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post #1 of 25 Old 12-12-2008, 09:22 PM - Thread Starter
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i have a 6.2 that i would like some people to check out and tell me what i could do to make this system better with out spending any money or very little money.

my system consists of:

components:
pioneer vsx-516
direct tv hd h21
xbox-360
sony playstation 2

speakers:
main-yamaha ns-6390
center-yamaha ns-ap4400c
rear speakers- ns-ap4400r
subwoffer 1 element electronics esw12
subwoffer 2 yamaha yst-sw215

my sound is good in spots of my room im only 19 and currently unemployed.
still living with mom and dad
LL
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LL
LL
LL

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post #2 of 25 Old 12-12-2008, 09:38 PM
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are you're components hooked into your receiver with digital coax or fiber optics for digital sound? That will make a huge difference if you are just using the old red and white RCA plugs.
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post #3 of 25 Old 12-12-2008, 09:41 PM - Thread Starter
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i have the xbox-360 hooked up to the only optical on the receaver and my direct tv coax and my computer hooked up coax the ps2 is just red white i realy dont youse it much so it does not matter

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post #4 of 25 Old 12-12-2008, 09:44 PM
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Good speaker wire and subwoofer cables?
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post #5 of 25 Old 12-12-2008, 09:45 PM - Thread Starter
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yeah i have monster cable and coax for the subs the bass ant the problem

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post #6 of 25 Old 12-12-2008, 09:49 PM
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its hard to tell what else you can do, doesn't look like you have much room to play with speaker placement. Better speakers always equal better sound.
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post #7 of 25 Old 12-12-2008, 09:51 PM - Thread Starter
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well the thing i like about the yamaha set up i have is the fact that they have 3way crossovers all the new ones only are 2 way

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post #8 of 25 Old 12-12-2008, 09:53 PM
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Good two way cross overs will be better than mediocre three way. You in such a small listening space it won't make that big of a difference.
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post #9 of 25 Old 12-12-2008, 09:55 PM
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one thing i would recommend if possible is to more the tv stand with the speakers out of the corner. If you could place it along the middle of one of the walls you could move the speakers to a better overall position. This may provide a more balanced sound field around the room. I would try if i could to place the speakers with the biggest radius that i could.

Is that sub in a closet?

if there was anyway to draw a picture of the layout of the room that may also help with suggestions.
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post #10 of 25 Old 12-12-2008, 09:56 PM - Thread Starter
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yes it is i pushes better in there lol

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post #11 of 25 Old 12-12-2008, 10:25 PM - Thread Starter
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hear is a rugh lay out through paint
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post #12 of 25 Old 12-12-2008, 10:45 PM
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i would swap the places of the fish tank and the tv/stereo. center it along that wall and push the bed all the way to the corner.

this may give u a more even sound from the front and It would allow u to spread out the center and the the fronts. i would work with speaker placement and see what i could get. any chance of wall mounting all the speakers?
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post #13 of 25 Old 12-12-2008, 10:54 PM - Thread Starter
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no wall mount and no moving fish tank lol the bed is also a no move cuz is it is all one big peace were the center rear is the head bord and every thing conects to that and there are end tables that are also conected it sucks the only wall i have is the front wall where the door is and that is it that is my wall to work with

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post #14 of 25 Old 12-13-2008, 07:25 AM
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After looking at your pics & diagram, and doing a search on your speakers/subs, I have a few suggestions for you. But first I have some questions.

Where do you sit when you are playing your system? Do you sit on the bed, against the headboard?

If I read your diagram correctly, the front wall shows the door on the left, a desk, a space, and your entertainment center on the right. Your pic of the ET center shows it pushed into the corner. What is the space between your desk and the ET center? Can you move your ET center toward your desk and get your speakers a little further apart?

Now, my suggestions...

The first thing I would do is eliminate the rear surround speaker on your headboard - especially if you lean against the headboard while watching movies or listening to music. In order for any rear surround speakers (6.1 or 7.1) to work properly, you need at least 3 ft of space behind your listening position. Six ft. or more is recommended. If that speaker is directly behind you (and not calibrated properly) it will screw up your sound. A properly calibrated 5.1 system will sound a lot better than a screwed up 6.1 or 7.1 system.

The 2nd thing I would do is disconnect your Yamaha sub. Integrating 2 subwoofers into any environment can be challenging for experienced HT people. You can't just put 2 subs in a room and expect them to play well together. Chances are pretty good that those subs are either canceling out some frequencies and exagerating others, so you're not getting as good of a bass response as you could.

I know you can't move the bed or the fish tank, but could you switch your desk and your ET center? Moving your ET center more to the middle of that wall would go a long way toward getting a more balanced surround sound experience. Ideally, you want to create an equal sided triangle between your main speakers and your listening position; meaning that you would have the same distance between your speakers and from your LP to your speakers.

