The Official Magnepan Owners Thread - Page 132 - AVS | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #3931 of 3955 Old 01-18-2015, 04:38 PM
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Not only do I love Maggies for HT, in my opinion they vastly outperform dynamic speakers in that role when you add a subwoofer. Maggies bring a realism to movie audio and dialogue that other speakers just can't match, IMO. I've posted this a few times on the forums, but I honestly thought that the Magnepan site was just talking nonsense about their HT use back when I first bought my MMGs in 2005. Turns out it was 100% spot on and I've been having a blast ever since.

And since someone above mentioned not spending a lot on rear speakers, I have always had the same approach. Just another reason to go with Maggies...simply pick up a pair or two of MMG-Ws, throw em up on the wall, and you'll have plenty of surround fill to satisfy you. I have been doing that with my 3.6s and CC3 center for years now. I have no desire for anything more than that in terms of surrounds.

Maggies rule!!!
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post #3932 of 3955 Old 01-20-2015, 04:15 PM
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Summa,


I love other speakers as well as I am a huge Dynaudio fan, but Maggies do Rule! Loving my 1.7 so far as they just put up a beautiful large soundstage!! Listening to some Holly Cole (Jazz) right now.
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post #3933 of 3955 Old 01-20-2015, 04:29 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mrlittlejeans View Post
As far as I know, all Mags are subject to the delamination problem. I think the main beef people have with the crossovers Magnepan uses is that they use low cost parts and some think they can get better sound by using more expensive parts.
Interesting, but most of the pairs I read about where much older and the newer ones that had issues seemed to be in direct sun light, which can cause problems for a lot of speakers and electronics. I read it is a problem that can be fixed pretty easily since a lot of people keep these speakers for a long time it does't surprise me it happens. Most of the speakers I have seen or read about where pretty old though. Environment is key, because if to humid or dry could play a role as well. I had a pair of SMG for over 10 years before I sold them with zero delamination issues. Seems like humidity is the real culprit in most delamination cases according to many articles that I have read about this. Not sure if Magnepan has changed their glue yet but since there is much better stuff out now, they should.


http://www.indiespinzone.com/mag/mag6.html

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post #3934 of 3955 Old 01-20-2015, 05:18 PM
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A few years ago when I called Magnepan they told me they had changed glue but could not rule it (delamination) out after many years. Sunlight is a huge factor because direct sunlight will affect most glues, causing them to stiffen and crack. My first Maggies were near windows and suffered delamination fairly early in life (maybe 5 years?) but my current pair is 30+ and still going strong (knock on wood!) I have kept them shielded from sunlight, including many years when I would listen at night then put a homebrew cover over them to block (or at least tone down) sunlight during the day.

I have played with crossovers with very mixed results. A lot of people claim vast improvements, but a couple of times I have swapped their super-duper boxes (the old models had external bass/mid crossover boxes) with my stock boxes and they haven't noticed. Sometimes I told them, sometimes not... The only significant change I ever noticed/measured was swapping the chokes for models with much lower ESR (series resistance) with a slight impact on the bass (and even slighter on the midrange). I modded a bunch of crossovers back in the day (70's/80's) but was hard-pressed to hear the difference myself, let alone measure any (I used FR and impulse response to check). Ditto the various stands and feet modifications; I could sometimes measure better impulse response, not sure I ever heard it. Ears of clay...

The main difference I heard with crossovers was when I ditched them entirely in favor of an active crossover and separate amplifiers. Not doing that now; too lazy and not enough amps laying around the place.
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post #3935 of 3955 Old 01-20-2015, 09:39 PM
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DonH50: Great post, I loved my SMGs back in the day and just went with a pair of Maggie 1.7 which I am enjoying. I am currently using a nice hefty Musical Fidelity Int. Amp that makes them sing!
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post #3936 of 3955 Old 01-22-2015, 05:28 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Garman View Post
Summa,


I love other speakers as well as I am a huge Dynaudio fan, but Maggies do Rule! Loving my 1.7 so far as they just put up a beautiful large soundstage!! Listening to some Holly Cole (Jazz) right now.
Very nice!! I have some Holly Cole, as well...her stuff is recorded amazingly well, but you already know that She sure sounds great on Maggies.
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post #3937 of 3955 Old 01-23-2015, 04:46 AM
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Bitten by Maggie Bug

