The Official Magnepan Owners Thread - Page 157 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #4681 of 4699 Old 08-02-2016, 10:29 AM
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My Emotiva Amps are workhorses, never had an issue with them. They are used at least three hours a day, every day. I think they are the best bang for the buck.
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Magnepan 1.7's (LR), Magnepan CC5/DWM (Center Channel), Magnepan MC1's (Surrounds), Rythmik F12 (Sub), Emotiva XMC-1 (Processor), Emotiva XPA-2 Gen2 Drives the 1.7's, Emotiva XPA-5 Drives the Center and Surrounds, Oppo BDP-103, Sony PS4
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post #4682 of 4699 Old 08-02-2016, 11:10 AM
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12B4A,

Well, I had some Denon equipment earlier, and I liked it. But I'm not committed to Denon by any means. In looking at the Denon AV Receiver line on their site, I don't see that any of the reasonably priced AV Receivers have preamp outputs (they have pre outs only for the subwoofer, but not for the mains). That's how I landed on the NAD, searching for AV Receivers that had pre amp outs for the main channels. I also looked at the options of speaker level to line level converters, and also doing surgery on the Receiver to "create" pre outs, but if I can by a reasonable quality reasonably priced unit that will work as is, I would prefer it.

Stustan, thanks for the input on Emotiva.
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post #4683 of 4699 Old 08-02-2016, 11:42 AM
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Originally Posted by Tom in ADK View Post
Thanks, Don. No, unfortunately I can't put these on the floor. The floor in those corners of the room is already taken up with desks and chairs, and those cannot move. Yes, the frequency response is what I am expecting to be strange, because one end of the speaker will be close to the wall, but the other end will be about 20" away. I guess I will find out! I will certainly report the results here, and I'm hoping for the best.

Yes, I know these have very little base. From my past reading here and other places, I'm planning on an SVSound SB-1000 sub, crossed over at about 120 HZ as a starting point. The room is quite small (10 X 15), and we are not "heavy bass fanatics" (we're 70/30 music/movies) so I think the SB-1000 is the right choice - it's also easy on the budget, with scratch and dent units from SVS going for about $450.
I excerpted just the speaker part -- I have no experience with the latest AVRs. I have several Emotiva amplifiers, and an XMC-1, and all seem to be doing fine for me. As well as older Denon, Yamaha, etc. AVRs. The only AVR I regret purchasing is a upper-line'ish (~$1k about five years ago) Sony that had problems driving an older set of Infinity speakers (Alpha or Beta, forget which) let alone my Maggies. My previous experience with Sony ES had been good and I have not tried a newer unit from them. In any event I would try the AVR first, but as you noted, many lower-end models do not have preamplifier outputs and would preclude adding a power amp later. Be sure to check before purchase if that is your plan.

Pro amps from Crown and other companies offer a lot of power for the dollar and generally handle low-impedance loads with aplomb. Maggies are not generally a hard load as they do not have wild impedance excursions, but are low-impedance and low-sensitivity so do require some power.

Sorry, I went back and re-read your original post and you said no room for floorstanders. I was thinking the smaller (narrower) MC1's on stands might fit anyway but alas. I suppose re-arranging the room is out of the question?

You could get (or make, OC-703 etc. is cheap) absorbers to place behind the panels to help kill some of the reverse HF energy to reduce frequency aberrations. You could get a single 2' x 4' panel, maybe cut it in two lengthwise and with acoustic cloth on front and sides to match the ceiling, and tack it to the ceiling behind the speakers. Perhaps you could rig brackets that put the speakers further from the ceiling so the FR is a bit smoother, or at least the effects start lower in frequency. Or hang them a little lower and further into the room on cables, but that depends on space for them without walking into them getting to the desks and such. With that small a room could you fit their Mini Maggie System (http://www.magnepan.com/model_mini_maggie) instead? I am struggling with how the MC1's will sound mounted like that; they may be fine, but conventional speakers do not have that back wave to contend with and might be a better choice in this situation.

I have no experience with SVS. I use Rythmik, and a small Rythmik is within striking distance of the SVS, and probably (?) a better sub. A new Rythmik L12 is $539 shipped, see http://www.rythmikaudio.com/products1.html. The servo design helps control the driver and they mate well with planar speakers IME/IMO. Whatever you get with that high a crossover you'll want the sub centered to avoid image issues caused as the sound drops in frequency.

