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post #61 of 125 Old 12-05-2008, 09:06 PM
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Originally Posted by cschang View Post

I have heard the Eras, the CM1, and the 42. It would be worthwhile to get a listen to the Eras if you can, and the Dynaudio. IMO, the CM1 leaves a lot to be desired.

I think the CM1 would at least be worth a listen. It does have its own sound signature, but I could see how some would like it. It pushes the vocal range foward so the singer is right in your face. This seems to particularly true of female singers. At the same time the high end is a bit rolled off, at least compared to the eras. They were a speaker that was very easy to listen to. The imaging and soundstage were very good on the CM1 maybe even a bit better then either of the eras. I had AB the CM1 against the era D5 and thought that the era was just a bit more natural. They were both good speakers though.
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post #62 of 125 Old 12-05-2008, 09:40 PM
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Originally Posted by ericm83 View Post

I think the CM1 would at least be worth a listen. It does have its own sound signature, but I could see how some would like it. It pushes the vocal range foward so the singer is right in your face. This seems to particularly true of female singers. At the same time the high end is a bit rolled off, at least compared to the eras. They were a speaker that was very easy to listen to. The imaging and soundstage were very good on the CM1 maybe even a bit better then either of the eras. I had AB the CM1 against the era D5 and thought that the era was just a bit more natural. They were both good speakers though.

You thought it push the vocal range forward? To me, the midrange was recessed/lacking. Measurements seem to reflect this as well.

You are right though, I am sure some people like it.

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post #63 of 125 Old 12-05-2008, 10:00 PM
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Well what I had noticed when ABing the CM1 with the D5 is that with the CM1 the singer seemed to be only a few feet in front on you, whereas with the D5 the singer seemed to be back closer to the plane of the speakers. The vocals didn't seem necessarily louder, just more forward in the soundstage. After the audition I looked at the frequency response of the CM1 and noticed the bump between 700Hz and 1500Hz (which you can see in the soundstage measurement I attached) and assumed that it was the culprit.
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post #64 of 125 Old 12-05-2008, 10:14 PM
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Could very well be what you heard.

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post #65 of 125 Old 12-06-2008, 10:37 AM - Thread Starter
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Ooh. Those ERA D5's look nice... Haven't ever heard of them. Are they as good as the specs indicate? Do you think 3 D5's would perform better than 3 Sierra Centers since they will be upright?

Nearest ERA dealer looks to be in Cincinnati.
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post #66 of 125 Old 12-06-2008, 10:41 AM - Thread Starter
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I went to a B&W dealer and heard the 600 series. I think it was the 685. Sounded nice, but the guy kept telling me that they are way down on the quality chain from the other B&W offerings. He had a CM center, but no CM1's. He said the 686's would be a 1 star out of 4 and the CM1's would be a 2 out of 4. I'm not looking for 1 or 2 out of 4.

The Paradigm option is interesting. That 590 is bringing sexy back. I just don't have room for the Studio 20's. If I did, I'd just as well go the floorstander route.
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post #67 of 125 Old 12-06-2008, 10:49 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tpLouKY View Post

I went to a B&W dealer and heard the 600 series. I think it was the 685. Sounded nice, but the guy kept telling me that they are way down on the quality chain from the other B&W offerings. He had a CM center, but no CM1's. He said the 686's would be a 1 star out of 4 and the CM1's would be a 2 out of 4. I'm not looking for 1 or 2 out of 4.

The Paradigm option is interesting. That 590 is bringing sexy back. I just don't have room for the Studio 20's. If I did, I'd just as well go the floorstander route.

Of course the dealer wanted to push the more expensive speaker. I own the 685 and think it is better than the cm1. IMO the 705 is only slightly better than the 685 but not worth the extra $. B&W made this cycle of 600 too well if you ask my dealer who can't sell the cm or 700 series after people hear the 600 series.
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post #68 of 125 Old 12-06-2008, 11:49 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tpLouKY View Post

Ooh. Those ERA D5's look nice... Haven't ever heard of them. Are they as good as the specs indicate? Do you think 3 D5's would perform better than 3 Sierra Centers since they will be upright?

Nearest ERA dealer looks to be in Cincinnati.

IMO...no, but you need to listen for yourself.

