The Official Magnepan Owners Thread - Page 140 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #4171 of 4195 Old 07-07-2015, 12:04 PM
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Back when I was first getting my old IIIa's I was looking at them, the 20's, and B&W 801's (not sure what flavor back then). I had ruled out Quad for various reasons, most of the other ESLs I liked were out of my price range, and there were few "box" speakers I really liked. After going back and forth I had the bad feeling I was going to have to step up to the 20's as they sounded significantly better even with the same electronics. Even had my wife bless the extra $$$... Then, fool that I was, I got the IIIa's in the same room as the 20's and the vast majority of the differences went away. I was surprised at how similar they sounded, and of course reinforced my belief in the importance of the room.

That said, the difference from the I's that I had, and the II's that I had in my system for a while, to the III's was not small even in the same room using the same electronics. The 3.x is IMO the sweet spot for overall performance without completely dominating the room (relative to how much any panel is going to look) and it is hard to justify 2x the cost for the 20's. Especially in my current (fairly small) room. But, the Sanders will fit just fine, as would a new pair of 3.7's, hmmm... Just need my lottery numbers to hit!

IMO! - Don
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post #4172 of 4195 Old 07-07-2015, 01:26 PM
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I consider the 3.7 the best speaker value in existence. You lose a lot by spending a little less, and you have to spend a lot more to get a little better. I don't know how expensive box speakers sell in view of what the 3.7 offers at it's price, except to people who don't have enough room for big panels. But all the big box speakers need to be out in the room to sound their best too. There is the issue of the power needs of the 3.7, which is considerable, and adds to the system price. IMO the only thing Wilson's (other than the big one's, which I've heard a few times and have to agree are really something, which they had better be at their price!) have going for them is their sensitivity. That is nice, but low sensitivity is not a deal breaker for me.


I wanted to stay with tubes (I already use them on my Quads), which is one reason I got the ET's---the x/o from the M-P panels to the dynamic woofer is at 180Hz, which is at the top end of the bandwidth of the Rythmik/GR Research OB/Dipole sub. I simply use the OB sub in place of the ET's 8" woofer (which I disconnected from the x/o), which reduces the speaker's power needs while increasing it's nominal impedance, from 8ohms to 12 (the impedance of the panels themselves), which the tubes appreciate (they also appreciate the mostly-resistive nature of the load the panels present them). My 100w/ch Music Reference RM200 (the current best value in a tube amp IMO) is enough for the ET's, but I don't think would work with the 3.7, at least in my room (10'H, 13'W, 19'D, carpeted and tube-trapped). I wonder if the RM200 is enough amp for the Sanders!

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post #4173 of 4195 Old 07-07-2015, 07:36 PM
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I ran with a tube amp for years (ARC D-79, 75 W/ch) in addition to various SS amps (ARC, Phase Linear 700, Hafler DH-220, some receivers, Ampzilla while I was building and tweaking it for a friend, Krell, Threshold and ML from the stores I worked, etc.) There was also an Eico EL-34 in the mix for a while). I simply loved the sound in the midrange and the top end was fine, but the bass just never had the control and depth of the big Krell, ML, and other SS amps. My compromise for many years was the D-79 on the midrange and ribbon and a Counterpoint SA-220 (hybrid, tube input, MOSFET output) on the bass. I used several different crossovers during this period, including passive (line-level), homebrew and commercial active SS, and the ARC tube crossover (EC-3). The Counterpoint was not as solid as some of the other SS amps but blended well with the ARC. Now I am using an inexpensive Emotiva and am happy with it.

As an aside, despite the IMO excellent match of tubes to ESLs in the midrange, I had similar problems with tube amps' controlling bass in the bigger panels (think Soundlabs or the full-range ML Monolith) plus felt they got a little harsh in the treble. I eventually figured out the very low impedance ESL's exhibit in the HF region loaded down the tube amps I had tried. The lower impedance tended to roll off the high end a bit but the harshness was still there to my ears. The Magnepan ribbon drops to 3 ohms or so but is not as bad as a lot of ESLs that drop to 2 ohms or less. One of the big panels, not sure if Soundlabs or Martin Logan, dropped to ~0.5 ohms by 20 kHz. Shades of Apogee (another interesting design that would be on my short list if they were still around -- there is a company making very similar models that look much like them, but no dealers around here).

