The Official Magnepan Owners Thread - Page 134 - AVS | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #3991 of 4002 Unread 02-23-2015, 12:18 PM
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Originally Posted by kmiller15211 View Post
So, after going through just about every possible wiring and amp configuration, I tried out a new one this weekend. I figured I'd talk about it here in case it might help someone in the future. If anyone has questions about this, you can also shoot me an email at kurt@kurtmiller.net.

I just recently bought a second DWM and I previously had them split, devoting one half of each to the L or R, and the other half to the center channel. That was giving me a bit of width for the center, which I liked, and also some extra bass for the L and R. However, I didn't realize when I wired it up, that wiring the half of the DWM in parallel with my 1.6 gave me a 2 ohm load on my Parasound A21. To the amp's credit, it never complained or overheated, but it felt like I was probably not getting the best performance out of my setup.

I changed to this 5.1 setup:
* Parasound A21 driving my L and R 1.6 pair.
* Emotiva XPA-2 driving a single DWM (each output of the amp to a single input of the DWM)
* McIntosh MC122 driving my MC1 surround speakers.
* Marantz MA-700 monoblock driving the other DWM, wired to both inputs and a CC5 in series from the high output from the DWM. As strusan pointed out in this thread and other threads (I did a lot of reading this weekend ), this is approximately a 4 ohm load, so the amp is holding it together very well.

I think this is the best setup that I've experimented with yet.

Oh, and don't get me started on the Maggie delamination issues - I've been through a few loose wires, man those things are hard to find! A little DAP Weldwood cement fixed them. I don't think I've gotten all of them yet, but they sound much better.
KMiller,

Do you notice a lot of difference between the sound of an amp driving the 1.6 and the DWM, vs the sound of using a separate amp for each?

Since you use a single DWM for L and R bass reinforcement, do you have it in the middle of the room?

I have two DWMs, and I have always just wired them to the second output of my amp. I have used both an XPA100 mono block set and an XPA 1 mono block set. However I have done one or the other. I have never tried using the XPA1s for the mains and the XPA100s for the DWMs. The reason is because the Emotivas seem to drive the loads so effortlessly. The XPA 1 doesn't even get moderately warm regardless of volume. ( for the record I could get the 100s hot, especially with vinyl). I now use the 100s in a secondary room/system.

However, if you have noticed sonic benefits I will definitely try it.

I have 3.7i's and two DWMs. I set them up in a Limage type arrangement 10.5 feet from FW but aimed directly at listening position. The DWMs are 12 inches closer to me than the speakers, against the wall. Like Don, I have a Rhythmik sub for support below 40 hz.

I would love to know more about your experiences. And yes, I have gone through the relamination process on older pairs.
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post #3992 of 4002 Unread 02-23-2015, 03:07 PM
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Note the DWM is only a 2-ohm'ish load if you connect both inputs in parallel. Used "normally" it presents a 4-ohm load to the amp, crossed over to the upper panels at higher frequencies. There is often a dip around the crossover point although probably more like 3 ohms.

In a 12' x 14' room, say a sitting distance of 6', 100 W should drive a pair of either Maggies to about 100 dB which should be plenty for the OP based on his "moderate" listening volume.

IMO -Don

"After silence, that which best expresses the inexpressible, is music" - Aldous Huxley
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post #3993 of 4002 Unread 02-23-2015, 03:27 PM
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I found an SPL calculator that might be of interest. I cannot attest to its veracity: http://myhometheater.homestead.com/splcalculator.html

Music area: Magnepan 3.6, McIntosh MC2205 & C48, SVS SB13-Ultra, Oppo BDP 95 and assorted equipment.
Movie area: EMP Tek R5Bi, PSA XS30, Denon X2000, Oppo BDP 83.
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post #3994 of 4002 Unread 02-23-2015, 04:30 PM
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An Open note to GibsonES300.

I just tried your CC5/DWM wiring scheme and I am very happy with it. I am not wiring the DWM in parallel. I have split the Center Channel Output or my Processor and I am feeding the split outputs to separate Amplifiers, then feeding both inputs of my DWM. I will leave it like this for a few weeks then see what it sounds like when I revert to my old signal path.

