The Official Magnepan Owners Thread - Page 136 - AVS | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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Old 04-11-2015, 10:08 AM
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Damn, Don, you nailed it! That is EXACTLY how I see it.
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Old 04-11-2015, 05:56 PM
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I sure miss my Tympani IVa speakers, as there's no substitute for cubic inch displacement.



And since I sold them I built the 8ft long sub with (4) 18" Stereo Integrity drivers. I have contacted the guy I sold them to and we are waiting till he moves here to retire so that I can buy them back.


Earth: The Insane Asylum of the Universe, nowhere else could things be this screwed up.

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Old 04-11-2015, 06:27 PM
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I'm really hoping my next house will have a room big enough for me to be able to have my T-IV's (not a's, though) set up as woofers.
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Old 04-19-2015, 09:44 AM
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Super MMG to .7...upgrade, sidegrade, or ?

Engage OCD:

I'm planning on having dual subs in my setup (AVR with Audy XT32 dual sub mngmt) in the very near future and I'm looking at the 2 DWMs with the Super MMG as being superfluous. I've done several configuration experiments with REW measurements and I'm not finding a measured justification for having DWMs at all even with the single budget sub I have now. In addition, another motivation to change my front speakers is that I'd like to change the color over to all black since I changed over to a projection setup after the SMMG purchase. My room is 10x12x8 and I'm pretty sure 1.7s would be too large. That leaves the .7.

Is the all QR panel of the .7 a significant sound character difference than the QR/PM combo of the MMG/SMMG? I ask because I had MMGW/MMGC center/surrounds at one point and could never get them to match the main MMGs. Moving to MC1s for surround and going without a center channel made a night and day difference. It's completely seamless now and I'm concerned that the .7's all QR panel might have a little sound character mismatch with the QR/PM of the MC1.

Life is Lambertian
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Old 04-19-2015, 10:08 AM
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I am quite happy with my CC5/DWM center channel, especially regarding matching the LR's and Surrounds (see my signature).

Here is some food for thought: My room is a dedicated music/theater room 11x13x8. I am not using projection, a 60" Sony instead. All my Maggies are black, the walls painted a deep, dark, slate blue ..... and when the lights are dim ....... all those panels simply disappear visually. Don't dismiss the 1.7's too quickly unless their ideal position in your room interferes with the image "throw" of your projection.

I keep a bucket beneath the seat in the main listening position. It is used to catch the jaws of all who hear my system for the first time.

Last side note: An Emotiva XMC-1 w/Dirac Full Live Upgrade and a Cross Spectrum Labs Calibrated UMIK-1 is sitting, boxed, in my home waiting to replace my UMC-1. As soon as work frees up and I install it and "settle it in" I will report back.

Good Luck with your adventure and let us know how it goes!

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Old 04-19-2015, 04:55 PM
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Hi.

Currently I do 60% movies & 40% music.

I am looking at upgrading my fronts... after auditioning a couple of speakers... I had narrowed my selection to Martin Logan - Montis... Then I discovered Sanders Sound M10... and they look very interesting....

I have not heard any Magnepans, and wanted to ask if they are similar to electrostatic speakers... Do you get a 3D effect for Magnepans?

Does anyone have experience with Sanders M10 ? and how would they compare to Magnepans ?

Would Magnepans be good for HT ?

Regards.

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Old 04-19-2015, 06:30 PM
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Sanders and ML Montis are hybrids with built-in woofers. The ESL panels operate from a few hundred Hz on up. The Magnepan 3.7 or 20.7 (assuming those are the models you would find comparable) are also planar dipoles and thus share many of the same characteristics of the ESLs you are researching. Some prefer one or the other. The Magnepan 3.7 or 20.7 are three-way speakers with a ribbon tweeter in contrast to the two-way Sander/ML designs. Some feel Magnepan is a more seamless experience since the panels go from essentially the subwoofer range to ultrasonic.

All dipoles have similar radiation patterns, though ML uses a curved screen and so is less directional than Sanders or Magnepans. It is up to you to decide which you prefer; I would rather hear the image and space built into the recording instead of the listening room but it's a personal preference. Dipoles like Magnepan and Sanders do not radiate much to the sides and top/bottom so are less sensitive to sidewall and floor/ceiling reflections.

