The Official Magnepan Owners Thread - Page 150 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #4471 of 4488 Old 01-30-2016, 08:13 AM
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Originally Posted by DonH50 View Post
If we go by weight, 1 grain is 0.00014285714286 pounds, so a pound of salt is 7000 grains, and salt blocks out in the field range up to about 50 pounds, so about 350,000.
Ha Ha .... well done Don!!! I always knew we, the lovers of Maggie's and the denizens of this forum, are a bunch of Blockheads!!! I promise to stay on course and not wander off our thread content.

Listened to Ben Howard last night ..... an interesting night of music! I am probably nuts but I find different recordings demand different speaker locations to help the soundstage "congeal". It's "fun" to experiment.

Magnepan 1.7's (LR), Magnepan CC5/DWM (Center Channel), Magnepan MC1's (Surrounds), Rythmik F12 (Sub), Emotiva XMC-1 (Processor), Emotiva XPA-2 Gen2 Drives the 1.7's, Emotiva XPA-5 Drives the Center and Surrounds, Oppo BDP-103, Sony PS4
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post #4472 of 4488 Old 01-30-2016, 02:21 PM
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In my quest for gathering as much info as possible on the line up....any Mini Maggie system owners?
I'd like to know how these fair in a small room, both for music and HT applications. My room fits the 'size requirements' at approx 175 sf and having them on good stands makes me feel better about not having to worry about the cat. Just how good are these little maggies? The reviewers compare them to the larger 3.7's, so does that mean when they are set up and dialed in properly that may sound better than some MMG's? If not being used as a desktop system, they are recommended to use with 2 DWM bass modules rather than 1 for 'whole room' applications, but again could these be used with a good subwoofer instead of the DWM panels? What about using a DWM and a subwoofer together?

Here' a review and set up guide that Magnepan recommends -
http://www.hifiplus.com/articles/mag...d-playback-53/
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post #4473 of 4488 Old 01-30-2016, 05:26 PM
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Originally Posted by marksas View Post
Again, for you seasoned veterans...are the MMGW or MMC1's as engaging as the MMG's for main fronts? I'm more critical of music than movies/tv so how they perform musically takes precedence. Also, is it possible to use (1) MMGW or C1 mounted horizontally on the wall as a center channel? I've read some people here say they've just gone with a traditional box center channel, if that's the case, any recommendations?

As others have already mentioned, I would not recommend a box speaker as a center with Magnepans. I have maggie 1.7's in my living room and used an Infinity IL-36C center channel for a while. It's a decent center channel speaker, three way with two ceramic metal woofers, a ceramic metal mid and a CM dome tweeter. It sounded just OK. I switched to a magnepan CC3 center and WOW was there a big improvement. There was one continuous sound image across the front of the room with the CC3 where that was not the case with the Infinity center.

Main system: Thiel 3.6 L/R speakers, Pair of Velodyne F1500r subs, B&W HTM center, Emotiva and Polk RTi 28 surrounds, Integra DHC 9.9 pre/proc, Pair of Emotiva XPA-1's, Emotiva XPA-5, Threshold SA/4e, pair of Threshold S/200's, Oracle Delphi TT w Magnepan Unitrac 1 arm and Shure V15 - Vmr, Logitech Squeezebox Touch, Oppo BDP 83 optical disc player, Threshold T2 preamp, Denon DR-M44HX cassette, Pioneer CLD-97 Laserdisc. LG PF1500 led projector,Elite 100"tab tension-ed motorized screen.
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post #4474 of 4488 Old 02-03-2016, 04:56 PM
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Hypothetical... (or not)

A nice set of Magnepan 2.7s is in a garage. The garage door is left open during a storm. Water blows in. The panels are soaked.

They are allowed to dry.

What is the likelihood of permanent damage? Is it repairable? Will the water corrode the panels going forward?
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post #4475 of 4488 Old 02-04-2016, 07:18 AM
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Originally Posted by PerryH View Post
What is the likelihood of permanent damage? Is it repairable?
It all depends upon how hard you hit the person who left the garage door open.

