11-01-2014, 05:02 PM
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Thanks for the input thus far. Never really thought about the wood-burning fireplace being a hazard to the speakers in their current configuration (not that it gets used too frequently). However, I can definitely see a concern given the Maggies. I thought my room was too small for them given the seating arrangement, so I am glad my concern was valid. Additional input is still welcomed. I just want to perform my due diligence before ditching the CC3 and going conventional all-around. Thanks again.
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post #3883 of 3899 Old 11-01-2014, 07:22 PM
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What are the dimensions of the room? How far is your listening position from the front wall?

To set up floor-standing Magnepans you need about 3' behind them -- or need to heavily treat the wall(s) behind. It does not look like you have enough room (as BDP24 said, and I tend to agree). You could go with a pair of wall-mounted MMGW's, MC1's, or MC2's (or mount them on stands against the wall).

Frankly, the more I look and think on it, the more I think BDP24 has it right, alas.

"After silence, that which best expresses the inexpressible, is music" - Aldous Huxley
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post #3884 of 3899 Old 11-02-2014, 04:50 AM
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Plus, aesthetically, a pair of, for instance, 1.7's just wouldn't look right in the room. They would dominate, even over-power, it. The ratio of speaker to room is way off. It would be like a Pro basketball player stuffed into a sub-compact car! The loudspeaker to room relationship is the most important consideration in assembling a sound system IMO. Both acoustically, and ergonomically.
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post #3885 of 3899 Old 11-02-2014, 12:17 PM
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Whilst agreeing in general, "big speaker in a big room" and "small speaker in a small room" is acoustically irrelevant, and I am not sure how ergonomics enter into it... Aesthetics is certainly an issue, and in this case (planer dipoles) there are physical constraints that will likely preclude getting the best sound from the speakers. You could put a much larger tower in each corner and be fine although they would look pretty imposing...

"After silence, that which best expresses the inexpressible, is music" - Aldous Huxley
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post #3886 of 3899 Old 11-02-2014, 02:50 PM
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By ergonomically I meant living with them in the room. They would take up a lot of the available space (about half the room, it looks to me), and be hard to get around (cleaning, getting to the DVD/CD player, retrieving dog toys, etc.). A pair of nice stand-mounted monitors or small floor-standers could take up only about a square foot, and be spaced further apart for soundstaging and imaging. I consider the minimum room dimension needed for a pair of single-panel (12-18") planar speakers to be about 12' X 14'. With the speakers firing down the length of the room, that gives one 3' behind the speakers, 3' behind the listening location, and 8' from the speakers to the listener(s). The 12' width is just enough, as panels can actually be placed closer to side walls than can be box speakers (because of their dipole/line source radiation pattern). Now, if you were to tear out that short wall on the left of the speaker (is that a kitchen on the other side? What's more important to you---music & movies, or food?!), you'd have a planar-suitable room!
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post #3887 of 3899 Old 11-02-2014, 07:41 PM
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Got it, understood, and agreed.

He could go with one of the wall-mounted models as mentioned earlier, but in this case I'd sell the CC3 and pick up the center that matches the rest.

"After silence, that which best expresses the inexpressible, is music" - Aldous Huxley
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post #3888 of 3899 Old 11-03-2014, 05:26 PM
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What are the dimensions of the room? How far is your listening position from the front wall?

To set up floor-standing Magnepans you need about 3' behind them -- or need to heavily treat the wall(s) behind. It does not look like you have enough room (as BDP24 said, and I tend to agree). You could go with a pair of wall-mounted MMGW's, MC1's, or MC2's (or mount them on stands against the wall).

Frankly, the more I look and think on it, the more I think BDP24 has it right, alas.
Thank you for the additional info. The room dimensions are 12.5 feet wide (measured from half-wall to fireplace) and 16 feet long. Given what you and BDP24 have said below, I am leaning towards selling the CC3. The only way I can see it working is moving the couch back, but then the walking space is vastly compromised given that the front door to the place is on the near side of that chair you see against the back wall (right side of photo).