A few weeks ago, I had asked about Maggies for home theater - here's my latest update:

I've been completely bitten by the Maggie bug. Here's the new gear that I've acquired:
  • Magnepan 1.6 with Peter Gunn Mods and MYE stands (got an amazing deal on Audiogon)
  • Parasound A21 (drives L/R)
  • McIntosh MC122 (Drives center)
  • Emotiva XPA-2 Gen 2 (drives rear)
  • Marantz MA-200 Monoblock (was going to be center, but is back surround)
And soon to come, a Magnepan CC5 for my center and MC1 for my side surrounds, as I slowly replace my Def Tech setup. I may also get a Marantz MA8801 processor, now that I have enough amps to go separates. This would be an upgrade from an Onkyo TX-NR807 receiver (5 yrs old, 135 watt/channel, 11 channels)

What I've found is that the Maggies are just so easy to listen to, if that makes sense. I never knew what ear fatigue was before, but I think my old setup was prone to that vs. the clarity and resolving power of the Maggies. I just love the wide soundstage.

Now, for a few more questions:
  • Do you think I should go separates? What is everyone's experience here vs. a regular receiver? Keep in mind that I'm mostly using my receiver as a pre-pro out currently anyways. I've been battling ground loop hum along the way of upgrading to amps, and I fixed it with Rat Shack Ground Loop Isolators, but the thought of using XLR cables and the updated Audyssey cal was very appealing to me. Also, I was interested in having the Marantz decode all the video to 1080p rather than my projector (JVC-RS15 - 5 yrs old, 1080p).
  • I was thinking of possibly going to 3.7s in the fronts in the future and moving the 1.6s to wides. My room is 22x23 - does anyone think that's too much speaker in that size room?
  • I've noticed a lot of people have gone the DWM route for the center channel. It sounds like that's a very desirable upgrade. Once I get my new CC5, I may take a hard look at one of those. There's currently one for sale used for $500 ($800 new) that I was looking at. I wonder if that would be something to jump on?

Thanks to everyone for their help along the way, I really appreciate it.
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post #3938 of 3955 Old 01-23-2015, 07:05 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kmiller15211 View Post
A few weeks ago, I had asked about Maggies for home theater - here's my latest update:

I've been completely bitten by the Maggie bug. Here's the new gear that I've acquired:
  • Magnepan 1.6 with Peter Gunn Mods and MYE stands (got an amazing deal on Audiogon)
  • Parasound A21 (drives L/R)
  • McIntosh MC122 (Drives center)
  • Emotiva XPA-2 Gen 2 (drives rear)
  • Marantz MA-200 Monoblock (was going to be center, but is back surround)
And soon to come, a Magnepan CC5 for my center and MC1 for my side surrounds, as I slowly replace my Def Tech setup. I may also get a Marantz MA8801 processor, now that I have enough amps to go separates. This would be an upgrade from an Onkyo TX-NR807 receiver (5 yrs old, 135 watt/channel, 11 channels)

What I've found is that the Maggies are just so easy to listen to, if that makes sense. I never knew what ear fatigue was before, but I think my old setup was prone to that vs. the clarity and resolving power of the Maggies. I just love the wide soundstage.

Now, for a few more questions:
  • Do you think I should go separates? What is everyone's experience here vs. a regular receiver? Keep in mind that I'm mostly using my receiver as a pre-pro out currently anyways. I've been battling ground loop hum along the way of upgrading to amps, and I fixed it with Rat Shack Ground Loop Isolators, but the thought of using XLR cables and the updated Audyssey cal was very appealing to me. Also, I was interested in having the Marantz decode all the video to 1080p rather than my projector (JVC-RS15 - 5 yrs old, 1080p).
  • I was thinking of possibly going to 3.7s in the fronts in the future and moving the 1.6s to wides. My room is 22x23 - does anyone think that's too much speaker in that size room?
  • I've noticed a lot of people have gone the DWM route for the center channel. It sounds like that's a very desirable upgrade. Once I get my new CC5, I may take a hard look at one of those. There's currently one for sale used for $500 ($800 new) that I was looking at. I wonder if that would be something to jump on?

