Inexpensive In Ceiling Speakers - AVS Forum
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post #1 of 35 Old 12-12-2008, 08:02 AM - Thread Starter
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Hi all -
Have searched and read many threads here, still searching for a few pointers and hopefully consolidate some information in this thread.

I'm looking at in-ceiling speakers for listening to music in a long, narrow room (32' x 12.5'). I think I will need 4, possibly 6 speakers. Some of the time the music will be low, background music. Sometimes I want to be able to turn it up. I don't have room for a sub, so I need speakers with the best bass response and sound I can afford. On the other hand, I'm trying to spend less than $600 or so, if possible. It doesn't have to be audiophile sound, whatever it is will beat the heck out of my iPod @home little dock unit I'm relying on now

This is what I'm considering, everything is 6" or 8", in ceiling -
Monoprice
JBL
Infinity
Polk Audio

Probably out of my price range, but still on the wish list -
Speaker Craft AIM (not sure which series)
Sonance
Revel


There's so much to choose from and I can't install each of them to test them out first. I know you often get what you pay for, but there are also speakers out there which you're paying a lot for a brand name.... so... any suggestions?

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post #2 of 35 Old 12-12-2008, 08:53 AM
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check out the in-ceiling speakers from Parts Express. Quality builds for the money in their "Dayton" brand:

http://www.parts-express.com/webpage...ctGroup_ID=379
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post #3 of 35 Old 12-12-2008, 09:23 AM
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For the price I can't say enough about the Monoprice 8" Kevlar 2-way. They sound great for a fraction of the price of similar size speakers.

http://www.monoprice.com/products/pr...seq=1&format=2
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post #4 of 35 Old 12-12-2008, 10:40 AM
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definitive technology would give you a very full sound
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post #5 of 35 Old 12-12-2008, 01:15 PM
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i second the monoprice,have four and are great
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post #6 of 35 Old 12-16-2008, 10:44 AM - Thread Starter
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Thanks! I will look into Definitive Technology, and that's several votes for Monoprice and I read good things about them in the long Monoprice speakers thread.

I'll probably give the the Monoprice speakers a whirl just because, at that price, if I don't like them, I can spend a lot more later and it will be a drop in the bucket. But if I do like them, it's a heck of a savings!

- - -

I understand this is a tough question to answer scientifically, but wondering if there's a rule of thumb...

Are the more expensive speakers less dependent on back boxes? Thought I'd read that in ceiling speakers are infinite baffle (IB) by design and don't require, in fact don't want back boxes, but others have said back boxes make the inexpensive speakers sound better.

Do you avoid back boxes with more expensive speakers?

Building MDF boxes is no biggie, but it will be my first build and I can't experiment because I've got to get the MDF boxes up before we drywall but I haven't settled on speakers yet. I'm thinking of just doing a 2 cubic feet or so for the boxes and maybe some foam or a piece of R-13 inside hoping to keep the sound from leaking upstairs too much and getting a little better performance out of the speakers at the same time.

If more expensive speakers eliminate the need for back boxes, that's one less variable.

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post #7 of 35 Old 12-16-2008, 10:55 AM
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You could get into the Parasound C65's at your budget. They do a pretty decent job for both music and HT. We use them all the time with great success.

http://www.parasound.com/c-series/c65.php

Plus, they have a 10-year warranty!

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post #8 of 35 Old 12-16-2008, 11:22 AM
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Saw these on the web, FWIW. I haven't heard them but some of their other speakers are decent.

Cambridge Soundworks
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post #9 of 35 Old 12-16-2008, 11:24 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bmcent1 View Post

- - -

I understand this is a tough question to answer scientifically, but wondering if there's a rule of thumb...

Are the more expensive speakers less dependent on back boxes? Thought I'd read that in ceiling speakers are infinite baffle (IB) by design and don't require, in fact don't want back boxes, but others have said back boxes make the inexpensive speakers sound better.

Do you avoid back boxes with more expensive speakers?

Building MDF boxes is no biggie, but it will be my first build and I can't experiment because I've got to get the MDF boxes up before we drywall but I haven't settled on speakers yet. I'm thinking of just doing a 2 cubic feet or so for the boxes and maybe some foam or a piece of R-13 inside hoping to keep the sound from leaking upstairs too much and getting a little better performance out of the speakers at the same time.