"After silence, that which best expresses the inexpressible, is music" - Aldous Huxley

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post #4174 of 4195 Old 07-08-2015, 01:14 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DonH50 View Post
I ran with a tube amp for years (ARC D-79, 75 W/ch) in addition to various SS amps (ARC, Phase Linear 700, Hafler DH-220, some receivers, Ampzilla while I was building and tweaking it for a friend, Krell, Threshold and ML from the stores I worked, etc.) There was also an Eico EL-34 in the mix for a while). I simply loved the sound in the midrange and the top end was fine, but the bass just never had the control and depth of the big Krell, ML, and other SS amps. My compromise for many years was the D-79 on the midrange and ribbon and a Counterpoint SA-220 (hybrid, tube input, MOSFET output) on the bass. I used several different crossovers during this period, including passive (line-level), homebrew and commercial active SS, and the ARC tube crossover (EC-3). The Counterpoint was not as solid as some of the other SS amps but blended well with the ARC. Now I am using an inexpensive Emotiva and am happy with it.

As an aside, despite the IMO excellent match of tubes to ESLs in the midrange, I had similar problems with tube amps' controlling bass in the bigger panels (think Soundlabs or the full-range ML Monolith) plus felt they got a little harsh in the treble. I eventually figured out the very low impedance ESL's exhibit in the HF region loaded down the tube amps I had tried. The lower impedance tended to roll off the high end a bit but the harshness was still there to my ears. The Magnepan ribbon drops to 3 ohms or so but is not as bad as a lot of ESLs that drop to 2 ohms or less. One of the big panels, not sure if Soundlabs or Martin Logan, dropped to ~0.5 ohms by 20 kHz. Shades of Apogee (another interesting design that would be on my short list if they were still around -- there is a company making very similar models that look much like them, but no dealers around here).

Yeah, ESL's present a brutal load to an amp, ribbons sometimes even worse (especially, as you say, the big Apogee's---almost a dead short!). The old Quads included, whose impedance ranges from below 2ohms (at a very high frequency luckily, as there is little information up there, and that at a very low level) to over 30, I believe it is. If I was to get Sanders ESL's I would seriously look into his SS amp to drive them with. Roger even makes his own speaker cables, whose electrical properties have been tailored and optimized for ESL speakers. I want a pair for my Quads.


Roger Modjeski has written that the common wisdom of OTL tube amps being great for use with ESL's, in particular the old Quad, is an incorrect myth, and explains exactly why. He supports his well-reasoned argument with indisputable facts, and it was a real eye opener to me. I'm sure Ralph Karsten (Atma-Sphere) begs to differ, but Roger has no ax to grind, as he makes both OTL and transformer-coupled tube amps (he's also making a direct-drive ESL now, with a small-power tube amp connected directly to the panels---no transformer in the speaker!). Yes, getting rid of the output transformer in a tube amp provides improvement in some areas of the sound of a tube amp, but it is not without other undesirable sonic penalties. As always, there are trade-offs involved in electronic design, and choices to be made by every engineer of every product.


I still have my old Bedini 25/25 class-A SS amp, which was a long-time favorite with Quads. I'm going to hook it up to my Quads again after my move later this year. If I have room, my Tympani T-IV's are going to be run with a PS Audio 200C amp, a pretty darn nice amp from the 80's, I believe it was. I also have an Electron Kinetics Eagle 2, which has the best low-end of any amp I've ever owned. Bi-amping the Tympani IV's with those two would undoubtedly be killer!

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post #4175 of 4195 Old 07-08-2015, 12:26 PM
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I have little (and bad) experience with OTL amps, including a preamp and amp I built myself. I tried to incorporate a servo circuit with additional protection circuitry so I could DC-coupled my preamp and amp, including the speaker outputs. I'll just say it was a spectacular mistake. There's a reason a big series output cap was incorporated in the OTL designs of the day...

I think a Futterman's output impedance was still too high to adequately control the bass in my Maggies or various other speakers we tried (including planer dynamic, ESL, and conventional). You need a LOT of tubes in parallel plus negative feedback, and I think there were stability issues with the JF amp I tested when driving ESLs and some conventional designs. Sonically I think it was better in the bass than the various conventional tube amps I tried, but it was a short trial a long time ago and my memory is fuzzy. I have never heard an Atma-Sphere amp (would love to someday). I do not know if Atma-Sphere outputs are DC-coupled as well as OTL.

