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post #541 of 3753 Old 05-26-2009, 09:08 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Keith944T View Post

Anybody try a pair of CC3's for rears in a surround sound?
What does anybody think of the idea?
My room does not lend itself to verticals in the rear, a bedroom door is right where you would want to place the left rear. But the cathedral ceiling affords adequate space above the door for horizontal placement.

It sounds like it could work, but without seeing your room I perceive a couple potential issues: 1: Will the back of the CC3s be placed directly against walls? If yes, the backwave from their drivers could be an issue. 2: A pair of CC3s seem a bit pricey as surrounds go. A couple of options to consider if price is an issue would be a pair of MMG-Cs used the same way as you propose for the CC3s, or a pair of MC-1s (if you value the quasi ribbon) angled toward your listening position to the extent the room allows.

Eric
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post #542 of 3753 Old 05-27-2009, 04:33 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tkc9789 View Post

I've tried both the MMG-W and MMG. Neither compares with the bookshelves I already have. I'm doubtful that the 5"x12" ones will sound "great". BTW, anybody want a pair of excellent condition MMG for $400+shipping?


Aren't you the guy who said he had the MMG-Ws leaning against the wall? It sounds like you're looking for a speaker that doesn't require any sort of attention with regard to how you set them up, in which case you're probably better off with whatever bookshelf speakers you're using. Maggies require proper set-up and appropriate amplification, and if that's not something you're willing or interested in doing, you're just not going to get the results you're looking for.
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post #543 of 3753 Old 05-27-2009, 06:01 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by elockett View Post

1: Will the back of the CC3s be placed directly against walls? If yes, the backwave from their drivers could be an issue. 2: A pair of CC3s seem a bit pricey as surrounds go. A couple of options to consider if price is an issue would be a pair of MMG-Cs used the same way as you propose for the CC3s, or a pair of MC-1s .

Eric

1. Yes, that is a bit of an issue. I was thinking of hanging them on cables, but that would diminish bass I know. The fronts are 3.6's.

As I look at the room, seems there are only 2 answers...

1.Keep the Klipsch's RS 42's and still be further ahead than most systsems.

2. Get a new house!
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post #544 of 3753 Old 05-27-2009, 06:33 AM
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Keith: You may want to give Wendell a call at Magnepan. He's a pretty sharp fellow and has been very helpful in the past. He's typically very accessible, so if you get a free minute you may want to consider it.

How are you enjoying those 3.6s?
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post #545 of 3753 Old 05-27-2009, 08:20 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Keith944T View Post

1. Yes, that is a bit of an issue. I was thinking of hanging them on cables, but that would diminish bass I know. The fronts are 3.6's.

As I look at the room, seems there are only 2 answers...

1.Keep the Klipsch's RS 42's and still be further ahead than most systsems.

2. Get a new house!

I vote for #2, as I excell at spending other people's money.

Upon reflection (no pun intended) about the backwave issue, you could address that at nominal cost and effort by placing absorbing foam like Auralex panels behind whatever Maggie surround you use. I own these http://truesoundcontrol.com/products/RDSTD36.html and one of the nice things about the wedge faced panels shown in the image is that if you connect the wedge side face to face, they form a thicker rectangular block. Generally speaking, the thicker the foam, lower the frequency it will absorb.

Eric
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post #546 of 3753 Old 05-27-2009, 09:53 AM
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Hi Everyone,

I've recently started with a pair of MMG's for 2 ch stereo and
movies. now that I've become a maggie-fan, I purchases a used pair
of the 1.6's.

I recently purchased the Pioneer Elite SC-05. Using the 1.6's for the fronts
and MMG's for the rears. I set the speakers to LARGE instead of small.

Everything is fine for awhile. I watched a movie, can't remember which
one, it had some tremendous bass and I heard the 1.6's clip, not a good
sound. Everything still sound fine. My question is it clipping due to
the crappy ICE amps cannot handle the 4 ohm load or is it because
the maggies cannot take the abuse of lower frequencies?

I've read and received a few posts where H.T. users set there maggies
for Large Speakers and that the lower frequencies are simply ignored
or not bothered by the maggies. I don't set them to small since
it does not produce a fuller sound as with it set to Large. I have
a sub but don't use it since I'm on the 2nd floor of an apt.