FWIWFM - Don

"After silence, that which best expresses the inexpressible, is music" - Aldous Huxley
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post #4684 of 4699 Old 08-02-2016, 11:54 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DonH50 View Post
I excerpted just the speaker part -- I have no experience with the latest AVRs. I have several Emotiva amplifiers, and an XMC-1, and all seem to be doing fine for me. As well as older Denon, Yamaha, etc. AVRs. The only AVR I regret purchasing is a upper-line'ish (~$1k about five years ago) Sony that had problems driving an older set of Infinity speakers (Alpha or Beta, forget which) let alone my Maggies. My previous experience with Sony ES had been good and I have not tried a newer unit from them. In any event I would try the AVR first, but as you noted, many lower-end models do not have preamplifier outputs and would preclude adding a power amp later. Be sure to check before purchase if that is your plan.

Pro amps from Crown and other companies offer a lot of power for the dollar and generally handle low-impedance loads with aplomb. Maggies are not generally a hard load as they do not have wild impedance excursions, but are low-impedance and low-sensitivity so do require some power.

Sorry, I went back and re-read your original post and you said no room for floorstanders. I was thinking the smaller (narrower) MC1's on stands might fit anyway but alas. I suppose re-arranging the room is out of the question?

You could get (or make, OC-703 etc. is cheap) absorbers to place behind the panels to help kill some of the reverse HF energy to reduce frequency aberrations. You could get a single 2' x 4' panel, maybe cut it in two lengthwise and with acoustic cloth on front and sides to match the ceiling, and tack it to the ceiling behind the speakers. Perhaps you could rig brackets that put the speakers further from the ceiling so the FR is a bit smoother, or at least the effects start lower in frequency. Or hang them a little lower and further into the room on cables, but that depends on space for them without walking into them getting to the desks and such. With that small a room could you fit their Mini Maggie System (http://www.magnepan.com/model_mini_maggie) instead? I am struggling with how the MC1's will sound mounted like that; they may be fine, but conventional speakers do not have that back wave to contend with and might be a better choice in this situation.

I have no experience with SVS. I use Rythmik, and a small Rythmik is within striking distance of the SVS, and probably (?) a better sub. A new Rythmik L12 is $539 shipped, see http://www.rythmikaudio.com/products1.html. The servo design helps control the driver and they mate well with planar speakers IME/IMO. Whatever you get with that high a crossover you'll want the sub centered to avoid image issues caused as the sound drops in frequency.

FWIWFM - Don
I agree with the recommendation on Rythmik with maggies. It was the best addition to my maggies for 5.1 and...( I know some dont agree 2.1). I think it depends on the material you frequently listen to for that low end. I previsiouly had an SVS sub and found the rhythmik has a more precise base and blends extremly well with this type of speaker. On another note I am still fussing with placement but have come to the conclusion that for 2.1 I bring them out further and closer for serious listening. . For movies I push them closer out to the walls and this gives my screen a more pronounced visual effect too. For movies they seem more forgiving with this set up. Thanks to member Stustan for his help on this!
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post #4685 of 4699 Old 08-02-2016, 12:53 PM
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Thanks to member Stustan for his help on this!
Thanks for the thanks!!! And while we are at it .... Thanks to everyone on this forum .... we share/learn so very much from our experiences
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post #4686 of 4699 Old 08-02-2016, 01:54 PM
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I agree with the recommendation on Rythmik with maggies. It was the best addition to my maggies for 5.1 and...( I know some dont agree 2.1). I think it depends on the material you frequently listen to for that low end. I previsiouly had an SVS sub and found the rhythmik has a more precise base and blends extremly well with this type of speaker. On another note I am still fussing with placement but have come to the conclusion that for 2.1 I bring them out further and closer for serious listening. . For movies I push them closer out to the walls and this gives my screen a more pronounced visual effect too. For movies they seem more forgiving with this set up. Thanks to member Stustan for his help on this!
+1, especially on usage.

When I decided to integrate a subwoofer with my Maggies (a music system only), I did a lot of research. After that research, I did a lot of auditioning, which included JL Audio, Paradigm, Hsu, SVS, a used Velodyne (servo) and PSA (all sealed versions mainly because of size). All top-notch subs, btw, and I auditioned the SVS, Hsu and PSA subs in my home. Why not Rythmik? It’s not that I didn’t try (they were high on my list after researching, and I did hear the Velodyne), but the two models I was interested in for music, were on a 6-month back order at the time. Why not Seaton? Oh, I truly wanted to, but it would have been an expensive audition, should I return it (that, and it looks quite a bit larger than the PSA dual-opposing driver sub). I even auditioned a DSS sub, a 24” monster (that wasn’t available at the time I purchased my sub) at an audio show, just to see how it would handle certain pieces of music I use for testing subs.

