The Official Magnepan Owners Thread - Page 154 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
Forum Jump: 
 197Likes
Reply
 
Thread Tools
post #4591 of 4893 Old 04-13-2016, 11:26 AM
Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2014
Posts: 139
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 81 Post(s)
Liked: 19
Quote:
Originally Posted by dsrussell View Post
Good luck. Hope the cleaning will help run your Dahlquists to your satisfaction.

There is no such thing as maintenance free. Discrete components get weak, caps dry out, things happen. Most electronics today won’t have long lives. The statement, “They don’t make them how they use to,” is true in a way. A lot more bells and whistles and neat stuff on todays electronics. But reliability usually suffers.

We both bought our electronics in the heyday of audio and are extremely fortunate that they have lived such a long life. I bought my McIntosh equipment in ’78 and they work fine today (I did replace the preamp, but only because I wanted a new toy). But I take my equipment in once every 10 years or so to have it tested, cleaned and checked out. Because of all the discrete components they are easy and cheap to replace, except for the big storage caps, which I haven’t had to replace … yet. I would probably just replace them when needed, simply because I’m not looking to spend 7.5 grand on a new amp.
dsrussell > We both bought our electronics in the heyday of audio and are extremely fortunate

I would have to agree, the demographics and market place were both very different back then, I'd suggest more favorable to the consumer. Somewhere I read that in theory two high quality amps with good specs should sound pretty much the same. To some degree I would agree with that and expect my old stuff to still be competitive if in excellent condition.

dsrussell > except for the big storage caps

35 years ago I had a childish idea that if I purchased top shelf solid state equipment it should be carefree. I stand corrected. My 50# power amp has two coffee can size capacitors, 1978 maxwell house size coffee cans not 2016 size coffee cans and thank God they are still good.

dsrussell > I’m not looking to spend 7.5 grand on a new amp.

Amen.

dsrussell > Good luck. Hope the cleaning will help run your Dahlquists to your satisfaction.

I would listen to my 35 year old dirty amp and rebuilt Dahlquists and compare that to new 3.7i with new amps and I was unhappy. Now the amps will be restored and I'll have to completely rethink all this. I just had an idea! Take my restored power amp to the Magnepan store and try it driving the 3.7i? This time I should take my Oppo 105D as well they had a difficult time accessing my music on my USB drive last time I was there.

I wonder if they would let me?

That may be informative.

dsrussell > (we) are extremely fortunate

Amen - Part II

Thank you Sir, for your informative and encouraging reply.
Timothy Wright is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #4592 of 4893 Old 04-13-2016, 11:50 AM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
dsrussell's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Corona, CA.
Posts: 5,803
Mentioned: 71 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2246 Post(s)
Liked: 3043
Quote:
Originally Posted by Timothy Wright View Post
I would listen to my 35 year old dirty amp and rebuilt Dahlquists and compare that to new 3.7i with new amps and I was unhappy. Now the amps will be restored and I'll have to completely rethink all this. I just had an idea! Take my restored power amp to the Magnepan store and try it driving the 3.7i? This time I should take my Oppo 105D as well they had a difficult time accessing my music on my USB drive last time I was there.

I wonder if they would let me?

That may be informative.
When I was auditioning speakers, I auditioned the Martin Logan Vantage and Summits. I just happened to have my amp and preamp in for its decade checkup. After they serviced them, they set them up and I auditioned those two speakers with my own equipment. I also went to an audio store that sold Magnepan. I asked whether I could bring my amp/preamp in to see how they would perform with the Maggies. They not only said, “no problem”, they encouraged me to bring them in (although they also said that my amp would have no problems driving them to my preferred listening levels).

So yes, do ask. They should be happy to serve you.

Music area: Magnepan 3.6, McIntosh MC2205 amp & C48 preamp, SVS SB13-Ultra, Oppo BDP 95, dbx 3BX, and assorted equipment.
Movie area: EMP Tek E5Bi (were rebadged to R5Bi), RBH/EMP Tek R55Ti, PSA S3000i, Denon X2000, Oppo BDP 83.
dsrussell is offline  
post #4593 of 4893 Old 04-13-2016, 12:22 PM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
DonH50's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: Monument CO
Posts: 9,883
Mentioned: 27 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1949 Post(s)
Liked: 1506
Quote:
Originally Posted by Timothy Wright View Post
I wanted to post an update of my maggy related adventures. I am still saving up for my pair of 3.7i speakers. Not helping this month is a new hot water tank and a brand new 24TB NAS.

Related to amps for maggies two months ago I dropped of my Yamaha C4 pre amp and M2 Power amp for cleaning on the same day I went maggy listening. Now my amps are 40 years old and to be honest they have not been cleaned up inside for about 25 years. About five years ago I completely rebuilt my Dahlquist DQ10 speakers and I have been disappointed with the results. I don't know if I should blame the speakers or the amps?