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post #4476 of 4488 Old 02-04-2016, 08:55 AM - Thread Starter
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Are the panels MDF? If so, I would expect if they got wet that they could have expanded or warped. I have no idea what that would do to the mylar stretched between.

Absence of evidence is not evidence of absence

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post #4477 of 4488 Old 02-04-2016, 11:48 AM
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Originally Posted by stustan View Post
It all depends upon how hard you hit the person who left the garage door open.
Love it.
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post #4478 of 4488 Old 02-04-2016, 09:26 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PerryH View Post
Hypothetical... (or not)

A nice set of Magnepan 2.7s is in a garage. The garage door is left open during a storm. Water blows in. The panels are soaked.

They are allowed to dry.

What is the likelihood of permanent damage? Is it repairable? Will the water corrode the panels going forward?
The water will most likely leave residue over everything. Not good for the panels but not likely killer either. The tweeter is most susceptible. As mentioned the supporting structures could be damaged, weakened and/or warped. Wires in the panels are typically encased in adhesive and should be OK. Crossover capacitors might not appreciate being soaked, and exposed wiring in the crossover, to the connectors, and the the panels could corrode but should be fine (aside from a bit of oxidation) when they dry out. Make very sure the panels are completely dry before using them. The fabric and wood could mold/mildew. Probably need a new box. Stored in the house.

An ESL would probably be in much worse shape...

"After silence, that which best expresses the inexpressible, is music" - Aldous Huxley
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post #4479 of 4488 Old 02-04-2016, 10:11 PM
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I had an exciting field trip today, I wanted to report in, hopefully with out ruffling any feathers.

First a little background. In 1981 I purchased a pair of Dahlquist DQ10 speakers. At the time I loved them to death but over time they got old and maybe about 8 years ago they got a "frame up" overhaul/restoration. It may have cost me $1,200- $1,400 for the pair. Not much less in cost than a pair of new 1.6 or 1.7 maggies.

But honestly I don't know that they now sound as good as they did when brand new, which was my expectation. They sound good, just not magic?

From everything I have read on the internet some folks flat out prefer the maggy 1.7i over the maggy 3.7i even at the same price. $2k is with in my budget for two channel audiophile/ home theater setup.

Before I cut a check for $2k I wanted to at least listen to a pair of 3.7i and other speakers in that price range.

I have listened to Martin Logan ElectroMotion ESL at $2.5k a pair at Best Buy and I liked them. But Best Buy was driving all the speakers in the store with a budget 7.1 receiver and why not just use something homemade? A good two channel Heath kit tube amplifier would have been an welcome upgrade.

So I made a 200 mile pilgrimage (each way) to a place with a much better selection of high end speakers and the first problem is that I brought all of my music on a 3TB Western Digital hard drive; after all every optical drive or DAT or pre amp worth having has a USB input?

Well we lost a lot of time fooling with that and never got it to work, I have a few CDs in pick up truck.

I may have spent two hours listening to the 1.7i and I liked it a lot, is it better than what I have, Oh yes! Is it $2k better, depends on how much one values their money.

I wanted to at least hear the 3.7i, I doubted it would be worth the $4k difference based on what I read in reviews. I don't think it took 30 seconds, I don't think it took 5 seconds for me to fall 100% in love. This is what I have been searching for all my life. (well at least in speakers)

I kept on wanting to turn up the 1.7i to get just a little more of everything. I kept on turning down the 3.7i because "everything" was "right" at even much lower SPL. The 3.7i had a full lower registers, the powerful clear top end with out being shrill, the detail and image all over the middle where I could detect every individual voice in a choir, and individual instrument in a trio or quartet.

It is late here, I drove 400 miles today, my brain is numb and I don't want to throw out a whole lot reckless superlatives or half jelled analysis that I will have to defend or retract later. Based on reviews I read I never expected the 3.7i at three times the price to be able to justify the cost difference. I semi hoped for better but three time better than an excellent speaker? I had the money in my pocket to buy the 1.7i. Instead I'll come back later for the 3.7i when I can afford them. They are worth saving for in my opinion.