By my signature, one can see what I ended up with and have stayed with, but getting exactly what I was after, took time. And what I was after, others probably won’t be. I didn’t want to hear the sub. I wanted to hear the bass from my panels since it is a unique sound experience, and not a sub which would present the bass differently. I only wanted a sub to reproduce what the Maggies couldn’t (pipe organs and synthesizers, plus a little more heft on other instruments around and below 35 Hz). I got precisely what I was looking for. Could I have gotten it with the JL Audio, Seaton, Paradigm and DSS? Yes. The Hsu? No. The PSA XS30? No. The PSA V1500? No. The PSA S3000i? Yes. The Rythmik? Don’t know, but I would think so from what many people have said about them.

My son did audition a Rythmik sub when he was auditioning a 5.1 setup at Ascend Acoustics. A few members (Rythmik owners) wanted to know what he thought about the Rythmik sub. Well, he is using subs already for his HT (a passive 15” down-firing dbx, corner loaded and near-field placement, along with my PSA XS30 I gave him for Christmas). So what do you think he’d say about a 12-inch Rythmik for HT use only in a large room? .

Now, if I were looking for a sub between the SB-1000 (another sub I bought for my son for his office) and a Rythmik 12” model? I’d choose Rythmik (not saying the SB-1000 isn’t a good sub, but it needs to be in a pretty small room to attain useable output near 20 Hz). Plus, let’s face it, the SB-1000 is a very compact sub and would have gone better in his office.

Music area: Magnepan 3.6, McIntosh MC2205 amp & C48 preamp, SVS SB13-Ultra, Oppo BDP 95, dbx 3BX, and assorted equipment.
Movie area: EMP Tek E5Bi (were rebadged to R5Bi), RBH/EMP Tek R55Ti, PSA S3000i, Denon X2000, Oppo BDP 83.
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post #4687 of 4699 Old 08-03-2016, 07:17 AM
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Don:
thanks for your reply. i will be pelting this forum with more questions as i move forward with adding stuff to my system.
Tom:
looks like we are thinking along the same lines. i chose the 758 T since I wasn't planning on adding additional power for a bit. your idea with the emotiva sounds like what i am looking for in terms of adding more juice to the front end (MMG's).

isn't this fun ?
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post #4688 of 4699 Old 08-03-2016, 09:30 AM
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Thanks, all, for the input. So I made the sub decision. I know the Rhythmik L12 might be a little better than the SVS, and I respect everyone's expertise. But I've been watching the SVS Outlet page every day, and I grabbed an SB-1000 (with a scratch on the cabinet) for $399. Could not say no to that price.


It's funny, I expected the sub would be one of the last things I was getting, but I had to grab the bargain.


ricinlakewood, yes, this is fun! And for now, my wife is letting me buy this stuff, as long as I keep the budget very tight.
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post #4689 of 4699 Old 08-03-2016, 04:57 PM
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Thanks, all, for the input. So I made the sub decision. I know the Rhythmik L12 might be a little better than the SVS, and I respect everyone's expertise. But I've been watching the SVS Outlet page every day, and I grabbed an SB-1000 (with a scratch on the cabinet) for $399. Could not say no to that price.


It's funny, I expected the sub would be one of the last things I was getting, but I had to grab the bargain.


ricinlakewood, yes, this is fun! And for now, my wife is letting me buy this stuff, as long as I keep the budget very tight.
your wife is letting you ?!?

not fair !!
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post #4690 of 4699 Old 08-04-2016, 04:09 PM
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So the NAD T748 is on the way - found a deal on a refurbished unit from Spearit Audio in Massachusetts. Great price, fingers crossed that the unit is OK. And the MMGW is on order. I will be trialing the MMGW as front speakers, to try to better understand the acoustics of the room. I have spoken with Wendell at Magnepan a few times. He agrees that if the MMGWs sound good in a particular set up, the MC1 will probably sound good as well. We will see!
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post #4691 of 4699 Old 08-04-2016, 09:37 PM
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Do be aware that the MMGW is essentially a "one-way" speaker and the MC1 is a two-way design with a little more bass and much more extended high end. I have not really heard the MMGW but have a couple of sets of MC1's for surrounds and rears in my system. The MC1 is a significant step up, albeit at a much higher price point. However, the MMGW should tell you if the concept will work in your room, and you can always use them as surrounds if not, or return them.