If more expensive speakers eliminate the need for back boxes, that's one less variable.

http://www.cepro.com/article/how_to_...peaker_systems

The quality of the speaker has little to do with the necessity for dedicated enclosures. (Backboxes are "enclosures", but they are not designed for one specific speaker, they can be used with multiple speakers and don't necessarily enhance the sound quality of the speaker. They do improve (reduce) the sound transmission to other spaces.)

Dedicated enclosures are designed to augment the sound quality of the speaker/enclosure/crossover "system". They also reduce the interaction of the speaker with the wall, reducing resonance and vibration. If you want high sound quality, good bass response and very little wall interaction, you'll need speakers with dedicated enclosures, not just backboxes.

I can recommend the Mirage Omnicans, in-ceiling speakers. They have dedicated enclosures, omni-directional dispersion and they fit your budget:
http://www.amazon.com/Mirage-OMNICAN.../dp/B000FBRBZG
I have helped 2 friends install these speakers, one in a kitchen/family room audio system, and one in a surround system as the side and rear surrounds. Both systems sounded excellent.

Good luck.

Craig

Lombardi said it:
Perfection is not attainable, but if we chase perfection we can catch excellence."


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post #10 of 35 Old 12-16-2008, 12:08 PM
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Craig,

I'm in the market for in-ceiling surround speakers as well and you're the second to recommend the Mirage Omnican 5.

Two quick questions:

I've never heard Mirage before. Do I need to worry about tonality/timing with Klipsch towers and reference center?

Since the speaker/grill aren't a flush mount, how do they look? I'm a tad concerned with the bump-out.

Thanks
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post #11 of 35 Old 12-16-2008, 12:16 PM - Thread Starter
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On the Omnican, the price is right but I fear the orb shape will look odd in my studio, everything else (including 10 recessed lights) is flush with the ceiling.

There is a dedicated theater off this room, so in this studio room, I want good sound but it has to balance with aesthetics.

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post #12 of 35 Old 12-16-2008, 12:32 PM
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Google NXG in ceiling speakers.
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post #13 of 35 Old 12-16-2008, 12:54 PM
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Ray,

wow - the PRO specs are nice at 37HZ. that's on par with Phase and NHT and half the price of these vendors (140/pair at B&H).

Thanks for the input on NXG.
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post #14 of 35 Old 12-16-2008, 01:37 PM
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I just spoke with NXG Technologies. They have two sites up at the same time (one is being decommissioned). Here's the new addy.

http://www.nxgtechnology.com/nxg_proseries.html

The site is not exactly pristine yet (tables are off). You can scroll down and select the series (Pro) then you'll find another table near the bottom to compare/contrast.

They only sell through custom installers, but plain'ole end-users like us can buy thru Radioshack.com or Homedepot.com. I asked why. They stated that these two online vendors keep MAP pricing so their installer base won't get undercut. It means we won't be able to shave $20-40 off list (MAP).

Oh well....but comparing specs against other vendors like Phase & NHT, I'm baffled how they can sell a pair for $200 list. One of the developers, Jeff, answered the phone and was very helpful.
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post #15 of 35 Old 12-16-2008, 05:47 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bmcent1 View Post

On the Omnican, the price is right but I fear the orb shape will look odd in my studio, everything else (including 10 recessed lights) is flush with the ceiling.

There is a dedicated theater off this room, so in this studio room, I want good sound but it has to balance with aesthetics.

The aesthetics of the Omnicans are pretty sedate. Although they extend down a little from the ceiling, they are hardly noticeable in the room. My friend who put them in the kitchen/family room audio system has multiple recessed lights in these rooms as well, and the Omnicans blend in easily. They can be painted with the ceiling color, if that is laittle "off-white" to lessen their visibility even more.

Quote:
Originally Posted by IslandStyle View Post

Ray,

wow - the PRO specs are nice at 37HZ. that's on par with Phase and NHT and half the price of these vendors (140/pair at B&H).

Thanks for the input on NXG.

A speaker generating 37 Hz with an "enclosure" made of drywall and pine dimension lumber will cause the "enclosure" to buzz, hum, rattle, vibrate and resonate. Have you ever seen a real box speaker designed with an enclosure made of drywall and 2" x 4"s? Of course not. Those are horrible materials to use for speaker enclosures. Yet, that is exactly what unenclosed in-walls/in-ceilings use. In addition, they depend on an enclosure of unknown size and construction: the cavity could be 3.5" deep in an interior wall or 9.5" deep in between ceiling joists; the cavity could be 16" OC in an interior wall or 24" OC in an exterior wall; the cavity could be 12" tall between a window and and a ceiling or it could be 12' tall in a cathedral ceiling wall; the walls could be insulated or they could be wide open cavities; the drywall could be simply nailed to the studs or it could be sealed with glue and screws to pine studs to be the "enclosure".

