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post #3901 of 3914 Old 11-24-2014, 12:34 PM
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IMO the IIIx is a big step-up over the IIx, primarily because of the ribbon tweeter, less so the extra bass. But, I have never heard the 2.7's.

I have done all sorts of mods over the years but in all honesty nobody could tell, just no sonic difference. There were measurable differences with some mods, but by and large nada. I also found replacing the coils (inductors) with heavier units offered the closest thing to an audible benefit short of active bi-amping (bypassing the crossovers).

$850, I saw them for ~$300 a while back, gee maybe I should consider selling mine... <pause> Nope, the 3.7's are pushing $6k, I'll keep mine a while!

"After silence, that which best expresses the inexpressible, is music" - Aldous Huxley
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post #3902 of 3914 Old 11-24-2014, 01:43 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DonH50 View Post
IMO the IIIx is a big step-up over the IIx, primarily because of the ribbon tweeter, less so the extra bass. But, I have never heard the 2.7's.

I have done all sorts of mods over the years but in all honesty nobody could tell, just no sonic difference. There were measurable differences with some mods, but by and large nada. I also found replacing the coils (inductors) with heavier units offered the closest thing to an audible benefit short of active bi-amping (bypassing the crossovers).

$850, I saw them for ~$300 a while back, gee maybe I should consider selling mine... <pause> Nope, the 3.7's are pushing $6k, I'll keep mine a while!


I sold the 2.7's for what I'm paying for the IIIa's so I'm not feeling any pain. I hear you on the mods. Probably negligible.

Denon AVR-4520CI
Carver Amazing Originals/ Carver Amazing Silvers
(2) Sonotube Subs with 18" Stereo Integrity D4 Drivers
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https://onedrive.live.com/?cid=222FF...3449%21138&v=3
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post #3903 of 3914 Old 11-25-2014, 12:45 PM
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If those IIIa's are in good shape sounds like a win!

I did all sorts of different mods and thought I heard all sorts of things. Blind testing was humbling. Many folk claim significant improvements from various tweaks. My IIIa's are stock. I did bi-amp for a long time and liked that, and could show measurable and audible differences with the system I had at the time, but am not now and have no plans to do so again. Just not worth the effort and I don't have space for another amp in my console.

I will be very torn when mine finally die and I have to update or replace them. I debated between 20's and Sanders ESL's but for now have decided to try to get the kids through college and see if I can retire by age 163. Touch and go...

"After silence, that which best expresses the inexpressible, is music" - Aldous Huxley
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post #3904 of 3914 Old 11-25-2014, 12:55 PM
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I only got a chance to listen to a couple of tracks last night with the subs going hard. Have my granddaughter with an ear ache to watch today until my son gets home. Looking forward to some listening this evening. What I did hear sounded darn good. More detail and revealing than the 2.7's. No bi-amping in my future.


https://onedrive.live.com/?cid=222FF...3449%21147&v=3




.

Denon AVR-4520CI
Carver Amazing Originals/ Carver Amazing Silvers
(2) Sonotube Subs with 18" Stereo Integrity D4 Drivers
Projector: BenQ W1070
Some audio history:
https://onedrive.live.com/?cid=222FF...3449%21138&v=3

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post #3905 of 3914 Old 11-26-2014, 09:50 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DonH50 View Post
IMO the IIIx is a big step-up over the IIx, primarily because of the ribbon tweeter, less so the extra bass. But, I have never heard the 2.7's.

I have done all sorts of mods over the years but in all honesty nobody could tell, just no sonic difference. There were measurable differences with some mods, but by and large nada. I also found replacing the coils (inductors) with heavier units offered the closest thing to an audible benefit short of active bi-amping (bypassing the crossovers).

$850, I saw them for ~$300 a while back, gee maybe I should consider selling mine... <pause> Nope, the 3.7's are pushing $6k, I'll keep mine a while!
Can the metal feet that were used on the 20.1s and the 3.6s be used on the 3.7i's?