Though they do not have the higher sensitivity (and generally higher impedance) of conventional designs all your potential choices are equally suited to music and HT systems. They can provide a more enveloping soundstage than typical speakers. Your best option is to listen to all three if at all possible.

Enjoy the hunt - Don
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Old 04-19-2015, 06:42 PM
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Thanks for info Don.

Looks like there is a local dealer for Magnepan near me... I will take the time to audition them

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Old 04-19-2015, 06:54 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by spike9876 View Post
Thanks for info Don.

Looks like there is a local dealer for Magnepan near me... I will take the time to audition them
Let us know how the audition went. I know that I hopped from the Magnepan dealership to the Martin Logan dealership (actually, it was a McIntosh dealership that sold the Martin Logans) each weekend for 3 weekends before making my decision. I tend to make my auditions lengthy affairs (setup the appointments and brought plenty of different music).

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Old 04-21-2015, 06:12 PM
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Let us know how the audition went. I know that I hopped from the Magnepan dealership to the Martin Logan dealership (actually, it was a McIntosh dealership that sold the Martin Logans) each weekend for 3 weekends before making my decision. I tend to make my auditions lengthy affairs (setup the appointments and brought plenty of different music).
Today I went to audition the 3.7i at a local dealer... I suppose everyone has their own opinion, but... I did not feel impressed. Although I did audition the Montis about 3 weeks ago... I just did not come away the way I felt with ML... specifically the bass, imaging & from what I can remember... ML was clearer...

Obviously, it was a different place, different music and different space...

I was set on ML previously... But... Although I have not heard Rogers M10, I have a feeling that his M10 could be better than ML...

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Old 04-21-2015, 06:21 PM
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This summer I expect to replace my Dahlquist DQ-10 speakers with a pair of Magnepan MG-1.7i speakers. I had mixed feelings about that. The Dahlquists are recently rebuilt for not much less than the Magnepan speakers would cost. Last week I listened to a $2,5000 pair of Martin Logan speakers and after that I knew I was due for a speaker update. The Martin Logan speakers were powered by an inexpensive receiver and played material from an inexpensive blue ray player, even with all those limitations showing through I knew then that new speakers would be an necessary upgrade.

Yesterday I went to another place to audition a the Magnepan MG-1.7i speakers and I liked them very much. I am wondering how much they actually need a DWM woofer?

My power amp will push a very clean 350w into 4 ohms or 250w into 8 ohms. I don't know if I would need one or two DMW speakers and when I add all that up I wonder because I'd be spending almost as much as a $5,000 Martin Logan Theos or I wonder if I should start looking for a pair of low mileage MG 3.7 speakers. I see them selling for $3,500 on Audiogon. I worry perhaps that any used speakers may be abused.

I am tempted to visit White Bear Lake and just to give a listen to a pair of MG 3.7 speakers

I do have a Yamaha YST-SW315 self powered subwoofer laying around, but my Dahlquist speakers never needed it. I don't know if it would play nice with the MG 1.7 or not?

Listening room is 14'x22', speakers (30" wide speakers) sit astride the 65" TV centered on the long wall about 90" center to center, 36" from the back wall, 120" from speaker to my ears. Speakers center line is 84" from each side wall. The room is a home theater of sorts, but I rather think of it as a audiophile listening room with a 65" screen to select songs. I don't foresee anything more than stereo in two channels anytime soon.

I'm web master for a car club, when we stumble across strays they generally benefit greatly from the communal wisdom and experience of the owners who have doing this a very long time. I'm a little lost here and I hope could benefit from the wisdom and experience of this group.

Thank you,

Timothy Wright
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Old 04-21-2015, 06:23 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by spike9876 View Post
Today I went to audition the 3.7i at a local dealer... I suppose everyone has their own opinion, but... I did not feel impressed. Although I did audition the Montis about 3 weeks ago... I just did not come away the way I felt with ML... specifically the bass, imaging & from what I can remember... ML was clearer...

Obviously, it was a different place, different music and different space...