Last edited by Timothy Wright; 02-06-2016 at 06:03 PM. Reason: change USP to USB, fix typo
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post #4480 of 4488 Old 02-05-2016, 02:09 AM
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^ Thanks for posting your experience, Timothy .

I was very impressed with the 1.7. I was just as impressed with the .7 that I heard last year. Both are excellent and both are very reasonably priced for the sound quality they each produce. Both are a great value. However, your auditioned mirrored mine. At the time (almost 6 years ago) I was deciding between the just released 1.7 or the Magnepan 3.6 (3.7s were a year away from being released). Once I heard the 3.6, I simply couldn’t see me owning any other speaker.

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post #4481 of 4488 Old 02-05-2016, 07:20 AM
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When I was auditioning the 1.7's my two dealers wanted me to audition the 3.7's .... just "for fun". I refused, and refused, and refused their offers because I was afraid ..... very afraid that my reaction would mirror your experience Timothy Wright!

I felt my room (11x13x8) would be too small for the 3.7's. Many have said that my room is too small for 1.7's, let alone an almost full 5.1 Maggie experience. After much tweaking, speaker placement fiddling, and room treatments I can say: It was .... but now it is not!

Now after about 4 years of a daily "stable" setup I sometimes wonder if I should go and give the 3.7i an audition. I won't because I am just too happy with the way my system/room sounds.

In my early teens my very first 'audio epiphany" occurred when I heard the DQ 10's at a, now long gone, Brooklyn hi-end audio dealer.

I wish you the best of the best Timothy ...... keep us all informed!
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Magnepan 1.7's (LR), Magnepan CC5/DWM (Center Channel), Magnepan MC1's (Surrounds), Rythmik F12 (Sub), Emotiva XMC-1 (Processor), Emotiva XPA-2 Gen2 Drives the 1.7's, Emotiva XPA-5 Drives the Center and Surrounds, Oppo BDP-103, Sony PS4

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post #4482 of 4488 Old 02-05-2016, 08:16 AM
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Nice when somebody finds their true love.

I have not heard the latest versions of the 1.x and 3.x models, but for me the bigger panels, deeper bass, and ribbon tweeter always won out. I started with MG-I's (1977 model purchased used in 1979) and my debate was between the IIIa's and the 20 at the time (late 80's). The II wasn't really in the running (I had II_somethings in my system though did not own them -- the guy I boght my I's from had upgraded to II's as well). The step up in performance to the 3 was too large, and the further step to the 20's, while great, was not enough to justify their cost (especially when I did not have a large room).

I was never a huge fan of the DQ10's, with or without their optional "sub" woofer. I did like them, they had a nice sound, but always struck me as one of those designs that did most everything well but nothing truly great. They broke ground in a lot of ways and deserve a lot of credit for that (here's to you, JD), but I just never felt they stood out enough from the pack. At that time we had a number of ESLs, Magnepan, and some good conventional speakers in the store or around the area. Dahlquist was always on the list of speakers to hear, but few purchased them, and for me they sort of fell into a hole among the bigger panels and more dynamic box speakers. I could have gotten a great deal on them (working for the store), but Maggies had the Magic.

FWIWFM - Don
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post #4483 of 4488 Old 02-05-2016, 11:01 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Timothy Wright View Post
I had an exciting field trip today, I wanted to report in, hopefully with out ruffling any feathers.

First a little background. In 1981 I purchased a pair of Dahlquist DQ10 speakers. At the time I loved them to death but over time they got old and maybe about 8 years ago they got a "frame up" overhaul/restoration. It may have cost me $1,200- $1,400 for the pair. Not much less in cost than a pair of new 1.6 or 1.7 maggies.

But honestly I don't know that they now sound as good as they did when brand new, which was my expectation. They sound good, just not magic?

From everything I have read on the internet some folks flat out prefer the maggy 1.7i over the maggy 3.7i even at the same price. $2k is with in my budget for two channel audiophile/ home theater setup.