Maggies are a pretty nice load, almost completely resistive, and fairly constant in magnitude until dipping at HF due to the shorter tweeter wire (for QR models) or ribbon (for 3.x and 20.x models, and the short-lived IIR). Their low impedance (4-ohm nominal) and low sensitivity (~83 dB/W/m) needs power, however, though IMO less than often stated. In a modest room my 75 W/ch amp was plenty for me and even my rocker friends who liked it loud.

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post #4176 of 4195 Old 07-08-2015, 01:56 PM
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Atma-sphere is DC coupled along with Transcendent Sound's OTL. I once built the T8 80 watt monoblocks and used them with MMGs a dozen years ago. I think throwing out the OPT (or trying to design around not having one) of a tube amp throws out much of what gives tube amps their character. For the amount of heat generated, you might as well just go with a single-ended solid state amp.

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post #4177 of 4195 Old 07-08-2015, 06:29 PM
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Atma-sphere is DC coupled along with Transcendent Sound's OTL. I once built the T8 80 watt monoblocks and used them with MMGs a dozen years ago. I think throwing out the OPT (or trying to design around not having one) of a tube amp throws out much of what gives tube amps their character. For the amount of heat generated, you might as well just go with a single-ended solid state amp.

The Atma-Sphere M60 uses 8 output tubes per amp/channel---they're mono, for only 60 watts! And that's at 8ohms---it puts out even less (45w) at 4ohms. My Music Reference RM200 uses only a pair of KT88's per channel to make 100w/ch, and the tubes are run conservatively, making for long life.
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post #4178 of 4195 Old 07-16-2015, 03:19 PM
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Magnepan MMG vs Definitive Technology

We would like to compare Magnepan vs Definitive Technology.

We started a thread here

Definitive Technology BP7006's vs Magnepan MMG's

We would appreciate to hear other opinions from people they may have heard and compared both systems.

Thank you
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post #4179 of 4195 Old 07-24-2015, 05:34 PM
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Listened to the .7s for the first time today. Right before those I listened to the Vandersteen 1s which are similarly priced.

I used to own Vandersteen 2s and have also had Def Techs.

I was blown away by the .7s. My first experience with them and they made the Vandys sound dull and lifeless. Very shocked at the sound quality.

Now that I want to purchase them, I have a couple of questions.

1. Has anyone done a surround system with the Magnepans? I'm debating if I want to continue with surround or switch to 2 channel.

2. I listened to the .7s hooked up to an NAD digital amp. I'm debating if I'll go with a surround receiver and an integrated amp. I'm leaning to an NAD or Arcam amp, can't decide on a receiver since the NADs are a little quirky and I'm not sure how the .7s will sound with a Marantz or Denon receiver (like the Marantz 7008).

Opinions appreciated.
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post #4180 of 4195 Old 07-24-2015, 08:29 PM
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Welcome to the club!

1. Many of us have Magnepan surround systems. Mine is 7.2 using MC1's as surrounds and rears with a pair of Rythmik subwoofers. A lot of folk think they are worth the significantly higher price compared to the MMG W's. I couldn't say since I started with the MC1's.

2. They'll do fine with most upper-end AVRs. Magnepans are 4-ohm nominal but don't dip much lower. They are not terribly efficient so you do need a decent 4-ohm capable amplifier section. Any THX-rated AVR should do.

They are dipoles, so are sensitive to room placement, particularly if the wall behind them is not treated. As planer dipoles they are less sensitive to sidewall (and ceiling/floor) treatment.

HTH, IME/IMO etc. - Don

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post #4181 of 4195 Old 07-24-2015, 09:09 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hiprecked View Post
Listened to the .7s for the first time today. Right before those I listened to the Vandersteen 1s which are similarly priced.

I used to own Vandersteen 2s and have also had Def Techs.

I was blown away by the .7s. My first experience with them and they made the Vandys sound dull and lifeless. Very shocked at the sound quality.
The .7s were one of the big hits at this years Irvine/Newport Audio Show. There were two separate exhibits going on (two audio stores) and both were running .7s (one using Maggie bass panels, the other using JL Audio subs), and doing a bang up job of getting people in the door (very busy when I was there). These speakers really sounded great, so Magnepan may be taking a little business away from their 1.7s. I consider the $1400 price tag / pair (with standard feet) a steal. Then again, I feel the $2,000 per pair for the 1.7s to be a steal as well.

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post #4182 of 4195 Old 07-25-2015, 09:08 PM
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Picked up my .7s today. Decided to drive them with the NAD D7050 digital two channel amp. Same amp I auditioned them with.