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post #69 of 125 Old 12-06-2008, 12:24 PM - Thread Starter
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longfellowfan, did you have a listen to the 686's?
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post #70 of 125 Old 12-06-2008, 02:55 PM
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Cool thread. Good luck on your quest, tpLouKY.

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post #71 of 125 Old 12-06-2008, 03:22 PM
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Originally Posted by tpLouKY View Post

longfellowfan, did you have a listen to the 686's?

Unfortunately I have not heard them.
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post #72 of 125 Old 12-06-2008, 03:51 PM
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The Era D5's are very nice little speakers. The amount and quality of the bass was very surprising as well. To my ears they seem to lean on the warmer side of neutral but not in a bad way. The D5's should also be able to pair up with the MFW-15 rather nicely. They offer a lot of performance for music and HT and look good to boot. Hard to imagine being disappointed with that purchase.

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post #73 of 125 Old 12-06-2008, 04:49 PM
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Keeping with the AV123 family, you could also place three ELT525's monitors across the front. Would they squeak in at 6.12" W x 11.25" H x 9.81" D?

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post #74 of 125 Old 12-06-2008, 08:49 PM - Thread Starter
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okay, so if I went with floorstanders, I'd have about 2' on either side of the screen to work with before I hit drywall. Is this enough room?
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post #75 of 125 Old 12-06-2008, 08:53 PM
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Quote:


I went to a B&W dealer and heard the 600 series. I think it was the 685. Sounded nice, but the guy kept telling me that they are way down on the quality chain from the other B&W offerings. He had a CM center, but no CM1's. He said the 686's would be a 1 star out of 4 and the CM1's would be a 2 out of 4. I'm not looking for 1 or 2 out of 4.

IMO, B&W dealers are the worst for trying to push "more profitable" speakers..I have never had a good experience with them.

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post #76 of 125 Old 12-06-2008, 08:53 PM - Thread Starter
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another question. I've read that d5's really like power. Are D5's 'harder to drive' than floorstanders? Why?
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post #77 of 125 Old 12-06-2008, 08:54 PM
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okay, so if I went with floorstanders, I'd have about 2' on either side of the screen to work with before I hit drywall. Is this enough room?

Which ones?

I would suggest some side wall treaments....you can make a frame put 2" OC703 fiberglass in it, put a nice oil painting canvas over it

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post #78 of 125 Old 12-06-2008, 09:09 PM - Thread Starter
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The function of the room prohibits any kind of wall treatment.
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post #79 of 125 Old 12-06-2008, 09:48 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tpLouKY View Post

another question. I've read that d5's really like power. Are D5's 'harder to drive' than floorstanders? Why?

They are not really high efficiency speakers and they do like high current designs, but I have head them off of a 80 watt amp and they sounded great. They are recommended for use with 50-200 watts and are ~85 db in efficiency with a nominal impedance of 8 Ohms. So they are not that hard to drive, the AV123 ELT-M's are similar.

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post #80 of 125 Old 12-06-2008, 10:37 PM - Thread Starter
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thanks for the info. i was getting worried that I'd have to get a dedicated amp to drive these.

So should I audition the D5's or the D4's?
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post #81 of 125 Old 12-06-2008, 11:41 PM
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Between the D5 and D4 it doesn't really matter too much, as long as you use a sub on all your listening. Too me the two sound identical except for the D5 extending a good bit lower. This will mean that you could cross your sub over lower if you wanted to. I have heard others (at least one other anyways) say that they can tell a difference between their midranges and they preferred the D4. Oh, also, the D4 puts out a prodigious amount of air from the rear port. Auditioning them the saleman had set one of them up about a foot in front of another speaker. When I played a bass heavy track there was this horrible sound. The only conclusion I could come to was the air out of the rear port was causing the driver on the speaker behind it to flutter. I moved the speaker a foot further into the room and the sound went away. From your setup I don't think you'll have a problem, but just so you know. The D5 is $300 more than the D4.
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post #82 of 125 Old 12-07-2008, 04:33 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tpLouKY View Post

The function of the room prohibits any kind of wall treatment.

Even acoustic panels with stands, so they can be stored out of sight or brought out as needed?
This solution does give the flexibility of not changing the room in any way, and still does help as long as good panels are used.