Before I cut a check for $2k I wanted to at least listen to a pair of 3.7i and other speakers in that price range.

I have listened to Martin Logan ElectroMotion ESL at $2.5k a pair at Best Buy and I liked them. But Best Buy was driving all the speakers in the store with a budget 7.1 receiver and why not just use something homemade? A good two channel Heath kit tube amplifier would have been an welcome upgrade.

So I made a 200 mile pilgrimage (each way) to a place with a much better selection of high end speakers and the first problem is that I brought all of my music on a 3TB Western Digital hard drive; after all every optical drive or DAT or pre amp worth having has a USP input?

Well we lost a lot of time fooling with that and never got it to work, I have a few CDs in pick up truck.

I may have spent two hours listening to the 1.7i and I liked it a lot, is it better than what I have, Oh yes! Is it $2k better, depends on how much one values their money.

I wanted to at least hear the 3.7i, I doubted it would be worth the $4k difference based on what I read in reviews. I don't think it took 30 seconds, I don't think it took 5 seconds for me to fall 100% in love. This is what I have been searching for all my life. (well at least in speakers)

I kept on wanting to turn up the 1.7i to get just a little more of everything. I kept on turning down the 3.7i because "everything" was "right" at even much lower SPL. The 3.7i had a full lower registers, the powerful clear top end with out being shrill, the detail and image all over the middle where I could detect every individual voice in a choir, and individual instrument in a trio or quartet.

It is late here, I drove 400 miles today, my brain is numb and I don't want to throw out a whole lot reckless superlatives or half jelled analysis that I will have to defend or retract later. Based on reviews I read I never expected the 3.7i at three times the price to be able to justify the cost difference. I semi hoped for better but three time better than an excellent speaker? I had the money in my pocket to buy the 1.7i. Instead I'll come back later for the 3.7i when I can afford them. They are worth saving for in my opinion.
Yep I did the exact same thing as you about 3 months ago and I could not get myself away from the 3.7i's...


Plus I think they look great in my room
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post #4484 of 4488 Old 02-06-2016, 10:42 AM
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I am pleased that my field trip report did not offend anyone. I'm still stunned from the great listen. Everyone make these small footprint home theater speakers that could sold by altitude, they make them in one foot tall increments and just keep adding additional 5" drivers to the stack. I don't think bigger is always better but it is with Magnepan speakers.

I did not expect such a noticeable improvement going from the 1.7i to the 3.7i. One of my favorite test cuts is on Ray Brown's "Super Base 2" CD from Telarc. It is a live CD of 3 jazz greats each playing upright bass. Now this will either sound great or sound like Schlitz. They (the trio) do their own version of "papa was a rolling stone" and on the 3.7i one can clearly hear each of the three upright basses play every single note. If the 3.7i need more base I could not tell from that song. The fact that it is a well recorded live recording and the performers are greatly enjoying themselves is just the zest to make the performance really satisfying.

There is another group; a resource for test cuts, Howard Johnson & Gravity, of all things a tuba trio. One could argue that people should have to apply for a permit to enact such ideas. This could go seriously wrong. But again they have the chops to pull it off. I played "Big Alice" and "Blue Rondo a la Turk" and I found everything to like and nothing missing I that I wanted or needed.

It sounded like just I was sitting in front of 3 tubas. What is most impressive is that the bass was just as clear, coherent at very low volume levels. I do plan on using the speakers as part of a home theater, but I am far more willing to compromise HT sound than musical accuracy.
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post #4485 of 4488 Old Yesterday, 04:03 PM
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I have a wonderful Yamaha M2 Power amp and a Yamaha C4 preamp that I intend to use to power my Magnepan 3.7i speakers when I get them. The power amp is rated for 350w/ch at .005% THD for a 4 ohm load so while it is old, it is no slouch.

Out of curiosity when I listened to the 3.7i the preamp was a ($700) Audio Research SP20 and the power amp was a pair of ($14,000) Classe' M600 mono block rated at 600w continuous or 1200 peak into 4 ohms. We never drove the amps beyond 1/3 load and 1/4 load was plenty of volume for me.