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By ergonomically I meant living with them in the room. They would take up a lot of the available space (about half the room, it looks to me), and be hard to get around (cleaning, getting to the DVD/CD player, retrieving dog toys, etc.). A pair of nice stand-mounted monitors or small floor-standers could take up only about a square foot, and be spaced further apart for soundstaging and imaging. I consider the minimum room dimension needed for a pair of single-panel (12-18") planar speakers to be about 12' X 14'. With the speakers firing down the length of the room, that gives one 3' behind the speakers, 3' behind the listening location, and 8' from the speakers to the listener(s). The 12' width is just enough, as panels can actually be placed closer to side walls than can be box speakers (because of their dipole/line source radiation pattern). Now, if you were to tear out that short wall on the left of the speaker (is that a kitchen on the other side? What's more important to you---music & movies, or food?!), you'd have a planar-suitable room!
Haha, yes I live in a very humble condo, so that short wall separates the kitchen from the living room. Eating is pretty important, but I have thought about getting rid of the kitchen in favor of a bigger listening room It seems like a good idea when I am not hungry.

In all seriousness, a lot of the enjoyment of this hobby/obsession is looking forward to upgrades/changes to gear. So, if Maggies won't work in this space, that just gives me something to look forward to getting later in life. An ideal listening room with acoustic treatments along with some Maggies and high-power amps sounds like a nice goal to have.

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post #3889 of 3899 Old 11-03-2014, 06:05 PM
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That's a great attitude! For your room I would try and find a pair of KEF LS50's to hear. I listened to them side-by-side with a pair of 1.7's last November up in Portland Oregon, and they held their own very well. They are a point-source loudspeaker, which makes for a much different kind of sound and image than does a planar. I'm pretty much a confirmed planar guy, but for $1500 I could easily live with a pair of LS50's (and a pair of subs---I think almost all speakers can use a real good sub). There are plenty of great, reasonably priced speakers these days. Hearing them is the problem. If you have a Best Buy near you, go hear the Pioneer SP-BS22-LR speakers. For $129.99 a pair how can you lose?! Leaves you plenty of dough for a subwoofer or two. DonH and I heartily recommend Rythmik subs.
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post #3890 of 3899 Old 11-03-2014, 07:00 PM
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DonH and I heartily recommend Rythmik subs.
Please add me to that Rhythmik Lovers List!!!. Great Posts and advice gentleman.

Magnepan 1.7's (LR)
Magnepan CC5/DWM (Center Channel)
Magnepan MC1's (Surrounds)
Rythmik F12 (Sub)
Emotiva UMC-1 (Processor)
Emotiva XPA-2 Gen2 Drives the 1.7's
Emotiva XPA-5 Drives the Center and Surrounds
Oppo BDP-103
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post #3891 of 3899 Old 11-04-2014, 12:06 PM
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Originally Posted by BDP24 View Post
That's a great attitude! For your room I would try and find a pair of KEF LS50's to hear. I listened to them side-by-side with a pair of 1.7's last November up in Portland Oregon, and they held their own very well. They are a point-source loudspeaker, which makes for a much different kind of sound and image than does a planar. I'm pretty much a confirmed planar guy, but for $1500 I could easily live with a pair of LS50's (and a pair of subs---I think almost all speakers can use a real good sub). There are plenty of great, reasonably priced speakers these days. Hearing them is the problem. If you have a Best Buy near you, go hear the Pioneer SP-BS22-LR speakers. For $129.99 a pair how can you lose?! Leaves you plenty of dough for a subwoofer or two. DonH and I heartily recommend Rythmik subs.
Will do thanks for the input! I am also looking into Ascend Sierra 2s. Someone on the forums did a very nice comparison of the Sierra 2s vs the LS50s over a several month period, and ended up keeping the Sierra 2s after much deliberation. In either case, I have my work cut out for me. Thanks again for the great help. I will be back here once I've moved into a "real" place with a proper listening room
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post #3892 of 3899 Old 11-21-2014, 01:41 PM
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I've run across a pair of MGIIIA's for sale locally for $800.00 (without the packaging). I was looking at the 1.7's but was curious about these. I have a few questions I'm hoping someone can answer who has had some experience with them.