Today I got a phone call from the shop, my stuff has been on the shelf for 8 weeks. They say I need zero parts but all the switches and contacts inside both the preamp and power amp are very oxidized. Cost was $65 each diagnoses and an additional $130 each labor to completely clean. I was told they were nasty on the inside and over due for a cleaning.

I guess the alternative would be many thousands for replacement? I am expecting the improvement to be very noticeable.

I'm not an expert on this but I assume with gold contacts on the inside I had a mental image of my equipment staying perfect forever and being maintenance free?

Next payday I pick up my amps and I'll then know then how they sound with my Dahlquist DQ10 speakers. Sometime this summer, Lord willing, I'll know more about how my amps sound with new 3.7i speakers.

It does make me wonder how many folks replace expensive amps that need cleaned for better sounding even more expensive amps that will also need cleaned in just a few years?

Thank you for listening.
dsrussell already answered this but rambling thoughts:
  • I was never a big fan of DQ10's, with or without their optional sub. A great idea but I could never get them to image like what I thought they should, and they seemed dynamically restricted to me.
  • I suspect not all the contacts were gold, but yes gold does wear off with use. It is a thin layer often plated over nickle or chrome but not always (sometimes silver). The underlayer provides a harder more wear-resistant base but the gold itself wears off with use ("scratches off"). Even if the gold is till there, dirt/dust can creep onto the contacts, and of course potentiometers ("pots", like volume controls) can get dirty and wear out.
  • Dust on components causes higher operating temperatures, which in turn can dramatically reduce lifetime.
  • I would not expect a big difference in performance, though if you heard noise when changing the volume that may go away, and clicks/pops during switching may be reduced.
  • The biggest sonic improvement I have heard comes from replacing old electrolytic power and coupling capacitors. They do degrade with time, often to a fraction of their original value.
  • I personally think, properly set up, the 3.7i's will sound amazingly better than the DQ10's. Of course, I am biased... I will say back when I was auditioning my current MG-IIIa's I worked at a store that carried DQ10's. They were nice speakers, but seemed to be "ok" at everything without really standing out. I could have lived happily with them, but they were never really in the running for me. YMMV.

Interestingly, checking the manuals, the M-2 was not rated at 4 ohms, though its little brother the M-4 was (I would not let that worry me). This was also during the time when very low distortion was all the rage so spec'd THD is very low.

I suspect some issue with the speakers, like the rebuild changing crossover alignment, or changes in drivers (since the originals are probably no longer available), rather than the amplifier. Or could be you moved their location since the rebuild? Placement in (and) the room can change everything...

My 0.000001 cent (microcent) - Don

"After silence, that which best expresses the inexpressible, is music" - Aldous Huxley
DonH50 is offline  
 
post #4594 of 4893 Old 04-13-2016, 02:59 PM
Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2014
Posts: 139
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 81 Post(s)
Liked: 19
DonH50> I could never get them to image like what I thought they should

I was successful for most of their life. I could be wrong. If the cleaner amp helps I'm all for it. I see a pair of 3.7i in my future either way.

DonH50> I worked at a store that carried DQ10's.

I could be wrong but I think I could drive the DQ-10 to SPL that I would not try with the magnepan speakers of the day. I think my real objection at the time was that I lived in the high desert of NM and it was so dry I thought the DQ-10 would take the very low humidity, static filled air better than the Magnepan speakers. What ever difference in cost at the time was not significant to me at the time.

DonH50> the M-2 was not rated at 4 ohms,

I still have the manuals:

4 ohms, 1kHz, 0.005% T.H.D. 350W + 350W

DonH50> I suspect some issue with the speakers

I'll know more when I get my amps back, you very well may be correct. A new pair of 3.7i should be the ticket.

Once again, Thank you Don for your kind help.
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	img094.jpg
Views:	35
Size:	215.9 KB
ID:	1378106   Click image for larger version

Name:	img093.jpg
Views:	41
Size:	155.8 KB
ID:	1378114  

Last edited by Timothy Wright; 04-13-2016 at 03:03 PM.
Timothy Wright is offline  
post #4595 of 4893 Old 04-13-2016, 07:54 PM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
DonH50's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: Monument CO
Posts: 9,883
Mentioned: 27 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1949 Post(s)
Liked: 1506
Thanks for the info on the amp. The manual I found online had no 4-ohm spec which I found surprising; probably a misprint. I heard several of them (M-2 amps, not manuals ) and they sounded great to me!

The DQ-10 was a ground-breaking speaker in a lot of ways. A five-way audiophile speaker time-aligned, fancy crossover, isolated woofer plus open drivers, the whole deal. We sold a lot of them and I thought it was a great speaker, just never "clicked" with me for some reason. I should note at the time I had Infinity IRS 2's, I think, around or between my Magnepans (first had MG-I's, bought used in the late 70's or early 80's).