It's tough to tell from your pics, but it looks like the top of your main speakers and the center channel are probably about even with the top of your bed, is this the case? If so, a lot of your sound is being absorbed by your bed and you are not getting anywhere near the sound quality your system is capable of. So here's what I would do. I know this may sound a little unconventional, but it's free to try! Ideally, you want to place your speakers so that the tweeters are at ear height when seated at your LP. In order to do that in your situation, your speakers look like they would have to be about 4 ft off the floor. So here's what I would try. Turn your spearkers upside down so the tweeters are on the bottom and the woofers are on top. Then put something under your speaker stands so that the tweeters are at ear height when your sitting in your LP. You may also want to consider putting your center channel on top of your TV and tilting it so it points at your LP.

If nothing else, you may want to consider moving your ET center and speakers when you use your system and put it back when you are done. You could put the left speaker on your desk, move the ET center closer to your desk (more toward the middle of your bed) and pull the right speaker out away from that corner.

Now for your surrounds. I would try to get them higher. Ideally, in a 5.1 system, the surrounds should be located directly to the sides of your LP, 3 ft. above your ears, and pointed straight ahead. The goal with surround sound is to create the illusion of being in the movie and correct speaker placement goes a long way toward accomplishing that.

My last recommendation is probably the most important and should be done reguardless of anything else you do. It is also the only one that may cost you money. If your system is not calibrated correctly, anything else you try is pointless. Therefore, you need to get a sound pressure meter and calibrate your speakers. If you can borrow one from someone that would be great, but you may have to purchase one. The most recommended one here can be purchased at Radio Shack and I believe it's less than $40. There are lost of threads that explain how to do it so I won't go into detail here.

You asked what you can do to improve the sound. Give these ideas a try and see if it improves the sound. If it doesn't, put it back the way it was.

Have fun!
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post #15 of 25 Old 12-15-2008, 06:55 PM - Thread Starter
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all that sounds good the bass is amassing in my room and the sound is ok i just dont get why every one wants me to move the front speakers away from the corner just dont get it i have always found that when the speakers are in the corners of the room it sounds a lot better then in the center of the room just pointing forward.

my listing pission is laying in the center of the bed and the rear center is at such a low setting that it realy only works when im watching TOP GUN AKA MY FAVORITE MOVIE!!!!

i realy dont mind the sound it is just when im on my computer lisining to music it dose not sound as good as i hoped

since i have posted this i have re done the speaker levels and have goten beter sound just still not as good when on the side of the room lissing to music im fine with it but still going to try to get some beter place ment of my left front the rear surround is not noticable

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post #16 of 25 Old 12-16-2008, 07:02 AM
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You have some very good valid questions and concerns. Hopefully I will be able to answer/explain them for you. The reason people told you to move your speakers out of the corner is because they will sound more accurate. Your ears are accustomed to the way you have your system set-up now, and there's nothing wrong with that; it is what it is. The advice we gave you is good advice that will, technically, improve the sound. However, it may - at first - not sound "better" to you. But once your ears get adjusted to the new set-up, if you were to put it all back and listen to it again, then you would understand why we gave you the advice we did.

The reason we told you to get your speakers out of the corner is that placing a speaker in a corner will mess with the sound. A speaker works by creating sound waves. The created sound waves radiate outward and will keep moving until they hit something. If the thing they hit is hard, the sound will reflect (think of an echo). But if the surface is soft or porous, it can absorb the sound (think of trying to yell into a pillow).

When you put a speaker in a corner, the sound reflects off the walls and back into one another. The result is that the sound will become messy. Think of a gym or a pool with all of those sound waves bouncing around. Putting a speaker in a corner produces the same effect. But, there are times when you can use that to your advantage!

Putting a subwoofer in a corner is often recommended because it can improve the bass performance. So why would you put a sub in a corner and not a speaker? Soundwaves! Or rather, the size of the waves. Speakers produce smaller soundwaves than subwoofers. The smaller waves reflect closer to the speaker in the corner and into one another more quickly. But subwoofers create larger waves that reflect further out into the room and won't crash into each other the way smaller waves will.

By pulling your speakers out of the corner, you allow the soundwaves to radiate out into the room and give the waves the opportunity to create the sound the way it was meant to be heard. If your speakers are properly placed, when you play a good recording, you will actually be able to hear the guitar a little to the left, the drums in the middle, and the bass more to the right. For movies, it means that during the dog fight scenes in Top Gun, the sound of the planes will fly across the room. You may think it sounds like it does now, but if your speakers are placed better, you will notice a huge difference.

The way your main speakers are placed now, the woofers are firing right into your mattress! Most of the sound they are producing is being absorbed by all of the soft material of your bedding. That's why I suggested turning them upside down. Try it and see. Just leave the stands where they are, turn your speakers over, play some music, and see what happens to the sound.