I was set on ML previously... But... Although I have not heard Rogers M10, I have a feeling that his M10 could be better than ML...
Well, I consider that a successful audition . Success is not always positive -- it has crossed a competing speaker (the Maggies) off the list. This allows you to narrow the field and audition the M10 to see how it compares to the Montis. And home auditions are always the best way to audition anything. Good luck!
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Old 04-21-2015, 06:30 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 12B4A View Post
Engage OCD:

I'm planning on having dual subs in my setup (AVR with Audy XT32 dual sub mngmt) in the very near future and I'm looking at the 2 DWMs with the Super MMG as being superfluous. I've done several configuration experiments with REW measurements and I'm not finding a measured justification for having DWMs at all even with the single budget sub I have now. In addition, another motivation to change my front speakers is that I'd like to change the color over to all black since I changed over to a projection setup after the SMMG purchase. My room is 10x12x8 and I'm pretty sure 1.7s would be too large. That leaves the .7.

Is the all QR panel of the .7 a significant sound character difference than the QR/PM combo of the MMG/SMMG? I ask because I had MMGW/MMGC center/surrounds at one point and could never get them to match the main MMGs. Moving to MC1s for surround and going without a center channel made a night and day difference. It's completely seamless now and I'm concerned that the .7's all QR panel might have a little sound character mismatch with the QR/PM of the MC1.
I just assembled a similar setup utilizing a Marantz AV7702 and a Parasound HCA-3500. The Maggies are MC1s and the subs are Pinnacle Baby Boomers. The Audy XT32 set a 200HZ crossover point and the overall sound is absolutely stunning. BTW the AV7702 sounds much better than my Oppo BDP-105D.
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Old 04-21-2015, 06:32 PM
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I have auditioned Maggies at showrooms a number of times through the years, probably 15 or so times. I am fortunate enough to live near NYC so there are a few dealers available. 99% of the auditions were utter disappointments. It is unfathomable, to me, how the dealers can be so inept. The one dealer who consistently offered a good sounding audition was Lyric in Manhattan. I am sure others could chime in with audition "horror stories".

I am not arguing or commenting on your opinion spike9876 ...... I guess I am saying that I am not surprised. My Maggies at home are just wonderful and sublime ...... I wonder how those dealers can get it so very, very wrong.

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Old 04-21-2015, 06:51 PM
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I have auditioned Maggies at showrooms a number of times through the years, probably 15 or so times. I am fortunate enough to live near NYC so there are a few dealers available. 99% of the auditions were utter disappointments. It is unfathomable, to me, how the dealers can be so inept. The one dealer who consistently offered a good sounding audition was Lyric in Manhattan. I am sure others could chime in with audition "horror stories".

I am not arguing or commenting on your opinion spike9876 ...... I guess I am saying that I am not surprised. My Maggies at home are just wonderful and sublime ...... I wonder how those dealers can get it so very, very wrong.
Lyric in Manhattan is where I went
I only entered the room where they had the Maggies... The room was nice, seemed like a good setup... and it appeared their other rooms were nice too.

Sales rep also was very knowledgeable...
No offense taken... Like I said... everyone has their opinion

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Old 04-21-2015, 09:38 PM
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@spike9876 : The Montis is a good speaker, with a 10" dynamic woofer and good-sized ESL panel for about $10k. Years ago ML had issues with bass (IMO) but they have since improved substantially. However, I would have compared them to the 20.7 as well as the 3.7 to bracket the prices. The Sanders hybrid also has a dynamic woofer, plays deeper than the Montis, and is more directional since Roger does not used curved screens. The Sanders crossover point is a little lower so the sound is a bit more seamless IIRC. I am biased toward Sanders (and Maggies, natch) but you won't go wrong with any of them. I always felt the midrange of the ML's (and most ESL's) was great, better than Magnepan's, but I prefer the Magnepan ribbon tweeter. For bass, I prefer Magnepan with a subwoofer crossed fairly low, around 50 - 60 Hz. To my ears that provided a better soundstage and my subs give me an extra octave or so of bass. Most ESL cross over high enough that I find the lower midrange and upper bass sound character tends to change compared to the higher frequencies. I don't get that with the bigger Maggies (3.x, 20.x) and even my first pair of MG-I's seemed to me to have a more seamless image from top to bottom. Those MG-I's are what led to my first subwoofer design, a home-brew servo design based on a dual voice-coil driver from an Infinity IRS.

@Timothy Wright : DQ-10's, haven't heard them in quite a while! One of the audio stores I used to work carried both Dahlquist and Magnepan. While the DQ-10 was an interesting design and I liked them, I ended up with Maggies. Regarding DWM's, I have not heard them, or barely, so can't really comment. However, IMO the money would be much better spent getting a good modern sub. Since building my own servo-sub decades ago I have preferred them with planar speakers and currently have a pair of Rythmiks I am very pleased with. I hold the opinion that a good sub greatly enhances the music -- you get a lot of LF things you don't notice until you have them (plucked strings, drum strikes, piano hammers, subharmonics in the music, etc.)