"After silence, that which best expresses the inexpressible, is music" - Aldous Huxley
DonH50 is offline  
post #4596 of 4893 Old 04-14-2016, 12:08 PM
Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2014
Posts: 139
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 81 Post(s)
Liked: 19
Back then I listened to a very tall and large set of Infinity tower speakers, (20.7i size or larger) they were among my final choices. In the end I found them very accurate but a touch harsh and fatiguing to listen to. And they were very expensive, maybe double the cost of the DQ-10 speakers or more. I remember something like (12) 4" mid range in a vertical row and a tall vertical line of ribbon tweeters? For 2-3 songs they sounded very accurate, but to listen to over a dinner party they were just too demanding on the ear. They could never disappear behind the music like a magnepan or a DQ10 speaker.

I changed almost all the DQ-10 drivers, and the crossover when I rebuilt them, I felt I had to because I wanted the best results. If the DQ-10 cost me $1,200 new for the pair I may have spent $1,800 rebuilding them with a great deal of care. For what ever reason I don't have the transparency and imaging I remember and expected. At the time I remember thinking I have 80% of a pair of 1.7i speakers paid for in the cost of the rebuild.

The desert gets sand storms and always has high levels of ambient dust. Wash and wax your new car and in an hour it will be covered in a very fine grit. At the time when I purchased the DQ-10 speakers it seemed like the worst possible living conditions for Magnepan speakers.

DQ-10 are not as fussy for placement as Magnepan but they are fussy. However I would not listen to them in a room with stuffed 20 other pair of speakers lined up like birds in an aviary and expect the best results.

I watch Velocity and when they restore a 50 year old car often I think "even in showroom condition it was clunker even then. The newer cars are much better in almost every way. I wonder how true that is of Audio equipment since the need not meet safety and emissions requirements?
Timothy Wright is offline  
post #4597 of 4893 Old 04-14-2016, 03:35 PM
Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2014
Posts: 139
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 81 Post(s)
Liked: 19
This magnepan thread is my "home" on AVS Forum, and I do hope for my new magnepan 3.7i later this summer. Having said that, one could argue that I am a bit off topic for this speaker thread. Thank you, one and all, for your gracious hospitality and support.

I got a call from the repair shop again today telling me that everything is ready to be picked up and in perfect working condition.

Perhaps only because I've always been a touch redundantly paranoid I mentioned that I thought I blew out one side of the preamp before I gave it to him; the right channel was not working at all? And I am impressed that I don't need any capacitors or any other parts, not unhappy I just want to be reassured that everything is A-OK. (The shop does have a top shelf reputation.)

I was told that the amps were so dirty on in the inside that anything was possible, but right now everything is tested, within specs and working perfectly. To quote the guy who did the work: "They don't build them like this anymore, especially not so over engineered they way Yamaha used to make them."

My guess is, Lord willing, that by August I shall know what a pair of (2016) 3.7i sound like driven by my stone age amps. I have a pilot friend who I frequently chide that "real men" fly wood and canvas. I'll feel like a "real man" listening to my maggies via my 1980 Yamaha amp and I reckon that it will sound OK too by almost any measure.

Oh, back in the good old days when electrons were still made of wood . . .

(and Victrola phonograph needles were made of steel)
dsrussell likes this.

Last edited by Timothy Wright; 04-14-2016 at 03:38 PM.
Timothy Wright is offline  
post #4598 of 4893 Old 04-14-2016, 09:15 PM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
Garman's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: The Moon
Posts: 6,449
Mentioned: 10 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1256 Post(s)
Liked: 554
Does anyone know if Maggie's will be at the Axpona show this weekend?
Garman is online now  
post #4599 of 4893 Old 04-15-2016, 02:29 AM
Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2014
Posts: 139
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 81 Post(s)
Liked: 19
Garman > the Axpona show this weekend?

http://www.axpona.com/exhibitors.asp

evidently not.
Timothy Wright is offline  
post #4600 of 4893 Old 04-26-2016, 04:29 PM
Advanced Member
 
dlynch34's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Winter Garden, FL
Posts: 608
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 302 Post(s)
Liked: 128
Ok recommendations for subs..I have 3.7is presently and a svs pb 12 plus..anything that might match better with my speakers? Not sure if the sub can keep up with them or not..

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G935A using Tapatalk

Don
Anthem AVM-60,Sunfire Cinema Grand Signature Five-Channel Power Amplifier, Emotiva XPA-1l x2,Outlaw 5000. Rhythmik DIY 15inch x2, Plus, Magnapan 3.7i, Magnepan CC5,Magnepan MC1,JVC RS400, DIY 125" 2:35 Elite Screen cinegray 3d .
dlynch34 is online now  
post #4601 of 4893 Old 04-26-2016, 09:43 PM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
dsrussell's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Corona, CA.
Posts: 5,803
Mentioned: 71 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2246 Post(s)
Liked: 3043
Quote:
Originally Posted by dlynch34 View Post
Ok recommendations for subs..I have 3.7is presently and a svs pb 12 plus..anything that might match better with my speakers? Not sure if the sub can keep up with them or not..