I'm looking to get the emotiva xpa-5 in a few weeks. everything sounds
goods though it could use a little more punch which the xpa-5 hopefully
will perform. my concern is with the clipping, if it can damaged the 1.6
or this will be an ongoing problem even with the xpa-5.

thanks.
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post #547 of 3753 Old 05-27-2009, 01:26 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cctvtech View Post

But the small panels only go down to 300Hz. They'll sell them with a bass panel/coffee table that carries the bass down to 40Hz:


I don't understand how this will work given that you can localize sounds below 300hz.

Absence of evidence is not evidence of absence

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post #548 of 3753 Old 05-27-2009, 03:31 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bengali View Post

......


I recently purchased the Pioneer Elite SC-05. Using the 1.6's for the fronts
and MMG's for the rears. I set the speakers to LARGE instead of small.

Everything is fine for awhile. I watched a movie, can't remember which
one, it had some tremendous bass and I heard the 1.6's clip, not a good
sound. Everything still sound fine. My question is it clipping due to
the crappy ICE amps cannot handle the 4 ohm load or is it because
the maggies cannot take the abuse of lower frequencies?
thanks.......


First let me say.. I must tell you, I'm not trained in any of this, I just go at it from what I learn on forums like this and trial and error (admittedly BIG error!)

I had a similar, but more injurious incident with my 3.6's.

I suggest you look at what your dB settings in your surround settings is. Then manually adjust your dB to the fronts down by at least 3 dB and balance the rears by turning down the db level to them by the same amount. The only down side is the overall volume setting on your receiver will be higher for a corresponding "listening" volume.

Why?

I was bi-amping with an ICE powered amp for lows and a tube for mid-highs.
I had watched a couple movies using the surround settings from the tube amp only configuration, and everything seemed OK. But I had also placed the center channel back into the mix since bi-amping, so I thought I'd use the Audyssy mic and reconfigure the surround settings.
My mistake ( I Think ) was not looking at the settings after the configuration.
Now I don't know what the settings were before I reconfigured, but I did go in and look after the damaging movie.
I watched Babylon AD. Big explosions, lots of very heavy bass too. I noticed the walls rattling, (very loud!) but didn't notice speaker issues. (It was a movie!)
I put on some music afterwards and heard a nasty buzz/rattle in the left speaker in deep male voices that hadn't been there before. Something is wrong with speaker. I called Magnepan, and they will be on their way back shortly. We'll see.

NOW I don't know all the technical mumbo-jumbo and proper terms are , but Here is what I think happened....
When I reconfigured with the Audyssy, the settings it used were +10.5 dB for the front (3.6R's) and -4 dB for the rear (Klipsch RS42s) A HUGE difference for balance, BUT the +10 gain push from the receiver was pushed to the crossover which added another +4 dB (to match the gain of the tube amps) then to the ICE amp and that puppy puts out 1000 w/chnl. So the total gain (If they add together, like I said I'm no techie.. is 14.5 dB
( I looked at the numerical Values after the fact, oops!)
Now since that, I manually backed off the settings to +4 dB to the fronts (now my 1.6's) and the rears (still Klipschs)are now -10.5 dB. Same numerical difference, good sound balance. I'm using just the ICE amp now powering the 1.6's, and boy they do kick out some good bass too! No harm or clipping happening now, however, I didn't play Babylon AD!
So once the 3.6's come back, I'll have to back off the output of the tubes instead of increasing the output of the ICE to balance out before we try the bi-Amp movies again!
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post #549 of 3753 Old 05-27-2009, 04:27 PM
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thanks for your reply.

sorry to hear of mishap with the 3.6's. I would think the 3.6's could handle a bit more power than that. I think in your case though, with your 1000watt ICE amps and +10.5dB level gain, that's plenty of power and got over driven
by the extra level. Did you auto MCACC set the levels to +10.5db? I think in my case, it's under driven causing the clip. I'll check my levels tonight.

the question is for safety of the maggies, it's best to set them the speaker size to SMALL? I really don't like this setting due to the thin sound. might
as well get mini-monitors if you have to do this. what's the point of having
floor standers if they are going to be cut off at 80hz? but then I don't
want to have the worries of it blowing out with certain movies.
some movies have those dangerous lows, like U-571

so you are running 7.1 setup? 1.6's are your temporary fronts till you
get your 3.6's?

how do you like the highs on the 3.6 vs. the 1.6's?
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post #550 of 3753 Old 05-27-2009, 05:32 PM
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Did you auto MCACC set the levels to +10.5db? I think in my case, it's under driven causing the clip. I'll check my levels tonight.