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post #83 of 125 Old 12-07-2008, 03:49 PM - Thread Starter
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The main use of this room is a showroom for a business. So I want it to sound great AND look great.
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post #84 of 125 Old 12-08-2008, 07:25 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ericm83 View Post

Well what I had noticed when ABing the CM1 with the D5 is that with the CM1 the singer seemed to be only a few feet in front on you, whereas with the D5 the singer seemed to be back closer to the plane of the speakers. The vocals didn't seem necessarily louder, just more forward in the soundstage. After the audition I looked at the frequency response of the CM1 and noticed the bump between 700Hz and 1500Hz (which you can see in the soundstage measurement I attached) and assumed that it was the culprit.

I could be wrong.... but I thought the range for vocal sound was mostly between 300Hz and 3kHz. If that's correct, I would understand why the singer sounded farther away and quieter according to that graph as there is a dip between 1-5kHz.

EDIT: I just reread the post and I misinterpreted which speaker that was a graph for. If that is the CM1's output, I'd like to see the D5's output as well to compare what is happening in the vocal ranges.
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post #85 of 125 Old 12-08-2008, 08:31 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tpLouKY View Post

The main use of this room is a showroom for a business. So I want it to sound great AND look great.

Can't you camoflage the wall treatments?

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post #86 of 125 Old 12-08-2008, 09:00 PM - Thread Starter
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camouflage?
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post #87 of 125 Old 12-09-2008, 08:18 AM - Thread Starter
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onkyo sr805 is ordered. I know, I saw the thread about buying speakers first, but I didn't see how I could get around it if I want to audition several sets in my own home. Once it arrives, i'll get going on the speakers...

right now the two I'm auditioning for sure are:

5 ERA D4's (or D5's)
3 Sierra Centers and 2 HTM 200 SE's

Depending on what my B&W Dealer can do, I may try to get some CM1's into the media room too. And the Paradigm Atom's are right up there too, although I don't know where I can purchase them.
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post #88 of 125 Old 12-12-2008, 08:58 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tpLouKY View Post

onkyo sr805 is ordered. I know, I saw the thread about buying speakers first, but I didn't see how I could get around it if I want to audition several sets in my own home. Once it arrives, i'll get going on the speakers...

right now the two I'm auditioning for sure are:

5 ERA D4's (or D5's)
3 Sierra Centers and 2 HTM 200 SE's

Depending on what my B&W Dealer can do, I may try to get some CM1's into the media room too. And the Paradigm Atom's are right up there too, although I don't know where I can purchase them.

I am late to the party, but the Era's and Sierra's should definitely be in your top 3 in my opinion. Also, I'd add Vandersteen into the number 2 slot.

1) Ascend Sierra's
2) Vandersteen VLR-1's
3) Era D5's

All three of those speakers are fantastic for the money. Just my $0.02.

Happy hunting.

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post #89 of 125 Old 01-14-2009, 10:22 PM - Thread Starter
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I've been busy since the last post in this thread. Busy finding out that bookshelf speakers aren't going to cut it for me. I really liked (didn't love) the sierras. Honestly, what made me return them was the visual appearance. They just didn't wow me (or anybody else). Most people who I asked agreed that floorstanders would have a better feel in the room. I agree. So now my quest has gotten a little bigger. The speakers I'm looking at are:

KEF iQ7/iQ6c
KEF iQ9/iQ6c
PSB T55/C60
Monitor Audio RS6/RSLCR
Paradigm Monitor 9/CC290

Budget is under 2K for 5 speakers (already have sub). I honestly think I'll be happy with anything that looks as good as it sounds. IMO the ones above are all very handsome speakers. (don't want to say pretty!) Satin black finish or a brown that works in with the color scheme of the room.

Any suggestions?
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post #90 of 125 Old 01-14-2009, 11:26 PM
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Well I think you are taking a step backwards in sound quality with those choices when compared with the ascend sierras, but that is what you are going to have to do to get a floorstander in your price range.

Was your problem with the Sierras purely visual or were you unhappy with the sound as well. One thing that can really improve the visual impact of a bookshelf is a good hefty set of speaker stands. Ascend even makes a pair that give the sierras the appearance of being floorstanders. As you can see below.


If you simply didn't like the looks of the Sierras then I would suggest looking at other bookshelves that are better looking (era D5, NHT Classic Three, etc...)

If you're set on going with floorstanders, however, all the ones you've listed are good choices in the price range. Also look at the Polk RTi A7.
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