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G935A using Tapatalk
I recommend that you try using different crossover points before giving up on your sub. Try 60 Hz, then 50 Hz, then 40 Hz to see what best works for you. I cross my sealed Ultra at 40 Hz (gentle rolloff for the high pass filter and a steep rolloff for the low pass filter). For me, it was the best of both worlds: I got the bass I wanted from the panels and the bass the 3.6’s couldn’t provide me via the sub, without interfering with the panel bass, which I feel is unique and one of the reasons I purchased the 3.6.

Music area: Magnepan 3.6, McIntosh MC2205 amp & C48 preamp, SVS SB13-Ultra, Oppo BDP 95, dbx 3BX, and assorted equipment.
Movie area: EMP Tek E5Bi (were rebadged to R5Bi), RBH/EMP Tek R55Ti, PSA S3000i, Denon X2000, Oppo BDP 83.
dsrussell is offline  
post #4602 of 4893 Old 04-27-2016, 09:56 AM
Advanced Member
 
dlynch34's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Winter Garden, FL
Posts: 608
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 302 Post(s)
Liked: 128
Quote:
Originally Posted by dsrussell View Post
I recommend that you try using different crossover points before giving up on your sub. Try 60 Hz, then 50 Hz, then 40 Hz to see what best works for you. I cross my sealed Ultra at 40 Hz (gentle rolloff for the high pass filter and a steep rolloff for the low pass filter). For me, it was the best of both worlds: I got the bass I wanted from the panels and the bass the 3.6’s couldn’t provide me via the sub, without interfering with the panel bass, which I feel is unique and one of the reasons I purchased the 3.6.
oops I mistype I have the PC12 plus.. it is a ported sub not an enclosed sub and wondering wouldnt I be better served with a sealed sub?

Don
Anthem AVM-60,Sunfire Cinema Grand Signature Five-Channel Power Amplifier, Emotiva XPA-1l x2,Outlaw 5000. Rhythmik DIY 15inch x2, Plus, Magnapan 3.7i, Magnepan CC5,Magnepan MC1,JVC RS400, DIY 125" 2:35 Elite Screen cinegray 3d .
dlynch34 is online now  
post #4603 of 4893 Old 04-27-2016, 11:47 AM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
DonH50's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: Monument CO
Posts: 9,883
Mentioned: 27 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1949 Post(s)
Liked: 1506
I use Rythmik but agree with playing with crossovers and such. What do you think you might gain with a new sub? "Keeping up" is usually a function of driver damping/ringing not "speed" per se. Arguably the best match would be an open-baffle design like the DIY kit from GR using Rythmik drivers and (servo) amplifiers. But, any sub is better than no sub, and I'd try other things before getting a new sub unless you just have money to spend. If the latter, I can suggest my favorite charity...

FWIWFM - Don

p.s. My Rythmik stomps your SVS (obligatory childish male response).
dlynch34 likes this.

"After silence, that which best expresses the inexpressible, is music" - Aldous Huxley
DonH50 is offline  
post #4604 of 4893 Old 04-27-2016, 12:50 PM
Advanced Member
 
dlynch34's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Winter Garden, FL
Posts: 608
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 302 Post(s)
Liked: 128
Quote:
Originally Posted by DonH50 View Post
I use Rythmik but agree with playing with crossovers and such. What do you think you might gain with a new sub? "Keeping up" is usually a function of driver damping/ringing not "speed" per se. Arguably the best match would be an open-baffle design like the DIY kit from GR using Rythmik drivers and (servo) amplifiers. But, any sub is better than no sub, and I'd try other things before getting a new sub unless you just have money to spend. If the latter, I can suggest my favorite charity...

FWIWFM - Don

p.s. My Rythmik stomps your SVS (obligatory childish male response).
Thanks Don I might look into the open baffle DIY... I wonder if I will compromise on movies though with such a design. They all have their pluses and minuses however.

Don
Anthem AVM-60,Sunfire Cinema Grand Signature Five-Channel Power Amplifier, Emotiva XPA-1l x2,Outlaw 5000. Rhythmik DIY 15inch x2, Plus, Magnapan 3.7i, Magnepan CC5,Magnepan MC1,JVC RS400, DIY 125" 2:35 Elite Screen cinegray 3d .
dlynch34 is online now  
post #4605 of 4893 Old 04-27-2016, 01:58 PM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
DonH50's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: Monument CO
Posts: 9,883
Mentioned: 27 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1949 Post(s)
Liked: 1506
They generally have lower output, which may or may not matter, and of course potentially more interaction with the room since they are effectively a dipole subwoofer. At sub frequencies it will still look like a point source, however, so output (and fact you must DIY) are the biggest trades IMO. Drivers and amplifiers take care of output. OB in general has a reputation for more ringing than sealed designs but the Rythmik servo circuit helps significantly (essentially making that a non-issue).

I think it is user @BDP24 using OB subs and he can better describe them; posting in the Rythmik thread over in the subwoofer subforum will net more feedback. GR worked with Brian to design the OB version and can speak much better than I on their pros and cons.