"After silence, that which best expresses the inexpressible, is music" - Aldous Huxley
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post #4692 of 4699 Old 08-05-2016, 05:18 AM
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If I were in your situation knowing what I know now with my MMGW to MC1 experience, I'd go with just MC1s up front for x number of months until I could afford another pair of MC1s for the rears. YMMV, DSDF etc. but do be attentive to the return period on the MMGWs as even with their lower cost they seem a lesser value when that money can instead be applied towards MC1s. In other words, I think you get more for your money with the MC1s vs. MMGWs.

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post #4693 of 4699 Old 08-05-2016, 05:09 PM
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Thanks, all. My current plan is in fact to move the MMGWs to the rears when I get the MC1s. But I will keep the advice in mind and watch the return period. If I get some kind of windfall or "extra permission" I may be able to swing a second pair of MC1.


NAD receiver showed up today - I have to get to work now setting things up.
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post #4694 of 4699 Old 08-17-2016, 07:16 PM
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Are all resistors the same for tweeter attenuation on Maggies?

I got some "Wirewound Ceramic Cement Resistor 1 Ohm 5% 10W Watt Resistors" on ebay for my MMG.

They work fine however, I was wondering if all resistors are the same or are the one from Magnepan that comes with the speaker the better one in regard to sound quality?



Thanks for your input.
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post #4695 of 4699 Old 08-18-2016, 06:09 AM
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Real resistors are not ideal devices and include some capacitance and inductance as well. Wirewound resistors have more inductance, and additional capacitance across the coils, compared to thick film, metal film, carbon film, or just regular old carbon resistors. That could change the frequency response but in this case I have a hard time seeing that it would matter. I do not remember the type of tweeter resistors that came with my old Maggies (28 years ago and I haven't used them) and haven't looked at newer ones for any length of time. IIRC they use a film resistor, not wirewound, but I really couldn't say. As for sonic changes, no doubt you'll get lots of debate, but I really doubt you'll hear a difference in a blind test. The differences are very small in the audio band and the resistor value is so low there's just not much to worry about IMO.

That said, you could always just call Magnepan and get a pair from them. Personally I wouldn't bother.

FWIWFM - Don

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post #4696 of 4699 Old 08-18-2016, 09:50 AM
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can I tell everyone how much I love these maggies? What they have done for to music for me just blows me away!! Also my Rhythmik subs
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post #4697 of 4699 Old 08-18-2016, 11:44 AM
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can I tell everyone how much I love these maggies? What they have done for to music for me just blows me away!! Also my Rhythmik subs
No.

Well, OK, if you insist...

"After silence, that which best expresses the inexpressible, is music" - Aldous Huxley
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post #4698 of 4699 Old 08-18-2016, 01:38 PM
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Hey dlynch34 .... I don't see lots a tape or markings on your carpet for your favorite speaker positions!!!!!!!! I do love your center channel support system. Would you please describe, and pretty please, perhaps a nice close up photo too. Thanks ..... oh and I am so glad you are so happy!!!!!

Oops!!! I zoomed in on your wonderful pix and guess what? I do see the tape on the carpet for your wider theatrical LR positions .... or am I mistaken. If it is tape on the carpet then you are now an official member of the Maggie Lovers Club ..... Welcome!!!

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So, a quick update on my set up, and thank you all again for the help and advice.


I have the MMGW set up as temporary front speakers, driven by the NAD T748, with an SVS SB-1000 in the front corner position (not so much for sound preference, as because it's the only place it fits). As some may recall, I have the front speakers hung from a 45 degree cathedral ceiling, and when they are deployed, they swing down and slightly in to face the listener.


This is just a preliminary system - and damn it sounds fantastic! My wife wants to go upstairs and listen to music!


(Now, I'm not spoiled, so I may think this sounds better than it really does. My previous system was a pair of 1979 Infinity 1.5's driven by a 1979 Technics receiver. Not bad, but OLD. Then for the last 4 years I've had NO system, during a long process of moving and finishing the new house. So for the last 4 years, I've been listening to music on a boom box, and watching movies on a lap top, with my wife's mono guitar amp for sound. So this set up is a whole hell of a lot better than that.)


Now I can definitely hear the weakness in the MMGW high end, and I can also hear the sub straining a bit to cover the 100 Hz range. So I'm looking forward to the upgrade, which is coming in about three weeks. I'll be getting MC1's, and an Emotiva BASX A-300 power amp. So the MC1's will move into the front spot, and be powered by the A-300; the MMGW's will move to the surround position. And I can drop the crossover frequency a bit on the SB-1000. Looking forward to testing it out!


Has anyone heard any rumors about an Emotiva sale? I know they sometimes have a sale around this time of year...
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