Bottom line, even if you could dictate the dimensions of the enclosure, drywall and pine dimension lumbar do not make good speaker enclosures. It doesn't matter how high-quality the drivers are... if the wall is making/leaking noise, you won't hear the quality of the drivers.

Craig

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post #16 of 35 Old 12-16-2008, 06:11 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by craig john View Post


A speaker generating 37 Hz with an "enclosure" made of drywall and pine dimension lumber will cause the "enclosure" to buzz, hum, rattle, vibrate and resonate. Have you ever seen a real box speaker designed with an enclosure made of drywall and 2" x 4"s? Of course not.

But, if you're willing to make an MDF back box (I am) ... do you have any gripes with the 37 Hz response of the NXG speakers?

Mine are going in ceiling joists, so I have about 9.5" depth to work with. If I use 3/4" MDF, double layer on the back and one layer on the front, cuts that down to roughly 7" air space. I think the joists are 12" oc but might be 16" oc in that part of the room. Not a lot of obstructions within the cavities between joists, so I could build a box that's 7" x 11" x 2' (or longer) and do it with double MDF, screw and glue, and GG between the double layers and possibly where the box attaches to the joists.

I don't think I could get indepth enough to build a box tuned to the particular speaker, too much else going on with this project, but building a simple back box shouldn't cost much in terms of time and materials.

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post #17 of 35 Old 12-16-2008, 09:01 PM - Thread Starter
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The specs on the Definitive Technology UIW/94A and UIW/83A look incredible in terms of range (27Hz-30kHz) but they don't mention crossover db per octave. Also they are 2-way.
-They list at $299 and $239 respectively for a pair

Monoprice 8" kevlar has less range at 43 Hz - 20,000 Hz, but have a 12 dB per octave crossover. The are also 2-way.
- Priced at $116 per pair

NXG looks really sweet, the NX-PRO103i for example is 3-way, 28Hz-22kHz, 12 dB crossover. It's in another class price-wise, but still in budget with actual prices being much lower than list.
- Priced at $400 / pair but found for $240 at HD


I hadn't heard of any of these (accept monoprice) before the posts. Thanks! I guess I've heard of the JBL, Polk, etc but looking like the specs of the speakers may have have more to offer for the money.

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post #18 of 35 Old 12-17-2008, 09:19 AM
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Craig John,

I appreciate your input and suggestions. I'm just not sure about the bump out on the Mirage units. I don't think I could get over them (I guess I'm type-A).

So, now I'm thinking of enclosure boxes. I am not handy so building an MDF enclosure box ain't happening. I read one of your posts on another thread recommending/suggesting Dynabox, which looks to be a very clever design. This thread was related to sound bleed from ceiling to floor. I have a one-story home where this is not a concern.

Anyhow, the Dynabox is rather expensive at 124/each, unfortunately. This basically doubles the cost of the speakers I wanted and blows my budget for 2 pairs.

Do you have any other ideas/suggestions/box vendors which would be more economical. I did a search last night on google and it didn't yield much in the way of pre-fab'd enclosures.
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post #19 of 35 Old 12-17-2008, 09:22 AM
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Sanity check:

I read this post on another forum about not needing enclosures for in-ceiling installs. Not trying to challenge anyone here. I just want to learn as I'm a newbie at this. (I tend to read alot).

A cabinet is a convenient way to hold speakers. An enclosure is composed of a top and bottom, two sides and two baffles - front and rear. You have a front baffle - the celing - which will keep the backwave from wrapping around the driver to interfere with the front wave. That's the purpose of a baffle in a sealed (acoustic suspension) enclosure.

Unless the baffle has air leaks or is very small, a baffle with the speakers mounted on it is all you need. No box. No insulation.

This would be termed an "infinitie baffle" if the driver's longest wavelength is shorter than the longest dimension of the baffle.