FWIWFM - Don

"After silence, that which best expresses the inexpressible, is music" - Aldous Huxley

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Old 04-22-2015, 05:25 AM
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Lyric in Manhattan is where I went
Ha Ha Ha! That is awesome!!! Well, not much else to add except ....... please keep us informed as you continue your adventure.

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Old 04-22-2015, 07:20 AM
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@DonH50 : I did want to see the 20.7, but they did not have it... and was told that due to my room size 13' x 18' the 3.7 was a better size.
@stustan : Yes, the hunt continues Most likely will try Rogers M10, but will probably be end of next month...

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Old 04-22-2015, 02:05 PM
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4. Virtually every time a planar speaker sounds "bad" it is due to interaction with the room. Whilst a PITA to set them up, the hour or two spent is rewarded by magic. Or something like that.

5. I have heard ET's. I have no comment because frankly it was long ago and I don't remember them well. I am not competent to comment, something that rarely slows me down, but in this case I really have no opinion either way.

Onwards -Don

IMO, FWIWFM, IME, YMMV, etc. - Don
I decided on the ET's and mostly because they seem more tolerant of my room limitations. Don's comment above, "Virtually every time a planar speaker sounds "bad" it is due to interaction with the room..." got me thinking. I can't change the room characteristics, they're part of the architecture of the house and this is the only place I can setup so I just have to do the best I can with it.

The LFT-8b's I auditioned at my house were from Brooks Berdan, it's funny they've been around that long. When I went to order the new one's the other day the original pair were back in one of the listening rooms, not in a back corner the way they were when I first asked to hear them.

Maybe I'll be able to build the room I want for a pair of Maggie's in the "retirement" house, we'll see.
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Old 04-22-2015, 03:31 PM
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My listening room is pretty poor dimensionally but lots of treatment to dampen the back wave and kill some room modes made a huge difference in the sound. You don't have to rebuild the room to improve the sound. Of course, WAF and other aesthetic/architectural considerations may still cause issues...

"After silence, that which best expresses the inexpressible, is music" - Aldous Huxley
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Funny thing happened today, This winter when I set up my new TV, oppo, amp, and TV stand I left them a good foot, maybe 18" off the back wall so that I can fool with the wires easily. I've been buying a lot of CD's recently, about 300 in the last month. It is a pain but I pull my music off of a USB hard drive plugged in to the back side of the oppo and that gets updated with library additions once a day so I have had the Dahlquist speakers three feet off the back wall so I can in and out of there easily.

Today on a lark I pushed my speakers back toward the wall maybe 12"-18" and Oh My Lawd it's like your high school sweetheart of 45 years ago and she hasn't aged one bit?

I'm not saying maggies are bad, or my speakers are better just that speaker placement is like football in that it is a game of inches. And sometimes I get played.

Only 3 days ago I was on fire to replace my speakers, now not so much. DQ-10 in their day were "phase array" and often said to sound much like maggies, only with base. The last speakers I listened to before I purchased the DQ-10's was a set of maggies but then as now they needed help on the low end. Thirty five years ago the DQ-10 were a complete solution and they had a few other advantages as well.

Back then I lived in the high deserts of NM. The humidity was often in the single digits. I would walk across a room and pet my dog and shock the hell out of him. The dog would look at me like "what the hell did I do to deserve that"? One could dust their house in the morning before work and come home eight hours later and there would be a extremely fine layer of dusty abrasive grit all over everything. The thinking at the time was that those conditions were not optimal for ESL speakers.

About five years ago I found a place (Ragnar) that sold parts to rebuild Dahlquist, I did everything one can do to those speakers and it cost me as much to rebuild them as it did to buy them. I replaced the 10" woofer and the crossovers and I forget what else. I seldom listened to my new speakers because it is such grief to locate a CD, play a CD and put the CD back where it belonged. I have spent years putting all my movies and music on my server, I may have done it three times. I may do it again because just as compressed audio files suck for quality so do compressed video files. If God wanted you to compress you media files he would not invented 6TB hard drives and 8 bay NASs. I started off with all my music files in MP3 format and this winter re ripped them in flac format.