Because of you I am going to purchase a Calibrated UMIK-1 and will learn REW. I hope I don't rue the day I REWed my system. Sorry couldn't resist!. I am curious as to the graphical differences you have reported and I have heard.

I plan on purchasing an XMC-1 when the "Professional upgrade (not LE version) becomes available and when the XMC supports the Mac OS. The Calibrated UMIK-1 will make a nice addition …. don't you think??

Thank You All

Magnepan 1.7's (LR)
Magnepan CC5/DWM (Center Channel)
Magnepan MC1's (Surrounds)
Rythmik F12 (Sub)
Emotiva UMC-1 (Processor)
Emotiva XPA-2 Gen2 Drives the 1.7's
Emotiva XPA-5 Drives the Center and Surrounds
Oppo BDP-103

Last edited by stustan; 02-23-2015 at 05:52 PM.
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post #3995 of 4002 Unread 02-23-2015, 05:48 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by stustan View Post
Because of you I am going to purchase a Calibrated UMIK-1 and will learn REW.
The REW thread can help you with that. Very helpful bunch.

But isn't there a meme/rumor that says that Maggies don't measure well?
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post #3996 of 4002 Unread 02-23-2015, 05:56 PM
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But isn't there a meme/rumor that says that Maggies don't measure well?
Probably …. that would be too easy and nothing is easy when it comes to Maggies!!!! I trust my ears to the best of my ability, but maybe a response curve might be enlightening.

Magnepan 1.7's (LR)
Magnepan CC5/DWM (Center Channel)
Magnepan MC1's (Surrounds)
Rythmik F12 (Sub)
Emotiva UMC-1 (Processor)
Emotiva XPA-2 Gen2 Drives the 1.7's
Emotiva XPA-5 Drives the Center and Surrounds
Oppo BDP-103
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post #3997 of 4002 Unread 02-23-2015, 06:47 PM
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Any dipole speaker (conventional, ESL, or planar-magnetic) is going to have issues (comb filter effects) in most rooms due to cancellation of the front wave by the (reflected) back wave. Treating the wall behind will cure it but a lot of people prefer the sound with the extra reflected energy. My room is heavily treated so any ambience comes from the source, and frquency response and imaging is very good. YMMV.

OTOH the measured distortion of Magnepans and most other planar speakers is very low compared to most conventional speakers, at least within their power handling capability. Large LF signals are their bane...

"After silence, that which best expresses the inexpressible, is music" - Aldous Huxley
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post #3998 of 4002 Unread 02-23-2015, 08:39 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cardiff Kook View Post
KMiller,

Do you notice a lot of difference between the sound of an amp driving the 1.6 and the DWM, vs the sound of using a separate amp for each?

Since you use a single DWM for L and R bass reinforcement, do you have it in the middle of the room?

I have two DWMs, and I have always just wired them to the second output of my amp. I have used both an XPA100 mono block set and an XPA 1 mono block set. However I have done one or the other. I have never tried using the XPA1s for the mains and the XPA100s for the DWMs. The reason is because the Emotivas seem to drive the loads so effortlessly. The XPA 1 doesn't even get moderately warm regardless of volume. ( for the record I could get the 100s hot, especially with vinyl). I now use the 100s in a secondary room/system.

However, if you have noticed sonic benefits I will definitely try it.

I have 3.7i's and two DWMs. I set them up in a Limage type arrangement 10.5 feet from FW but aimed directly at listening position. The DWMs are 12 inches closer to me than the speakers, against the wall. Like Don, I have a Rhythmik sub for support below 40 hz.

I would love to know more about your experiences. And yes, I have gone through the relamination process on older pairs.
The DWM does seem to sound a lot better with a dedicated amp, and maybe some of that is freeing up my Parasound to power only my 1.6s. I have a bit of an unbalanced layout - I have my center DWM right in front of my center CC5, with the CC5 on top of a little dresser-like thing. I then have my L/R DWM in between my center and my left channel. That's the unbalanced part. It doesn't sound bad, though.