Listen to the speaker without insulation behind it. Insulation serves different purposes in a speaker enclosure. One purpose is to make the enclosure appear larger than it really is by attentuating the backwave of the driver. This is unnecessary in an infinite baffle. A layer of insualtion on top of a ceiling mounted speaker can provide some help if the backwave of the driver is firing into another hard surface such as the floor of the room above it. Otherwise, if the speaker is working into an attic space, a thin layer of insulation would simply keep the driver from collecting dirt and dust.
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post #20 of 35 Old 12-17-2008, 09:53 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bmcent1 View Post

But, if you're willing to make an MDF back box (I am) ... do you have any gripes with the 37 Hz response of the NXG speakers?

Mine are going in ceiling joists, so I have about 9.5" depth to work with. If I use 3/4" MDF, double layer on the back and one layer on the front, cuts that down to roughly 7" air space. I think the joists are 12" oc but might be 16" oc in that part of the room. Not a lot of obstructions within the cavities between joists, so I could build a box that's 7" x 11" x 2' (or longer) and do it with double MDF, screw and glue, and GG between the double layers and possibly where the box attaches to the joists.

I don't think I could get indepth enough to build a box tuned to the particular speaker, too much else going on with this project, but building a simple back box shouldn't cost much in terms of time and materials.

You need to ask NXG if these speakers will be impacted by an enclosure of the dimensions and materials you are considering. If they're designed to be "infinite baffle" speakers, they won't much like a sealed enclosure. If you are absolutely commited to these speakers, you're probably better off just reinforcing the wall cavity, glueing the seams and stuffing it with insulation.

IMO, you would be better off with speakers with dedicated, "designed as part of the speaker", enclosures.

Craig

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post #21 of 35 Old 12-17-2008, 10:12 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by IslandStyle View Post

Sanity check:

I read this post on another forum about not needing enclosures for in-ceiling installs. Not trying to challenge anyone here. I just want to learn as I'm a newbie at this. (I tend to read alot).

A cabinet is a convenient way to hold speakers. An enclosure is composed of a top and bottom, two sides and two baffles - front and rear. You have a front baffle - the celing - which will keep the backwave from wrapping around the driver to interfere with the front wave. That's the purpose of a baffle in a sealed (acoustic suspension) enclosure.

Unless the baffle has air leaks or is very small, a baffle with the speakers mounted on it is all you need. No box. No insulation.

This would be termed an "infinitie baffle" if the driver's longest wavelength is shorter than the longest dimension of the baffle.

Listen to the speaker without insulation behind it. Insulation serves different purposes in a speaker enclosure. One purpose is to make the enclosure appear larger than it really is by attentuating the backwave of the driver. This is unnecessary in an infinite baffle. A layer of insualtion on top of a ceiling mounted speaker can provide some help if the backwave of the driver is firing into another hard surface such as the floor of the room above it. Otherwise, if the speaker is working into an attic space, a thin layer of insulation would simply keep the driver from collecting dirt and dust.

Lots of somewhat mis-stated info in that quote.

"A cabinet is a convenient way to hold speakers."

Ummm... well, yeah, but it is also a crucial part of the design. The cabinet can be "sealed" to isolate the backwave from the front wave; it can be "ported" to use the energy in the backwave to augment the output of the front wave, or it can be an "infinite baffle" where the baffle is large enough to isolate the backwave from the front wave. A good "baffle" is a hard non-porous material that does not leak sound, (like MDF.). Unfortunately, drywall is porous; it leaks sound *through* the drywall and so it does not make a good baffle. A good baffle also does not resonate from the energy of the speaker. Unfortunately drywall does have a resonant frequency in the audible range.

Insulation is only unnecessary in an infinite baffle if the backwave and frontwave are completely isolated from each other. With the porous nature of drywall, they are not. Insulation also serves the purpose of deadening the vibrations of the drywall. It reduces the humming, buzzing and resonating of the wall itself.

If you want a speaker that makes a lot of bass at one note, (the note of the resonant frequency of the wall), then use an unenclosed in-ceiling/in-wall speaker and don't insulate or seal the space. The wall will provide some extra output at that one frequency. Of course, all the bass will sound like that one note.

Craig

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post #22 of 35 Old 12-17-2008, 10:15 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by IslandStyle View Post

Craig John,

I appreciate your input and suggestions. I'm just not sure about the bump out on the Mirage units. I don't think I could get over them (I guess I'm type-A).

So, now I'm thinking of enclosure boxes. I am not handy so building an MDF enclosure box ain't happening. I read one of your posts on another thread recommending/suggesting Dynabox, which looks to be a very clever design. This thread was related to sound bleed from ceiling to floor. I have a one-story home where this is not a concern.