If that means use the Audyssy mic in the auto setup mode (I have an Integra 7.8 AV receiver that powers the rears and center and "passes through" my tube pre-amp to the amps), then Yes.

the question is for safety of the maggies, it's best to set them the speaker size to SMALL?

My Integra doesn't have the small, large settings (I don't think) my old Denon did.

I really don't like this setting due to the thin sound. might
as well get mini-monitors if you have to do this. what's the point of having
floor standers if they are going to be cut off at 80hz? but then I don't
want to have the worries of it blowing out with certain movies.
some movies have those dangerous lows, like U-571

so you are running 7.1 setup?

No, I'm running 5.1, No room for 2 more speakers!

1.6's are your temporary fronts till you
get your 3.6's?

I ran MMG's for 8 years, they are in the basement sitting idle right now. Then I bought a pair of used 1.6's last May, but had the opportunity to hear 3.6's last year on a trip to Detroit for the Stanley Cup Finals last year, I had to get a pair! The 1.6's went to the basement and I was trying to figure out which if any pair to get rid of.

how do you like the highs on the 3.6 vs. the 1.6's?

That's an interesting question. The 3.6's are much warmer, sweeter sounding. The highs aren't as "piercing". The sound is muacj more natural, not that you would know if you didn't hear the 3.6's and only had the 1.6 experience, seriously, I'm very happy with my backups.
Now the interesting part, I had never ran the 1.6's with the ICE amp until this happened, just used the 150 w/chanl Rogues, and before that the Rotel 1080. Which all sounded fine. BUT, with the ICE kicking them, the imagery is OUTSTANDING. Maybe better than my 3.6's. I can hear instrument beside me in 2 channel! I have a full 3-D orchestra of sound. But it's not as sweet and rich, HMMM..
I'm guessing the reason is the size of the speaker. There is more room around the 1.6's to reflect the sound from behind than the 3.6's afford. in the 13 x 20 room.
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post #551 of 3753 Old 05-27-2009, 05:49 PM
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Bengali, I have a setup somewhat similar to yours (1.6 fronts, MMG surround rear, MMG-W surround sides, with a pair of 15" Rythmik servo subs). I high pass filter all of my Maggies and as a result I have yet to experience any clipping or sense of strain on any speaker in my system. Indeed, the single minor problem I've experienced is power loss on my electrical circuit which caused my power generator to cut the sound for a second or two on HT transients (by design for component protection, and only at reference levels on some bombastic HT scenes). My amp is capable of delivering more power than the SC-05 (Wyred 4 Sound 500W x7) and it is this combination I recommend for you: High pass filtered speakers with sub (including 1.6s) and as powerful a power amp as you can afford (especially for the 1.6s).

Your comments suggest that A, the 1.6s don't have unlimited power handling as some reviewers have implied and B, having more power on tap may help mitigate item A.

Until recently, I also lived in an MDU (multi dwelling unit). One of the best enhancements I've made for audio and HT was to move to a detached rental home. I'm paying a third less than the MDU, have more space, and can play my content as loud as my electrical circuit will allow.

Just someting to consider.

Eric

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bengali View Post

Hi Everyone,

I've recently started with a pair of MMG's for 2 ch stereo and
movies. now that I've become a maggie-fan, I purchases a used pair
of the 1.6's.

I recently purchased the Pioneer Elite SC-05. Using the 1.6's for the fronts
and MMG's for the rears. I set the speakers to LARGE instead of small.

Everything is fine for awhile. I watched a movie, can't remember which
one, it had some tremendous bass and I heard the 1.6's clip, not a good
sound. Everything still sound fine. My question is it clipping due to
the crappy ICE amps cannot handle the 4 ohm load or is it because
the maggies cannot take the abuse of lower frequencies?