Before I left, I listened to the 1.7s in a different room with different electronic (higher end stuff). I noticed they lacked some bass presence that the .7s had in a much smaller room.

The dealer said he really prefers the Magnepans with a sub. It was hard to disagree, I'm not looking for a hard driving boomy sound, but I could tell there was a little low end missing and my room it pretty large. I'll note that he prefers a high quality sub with most everything he sells - he is picky on which one and likes the RELs.

So he sold me the REL T9 for a decent price and off I went.

I know the .7s need to be broken in so I hooked them up and let them run for a while. (I know they need more time) I also took my best shot at placement based on the advice from the dealer. (I'm using Kimber Kable for the speaker wires)

So -- I decided to listen to them and was absolutely floored. Even not totally broken in, they are amazing, unlike anything I've had in 30+ years of audio. Vocals are stunning as was acoustic guitar and piano. Imaging is great, I completely lost any sense of where the speakers were. The NAD is a superb match, it is dead quiet.

The REL sub is still in the box. The .7s are fine on acoustic and vocal material. When I played something more electric or bass heavy (like Muse) I noticed the low end being a little weak. Not terrible and I'm sure breaking them in will help that. But for the room size, I think the sub will be the final piece.

I can now see why everyone on this thread is such a fanatic of Magnepans. The quality of the .7s at $1400 is unbelievable.
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post #4183 of 4195 Old 07-26-2015, 08:22 AM
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The difference in bass you heard was the room and placement, not the speakers.

It is hard to explain their sound until you get them and live with them a little. I have owned much more expensive systems and always came back to my Maggies.

I would not expect a lot of difference with break-in. The low end will creep down a hair, the high end up a hair, and some people report "smoother" sound. IME the difference is measurable but not (or barely) audible. The biggest thing you can do right now to dial in their sound is to adjust placement: distance from the rear wall, space apart, distance to the listening position, and toe-in can all make dramatic differences in the sound depending upon your room and how it is treated. My room is very dead and minor tweaks in position matter little, but in most rooms (including most of my previous rooms) placement was a Big Deal and I spent a lot of time dialing them in. Note that if you are getting great imaging now, no funny business over frequency, then you might as well leave them there and enjoy!

I have had a good sub with my Maggies from my first pair of MG-I's on. There is just too much missing without a good sub (you'll notice it more if you add the sub, listen a while, then turn it off). And that was decades before HT was around (got them in 1979). String bass, piano hammer strikes, plucked guitar, drums, and of course orchestral and organ music benefits greatly from a sub. Another reason is that all panels, Magnepan/planer dynamic, ribbon, or ESL, exhibit very high distortion when LF sound is played loudly (and remember you need to play lows much louder than midrange just to have them sound the same to your ear/brain system). My views on what makes a good sub and what is needed to properly integrate a sub into the system is documented elsewhere in this and other threads. My advice is no better or worse than others' (it is pretty well understood by most of us).

Enjoy them! - Don

"After silence, that which best expresses the inexpressible, is music" - Aldous Huxley
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post #4184 of 4195 Old 07-26-2015, 10:34 AM
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Welcome to the world of panel speakers and Maggies in particular . As Don indicated, a subwoofer will make a great speaker even better. My Maggies can play down to around the mid 30 Hz range (34 Hz, so say the specs), which should reproduce all musical instruments besides a pipe organ and synthesizer. Yet, adding a subwoofer seemed to be a bigger improvement than I initially thought, so you were wise to get a subwoofer. I think the REL will work very nicely for you (although it wouldn’t have been my first choice because of price/performance ratio). I do cross my sub over at a much lower frequency than most. I discovered that if I crossed over too high (50 or 60 Hz), I lost what my bass panels provided — a unique bass signature fully coherent with the midrange panel, and that didn’t make me happy. So I crossed over at 40 Hz and got the best of both worlds — letting the Maggies do their thing and providing what the Maggies couldn’t give. Your mileage may differ.

Anyway, you are doing it right, and that’s not trying to integrate your subwoofer too quickly. You need to know that your Maggies are performing their best without adding the subwoofer. Heck, I had my Maggies for 3 years before I purchased a sub. And Don’s advice on placement is spot on. Play around with placement, until you feel you’ve extracted the best from your .7s, then integrate your sub.