Sans DIY OB subs for lack of time and space, I'll stick with my little quartet of Rythmik F12's.

"After silence, that which best expresses the inexpressible, is music" - Aldous Huxley
DonH50 is offline  
post #4606 of 4893 Old 04-27-2016, 04:50 PM
Advanced Member
 
dlynch34's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Winter Garden, FL
Posts: 608
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 302 Post(s)
Liked: 128
Quote:
Originally Posted by dsrussell View Post
I recommend that you try using different crossover points before giving up on your sub. Try 60 Hz, then 50 Hz, then 40 Hz to see what best works for you. I cross my sealed Ultra at 40 Hz (gentle rolloff for the high pass filter and a steep rolloff for the low pass filter). For me, it was the best of both worlds: I got the bass I wanted from the panels and the bass the 3.6’s couldn’t provide me via the sub, without interfering with the panel bass, which I feel is unique and one of the reasons I purchased the 3.6.
Ok I have never messed with the subs crossover...there is a high pass filter and a low pass I am a little confused where I should start with the slope configuration and the low pass filter..
Quote:
Originally Posted by dlynch34 View Post
oops I mistype I have the PC12 plus.. it is a ported sub not an enclosed sub and wondering wouldnt I be better served with a sealed sub?

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G935A using Tapatalk

Don
Anthem AVM-60,Sunfire Cinema Grand Signature Five-Channel Power Amplifier, Emotiva XPA-1l x2,Outlaw 5000. Rhythmik DIY 15inch x2, Plus, Magnapan 3.7i, Magnepan CC5,Magnepan MC1,JVC RS400, DIY 125" 2:35 Elite Screen cinegray 3d .
dlynch34 is online now  
post #4607 of 4893 Old 04-27-2016, 05:32 PM
Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2014
Posts: 139
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 81 Post(s)
Liked: 19
I wanted to post an update. An hour or so ago I finished a 400 mile drive and picked up my Yamaha amps and immediately fired the puppy up looking for a huge improvement.

And I think I got a huge improvement, the DQ10 are far more tolerable. I can't say with any certainty what it sounds like compared to 35 years ago I honestly do not know, who can say?

Far more tolerable is a accurate description.

This has done nothing to abate my interest in a pair of 3.7i speakers. What it does make me think is that now I'll have something tolerable to drive them with.

Lord willing I'll buy the 3.7i this summer.

When I was at the repair shop I saw a huge power amp that made my 50# M2 Power amp look like a wrist watch. Turns out it was a Mark Levinson, I have no idea which model. One would need a forklift to move it.

Thanks to everyone for tolerating my saga. I'll post again when I pay for / order the MG 3.7I speakers.
dsrussell likes this.
Timothy Wright is offline  
post #4608 of 4893 Old 04-27-2016, 06:25 PM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
dsrussell's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Corona, CA.
Posts: 5,803
Mentioned: 71 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2246 Post(s)
Liked: 3043
Quote:
Originally Posted by dlynch34 View Post
Ok I have never messed with the subs crossover...there is a high pass filter and a low pass I am a little confused where I should start with the slope configuration and the low pass filter..
First, don’t worry immediately about the slope settings. I began all this by running the Maggies full range and setting the sub at 40 Hz crossover. It’s quick and easy and told me a lot. I really liked this setting, but I knew I could do better and give my Maggies a “slight” break by trying different crossovers (I don’t worry about my amplifier … it’s a tank that refuses to burp). That’s when the real work began, and I don’t expect anyone to go through the lengths that I went through (it took several months of testing and retesting). And let’s face it, I’m retired and have plenty of time on my hands .

Set the crossover at different Hz levels to get a good idea how everything sounds (40 Hz, 50 Hz, 60 Hz etc). This may take more time that you’d like because there are so many variables. I wanted to get used to each setting before making a change. Once you’ve found the crossover you feel is best, then go ahead and play with the slope.

My intention was to have the Maggies with a gentle slope so the bass panels were still working hard (but not as hard as it would be by running them full range). I tried the same slope for the subwoofer and listened for a few more weeks. Then I went to a steeper slope on the subwoofer and slightly preferred that. You mileage will vary because of your room, your subwoofer and your preferences.

For me, the more the subwoofer disappeared, the better I liked it. Again, I only wanted the subwoofer to reproduce what the Maggies couldn’t (mainly deep organ and synthesizer notes/measures). Others may like more bass reinforcement to instruments such as harps, string bass, bass guitars, etc., but I chose what I felt represented the instruments more faithfully. It's your job to set everything to YOUR preferences. Good luck!