I've read and received a few posts where H.T. users set there maggies
for Large Speakers and that the lower frequencies are simply ignored
or not bothered by the maggies. I don't set them to small since
it does not produce a fuller sound as with it set to Large. I have
a sub but don't use it since I'm on the 2nd floor of an apt.

I'm looking to get the emotiva xpa-5 in a few weeks. everything sounds
goods though it could use a little more punch which the xpa-5 hopefully
will perform. my concern is with the clipping, if it can damaged the 1.6
or this will be an ongoing problem even with the xpa-5.

thanks.

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post #552 of 3753 Old 05-27-2009, 06:16 PM
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Elockett;

See above post about imaging (and hurting my 3.6's), Another reason to think new house besides building a dedicated Maggie 7.1 surround sound HT/listening room!

Come on PowerBall!
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post #553 of 3753 Old 05-27-2009, 07:16 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by paulwozniak View Post

I want a pair of those for my computer!

Something conceptually similar that's been in production for a while at a reasonable price and requires no sub...

Select LFT-16 from the main menu
http://www.eminent-tech.com/main.html

Eric
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post #554 of 3753 Old 05-27-2009, 07:33 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Keith944T View Post

Elockett;

See above post about imaging (and hurting my 3.6's), Another reason to think new house besides building a dedicated Maggie 7.1 surround sound HT/listening room!

Come on PowerBall!

Yes sir: If Maggies (especially larger ones) have one disadvantage it's the breathing room they need to achieve their full potential.

At 16X19 feet I feel my room is just large enough for 1.6s. I think I'd be really pushing it if I tried 3.6s. However, I have an interesting alternative due in for evaluation tomorrow...

Eric
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post #555 of 3753 Old 05-27-2009, 08:30 PM
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thanks Eric and Keith.

yeah, powerball sounds pretty good

your suggestions are well noted and appreciated.

I'm unfortunately in an upper 1 bedroom dwelling.
I did purchase a small sub but don't even use it as you know why.
that's why I prefer setting the speakers to LARGE. I can still
get some decent lows without the police knocking on my door
everytime I want to watch a movie. I'll have to try it on small
though with the sub at very low level and see how it sounds.

my MCACC set the levels for the fronts at 4dB. the rears at 8.5dB.
I'll recal once I get the xpa-5.

as you both mentioned, room size is the maggie's limitation.
I believe I had much wider sound staging with the MMG's at
high volumes then with the 1.6's simply due to room limitations.

my room is 21 x 13 and have things set length wise. the 1.6's
about 2.5' from the rears, 2' from the sides and I'm back about 10ft.

one day I'll have the 3.6' for the fronts and move the 1.6's to the rears
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post #556 of 3753 Old 05-29-2009, 11:36 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by elockett View Post

Something conceptually similar that's been in production for a while at a reasonable price and requires no sub...

Select LFT-16 from the main menu
http://www.eminent-tech.com/main.html

Eric

Thanks for that, but I am a "maggie" man. Fell in love with them the first time I heard them. Sub not a problem for me. I love my bass, and I have plenty of room around my computer.
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post #557 of 3753 Old 05-29-2009, 12:04 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by paulwozniak View Post

i am a "maggie" man. Fell in love with them the first time i heard them. .

maggies rule baby!!!! :d
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post #558 of 3753 Old 05-29-2009, 09:02 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mrlittlejeans View Post

I don't understand how this will work given that you can localize sounds below 300hz.

Maybe two coffee tables?

Be seeing you!
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post #559 of 3753 Old 06-09-2009, 09:02 PM
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hi everone. i just found this maggie owners thread (it sure was buried deep) and skimmed through the whole thing. glad to see there are other enthusiastic maggie HT owners; maggies aren't exactly an intuitive choice for most for HT duty that's for sure. I used to have an all Martin Logan surround setup which I really enjoyed while I had it, but ended up going with the Maggies since they were more musical (although less detailed) than the Martin logans.