Now I liked very much what I heard, but I don't want two 500,000 BTU heaters in the room every time I want to listen to music or watch a movie.

What I have for a power amp should work fine. Right now I use my Oppo 105D as my only movie or music source, the Oppo has a network connect to my server. So I don't need a whole lot of source options at the pre-amp. It would be nice to have a remote control for volume although the Oppo can do that.

I don't balk at a $700 pre amp, after all I paid $650 for my Yamaha pre amp 35 years ago.

If I don't like my power amp I don't know what I will do? In theory a 150-200w/ch (at 8 ohms) power amp should be able to drive the 3.7i.

I have read good things about Emotiva, a pair of XPA-1 would cost me "only" $2,200 or a of XPA-2 at $719, but they don't spec as clean as my old Yamaha. To be honest I have mixed feeling about Emotiva.

One thing that makes me very attracted to the 3.7i as opposed to the 1.7i was that they played just as loud or louder for the same level of input and were so clean, detailed, coherent and nuanced I had very little desire to crank them up.

I have been on Audiogon window shopping for power amps and I'll entertain suggestions for that exercise as well. I'd like to keep the budget for a power amp(s) under $5,000 but I hope I don't need a new one at all.

Does anyone have anything helpful to share about their experience with "Budget" or used Mark Levinson, McIntosh, Classe', Parasound or Audio Research amps specifically for Magnepan speakers?

Forgiving me asking amplifier questions on the Magnepan area but those will be the speakers I am purchasing for.

Thank you in advance.
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post #4486 of 4488 Old Yesterday, 04:47 PM
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Timothy: I run my 3.6 Magnepans with a 200 watt/channel McIntosh amplifier hooked up to their 4 Ohm taps in a rather open 3,500 cu. ft. room with the speakers around 9 feet from my listening position. While I play them loudly, I’m not approaching reference levels (I usually hit upper 80 dB to perhaps 90 - 92 dB peaks when I get carried away). In order to double the output (10 dB more output) to try and reach reference level peaks, I’d need two, 2 kilowatt mono-blocks. To get just 3 dB more output, I’d need to get a 400 watt/channel amplifier. In other words, your amplifier should run the 3.7i’s loudly, but don’t expect to be listening at near reference levels. And if you need to play that loudly, expect to pay a pretty penny for a very powerful amp.

BTW, I can play music at high levels for a good six hours and the metal grill above the amp only gets slightly warm to the touch. I would expect this from most high quality amplifiers. Typical AVRs? They are a joke. The get hot, and get hot almost immediately.

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post #4487 of 4488 Old Yesterday, 05:18 PM
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The M2 is a nice amp and I would just use it for starters. The THD spec is interesting; most companies would have chosen more power. I would not worry about THD; your speakers (yes, even Maggies) will dominate the distortion.

Audio Research and Magnepan are neighbors and had a very close relationship for many years. You could buy Maggies from ARC at one time.

My experience with tube amps and Maggies is that midrange is great, and usually the highs, but bass not as "tight" due to their higher output impedance. The last time I had a tube system I was using an Audio Research D79 for the mid/treble and Counterpoint SA-220 (hybrid tube input/MOSFET output) for the bass. (Bi-amped with an external crossover). The other amps I tried, e.g. Bryston, Krell, Levinson, Threshold, etc. had much better bass IMO but would not blend with the D79 as well. My current amp is an Emotiva XPA-2 and I am quite happy with it.

Make sure you hear no hum when purchasing an older amp. It is usually not a fortune to replace power supply capacitors but might as well start clean.

Magnepans are a low-impedance load but do not vary much over frequency and have low phase angle (mostly a resistive load). That means most any amp will do fine, but the amp must be able to handle 3 to 4 ohms with aplomb. Modes in the panels, akin to breakup in conventional cones, are more an issue at lower frequencies and are better controlled with low-impedance amplifiers IMO.