Anyhow, the Dynabox is rather expensive at 124/each, unfortunately. This basically doubles the cost of the speakers I wanted and blows my budget for 2 pairs.

Do you have any other ideas/suggestions/box vendors which would be more economical. I did a search last night on google and it didn't yield much in the way of pre-fab'd enclosures.

Some manufacturers make backboxes for their speakers. Note that these are not enclosures and they don't do much to improve sound quality. Their purpose is to reduce sound transmission to adjacent spaces.

Speakecraft, Klipsch and some other make these backboxes. Look under "Accessories" on their respective websites.

Craig

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post #23 of 35 Old 12-17-2008, 10:21 AM
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post #24 of 35 Old 12-18-2008, 07:04 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by craig john View Post


A good "baffle" is a hard non-porous material that does not leak sound, (like MDF.). Unfortunately, drywall is porous; it leaks sound *through* the drywall and so it does not make a good baffle.

Thanks for your replies Craig. The one above got me thinking. I'm trying to stay under $500 (less if possible) but achieve good sound (not audiophile) in my studio space. I don't think I can afford four speakers with a good range (down into the bass range) that also have matched enclosures in this budget.

However, I read what you said about MDF making a good front baffle. I also know it makes a good sound proofing material due to it's density.

What do you think about not building a back box, but instead using two pieces of MDF as follows:

1) A piece a couple feet long and sized to fit snuggly between floor joists. This piece would go up against the subfloor above, with a layer of green glue and screws attaching it. Goal, to eliminate some of the sound coming from the back of he speaker going to the floor above.

2) A piece of MDF the same thickness as the rest of the ceiling drywall (in my case, 5/8") which would be possibly 2' long and the width of the joist bay. This would be attached like drywall, and it's edges would be taped and mudded to surrounding drywall. The speaker would mount to a hole cut into the MDF so this would act like front baffle. The cavity above the speaker would get some insulation. There would be no sides, thus it wouldn't be a back box or enclosure. Rather, this would be an IB design but with MDF making a better front baffle for the speaker?

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post #25 of 35 Old 12-18-2008, 08:40 AM
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Originally Posted by bmcent1 View Post

Thanks for your replies Craig. The one above got me thinking. I'm trying to stay under $500 (less if possible) but achieve good sound (not audiophile) in my studio space. I don't think I can afford four speakers with a good range (down into the bass range) that also have matched enclosures in this budget.

However, I read what you said about MDF making a good front baffle. I also know it makes a good sound proofing material due to it's density.

What do you think about not building a back box, but instead using two pieces of MDF as follows:

1) A piece a couple feet long and sized to fit snuggly between floor joists. This piece would go up against the subfloor above, with a layer of green glue and screws attaching it. Goal, to eliminate some of the sound coming from the back of he speaker going to the floor above.

There will still be significant sound transmission through the floor joists to the subfloor above. Your idea may help a little, but not that much.

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Originally Posted by bmcent1 View Post

2) A piece of MDF the same thickness as the rest of the ceiling drywall (in my case, 5/8") which would be possibly 2' long and the width of the joist bay. This would be attached like drywall, and it's edges would be taped and mudded to surrounding drywall. The speaker would mount to a hole cut into the MDF so this would act like front baffle. The cavity above the speaker would get some insulation. There would be no sides, thus it wouldn't be a back box or enclosure. Rather, this would be an IB design but with MDF making a better front baffle for the speaker?

This would not be an "IB" design as the baffle would not be "infinite". A "baffle" is only effective to the frequency with a wavelength equal to it's length. (A speaker cone produces a positive wave from the front of the driver and a negative wave from the back of the driver. In "free air", the front and back waves would cancel each other and there would be no output. The baffle separates the two waves and keeps them from canceling. However, any frequencies with wavelengths longer than the baffle will cancel the front and back waves at the baffle edges.) A 2' baffle will be effective to separate the front and back waves down to about 115 Hz. Below that, the waves will cancel and there will be minimal response. If you're happy with 115 Hz extension, your idea has some merit. The bigger you make the baffle, the lower it will be effective. A 40 Hz wavelength is about 28'. A 20 Hz wavelength is about 56'. Here is a wavelength calculator:
http://www.mcsquared.com/wavelength.htm

If you sealed the edges of the baffle, you get a sealed enclosure, which would be a variation of an infinite baffle. However, the internal pressure in the sealed enclosure (caused by the driver's backwave), affects the excursion of the driver. The driver's design parameters should be optimized specifically for a sealed box if the intent is to use it in one. As I said before, ask NXG how those speakers will be impacted by a sealed enclosure, (or a less-than-"infinite") baffle.