I've dabbled here and there with my setup (too many other hobbies) and am starting to get the bug to tweak/upgrade again after many years of doing nothing. Current setup consists of:

L + R: 20.1 with Mye stands
surround: 1.6
center: CC2
source: popcorn hour, HTPC, PS3, xbox 360
preamp: audible illusions modulus 3
processor: using a HK AVR 254 and using all the pre-outs
amps: 2 X monster cable MPA-2250 to passively vertically biamp the 20.1, 1x MPA-3250 for center and surround duty
sub: Klipsch RSW-15 for .1 duty only
projector: JVC DLA-RS10
screen: DaLite 100" retroreflective manual
power condition: Monster AVS-2000 signature voltage stabilizers and monster htps 7000 signature power conditioners (uh, you might be able to guess where I used to work)

things i'm looking to do:
- active crossover - have a low end 2-way Marchand that I haven't yet tried out. a baby step on the way a nicer 3-way
- find some HT sub(s) (SVS?)
- replace my amps driving top end of the 20.1 with something more musical
- better sound treatment (better WAF)
- dedicated electrical circuits
- upgrade my processor, maybe eliminate my preamp (still have a low end VPI turntable though)
- upgrade my center? or maybe mate the Klipsch sub with the CC2. not sure.
- some Mye stands for the 1.6
- I have a pair of MG12 gathering dust too, but my room size really precludes me from going 7.1 (and I don't where the heck I'd put another amp)
- move my media servers into the garage (fan noise)

I'd appreciate any thoughts or advice anyone had and glad to know this thread is here!
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post #560 of 3753 Old 06-10-2009, 12:49 AM
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Why don't you try your MG1.6 as dual center channel, flanking the screen on each side and oriented at 30 degrees to the front wall? Experiment a little with the angle until you get a solid image locked to the screen. Wire them using the schematic from MC1 manual (available from Maggie Web site). Put them on Sound Anchor or Mye stands so that they are vertical. According to Magnepan, a dual center channel (even a dual MC1) will outperform CC3. For those on the budget, I recommend dual center channel based on MMG. Read more at

http://www.audioasylum.com/cgi/vt.mpl?f=mug&m=141501

You could even try a tri-center per Magnepan recommendation by adding your CC2 to the MG1.6 dual center set-up. As for MG12, dust them off, and use them as surround speakers (on Sound Anchor stands).

I suspect that in your case (given that you have 20.1 as mains), a dual center channel based on 3.6 would be absolutely terrific, and a superb match with the mains because of the ribbon tweeter. But it would be a very expensive center channel speaker if purchased new. Maybe a used IIIA or 3.5 in good condition would work just as well.
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post #561 of 3753 Old 06-10-2009, 07:10 AM
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Donato: I wish I could hear that system!
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post #562 of 3753 Old 06-10-2009, 10:01 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sdv5 View Post

Why don't you try your MG1.6 as dual center channel, flanking the screen on each side and oriented at 30 degrees to the front wall? Experiment a little with the angle until you get a solid image locked to the screen. Wire them using the schematic from MC1 manual (available from Maggie Web site). Put them on Sound Anchor or Mye stands so that they are vertical. According to Magnepan, a dual center channel (even a dual MC1) will outperform CC3. For those on the budget, I recommend dual center channel based on MMG. Read more at

http://www.audioasylum.com/cgi/vt.mpl?f=mug&m=141501

You could even try a tri-center per Magnepan recommendation by adding your CC2 to the MG1.6 dual center set-up. As for MG12, dust them off, and use them as surround speakers (on Sound Anchor stands).

I suspect that in your case (given that you have 20.1 as mains), a dual center channel based on 3.6 would be absolutely terrific, and a superb match with the mains because of the ribbon tweeter. But it would be a very expensive center channel speaker if purchased new. Maybe a used IIIA or 3.5 in good condition would work just as well.

interesting read. Thanks. I had briefly toyed with the idea of using the MG12s as center, although given the importance of center channel duty, it makes sense to have high quality speaker(s) there. The unfortunate reality is that I have a narrow room and I've shoehorned the 20.1 as it is. Many would probably say it is too big for the room, but in the end, I still preferred the sound of the 20.1 better than the smaller maggies in my room. Granted, I'm not likely getting the most out of them, but it's as good as I can do with what I've got.
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post #563 of 3753 Old 06-29-2009, 10:06 AM
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I had a day with the house to myself, so I spent the day listening to music at suitable volume levels. those of you who are "married with children", may sympathize how hard that may be to achieve. I was reminded how fantastic a properly set up Magnepan system really sounds!