I would wire it up and give it a shot.

Last edited by kmiller15211; Yesterday at 07:17 AM.
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post #3999 of 4002 Unread Yesterday, 10:19 AM
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It is actually kind of amazing that I haven't tried it before considering all the experimentation I do. I am going to carry my 100s back down the stairs. Thanks for the suggestion.
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post #4000 of 4002 Unread Yesterday, 07:34 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by stustan View Post
An Open note to GibsonES300.

I just tried your CC5/DWM wiring scheme and I am very happy with it. I am not wiring the DWM in parallel. I have split the Center Channel Output or my Processor and I am feeding the split outputs to separate Amplifiers, then feeding both inputs of my DWM. I will leave it like this for a few weeks then see what it sounds like when I revert to my old signal path.

Because of you I am going to purchase a Calibrated UMIK-1 and will learn REW. I hope I don't rue the day I REWed my system. Sorry couldn't resist!. I am curious as to the graphical differences you have reported and I have heard.

I plan on purchasing an XMC-1 when the "Professional upgrade (not LE version) becomes available and when the XMC supports the Mac OS. The Calibrated UMIK-1 will make a nice addition …. don't you think??

Thank You All
Glad to hear you like it. REW is fun, not just for measuring frequency response, but for all the other parameters you can measure (modal decay times, ETC, phase characteristics, etc). On one hand, you'll be thrilled at the power at your fingertips and how quickly you can make and evaluate changes in your system. On the other hand, you might wish you would have done it sooner when you realize how hard it really is to use those instruments on the sides of your head for making meaningful measurements. It was certainly eye and ear opening for me. For starters, I learned a tremendous amount following the guide on the REW website and the REW threads on AVS.

If I remember correctly, the DWM measured around 10 dB lower than the CC5. Wiring it in parallel brought the levels between the DWM and CC5 more in line. And, as I mentioned before, if the center channel is crossed over around 60-80 Hz, the load on the amplifier won't be too difficult. My Emotiva XPA-5 has had no trouble whatsoever with it. But I can see how your wiring would work fine, as well. Cheers

Magnepan 1.7 | Magnepan CC5 center, DWM woofer | Rythmik F15HP | Magnepan MC1 Sides | Magnepan MMG Rears | NAD T 757 | Emotiva UPA-1 mono's | Emotiva XPA-5 | Sony HW40es | Silver Ticket 120"
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post #4001 of 4002 Unread Today, 10:18 AM
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Anyone have any recommendations for amps for the CC5/DWM combo? My current little Marantz MA-700 300 WPC @ 4 amp is doing OK, but I think it could be improved. XPA-1 or XPA-1L? I'm leaning towards the bigger XPA-1 just in case I ever wanted to grab another one and run monoblocks for my L and R. I'm not sure how well my Parasound A21 400WPC @ 4 would do if I upgraded to, say, 3.7s. I think the dual 1K watt @ 4 monoblocks would be a lot better.
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post #4002 of 4002 Unread Today, 12:05 PM
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Originally Posted by kmiller15211 View Post
Anyone have any recommendations for amps for the CC5/DWM combo? My current little Marantz MA-700 300 WPC @ 4 amp is doing OK, but I think it could be improved. XPA-1 or XPA-1L? I'm leaning towards the bigger XPA-1 just in case I ever wanted to grab another one and run monoblocks for my L and R. I'm not sure how well my Parasound A21 400WPC @ 4 would do if I upgraded to, say, 3.7s. I think the dual 1K watt @ 4 monoblocks would be a lot better.
I am using the XPA-1L with my CC5/DMW combo and I have the two DMW coils run in parallel with the CC5 run off of one of the high-pass outputs. I was worried that the load would be to much, but, it works fine, even in class A mode. As for the A21 handling the MG-3.7s, no problems at all. With the 3.7s crossed over to subs @ 50 Hz I have seen peaks of 110-115db in my 3500 cubic foot room, mind you, not intentionally, couldn't turn it down fast enough, whoa, way too loud. huh, you will have to speak louder, can't hear you.
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