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post #4185 of 4195 Old 07-27-2015, 01:54 AM
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Hi all, tried to look for an answer in this (long!) thread, as well as others on the forum, but I guess I'm looking for impressions from other users with similar setups.

I am putting together an entry-level magnepan setup, 2xMMG, a MMGC and a bass panel, to be used in a living room as a home theater (70%) + music (30%) setup. As I have neighbors, volumes will be moderate, what I am primarily looking for is sound clarity and definition, especially from the center channel.

What I want to ask is - can I get away without separate amplification, and use only an AVR. I have looked at several mid-range models (from Onkyo, Yamaha, Denon, Marantz, NAD) - and at the moment have a preference for the last two - either a NAD 748/758 or a Marantz 5009. Can I get away with less? Denon 3100 or Yamaha v759? What are other people using and what is your experience? My concern is sufficient power not AVR features - I'm pretty clear on those.

Thanks!
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post #4186 of 4195 Old 07-27-2015, 02:24 AM
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^ Wow, you read this entire thread? You are made of sterner stuff than I .

This is a A4L writeup on the Denon X3100 AVR: "The powerful 7 channel amplifier section features identical power amp design on all channels along with high current discrete power output devices. Rated at 105 watts per channel (8 ohms, 20 Hz~20 kHz, .08% THD), the AVR-X3100W is also rated to drive lower impedance speakers, down to 4 ohms."

The last part holds the most interest, because Maggies are all 4 Ohm speakers and have a low sensitivity rating of around 84 to 86 dB. Fortunately, they don’t dip too far below that 4 Ohm specification, so it appears (if that writeup is true and not hyperbole) that the X3100 for $400 should work fairly well, especially since you do not plan on listening at very loud volumes: http://www.accessories4less.com/make...airplay/1.html However, I would talk to each AVR manufacturer that you are interested in (including Denon) to see what they say about a 4 Ohm load. It's usually better coming from the horse's mouth.

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post #4187 of 4195 Old 07-27-2015, 07:06 AM
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Well, that question comes up fairly often, but probably not with your specific components. Most any AVR will handle 4 ohms even if not explicitly rated for it. Some may have current limiting that reduces their output, but usually that is not a problem at moderate volume. The big caveat is the additional power Maggies need due to their low efficiency as dsrussell stated. That is somewhat offset by their radiation pattern that sends more direct signal at the listener than conventional designs, making their sensitivity effectively a little higher. Still won't match the 90+ dB typical of many conventional speakers.

I would try with your preferred AVR, see how everything sounds, and make sure the AVR does not run too hot. However, if you are buying a new AVR, I would look for one rated to handle 4 ohms, and/or a good return policy if it does not work out. I also agree with dsrussell's final advice about contacting the AVR dealers/manufacturers though they are likely to just repeat the specs. Note the NAD does rate "dynamic" power into 4-ohm loads; the Marantz only lists 6-ohm specs.

Aside: Although the bass panel for the center is not a bad idea, I would personally spend the funds on a decent subwoofer. IME/IMO that will add much more to the overall sound than a Maggie bass panel so would be higher in priority to me.

FWIWFM - Don
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post #4188 of 4195 Old 07-27-2015, 04:22 PM
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I had a long discussion with my dealer on the AVR topic. He said he likes to use quality electronics to drive the Magnepans and in he low end was fine with NAD which they demo the lower end Magnepans on.

Nice part about the D7050 (not an AVR, just an integrated amp) is that NAD only rates it a 4 ohms in the manual.

Other thing of note that we discuss is the power supply in the electronics. Sadly many of the AVRs are underpowered when they are driving multiple channels. NAD does a better job, you can see it in their dynamic headroom and the size/quality of the transformers they use

There are many other great brands of equipment. I also like Arcam but this dealer doesn't sell it.