1. How does the sound compare to the 1.7's, I haven't heard the MGIIIA's yet?
2. They mentioned there may have been some external crossovers but they no longer have them. Did the MGIIIA's come with external crossovers?
3. I have a McIntosh MC2105 (105W into 4ohms but probably closer to 125W) I was going to drive them with and the comment was made that it wasn't enough for these. Is that true? I could buy an Emotiva XPA2 Gen2 for the cost difference.
4. Do the IIIA's have the de-lamination problem I'm reading about and is the $1000.00 cost to fix it at the factory accurate? Does it happen to every speaker or only a certain percentage?

Has anyone had both and can comment on how the sound compares, that would be great. I had the 1.7's for a couple of days and really liked them given I have some room problems in terms of placement so they could be even better I'm sure.
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post #3893 of 3899 Old 11-21-2014, 03:31 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jcgriff View Post
I've run across a pair of MGIIIA's for sale locally for $800.00 (without the packaging). I was looking at the 1.7's but was curious about these. I have a few questions I'm hoping someone can answer who has had some experience with them.

1. How does the sound compare to the 1.7's, I haven't heard the MGIIIA's yet? The MGIIIA's will probably have deeper bass and have a ribbon tweeter vs the quasi ribbon on the 1.7's.
2. They mentioned there may have been some external crossovers but they no longer have them. Did the MGIIIA's come with external crossovers? I'm not sure about the IIIA's but the 3.5's and 3.6's all had external crossovers that were necessary if you weren't going to actively biamp the speakers. If these had them and don't anymore, I would walk away.
3. I have a McIntosh MC2105 (105W into 4ohms but probably closer to 125W) I was going to drive them with and the comment was made that it wasn't enough for these. Is that true? I could buy an Emotiva XPA2 Gen2 for the cost difference. This is an age old debate among Maggie fans. I'm personally in the camp that more power will mean less likelihood of clipping and blowing fuses but others would differ.
4. Do the IIIA's have the de-lamination problem I'm reading about and is the $1000.00 cost to fix it at the factory accurate? Does it happen to every speaker or only a certain percentage? Yes. All Maggies are subject to it but its presence is a impacted by age and humidity. I had 3.6's rebuilt for $900-$1000 including shipping back. I would think IIIA's would be around the same cost.

Has anyone had both and can comment on how the sound compares, that would be great. I had the 1.7's for a couple of days and really liked them given I have some room problems in terms of placement so they could be even better I'm sure. I can't really comment. I had 1.6's at one point and they were nice but the highs and lows weren't as nice as either the 3.6's or 3.7's I had. I haven't heard the 1.7's. I would try to find a pair of 3.6's on audiogon or somewhere and get them rebuilt. I paid $900 for mine that I had rebuilt and walked away with damn good speakers for less than $2k.
See comments in red.

Absence of evidence is not evidence of absence

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post #3894 of 3899 Old 11-21-2014, 03:54 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jcgriff View Post
3. I have a McIntosh MC2105 (105W into 4ohms but probably closer to 125W) I was going to drive them with and the comment was made that it wasn't enough for these. Is that true? I could buy an Emotiva XPA2 Gen2 for the cost difference.

I had the 1.7's for a couple of days and really liked them given I have some room problems in terms of placement so they could be even better I'm sure.
Love vintage equipment. I have the McIntosh MC2205 (200 watts / channel) that is driving my 3.6 Maggies. Your amp should also have Power Guard and won't clip. It should be fine for driving the Maggies to reasonable levels. The difference between your 100 watt amp and my 200 watt amp is there will be 3 dB more output on my MC2205. As you can see, that's not much of a difference. It takes 10 times the power to double the sound output.