Music area: Magnepan 3.6, McIntosh MC2205 amp & C48 preamp, SVS SB13-Ultra, Oppo BDP 95, dbx 3BX, and assorted equipment.
Movie area: EMP Tek E5Bi (were rebadged to R5Bi), RBH/EMP Tek R55Ti, PSA S3000i, Denon X2000, Oppo BDP 83.
dsrussell is offline  
post #4609 of 4893 Old 04-28-2016, 12:24 PM
Advanced Member
 
dlynch34's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Winter Garden, FL
Posts: 608
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 302 Post(s)
Liked: 128
Cc5

Quote:
Originally Posted by stustan View Post
Boy oh boy your'e sure having fun!!!!

I would grab the DWM …. I love my CC5/DWM combo. The CC5 has little to no output below 200Hz and sounds thin on it's own ….. it needs low end support.

Enjoy!
I presently have the cc5 and no dwm. I am having a hard time justifying the $800 cost for it. Anyone have any input on this? Do they ever go onsale and if so where? dealer?

Don
Anthem AVM-60,Sunfire Cinema Grand Signature Five-Channel Power Amplifier, Emotiva XPA-1l x2,Outlaw 5000. Rhythmik DIY 15inch x2, Plus, Magnapan 3.7i, Magnepan CC5,Magnepan MC1,JVC RS400, DIY 125" 2:35 Elite Screen cinegray 3d .
dlynch34 is online now  
post #4610 of 4893 Old 04-28-2016, 04:08 PM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
DonH50's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: Monument CO
Posts: 9,883
Mentioned: 27 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1949 Post(s)
Liked: 1506
Some dealers will negotiate a little on price but not much IME. The dealer I worked with went out of business and the new one in the area is a "MSRP" kind of place; even their deals are pretty high priced compared to other places around town.

Total overkill, and probably would not match well, but I've been tempted to try a smaller sub (e.g. F8 or L12 Rythmik) or even just a cheap little sub to handle from maybe 50 to 200 Hz. My problem is I really have no room for a DWM or sub where my center sits, and I would not give in to temptation to cheap out, and so I'd end up with an $800 sub that was way overkill for the center. I do have the older CC3, which goes a little deeper, but frankly I think the 80 Hz claim is a stretch for it, and for my MC1's. More like 100 Hz in my room, but I also have the MC1's on stands so am not getting the reinforcement from the wall right behind like they expect.

Other ideas I've toyed with are stacking a couple of CC3 (CC5) speakers, or adding an MMGC crossed over to just help the bass, but the MMGC is only rated to 100 Hz itself. Blah, I need a bigger room, and a winning lottery ticket (not one of the $2 ones, either!) For now my room is small enough and mains close enough it is not a problem.

It's a pretty fundamental problem, trying to get decent (mid)bass from a small panel.

Crud, this has me thinking again, what if I built a DIY box that fits the center spot in my console, deep enough to get the volume required (stick out the back), and stuffed a Rythmik servo amp and 8" or 12" driver in it, how would that sound? Localization's not a problem if it's under the center...
dlynch34 likes this.

"After silence, that which best expresses the inexpressible, is music" - Aldous Huxley
DonH50 is offline  
post #4611 of 4893 Old 04-29-2016, 04:29 AM
Advanced Member
 
dlynch34's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Winter Garden, FL
Posts: 608
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 302 Post(s)
Liked: 128
I know this is a Magenpan thread but I am sure many of you did research prior to choosing Magenpan. During my research recently on subs I stumbled upon a rotary subwoofer. The company that produced it also had an interesting speaker and I wont put the name of it in here but I will give the initials (ET) of the company and if anyone would care to private message me of their take I would appreciate it. I do not want to start a dialogue in here to be sure as I am VERY happy with my speakers but I am always curious as well lol.

Don
Anthem AVM-60,Sunfire Cinema Grand Signature Five-Channel Power Amplifier, Emotiva XPA-1l x2,Outlaw 5000. Rhythmik DIY 15inch x2, Plus, Magnapan 3.7i, Magnepan CC5,Magnepan MC1,JVC RS400, DIY 125" 2:35 Elite Screen cinegray 3d .
dlynch34 is online now  
post #4612 of 4893 Old 04-29-2016, 05:50 AM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
DonH50's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: Monument CO
Posts: 9,883
Mentioned: 27 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1949 Post(s)
Liked: 1506
The Thigpen rotary is an awesome beast. http://www.rotarywoofer.com/

There is some discussion of the ET line here and a couple of owners are on the thread. I have heard but never owned them, and the ones I heard were not the latest models. The list of speakers I have owned, had in my system to evaluate (years working for audio stores, mainly as a tech), and listened to would be lengthy. For planars it includes ET, but also Acoustic, Apogee, Beveridge, HQD (stacked Quads), Infinity (ServoStatik; I did own IRS 2's for a while but those are not technically planar though EMIT/EMIMs are), KLH (Model Nines), Martin Logan (various), Quads (several flavors), Sanders, Soundlabs (A1's, I think), and a few more I've forgotten. Magnepan always represented very good sound and extremely good value. The main advantage over ESLs they have had is a more extended frequency range that had a more seamless image from top to bottom. In the midrange, I'll take an ESL, but Magnepan presents a better overall sound to my ears.