There are 2 reasons you are not impressed with the way your system sounds when you are on your computer. First, because your bed is absorbing most of the sound. Secondly, and most importantly, your sitting on the side of your speakers! Speakers have a zone called the sweet spot. It is the location in the room where they sound the best and it is usually located directly between the speakers and the same distance away as the speakers are apart. When you sit at your desk, you are definitely NOT in the sweet spot! So your system will not sound anywhere near as good as when you are on your bed. For your situation, if you want good sound while on the computer, headphones might be a better option.

The reason people told you to move your speakers out more into the room is that if your speakers are too close together, during a movie, the sound will not be able to move. If your speakers are farther apart, when the jets fly across the screen, the sound will be able to move across your room. With your speakers close together, the sound will basically come from one location. Your concern with moving them out and pointing them straight ahead is valid. If you move them out and keep them pointed straight ahead, they will probabally not sound all that good. The secret is to turn them, or toe them in, toward your listening position. Most speaker manufacturers recommend this. If you do a search for speaker placement, both on this forum and on the net, you will find that toeing them in is highly recommended.

We all gave you good advice, it's up to you to try it. Like I said, your ears are used to the way your speakers are set-up now. Moving them around may, at first, sound different and not better, but give it some time. Experiment. Toe your speakers in a little and listen, then toe them in a little more and listen again. Raise them up, turn them upside down, or even on their sides. Have fun! One thing I've found very helpful for aiming my speakers is one of those laser pointers. I just hold it on the inside edge of my speaker and I can see exactly where my speaker is pointed.

Just try some of the things we have suggested here and see if it improves anything.
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post #17 of 25 Old 12-16-2008, 06:50 PM - Thread Starter
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my front speakers are higher then the bed as well as the center channel im going to have to get some more speaker cable for my left front cuz im going to put it on the left side of my desk and have it pointing beter i am also going to try to move my tv and equipment over and leave the right front in the corner and see how that would sound

i realy am impressed with how meny people are out there to help people like me



i have another question on a dvd thing when i do the thx optimize through my xbox via the optical it dose not send any thing out to my sub when it goes through the tones

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post #18 of 25 Old 12-17-2008, 05:14 AM
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Are you still running both subwoofers? Seriously, really, really consider running just the large one. How do you have your sub (or subs) hook up?
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post #19 of 25 Old 12-17-2008, 07:20 PM - Thread Starter
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red neck ways man i have them ran with rg6 with a splitter and a coax adapters!!!!

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post #20 of 25 Old 12-18-2008, 04:53 AM
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Are you serious? And then you wonder why you don't have any bass signal when you run the THX optimizer! Are you serious about the title of your thread, "help my system perform better"? Do yourself a favor, get a subwoofer cable and run just the Element sub.
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post #21 of 25 Old 12-18-2008, 01:12 PM - Thread Starter
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eaven when i do a sub cable to the element sub i still dont get any signal to the sub i have had this problem when all i had was the yamaha sub witch i had a moster cable sub wire there so over priced when i can make my own for much less and it dose the same job

as aka over priced monster cable or any other sub cable i have so much low bass frequincys that it is so hard hiting i shake the walls in the bass ment and that is with the subs turned down to -5.0db

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post #22 of 25 Old 12-18-2008, 01:20 PM - Thread Starter
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not only that but i can have all the stuff hooked up buy the book and it still dose not give me sub out put on there the hole movie i have all around sound from hi/s to mid/s to low/s to super low/s

i just could never figure out why i dont get it on thx audio set up on any dvd that has it.

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post #23 of 25 Old 12-27-2008, 06:19 PM - Thread Starter
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well know i have a DVD player and will be repositioning my speakers with in the next week.
my sound should be better with what i am looking at doing with them it really should brighten up the room a lot will see going to have to get me some more speaker wire.

i am going to put the left front buy the door and the tv more center it should really make the sound better.

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post #24 of 25 Old 01-03-2009, 09:29 PM - Thread Starter
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well guys i moved my speakers and tv today and wow what a difference it made know i have great sound all over in my room when lissinning to music and movies.

i still have both subs but re tuned them to where i have the yamaha set at 150 for the cross over and the element sub set to 90 hrz the receaver cross over is at 150 so it makes the 8 hit higher notes and the 12 hit lower notes it shakes the room verry well this way.

the front right did not move and the left front went over by the door. my set up is still a 6.2 every thing works and sounds good soon enough ill get me a new Polk center channel and some new Polk book shelf speakers for the front and some small ones for the back as well.

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post #25 of 25 Old 02-12-2009, 07:43 PM - Thread Starter
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you now what is an amazing thing i allso tuned my sound system with a graphic eq on media player and you can play any song on my computer and it will blow your mind that i am playing two speakers that is how good of an ear i have i don't even have to have the subs on for it to sound amazing

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