I have a friend who recently got a pair of 20.7s; I have the 20.1s. I much prefer the look of the 20.1 feet than the 20.7's base. Is that an option?

The easiest (and usually cheapest) way to improve the sound of your system is to put on a better recording.
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post #3906 of 3914 Old 11-26-2014, 10:31 AM
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I have barely seen the newer models and didn't look at the feet closely when I did, sorry. I don't pay much attention to looks (talking speakers here, right ) unless I really, really like the looks or really hate it and either case is rare. You could call Magnepan and ask them if you can retrofit. It may be a DIY project. I have a vague memory that they changed to provide a tighter fit and more secure base but that could be the lack of coffee...

"After silence, that which best expresses the inexpressible, is music" - Aldous Huxley
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post #3907 of 3914 Old 11-27-2014, 07:54 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DonH50 View Post
I have barely seen the newer models and didn't look at the feet closely when I did, sorry. I don't pay much attention to looks (talking speakers here, right ) unless I really, really like the looks or really hate it and either case is rare. You could call Magnepan and ask them if you can retrofit. It may be a DIY project. I have a vague memory that they changed to provide a tighter fit and more secure base but that could be the lack of coffee...
> I have barely seen the newer models and didn't look at the feet closely when I did.

The bases I'm talking about are on the 3.7i. Magnepan's own site still lists the manual link as the 3.7, not the 3.7i, but the link itself shows the base for the 3.7i, which is here:

http://www.magnepan.com/www/pdf_manuals/manual_37.pdf

As you can see, it's oval, which is what my friend's 20.7's.

My 20.1's have the metal T-shaped feet we're all familiar with.

The easiest (and usually cheapest) way to improve the sound of your system is to put on a better recording.
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post #3908 of 3914 Old 11-27-2014, 09:51 AM
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Somebody probably decided the new base was more aesthetic. Since both mount with screws to the back it is possible the spacing and threads are the same so you could use either set. I would call Magnepan and ask them if the earlier feet would work on the newer models.

"After silence, that which best expresses the inexpressible, is music" - Aldous Huxley
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post #3909 of 3914 Old 12-03-2014, 11:38 AM
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New Forum Member - MG-2.5/R questions

Hello Everyone,

New forum member here... just last night, I got my Maggies (MG-2.5/R) set back up after a 10-year hiatus with burst ribbons. They were brand new in ~1989 from Clark Music in Latham, NY. I bought the replacement ribbons from White Bear Lake last week and got them going last night. New Emotiva XPA-200 (240W/ch into 4 ohms) amp is on the way... I got the $339 2014 Holiday pricing.

Man, the Maggies still sound truly awesome after 25 years (even with only my Sony receiver driving them until the new Emotiva gets here). I apparently do not have the de-lamination problem as others have experienced (I have absolute zero buzzing), but I don't know if that problem pertains to my model... so my questions are:

1) Do my MG-2.5/R's have the potential for de-lam of the wires from the mylar as other models have shown? (I presume same bonding/adhesion process as other models)

2) I have read comments from time to time about the crossover quality in some Maggies... does my model have a decent crossover, or should I consider rebuilding it? What's wrong with the original crossovers that have caused some owners to lament? (i.e., design? component quality?)

3) What are some of the main problems experienced by Maggie owners that I should be looking out for as I take my babies through their paces these next couple of months?

Thanks in advance!

Kind Regards,

mjklaser (aka, Mark)
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post #3910 of 3914 Old 12-03-2014, 12:33 PM - Thread Starter
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As far as I know, all Mags are subject to the delamination problem. I think the main beef people have with the crossovers Magnepan uses is that they use low cost parts and some think they can get better sound by using more expensive parts.

Absence of evidence is not evidence of absence

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post #3911 of 3914 Old 12-04-2014, 03:00 PM
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Originally Posted by stustan View Post
I have a dedicated almost all Maggie Theater/Music room that consists of 1.7's for the LR, CC5/DWM combo for the center, MC1's for the surrounds and a Rythmik F12 for the sub. An Emotiva XPA-5 originally drove all the Maggies. After a few months, as an experiment, I purchased an Emotiva XPA-2 Gen2 to drive the 1.7's. I was curious how the 1.7's would sound when playing 2 channel music being driven by an amplifier with more power.