I couldn't begin to list all the other speakers I've heard over the years.

Most of my listening was done years ago, as the names will reveal, but I have listened more recently to Martin Logan and Quads plus a few others.

YMWV (your milage will vary) - Don
dsrussell likes this.

"After silence, that which best expresses the inexpressible, is music" - Aldous Huxley
DonH50 is offline  
post #4613 of 4893 Old 05-12-2016, 05:30 AM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
Garman's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: The Moon
Posts: 6,449
Mentioned: 10 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1256 Post(s)
Liked: 554
Loved this write up on the 1.7, this room was one of my favorites at Axpona 2016.

https://parttimeaudiophile.com/2016/...with-magnepan/
Garman is online now  
post #4614 of 4893 Old 05-12-2016, 07:57 AM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
DonH50's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: Monument CO
Posts: 9,883
Mentioned: 27 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1949 Post(s)
Liked: 1506
Nice! But... 82 fs jitter? Seems like overkill... That's about 27 bits at 20 kHz for aperture time if I did the math right.

The 1.7's hit a nice sweet spot though I like the true ribbon in the 3.7's (and 20.7's, natch).

Nice to see Magnepan getting some exposure recently; seems like there were a few years you didn't hear much about them at shows.

"After silence, that which best expresses the inexpressible, is music" - Aldous Huxley
DonH50 is offline  
post #4615 of 4893 Old 05-12-2016, 11:26 AM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
Garman's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: The Moon
Posts: 6,449
Mentioned: 10 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1256 Post(s)
Liked: 554
Quote:
Originally Posted by DonH50 View Post
Nice! But... 82 fs jitter? Seems like overkill... That's about 27 bits at 20 kHz for aperture time if I did the math right.

The 1.7's hit a nice sweet spot though I like the true ribbon in the 3.7's (and 20.7's, natch).

Nice to see Magnepan getting some exposure recently; seems like there were a few years you didn't hear much about them at shows.
Well the problem with Maggies, is they don't get enough exposure, I wish they would increase their marketing budget. I would love to have a pair of 3.7i but don't have the room, the 1.7s in my setup is cutting it on space. My main speakers are a pair of Dynaudio Platinum C2s much, much more expensive, not sure if I would say better, just different sounding in a good way...
dsrussell likes this.

Dynaudio,Magnepan,Hegel, Musical Fidelity,Belles and KEF, etc...... New Belles Aria Pre/Amp on the way! New Amp as far as equipment goes and for speakers the: Contour's 20's or Raidho next...
Charter Member - E.S.A.C. (Eastern Shore Audio Collective) http://www.esac.club/index.php
Kanso Audio Stand's http://kansoaudiofurniture.com/
Garman is online now  
post #4616 of 4893 Old 05-12-2016, 02:21 PM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
DonH50's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: Monument CO
Posts: 9,883
Mentioned: 27 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1949 Post(s)
Liked: 1506
They are a small company and there have been several times over the years when lead times have gotten long (months) when they get the exposure and don't have the resources to deliver. Then the furor dies down and they would not have sales to support the staff. A mixed blessing. Still a LOT of hands-on in the building process. And room size and footprint is a big issue for a lot of folk; they are pretty wide so look very big compared to most conventional speakers and a lot of folk do not have, or feel they have, the room for them. I don't think they'll ever be a really big player, and I am not at all sure they want to be. It is still very much a "family" company, one of the things we all love about them, and a lot of sales are word of mouth. Or word of 'net, as it were...
Garman likes this.

"After silence, that which best expresses the inexpressible, is music" - Aldous Huxley
DonH50 is offline  
post #4617 of 4893 Old 05-12-2016, 05:11 PM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
NWCgrad's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: Frederick, MD
Posts: 3,556
Mentioned: 52 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1261 Post(s)
Liked: 1280
Quote:
Originally Posted by dsrussell View Post
One of the things that almost kept me from even auditioning the Magnepans are all the requirements that these speakers need in order to sound good. The more I read about it, the more apprehensive I became. Then I stumbled on Andrew Robinson’s review of the 3.6 (the 3.7’s weren’t out at the time). His theory was simple. He would place them where he places all the speakers he tests out, use a good, but not expensive amp and turn them up very loud and play hard rock (no classical, no Steely Dan, etc). He felt he would either have to turn them off quickly because of immediate ear fatigue, or blow them up in short order. Turns out he was thrilled with them and called all these concerns audiophile BS (he spelled out the word in his review).

The moral of the story, it would have been a big mistake if I had been talked out of auditioning these speakers because of all their so-called baggage. They sound terrific, even if I can’t place them 4 or more feet from the wall. Can you make them sound even better? Sure, but the fact is, they sound great even when not in the ideal location.