Craig

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Perfection is not attainable, but if we chase perfection we can catch excellence."


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post #26 of 35 Old 12-18-2008, 09:02 AM - Thread Starter
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Man, this is depressing me. Maybe I should just forget music in there altogether! ;-)

Kidding, but I'm trying to balance the get it done, enjoy it, and stay in budget factors here with the "do it right" side of the equation.

I'll give NXG a call and see if they can offer any help. The speakers look quite nice for the price. As usual, I am boggled by the fact that something as simple (and time tested) as a speaker can come in a million different varieties with a million different variables making it complicated.

Check out my
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post #27 of 35 Old 12-18-2008, 12:48 PM
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I was on the NXG site last night and found some enclosed speaker options (ding ding ding). They don't have the same frequency range as their Pro series though.

BTW, the best prices for their speakers is found on Radioshack.com (go figure). Since they're infinite baffle, i'm going to slap them up there and hope for the best. I'm really only using it for 7.1 (not music). 37HZ out of 8" 2-way surrounds for 150/pair seems to be a steal.

http://www.radioshack.com/product/in...ductId=3240474

I also found a cool NXG 1 input-to-12 output audio distribution channel that looks interesting. Not sure how my Denon will like this.

http://www.radioshack.com/product/in...ductId=3040673
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post #28 of 35 Old 12-18-2008, 01:12 PM
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http://www.radioshack.com/product/in...&tab=techSpecs

How to read and understand a spec sheet:

(These are RS/NXG's spec's for the above linked speakers.)
Power range 5-120 watts
RMS (continuous) power 5 watts
Peak power 120 watts

These three spec's mean that the speaker can handle 5 watts of continuous power and 120 watts of peak power. They will distort with more power than this and can potentially be damaged by significantly more power than this. This is very low power handling.

Sensitivity 90 dB
This is the SPL output measured with a 1 watt input at 1 meter from the speaker. This is a reasonable spec, but with the low power handling, they won't get a whole lot louder than this. Remember that SPL drops 6 dB for every doubling of distance. At 4 meters, (a little over 13 feet), they'll be down to 78 dB.

Impedance 8 ohms
This is a "nominal" number and does not reflect the absolute impedance of the speaker. The impedance could drop to much lower than 8 ohms at a specific frequency, but without an impedance curve, this is unknown.

Frequency response 37-Hz-22kHz
37 Hz extension sounds decent. However, without a +/- 3dB spec, it's pretty meaningless. The 37 Hz "extension" only means that the speaker "moves" at 37 Hz. If it's down 15 or 20 dB, this is not "usable" extension. If these speakers are mounted in drywall, the fact that they don't have usable extension is probably a good thing. However, these spec's are still what we refer to on this forum as "Creative Spec's-Manship".

You can install them and hope for the best. If you go this route, my suggestion would be to get a subwoofer, even a cheap one, and cross these speakers over to the sub at about 150 or 200 Hz.

Craig

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post #29 of 35 Old 12-18-2008, 01:17 PM
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http://nxgtech.com/6820ce.htm

The spec's are not as good, but I would bet my mother-in-law that these are much better speakers.

Craig

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post #30 of 35 Old 12-18-2008, 01:49 PM
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I'm still learning and your post helped greatly.

They've changed websites so this has more up-to-date product. The URL you viewed is about to be decommissioned, per NXG.

Here's the enclosed speakers on their site. Max power is low.

I guess I should do a search for enclosed speakers as I'm not emotionally attached to NXG now that you've given me a "how-to-read" lesson (much appreciated).

http://www.nxgtechnology.com/nxg_basixseries.html

80 watts maximum power handling
Mica filled polylaminate cone woofer with rubber surround
1/2" zero-diffraction, pivoting, liquid cooled titanium anodized dome tweeter
ABS composite rear enclosure
Designed for use with today's digital audio and video systems
Integrated C-clamp mounting system
Powder coated metal grille
May be painted to match any d├ęcor
11" x 7" D; cut out: 9 5/8"
Frequency response: 55Hz-20kHz; 90dB sensitivity
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