It is worth noting that over most of their range Magnepans do not radiate off to the sides or top and bottom. That gives them an advantage compared to conventional cones that radiate over a much wider space. More power directed at the listener means an effective boost in sensitivity so they make better use of the amplifier power you have.

The 3.7i is rated at 86 dB/m/2.83 V and 2.83 V is actually 2 W into 4 ohms. Subtracting 3 dB to get to 1 W gives 83 dB/W/m, but the radiating pattern will give you back that 3 dB from the upper bass/lower midrange on up. A pair of them 9' away without any room gain will yield 102.7 dB with 350 W input power, pretty loud.

Maggies, like all planar designs, distort heavily when driven hard in the bass region (or any, but bass is where the power is usually sent). They benefit greatly (IMO) from a good sub or two.

All IME/IMO - Don

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post #4488 of 4488 Old Today, 09:03 AM
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Quote:
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Forgiving me asking amplifier questions on the Magnepan area but those will be the speakers I am purchasing for.

Thank you in advance.

I've had Magnepans since 1978 and have tried many different power amps with them over the years. That first pair I bought were Tympani 1D's that had the Audio Research brand name on them. When I bought those, I had a Phase Linear 400 and that's what I used to drive them at first. That combo sounded good, but I blew the tweeter fuse on the Tympani's with them on a regular basis. I'm not sure why. I switched to a Great American Sound Ampzilla IIa, and never blew a tweeter fuse again. That Ampzilla was rated at the same power output as the Phase Linear, 200 watts per channel at 8 ohms and 350 a channel at 4. I've used separate subwoofers with all of my Magnepans as well


I owned Magnepan IIIa's , in the late 80's and biamped them using an external electronic crossover and a pair of Threshold S200 power amps. They were rated at 100 watts per channel at 8 ohms and 200 per side at 4. That combination really sounded nice. I've used other Nelson Pass era Threshold power amps over the years as well, and they all sounded magnificent with any Magnepans I hooked them to. The best sounding one I've heard with Maggies is a Threshold SA/4e. That one is rated at 100 watts per channel at 8 ohms in pure class A. and is a 98 pound behemoth with a massive power supply.


I tried some Adcom amps with Maggies in the 90's, a GFA -555, a GFA 555 series II, even a pair of their 565 monoblocs. They all did a fine job with Magnepans.


I have three pair of Magnepans currently, a pair of MG 1.7's, a pair of 1.6's and a pair of MMG's. For the 1.7's, I use a Threshold S500e. I bought that amp about 1990 or so as an S500..rated at 250 watts per channel at 8 ohms and 500 watts per channel at 4. I sent it back to the Threshold Factory in 1994 and had it updated to E series status, hence the S500e designation. That amp still sounds great with Magnepans, even 26 years later.


Buying a new amp today to drive Magnepans, I would definitely recommend some from the Emotiva line. I have an XPA-2 driving my 1.6's in my bedroom system, and they make a great match. I also have a pair of Emotiva XPA-1 monoblocs that I use in my main system driving Thiel 3.6's. I've had them hooked to my Maggie 1.7's and they really sound nice together as well. I would not recommend a tube amp. I tried some really high buck Audio Research tube amps with them in the 90's and was disappointed in the sound. The bass just wasn't what I was used to with a high power solid state amp.


Just my 2 cents worth.

Main system: Thiel 3.6 L/R speakers, Pair of Velodyne F1500r subs, B&W HTM center, Emotiva and Polk RTi 28 surrounds, Integra DHC 9.9 pre/proc, Pair of Emotiva XPA-1's, Emotiva XPA-5, Threshold SA/4e, pair of Threshold S/200's, Oracle Delphi TT w Magnepan Unitrac 1 arm and Shure V15 - Vmr, Logitech Squeezebox Touch, Oppo BDP 83 optical disc player, Threshold T2 preamp, Denon DR-M44HX cassette, Pioneer CLD-97 Laserdisc. LG PF1500 led projector,Elite 100"tab tension-ed motorized screen.
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Magnepan , Magnepan Mmg , Magnepan Mini Maggie System , Magnepan Mg 1 7 , Magnepan Mg 3 7



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