Room acoustics? Worry about that after you set them up.
Nice putting to rest the room acoustics issue.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Garman View Post
Well the problem with Maggies, is they don't get enough exposure, I wish they would increase their marketing budget. I would love to have a pair of 3.7i but don't have the room, the 1.7s in my setup is cutting it on space. My main speakers are a pair of Dynaudio Platinum C2s much, much more expensive, not sure if I would say better, just different sounding in a good way...
I like the Made in America, Sold in China ads.

Spent most of the afternoon and evening reading this massive thread (pg 1 and then from page 60 to the end.

I owned MMG'S several years ago and really liked them, when went more heavily into home theater I went with more conventional systems (Paradigm at first, then JBL Professional based DIY). I am getting the itch to purchase new speakers, but it is a year or so off due to other obligations and lack of awareness of what's going on outside of DIY and professional audio.

The Maggie 3.7i's look really nice. However, a set of 5 1.7i's for surround sound would be pretty hard to beat. So many options!!!!!

For subs I am good, I have two JBL Professional 4645B subs that are nearly perfect for music (solid bass to around 20 Hz in my space).

Great info in this thread. Fascinating read, many great systems and interesting comments.
Garman, cctvtech and dsrussell like this.

______________________________________
Home Theater:
http://www.avsforum.com/forum/15-gen...sement-ht.html
NWCgrad is offline  
post #4618 of 4893 Old 05-14-2016, 10:55 AM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
Garman's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: The Moon
Posts: 6,449
Mentioned: 10 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1256 Post(s)
Liked: 554
As I stated before many years ago, I grew up in "White Bear Lake" where Maggies are made, I remember digging around in one of their dumpster for magnets and other parts years ago, not knowing really what they did, well I knew they made speakers and that was just about it. Many years later a friend who I lived with had the SMG's but they lacked bass and never thought they where that great till I heard series 3 pair, can't remember what ones and I was like "Wow" these are great. Then a few years ago, I was at a logo dealer and asked to audition the 3.7's then the 1.7s and I bought the 1.7s after listening to about 5 tracks! Even though I am a huge Dynaudio fan for various reasons, use to sell them for 6 years when I worked at a HiFi shop and still love them to this day... But for the money, leave it up to an American Company to still produce one of the best values in Audio today! Pretty Remarkable and I hope they get even more sales, especially with the .7 who I am also a huge fan of!
dsrussell likes this.

Dynaudio,Magnepan,Hegel, Musical Fidelity,Belles and KEF, etc...... New Belles Aria Pre/Amp on the way! New Amp as far as equipment goes and for speakers the: Contour's 20's or Raidho next...
Charter Member - E.S.A.C. (Eastern Shore Audio Collective) http://www.esac.club/index.php
Kanso Audio Stand's http://kansoaudiofurniture.com/
Garman is online now  
post #4619 of 4893 Old 05-21-2016, 01:40 PM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
Garman's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: The Moon
Posts: 6,449
Mentioned: 10 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1256 Post(s)
Liked: 554
Question: I have had a pair of Maggies for about a year now, I switch back and forth between my Dynaudio Confidence C2 Platinums. Today for the first time during a playback of a Song, the left speaker started to make a vibration sound via the upper right side of panel. I thought it could be a poor recording, but this recording is known to be a good one, and sure enough switched sides to rule out a pre/amp or Amp issue and it's still happening with the same speaker! Anyone else have this issue? These are a pair of 1.7s just before the 1.7i came out. I absolutely love the sound of them, I just hope their customer service and repair is as good as their speakers, at least I have a great dealer for support who has been selling them since the 70's/80's.

Just curious if anyone else has had this problem.... I am going to try a Int. Amp today to see if it produces the same results.

Dynaudio,Magnepan,Hegel, Musical Fidelity,Belles and KEF, etc...... New Belles Aria Pre/Amp on the way! New Amp as far as equipment goes and for speakers the: Contour's 20's or Raidho next...
Charter Member - E.S.A.C. (Eastern Shore Audio Collective) http://www.esac.club/index.php
Kanso Audio Stand's http://kansoaudiofurniture.com/
Garman is online now  
post #4620 of 4893 Old 05-21-2016, 03:55 PM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
DonH50's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: Monument CO
Posts: 9,883
Mentioned: 27 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1949 Post(s)
Liked: 1506
Sorry to hear that! Seems odd to be getting the "death buzz" on so new a pair unless they were driven very hard or just defective. Hopefully you do not have them where they receive direct sunlight.

Magnepan's service is excellent. I got a quote to refurbish my old MG-IIIa's a few years ago. It was less than I anticipated and the lady who answered the phone and the tech were very helpful. Talk with dealer or call Magnepan direct. Shipping them is a pain so I would have the dealer do it just for convenience.

HTH - Don

"After silence, that which best expresses the inexpressible, is music" - Aldous Huxley
DonH50 is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
Reply Speakers

Tags
Magnepan , Magnepan Mmg , Magnepan Mini Maggie System , Magnepan Mg 1 7 , Magnepan Mg 3 7

Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page


Forum Jump: 

Posting Rules  
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off