The XPA-2 Gen2 was a not a revelation in terms of immediate and obvious improvement, however, the subtle improvement in the 1.7's presentation was worth the price of admission. The 1.7's gained a relaxed refinement in terms of "dynamic expression", a clearer delineation of simultaneous sounds loud and soft. I would reword it as such: The dynamic contrasts were more apparent. The sound stage grew a touch wider and deeper with a greater sense of acoustic space as well as a better defined "spacial boundary" between instruments. Instruments had a bit more "roundness and body" than before. Overall tonal balance was nearly unaffected.

The biggest upgrade the XPA-2 Gen 2 brought to my Theater/Music room was in the theatrical realm. The improvement in my center channel (CC5/DWM combo) was profound. Freeing up the XPA-5 from driving the entire Maggie ensemble allowed my center channel to find it's voice ….. finally. The CC5/DWM instantly became firm and authoritative in its presentation, no longer thin, restricted, and recessed. It was a revelatory transformation, so much so that I was finally able to find an ideal placement that eliminated a slightly "phasey" interaction between the CC5, the DWM, and the LR's. That was the "Deal Keeper"…..I now had a center channel that spoke with authority, detail, anchoring a LCR that seamlessly stretched wall to wall.

I never suspected my XPA-5 was "running out of steam". It never exhibited any audible signs of stress, never felt hotter than warm. I was quite happy with my system for two channel playback and merely satisfied (but frustrated) with my system theatrically due to my center channel's "thinness". I am mentioning all of the preceding because I think an XPA-5 amplifier is a beefier, and a more robust amplifier than you will find in the vast majority of AVR's. I don't think many AVR's can drive an all Maggie surround system to satisfying levels and a believable and enjoyable "aural presentation". I strongly recommend (based upon my experience) you consider an XPA-5 or any of a number of high current/high wattage amplifiers. Later, you might want to purchase a dedicated two channel amp for your system, as I did.

I do not run my Maggies full range. I experiment sometimes running my 1.7's full range, no sub, when listening to music without deep low end. I invariably return to bass management as I love the honest tactile feel of my Rythmik's and how they support the foundation of music. A properly set up sub can add the "weight of the acoustic space" in those recordings that presents a realistic acoustic environment. Proper theatrical playback/presentation is another beast and, in my opinion, a sub is a necessity with any type of speaker.

My crossover points are as follows. Music playback: I fiddle with the crossover at 40 <-> 55 Hz, the majority of the time 55Hz. Theatrically my crossovers are 55Hz for the 1.7's, 60Hz for the CC5/DWM combo (I just had a thought to try them full range as a lark! But only on a dialog driven movie!), and 80Hz for my MC-1's surrounds.

I tried the Magnepan recommended Center/LR scheme for about 3 months and while I found the tonal balance to be superb there was, in my room/system, an interaction that drew my attention and disturbed my concentration and enjoyment. The problem that I gradually became aware of was the lack of image focus, solidity, and stability the center channel presented. Any voice or sound that was below the 200Hz limit of my CC5 no longer had the same image width of those sounds above 200Hz radiating from the CC5. In other words the lower frequency center channel info was playing as phantom center from my 1.7's and that phantom image width was wider than the CC5's image width. A male voice or sound effect began to stretch in width as the frequency dropped. I abandoned the Magnepan Center/LR scheme and tried using traditional bass management and crossing the CC5 at 200Hz to my sub but that experiment/listening session lasted less than 5 minutes!!

Purchasing the DWM to support my CC5 effectively made my center channel "full range" 40Hz to 20kHz. This completely and immediately cured the problem of my frequency dependent center channel varying stage width. It also anchored and solidifeid the "center" of the LCR image. Sounds that were meant to be heard from the center did not wander towards the LR 1.7's. I returned to traditional bass management crossing my CC5/DWM to my sub at 60Hz. My processor is a decently behaved Emotiva UMC-1.