Thanks to everyone for their help along the way, I really appreciate it.
Boy oh boy your'e sure having fun!!!!

I would grab the DWM …. I love my CC5/DWM combo. The CC5 has little to no output below 200Hz and sounds thin on it's own ….. it needs low end support.

Enjoy!

Magnepan 1.7's (LR)
Magnepan CC5/DWM (Center Channel)
Magnepan MC1's (Surrounds)
Rythmik F12 (Sub)
Emotiva UMC-1 (Processor)
Emotiva XPA-2 Gen2 Drives the 1.7's
Emotiva XPA-5 Drives the Center and Surrounds
Oppo BDP-103
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post #3939 of 3955 Old 01-23-2015, 09:05 AM
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[QUOTE=kmiller15211;31085498]A few weeks ago, I had asked about Maggies for home theater - here's my latest update:

I've been completely bitten by the Maggie bug. Here's the new gear that I've acquired:
  • Magnepan 1.6 with Peter Gunn Mods and MYE stands (got an amazing deal on Audiogon)
  • Parasound A21 (drives L/R)
  • McIntosh MC122 (Drives center)
  • Emotiva XPA-2 Gen 2 (drives rear)
  • Marantz MA-200 Monoblock (was going to be center, but is back surround)

You would be best investing in one or a pair of subwoofers and keep the 1.6s.
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post #3940 of 3955 Old 01-23-2015, 09:14 AM
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[QUOTE=kmiller15211;31085498]A few weeks ago, I had asked about Maggies for home theater - here's my latest update:

I've been completely bitten by the Maggie bug. Here's the new gear that I've acquired:
  • Magnepan 1.6 with Peter Gunn Mods and MYE stands (got an amazing deal on Audiogon)
  • Parasound A21 (drives L/R)
  • McIntosh MC122 (Drives center)
  • Emotiva XPA-2 Gen 2 (drives rear)
  • Marantz MA-200 Monoblock (was going to be center, but is back surround)

You would be best investing in one or a pair of subwoofers and keep the 1.6s. Also if you play stereo music with a digital source then find a surround processor that includes support for USB and DSD.

Last edited by TripleFun; 01-23-2015 at 09:55 AM. Reason: update
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post #3941 of 3955 Old 01-23-2015, 10:03 AM
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[quote=TripleFun;31090386]
Quote:
Originally Posted by kmiller15211 View Post
A few weeks ago, I had asked about Maggies for home theater - here's my latest update:

I've been completely bitten by the Maggie bug. Here's the new gear that I've acquired:
  • Magnepan 1.6 with Peter Gunn Mods and MYE stands (got an amazing deal on Audiogon)
  • Parasound A21 (drives L/R)
  • McIntosh MC122 (Drives center)
  • Emotiva XPA-2 Gen 2 (drives rear)
  • Marantz MA-200 Monoblock (was going to be center, but is back surround)

You would be best investing in one or a pair of subwoofers and keep the 1.6s.
I do have a sub - I have an Epik Empire (RIP), but I've considered getting a second (maybe a Rhythmik?).
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post #3942 of 3955 Old 01-23-2015, 11:37 AM - Thread Starter
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I prefer a tube preamp with the Mags. I've never been impressed with the preamp section of any AVR i've heard for two channel music.
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post #3943 of 3955 Old 01-23-2015, 01:00 PM
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kmiller15211

Can we all come over and play?

Magnepan 1.7's (LR)
Magnepan CC5/DWM (Center Channel)
Magnepan MC1's (Surrounds)
Rythmik F12 (Sub)
Emotiva UMC-1 (Processor)
Emotiva XPA-2 Gen2 Drives the 1.7's
Emotiva XPA-5 Drives the Center and Surrounds
Oppo BDP-103
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post #3944 of 3955 Old 01-23-2015, 01:47 PM
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[quote=kmiller15211;31092338]
Quote:
Originally Posted by TripleFun View Post

I do have a sub - I have an Epik Empire (RIP), but I've considered getting a second (maybe a Rhythmik?).