I auditioned the 1.7s and was highly impressed. They are a great speaker.
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post #3895 of 3899 Old 11-21-2014, 07:54 PM
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The IIIa's do need an external crossover box (unless you are actively bi-amping, DO NOT passively bi-amp using your AVR without the crossovers or you will damage the speakers!) The IIIa's were discontinued around 1990, so any you buy used are at least ~25 years old. That would make me very leery unless I was able to do a very thorough evaluation, and that from a guy with a pair from 1988 that are still playing. When I last spoke with Magnepan (couple of years ago) they were very surprised I had not replaced the ribbons once or twice, and somewhat that I had not experienced delamination. However, my were in storage for about a decade, and I have tried to not abuse them.

Info here: http://www.integracoustics.com/MUG/M.../speakers.html

The IIIa's are bigger, play deeper, and with the true ribbon tweeter have a better high end than the 1.7's IMO. But frankly unless I was very sure about their condition I would pass on the IIIa's. One caveat: it was less than $1k to rebuild mine a couple of years ago, so that does present the opportunity to get a pair close in performance to the 3.6 (maybe 3.7) for less than half the cost. If rebuilding is reasonable for you and for Magnepan (call them), that could be a good deal.

"After silence, that which best expresses the inexpressible, is music" - Aldous Huxley

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post #3896 of 3899 Old Yesterday, 07:33 AM
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I have a pair of both IIIa's and 1.7's. I prefer the IIIa's, hands down. The problem, as others have pointed out, is that you have 25 year old adhesive on the IIIa's which is prone to failure. I use the 1.7's for home theater because they're a little more indestructible. The IIIa's just shine with music. You get the same "type" of sound with both, but the ribbon on the IIIa is much better. I'm in the process of pairing the 1.7's with a rythmik F15HP, so I will reserve judgement on the bass side of things until that is done.

And yes, the IIIa needs external crossover boxes. If they are not included, you do not have a complete speaker.

Magnepan 1.7 LR | Magnepan CC5 center | Rythmik F15HP | Magnepan MC1 Sides | Magnepan MMG Rears | NAD T 757 | Emotiva UPA-1 mono's | Emotiva XPA-5 | Sony HW40es | Silver Ticket 120"
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post #3897 of 3899 Old Yesterday, 12:14 PM
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^ Congratulations on the Rythmik. Should be terrific. Let us know what you think when you've integrated it.
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post #3898 of 3899 Old Yesterday, 05:12 PM
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Thanks everyone for the info on the IIIa's and it sounds like I have more work to do. I'll call Magnapan next week on the crossovers and find out the approximate cost to rebuild them before I talk to these guys again.These are strictly for music, mostly vinyl, so I like that they sound better, close in performance to the 3.6. I have a fairly big room, 16' X 18' with average 10' ceilings (cathedral).

Don, what did you mean by "DO NOT passively bi-amp using your AVR"? I suppose I don't understand the "passively" part. I have an Onkyo 805 I'm using strictly for connecting to my NAS to play digital files through a Squeezebox, could I use it in conjunction with the Mac to bi-amp?
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post #3899 of 3899 Old Yesterday, 05:52 PM
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Aside from the fact the passive bi-amping does essentially nothing, the important part in this case is "without the crossovers". Without the crossover boxes you'd be sending a full-range signal to all drivers and that would quickly destroy the tweeter with the midrange following. The seller should have those crossover boxes someplace; make him/her/it find them or pay to replace them.

I would drive them with the McIntosh amp and be done with it. If you need more power, you'll need a lot more, and the AVR probably won't help much if any. Remember doubling the power (which bi-amping does not do in any event, it just splits the power into two or more bands, no band sees any more power unless you get a bigger amp) is only a 3 dB increase in loudness, barely worth the effort.

In several decades of Maggie-ness I have always preferred them, from the MG-I's to the MG-20's, with a good sub (or a pair, in my case).

FWIWFM - Don

"After silence, that which best expresses the inexpressible, is music" - Aldous Huxley
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