I agree with Don…..I always seem to agree with Don……try a pair of 1.6 or 1.7's for you LR's. They will mate well with your CC3, which I believe digs way deeper than my CC5 without the DWM. I believe the large paneled Maggies and your CC3 will throw a more coherent LCR than MC1's and a CC3…again my opinion only.

It is my belief, again my belief only, that the large panel Maggies, due to their larger radiating area throws a greater "wavefront" at you. It is my belief that this greater rush of "air" enveloping you acts as a 'reminder" of what we experience when we hear and "feel" the world in our everyday interactions. This "wavefront" adds a sense of "familiar realism" fooling our senses somewhat ...… and that allows us to cross the threshold of reality and be fooled into believing what we are hearing is real….allowing us to experience a musical event or a film….allowing us to be transported vicariously without distractions ….. allowing us to see/hear/feel our movies and our music.

We merely listen when the audio is sub-par…..we are transported when the audio is superb.

I apologize profusely for the abundance of words……but I feel like I am amongst friends here.
I have the CCR and the bass panel advertised as a speaker stand. My Anthem D2v shows the bass falling like a rock @250. Could the bass you hear with the addition of the bass panel be all that fulfilling?
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post #3912 of 3914 Old 12-04-2014, 04:06 PM
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I have the CCR and the bass panel advertised as a speaker stand. My Anthem D2v shows the bass falling like a rock @250. Could the bass you hear with the addition of the bass panel be all that fulfilling?
The published specs of the CCR and the bass panel are 50 Hz - 40 kHz. If your Anthem D2v shows the bass falling like a rock @250 then something is seriously wrong electronically, room acoustically, or "speakerally" (sorry I couldn't resist). I cannot fathom what is wrong but I suggest some serious investigation is in order.

And yes, in my opinion, the center channel bass below 250 Hz is indeed fulfilling and a solid foundation for male and female voices, SFX, roomtones, and a coherent LCR soundstage.

I hope you can get to the bottom (sorry I couldn't resist again) of your problem. Perhaps someone else can chime in …. Don where are you???!!!!!.

Good Luck and please keep us informed.

Magnepan 1.7's (LR)
Magnepan CC5/DWM (Center Channel)
Magnepan MC1's (Surrounds)
Rythmik F12 (Sub)
Emotiva UMC-1 (Processor)
Emotiva XPA-2 Gen2 Drives the 1.7's
Emotiva XPA-5 Drives the Center and Surrounds
Oppo BDP-103
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post #3913 of 3914 Old 12-05-2014, 01:11 PM
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Sorry, I have to work sometime, and practice for Christmas gigs... Our conductor decided to add a picc trumpet part without checking keys with me first, debating whether to play on A picc (in the keys of C# going to D#/Eb) or using my Eb, or something else, blah...

On topic: Sounds like something is wrong with the connection to the bass panel (wires reversed? not connected?), or it has a blown fuse, or something. Falling below 250 Hz is suspiciously close to the LF corner of the CCR... Reversing the wires would put a big hole in the response around there. If there is no response below, then it sounds like the bass panel is not working.

Note the load impedance of the CCR + bass panel is pretty low around the crossover point, probably 2 ohms or less. It is mostly resistive but something to keep in mind. I do not think that has anything to do with the present issue, mainly a reminder note to myself.

"After silence, that which best expresses the inexpressible, is music" - Aldous Huxley
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I ordered a DWM woofer for my CC5. Can anyone recommend a stand explain how they have their DWM + center mounted?

Magnepan 1.7 LR | Magnepan CC5 center | Rythmik F15HP | Magnepan MC1 Sides | Magnepan MMG Rears | NAD T 757 | Emotiva UPA-1 mono's | Emotiva XPA-5 | Sony HW40es | Silver Ticket 120"
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