With all the excellent equipment you have, the limited size of the room, and proposed Marantz AV MA8801 (or consider the AV MA8802) I think you need to review the full end to end system perspective rather than tinkering with speakers. Do you really need all those amplifiers (you obviously don't need any heating)? You could look at replacing a lot of the equipment with something like the compact Cambridge Audio CXR200 (which if it is anything like the AVR751 will have no trouble driving the Maggies) and an Oppo 105bd which includes Darbee video and DSD input through the USB port. This assumes you have a digital music source which can upconvert your music to DSD (either Apple or PC with ASIO driver). You should also look at a decent active Digital Room Correction (eg. DIRAC and miniDSP) which will complement Audyssey and be a revelation compared to the Onkyo. Of course, at the end of the day, it is what you hear (or want to hear) rather than how it is produced.
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post #3945 of 3955 Old 01-25-2015, 10:42 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mrlittlejeans View Post
I prefer a tube preamp with the Mags. I've never been impressed with the preamp section of any AVR i've heard for two channel music.
I am with you on tubes! I currently use a Musical Fidelity Int. Amp that has a Tube Section in it, and I have a Rogue Metis Magnum Pre/Amp I use and both do an excellent job with the 1.7s! Very impressed with these speakers, they have such a great value more so than my Dynaudio C2's Platinums speaker that I have. If I wouldn't have got such a great deal on my upgrade I most likely wouldn't have purchased them based on what I am now hearing out of thees 1.7s. $2000 speaker retail verses a $17000 speaker, granted the bass on the C2 is much better, but if I had to buy at retail prices I would have just stuck with the Maggies. Thankfully I didn't and was able to buy both.
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post #3946 of 3955 Old 01-25-2015, 10:16 PM
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Just curious, what the differences are between the 1.7 and 1.7i? LOL I bought these about 6 months ago and dealer stated they wouldn't be re-tweakin these and putting a "i" on them as they did with the higher end models. (Great dealer and a Oh well syndrome from me) I mean these speakers kick (|) for the money, but Magnepan does a pretty poor job of explaining the upgrades like most other manufactures do as well.

Last edited by Garman; 01-25-2015 at 10:35 PM.
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post #3947 of 3955 Old 01-25-2015, 11:23 PM
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I don't worry too much about upgrades. Back when I was auditioning, I had heard the rumor that the 3.7s were coming out in about a year, but went ahead a bought the 3.6s. Wasn't too much later after the 3.7 release that the 3.7i's came out. I was curious, so I auditioned the 3.7s and didn't hear what everyone else seemed to be hearing (the 3.7s were suppose to be a "major" upgrade over the 3.6s). It could have been that they weren't quite broken in yet when I auditioned them, but I was expecting a revelation from reading some of these reviewers. Turned out that I'm glad I didn't wait.
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post #3948 of 3955 Old 01-26-2015, 01:13 AM
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I don't worry too much about upgrades. Back when I was auditioning, I had heard the rumor that the 3.7s were coming out in about a year, but went ahead a bought the 3.6s. Wasn't too much later after the 3.7 release that the 3.7i's came out. I was curious, so I auditioned the 3.7s and didn't hear what everyone else seemed to be hearing (the 3.7s were suppose to be a "major" upgrade over the 3.6s). It could have been that they weren't quite broken in yet when I auditioned them, but I was expecting a revelation from reading some of these reviewers. Turned out that I'm glad I didn't wait.
Reviewers over-stating sonic differences is common and widespread. Small differences are exaggerated, becoming "game changers". I hypothesize it is done because, if there isn't a major difference between an old and new model, or between two competing products, why review it? And why publish the review? It goes beyond just that however, to the personalities of professional reviewer's egos. I remember one former Absolute Sound reviewer stating, at the end of a review of his in the rag he went to after leaving TAS, that he had a vision of Hi-Fi reviewing using a new vocabulary (of his creation, of course), a vocabulary that would revolutionize the very nature of reviewing itself, making the old one (used by everyone but himself) obsolete (I paraphrase). I guess the English language just isn't up to the task of describing reproduced music. Geez, and I thought Pearson was an inflated windbag! Guess that new vocabulary is a work in progress, ay Tom?
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post #3949 of 3955 Old 01-26-2015, 07:13 AM
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dsrussell/BDP24: That sounds about right, first go after those people that can be easily subjectively influenced by word smithing some thing together! Best thing a dealer can do doing a listening session is leave the room, or be quite during the listening. Just curious why Magnepan doesn't publish what they have done internally, it's not like their are knock offs or a ton of counterfeiting going on.
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post #3950 of 3955 Old 01-26-2015, 01:47 PM
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Reviewers over-stating sonic differences is common and widespread. Small differences are exaggerated, becoming "game changers". I hypothesize it is done because, if there isn't a major difference between an old and new model, or between two competing products, why review it? And why publish the review? It goes beyond just that however, to the personalities of professional reviewer's egos. I remember one former Absolute Sound reviewer stating, at the end of a review of his in the rag he went to after leaving TAS, that he had a vision of Hi-Fi reviewing using a new vocabulary (of his creation, of course), a vocabulary that would revolutionize the very nature of reviewing itself, making the old one (used by everyone but himself) obsolete (I paraphrase). I guess the English language just isn't up to the task of describing reproduced music. Geez, and I thought Pearson was an inflated windbag! Guess that new vocabulary is a work in progress, ay Tom?
Everyone depends upon professional reviews to a certain extent. I know I've read my fair share, and then some. Sometimes, after reading a review, I wonder why the reviewer gave this speaker such a high mark (say 4 out of 5 stars). I didn't get the impression that the reviewer liked the speakers all that much, more that there wasn't anything horrible about them and they had a few nice things going for them. Yet, bingo, 4 stars.