Lots of YMMV in this!
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post #4189 of 4195 Old 07-27-2015, 06:15 PM
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New to this forum,
but have some amp questions, with 3.6r, I have a late "70's" legacy amp..
Sansui AU 20000, 170 watts into 8ohms with same rating into 4ohms(170watts), according to manual/specs. This amp is currently being rebuilt ie.new capacitors, any opinions? good bad etc..I have not used this amp with the maggies so far
Thanks
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post #4190 of 4195 Old 07-27-2015, 08:12 PM
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It was a good amp in its day, about 40 years ago when it was last made. It was in their Professional Series, Sansui's attempt to break into the high-end market, and the top of that line (which included the relatively famous AU-9900). High power for then, and today, and very wide bandwidth. Weighs a bunch (50 pounds). By today's standard the SNR (80 dB) and crosstalk (60 dB) are on the low side (but probably not a sonic limitation even now). I know there were concerns about it's ability to drive low-impedance loads but I do not recall anyone having problems (the caveat is I saw very few of them so very small sample size). The friend I had with one was driving a pair of MG-II's and had no complaints. My memory of its sound is very suspect, as I last heard one decades ago, but I seem to recall a high-frequency grain/noise. You can turn down the treble a bit or use the resistor in series with the tweeter (included with the Maggies) and it should work out. My biggest concern would be the sheer age of the thing means something else may go wrong but use it while you have it.

HTH - Don

"After silence, that which best expresses the inexpressible, is music" - Aldous Huxley

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Update on my electronics attempts with the .7s.

The NAD D 7050 I was using has been returned. Sound was awesome, but ergonomically the thing is a mess. It doesn't work with Harmony remotes (correctly) and also power cycled itself once for no reason. The Harmony issue is a known problem.

So I moved on to the new Marantz SR5010. Marantz now says they can drive 4 ohms. The SR5010 comes with some awesome inflated power numbers of 200w a channel (no chance), but it has a great feature set and everything worked well. Sonically it's not terrible, but doesn't make the .7s sing as well as the NAD amp did. Presentation feels more rock concert like, amp is very forward on the lower end, but vocals are more distant and mixed into the music. The wide soundstage of the NAD was gone with the Marantz. The Marantz isn't a terrible AVR, just not capable of doing the .7s justice.

So I'm moving on to the NAD T758 in an attempt to find a nice middle ground. If that doesn't work, I will try the Arcam AVR380 which blew me away listening to it at Magnolia today (Magnolia of course didn't have any in stock and saved me $1900!)

They also had a Rotel Integrated at Magnolia, but I did not listen to it.

More to come.
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post #4192 of 4195 Unread Today, 08:13 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hiprecked View Post
Update on my electronics attempts with the .7s.

The NAD D 7050 I was using has been returned. Sound was awesome, but ergonomically the thing is a mess. It doesn't work with Harmony remotes (correctly) and also power cycled itself once for no reason. The Harmony issue is a known problem.

So I moved on to the new Marantz SR5010. Marantz now says they can drive 4 ohms. The SR5010 comes with some awesome inflated power numbers of 200w a channel (no chance), but it has a great feature set and everything worked well. Sonically it's not terrible, but doesn't make the .7s sing as well as the NAD amp did. Presentation feels more rock concert like, amp is very forward on the lower end, but vocals are more distant and mixed into the music. The wide soundstage of the NAD was gone with the Marantz. The Marantz isn't a terrible AVR, just not capable of doing the .7s justice.

So I'm moving on to the NAD T758 in an attempt to find a nice middle ground. If that doesn't work, I will try the Arcam AVR380 which blew me away listening to it at Magnolia today (Magnolia of course didn't have any in stock and saved me $1900!)

They also had a Rotel Integrated at Magnolia, but I did not listen to it.

More to come.
Hi - try and see if you can get a listen to Cambridge Audio. The 751r is on a par with the larger Arcams. Also the 751r replacement CXR200 I believe is also worth a listen. Both will handle 4 ohms and both have an effortless sound quality. Note since the 751r has been replaced you may be able to get it at discount. Also while the 751r does not have a network connection it does support a USB DAC interface.
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post #4193 of 4195 Unread Today, 09:07 PM
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I don't remember if you said you were comitted to new or not? Or a less beefy AVR with pre-outs for an external amp that can better drive the Maggies?
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post #4194 of 4195 Unread Today, 09:09 PM
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I don't remember if you said you were comitted to new or not? Or a less beefy AVR with pre-outs for an external amp that can better drive the Maggies?
I'm considering all options -- and enjoying looking. I have been looking at some used stuff on Audiogon. Little tougher when I can't audition it. Feel free to throw ideas at me.
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post #4195 of 4195 Unread Today, 09:17 PM
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They also had a Rotel Integrated at Magnolia, but I did not listen to it.
Back in the Stone Age I used a Rotel integrated with my SMG IIIa. Don't recall exactly but maybe the RA-870. Was a happy union back then.

With my current 4Ohm speakers I've used Belles, Parasound and Krell amps very happily. But no AVR.
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