My system is rather modest compared to others here. MC1's up front, MMG-W's for surround and MMG-C's front and back. Two subwoofers for the bottom reinforcement, driven by a modest Onkyo 805. 8 hours of musical bliss for me last Saturday! Played some SACD's, some forgotten vinyl, and other suitable gems from my 1K+ music collection.

If you're "married with children", do yourself a favor and send them off for a day, and sit back and do what you used to do before - listen to some music, uninterrupted by your kids, at whatever volume suits your needs!
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post #564 of 3753 Old 06-29-2009, 12:03 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by paulwozniak View Post

If you're "married with children", do yourself a favor and send them off for a day, and sit back and do what you used to do before - listen to some music, uninterrupted by your kids, at whatever volume suits your needs!

Only one day? Too much to listen to; not enough time!

Be seeing you!
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post #565 of 3753 Old 06-30-2009, 11:48 AM
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I'll take what I can get. Those days are few and far between for me. I love my wife and kids, but that belated Father's Day gift, ranked up with one of the best I've ever received.
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post #566 of 3753 Old 07-21-2009, 09:35 PM
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I need some advice. I own a pair of MGLR-1 that I got 12 years ago. I also just got an emotiva amp I I cranked it up a bit loud. Needless to say. I heard some rattle on one of the speaker. I might have to send them back to Magnepan for fixing. should I save the money to buy a new pair? How can I box it to ship back. I threw away the original box long time ago.

thanks
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post #567 of 3753 Old 07-22-2009, 09:27 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by morph01 View Post

I need some advice. I own a pair of MGLR-1 that I got 12 years ago. I also just got an emotiva amp I I cranked it up a bit loud. Needless to say. I heard some rattle on one of the speaker. I might have to send them back to Magnepan for fixing. should I save the money to buy a new pair? How can I box it to ship back. I threw away the original box long time ago.

thanks

Looking at the specs for the LR-1, it appears they are very similar to the MMG's:

SIZE
MGLR-1 = 14w x 49h x 1.25d
MMG = 14.5w x 48h x 1.25d

FREQ. RESP.
MGLR-1 = 60Hz-24kHz ±3dB
MMG = 50Hz - 24kHz ±3 dB

I guess a little better bass response from the MMG's but similar specs. Interestingly, the LR-1 debuted in '98 and the modern MMG in '99.

If you can afford them, I would look at a slightly higher model, although you could "try" the MMG's for 60 days free. Go to http://www.magnepan.com/model_MMG. You have to buy them for $599 a pair but according to Magnepan: "the Magnepan 60 day satisfaction guarantee is a chance for you to experience ... first hand... what this new technology can do for your audio/video system ... in your home ... at your leisure.

If you want to climb to an even higher level of performance, you can move up to a better model at a Magneplanar dealer in your area for up to a year.

Depending on the model you purchase, you can receive up to full credit from Magnepan for your MMGs."


Otherwise, I would choose the 1.6QR's as the best compromise of price & performance.

Be seeing you!
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post #568 of 3753 Old 07-24-2009, 04:23 PM
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Hi all,

I am a relatively new user here and setting up a home theatre. Would MG-IIBs have too low an impedance (5 Ohms) for most new budget receivers? Thinking of a Pioneer VSX 919 or 1019.

The Pioneer 919 caught my eye as it has a pair of unamped outs for rear surround speakers and I was thinking of using the Maggies for this (or at least the side surround pair). However this output can't run in isolation.

I have a pair of rebuilt Counterpoint SA-100s to run the Maggies (my stereo setup, with the Ah! Njoe tjoeb 4000 as the front end.)
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post #569 of 3753 Old 07-25-2009, 06:23 AM
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I would not bother with the AVRs. Nothing compares to a separate 2ch amp that are well built.

I used to drive my MG12's using Yamaga RX-V663. I then got the Rotel RB-1080 and Anthem AVM20 V2.21 and couldnt be happier. The AVR is sitting in the box in the closet!
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post #570 of 3753 Old 07-25-2009, 10:54 AM
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Unfortunately there's no room for me to place the Maggies for TV listening. As it is, I have to move chair to the listening position. The maggies are placed where the surround speakers should go. Still will use the Counterpoints (tubes!) and Ah! (tubes!) CD for music.
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