I think most reviewers try to be honest, but shoving a speaker under the bus isn't going to give them many speakers to audition and review. Manufacturers will see to that. I also believe most reviewers don't publish a review of a really bad speaker. So the reader must forget the star rating and read between the lines. I think most can tell when a reviewer is excited about a product and when the reviewer may be going through the motions. There's nothing wrong with this. As consumers, we probably feel the same way. We hear a speaker that is pretty good, but not impressive enough for the money to actually buy them.

I must have read almost a dozen reviews on the 3.6s. There wasn't one review that wasn't very positive, and most were glowing. Yet, I really hesitated on even auditioning the Maggies. You've read the reviews. They are not all that easy to setup. You need to assemble the feet (usually a 2-man job) and crossover box. They need to be away from the walls 4 to 6 feet. You need to try them out with the tweeters on the outside, then on the inside. You may need to add the provided resistors to attenuate the high end. They are spectacular for mainly voice and classical music, not as much for rock. They need a high-current amp. Add all that to the to many user comments stating they need different stands, they are better with the socks off, or better with a different crossover, and I wondered why anyone would bother to even audition them. And let's face it, unlike the Martin Logan ESLs, Maggies are very imposing speakers. They don't exactly disappear in a room. They dominate a room.

The day before going out on an appointment to audition the ML Summits, I happened across Andrew Robinson's review of the 3.6s. It cracked me up. I never read a review that had curse words. Not that everything was glowing, but he did put to rest a lot of my concerns, and it was his review alone that I decided to audition the Maggies on the same day of the ML audition. So yes, there are reviewers that can, and did, influence me greatly. After three, two hour auditions at each store over several weeks, I made my decision. Thank you, Andrew .

For those that haven't read this rather unique 2007 review, and might be interested, here it is: http://www.avrev.com/home-theater-lo...dspeakers.html

Garman: Fortunately, the high-end stores I auditioned speakers were pretty good about leaving you alone and giving you time without comment -- although they seem to be enraptured with esoteric cables, elevators and connectors . I have certainly been at stores where the sales staff tries their best to influence you with their B.S.