This past Christmas I finally purchased my flat screen living room TV and that whole part of the house started coming together. Everything in the room got turned 90 degrees and a lot of used audiophile separates will go to Audiogon auction block.

I may yet end up with a set of maggies. I have the room and power amp for a nice pair. Yesterday I was trying to find a way to get it done ASAP, while in contrast tonight I have the luxury of time.

On Audiogon there is a seller with a pair of MG 3.7 and a pair of DWM all for $4,800, too bad he is in Singapore.

Not too far from me is a guy with a good price for a pair of used MMGs but they would fit in better in my home office than listening room. I would just need to buy everything else to feed the maggies.

I see a guy in IL with a pair of MG 20.1 to sell for $6,250. That is more than I can casually afford. It may also be too much for a 14' x 22' x 8'4" listening room but then I'd have ample bass and it would quickly eliminate any woman in my life who wasn't serious about her music. I've already eliminated so many wimmin on so many criteria I bound to soon find the perfect woman by process of elimination. ;-)

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Old Today, 06:25 AM
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The Dahlquist DQ-10 was not known for bass (better than smaller Maggies but, noting it has been a looong time since I listened to a pair, IIRC my MG-IIIa's had better and deeper bass than the DQ-10's when I auditioned them). The DQ-10's open design for the upper drivers makes them sensitive to placement (as are any other dipole speakers) and yes inches can matter. I do not care for comb filter effects so tend to kill the back wave. That cleans up the frequency response and provides a much more stable/consistent/correct stereo image but does take away reflections that can make them sound "bigger".

I have not looked for ages, but their used to be quite a cult around the DQ-10 (and later siblings), including a lot of DIY mods. You might want to see what pops up with a Google (or whatever) search. And/or open a new thread here (if there is not one already, I did not look).

Be careful how many women you eliminate; there are laws and such.

"After silence, that which best expresses the inexpressible, is music" - Aldous Huxley
DonH50 is offline  
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Thirty five years ago I intended to purchased the Dahlquist sub woofer and crossover but never did. By the time I went back for it, there were none to purchase.

Much later I did buy a DBX 20/20 RTA and a Yamaha YST-SW315 subwoofer. The DBX told me the same as my ears. The Yamaha even with the crossover frequency turned all the way down added nothing and muddled up a lot.

I may start a Dahlquist Speaker thread, a few folks have listened to mine and went out and found their own. But I suspect we are a very endangered species. When I disassembled my DQ-10s I thought the 10" woofer might fall out on its own. It was in a very bad state of repair so I suspect so would anyone else's unless they have been rebuilt. Mine were already mirrored and had the improved woofer when I purchased them new.

DonH50 > I do not care for comb filter

Are you speaking of the metal grid that covers the top rear of the speakers?

DonH50 > women you eliminate

I was dating someone for two years, then I got a puppy who is now my service dog. The first time she met my dog I knew that I would have to choose. So I kept the better behaved one with the better breath. (joke)

--

I still check audiogon every day, one day a nice set of Maggies will turn up in somewhere near my part of the world at an attractive price.

--

Two things I'd like to see this group use their collective experience to formulate would be guidance on two topics the official Magnepan website avoids.

a) Which Maggie models per room size.

see http://app.audiogon.com/listings/pla...ainfield-il--2

The guy has a pair of MG20 in a closet.

> Love the speakers, just a bit too big for my listening room.

b) how much power (a range) in general for each Maggie model.

The guy near me selling his MMGs tells me he finds them fatiguing to listen to, I suspect he lacks enough amp and they clip on him all the time.

-

And one of your comments was particularly helpful to me. Something along the line that Martin Logans sound fine at very low (doctor's waiting room volume) while Maggies need to reach some minimal threshold before they start to work.

In contrast with (almost) unlimited clean power the Martin Logans will only go so loud, they have a ceiling? But Maggies will keep going with clean louder sound after the ML peak?

I don't think I said that as eloquently and clearly you did but I want to be certain I understand correctly? Years ago when I was in grad school my priorities were not the same as mine are now. Then I would have selected the ML, now I'd pick the Maggies everything else being the same.
Timothy Wright is online now  
 

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Magnepan , Magnepan Mmg , Magnepan Mini Maggie System , Magnepan Mg 1 7 , Magnepan Mg 3 7
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