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Last edited by dsrussell; 01-26-2015 at 01:51 PM.
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post #3951 of 3955 Old 01-26-2015, 07:39 PM
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Good stuff, ds. I first read a subjective review upon discovering Stereophile in '72, when it was a one-man operation, the man being J. Gordon Holt. JGH is still my gold-standard of reviewing, for a number of reasons. First, I knew exactly what his criteria was for judging gear, and it happens to be the same as mine: lack of vowel-coloration first and foremost. Art Dudley, a writer I very much like and respect, subtly disses Gordon for insisting that high-fidelity MUST have lack of vowel-coloration as it's first priority. Much as I like Art, I'm with Gordon on that one. If a speaker adds coloration to a, for instance, vocalist (no Art, not just a female one ;-), I don't care what it does well, it has failed. The Absolute Sound introduced the concept of the almighty soundstage as their apparent priority, never high on my list of requirements from a music system. Until I heard the original Magneplanar Tympani I's driven by ARC electronics, that is. OMG, depth! Gordon gave the only negative review to the Bose 901 in the entire world, and was brutally honest in his review of the Tympani I's, stating that they had the best (least colored) midrange he had yet heard, but that they had no high end, no bass, and were lacking the transparency of electrostatics. Spot on! Gordon's close friend Dick Olsher is one of the few writers whose opinion carries a lot of weight with me. The trick is to find the writers who listen for the same attributes in gear as do you.

Last edited by BDP24; 01-26-2015 at 07:49 PM.
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post #3952 of 3955 Old 01-26-2015, 08:58 PM
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^ BDP: Thanks for sharing! Very interesting read. And you're right, find a reviewer who's after similar sonic attributes, and one can be assured of getting a speaker that might put a smile on your face.

Yes, the 901s came on the music scene like gang-busters in the 60s. Heck, I even bought a pair (series II by then). Totally enjoyed them for what they were. Good dance and party speakers that gave you a huge wall of sound and surprising bass from a small speaker. The problem, of course, is getting them setup properly in order not to hate them (not a small feat). That, and for any serious listening one begins to pick out their faults fairly readily . Still, I'm glad I owned them, but I'm far, far more happy with the Maggies. Yet, it's probably the huge sound stage of the 901s that attracted me to the Maggies.

I sure wish I would have auditioned the Tympani's when I had the chance. I just didn't realize they were speakers. As I stated in one of my posts, I just thought they were a weird looking screen placed to hide junk in the room .

Music area: Magnepan 3.6, McIntosh MC2205 & C48, SVS SB13-Ultra, Oppo BDP 95 and assorted equipment.
Movie area: EMP Tek R5Bi, PSA XS30, Denon X2000, Oppo BDP 83.
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post #3953 of 3955 Old 01-26-2015, 09:31 PM
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Once I heard those Tympani I's, nothing else would do. I bought them, and bi-amped them with a pair of ARC tube amps. But I missed the sound of my Zildjian and Paiste cymbals (I made recordings of my band and other's on a Revox reel-to-reel with condenser mics) on those original Maggies (Gordon was right about their high end), and the deepest bass (though they had great mid-bass---40Hz and up), so sold them after about two years to get a pair of Fulton J's (a legendary speaker with RTR electrostatic tweeters). It didn't take long to miss the Tympani's however, and I later bought a pair of T-1D's, an improved version of the original 3-panel Maggie. Now I have a pair of T-IV's (also 3-panels per side), and I'm keeping them till I die!
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post #3954 of 3955 Old Yesterday, 03:00 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mrlittlejeans View Post
I prefer a tube preamp with the Mags. I've never been impressed with the preamp section of any AVR i've heard for two channel music.
Please explain this. I am thinking of abandoning AVR and moving to tube preamp and very much would love to learn what your impression was when you did. Thanks.
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post #3955 of 3955 Unread Today, 09:26 PM
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OK, Magnemaniacs, one more question:

I'm close to getting my CC5 (center) and MC1 (surround) speakers, and I'm considering a DWM. Options:

1. Hook the DWM up in line with my 1.6s and allow it to deliver the bass. With this, I would set my center speaker crossover on my Marantz 7702 (upcoming) to a high freq and let the L and R speakers do the heavy bass lifting (not counting my subwoofer, which will handle the really low stuff).
2. Dedicate the DWM to the center channel. Split the AV Pre/pro's center output and deliver one channel to the CC5 and one channel to the DWM. I was thinking of using a McIntosh MC122 for this, only 120 w/channel x 2. Note that in this mode, the CC5 wouldn't be getting the crossover, but I don't think it delivers below 200Hz anyways.

Thanks in advance!

- Kurt
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