Definitive Technology Mythos Series Thread - Page 101 - AVS Forum
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post #3001 of 5599 Old 06-23-2010, 11:00 PM
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Originally Posted by AlmondNut View Post

I've heard several people say that Denon receivers don't pair well with Mythos speakers? Any truth to this?

I currently have a 3.1 setup with two Mythos Ones, a Nine, and a SuperCube II, driven with a Pioneer 1020K. I'm looking for a little more in the receiver department. I like the new Denon 3311, but am wondering if it won't pair well with the Mythos Ones and Nine? Would I be better off with a Pioneer Elite?

There could be a long answer but I will try to shorten it. 400W vs 245W will give you a littel more headroom and just a touch more loudness. The ear normally needs a 3dB change before you notice the sound is louder. For every 3db change you need to double the power output. If running at 10W you need 20W to hear a change, at 20W you will hear a difference at 40W. So the 245W you would need 490W to hear a change in loudness. In order for the sound to be twice as loud, you have to increase to wattage output by 10 times. So moving from 10W to 100W will be twice as loud. After 100W you need 1000W for the same effect. So will an 90wpc receiver play louder then a 125wpc receiver? No, you have just a little more headroom before you go into clipping. If you need more info let me know. Just didn't want to be too detailed.

Front - Mythos ST, Center - Mythos 8 and 10
Front Height - Gems, Side Surround - Gem XL
Back Surround - Gem XL
Sub - Supercube Ref
There can never be enough music
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post #3002 of 5599 Old 06-23-2010, 11:11 PM
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[quote=kc8apf;18818402]I highly doubt that power is a problem with the Mythos line especially in a 3.1 setup. What makes you think it is?

As for pairing with Denons, I'm quite happy with my 4310CI and ST/10 3.0 setup.[/QUOTE

Unless you have a passive,unpowered sub, you need little power to run 3 rather efficient speakers. Maybe I donno, 3 watts or so... If you want the other stuff...go for it. And Audyssey MultEq Xt can really improve the performance of most any system by helping tame the way your exact speakers interact with your actual room (yes, it will adjust for that ottoman you have in the middle of the room...)...
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post #3003 of 5599 Old 06-24-2010, 01:48 AM
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Just went to audition a STS/M9 vs M1/M3/SCII 3.1 combo mainly for music and this is my personal takeaway: the STS setup is definitely stronger in the midrange/clarity for vocals as reviewed by some here but somehow I find the bass from M1 setup more pleasing to my ears. As for the center, i couldnt really pick up real significant difference between the 3 and 9. Is it just me or is it because the system I auditioned have not really been tuned properly yet?

Was initially going for the STS until this experience set me thinking again since I can channel my savings from M1 combo into some other equipment. Any one here share a similar view?
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post #3004 of 5599 Old 06-24-2010, 06:33 AM
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Thanks for the responses!
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post #3005 of 5599 Old 06-24-2010, 07:31 AM
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Thanks for the replies about power. I appreciate it.

I'm going to have these speakers for a while, so I guess my question still stands about pairing Denon AVRs with the Mythos line. With modern room correction technologies like Audyssey, do different AVRs really sound different? Do certain brands really sound "warmer" than others? If I have to limit myself to Pioneer AVRs with my Mythos setup I will, but I wouldn't want to limit myself, especially because I like Audyssey's features.
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post #3006 of 5599 Old 06-24-2010, 08:15 AM
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For those looking at buying the STS soon, it looks like Crutchfield has a few in their scratch and dent store.
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post #3007 of 5599 Old 06-24-2010, 11:34 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AlmondNut View Post

Thanks for the replies about power. I appreciate it.

I'm going to have these speakers for a while, so I guess my question still stands about pairing Denon AVRs with the Mythos line. With modern room correction technologies like Audyssey, do different AVRs really sound different? Do certain brands really sound "warmer" than others? If I have to limit myself to Pioneer AVRs with my Mythos setup I will, but I wouldn't want to limit myself, especially because I like Audyssey's features.

Pioneer has it's own in house room correction solution similar to Audyssey. Which one is better would I suppose be a matter of debate/opinion, but would would still be able to get similar technology in a Pio receiver.
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post #3008 of 5599 Old 06-24-2010, 09:26 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AlmondNut View Post

Thanks for the replies about power. I appreciate it.

I'm going to have these speakers for a while, so I guess my question still stands about pairing Denon AVRs with the Mythos line. With modern room correction technologies like Audyssey, do different AVRs really sound different? Do certain brands really sound "warmer" than others? If I have to limit myself to Pioneer AVRs with my Mythos setup I will, but I wouldn't want to limit myself, especially because I like Audyssey's features.

I do not see any foreseen problems using the Denon AVR with the Mythos.

My setup is probably close to what you plan to do. M1's front, M8 Center (was a M3), Gems surround sides and surrounds rear, and a Supercube Reference.

http://community.webshots.com/user/maddmaster

Front - Mythos ST, Center - Mythos 8 and 10
Front Height - Gems, Side Surround - Gem XL
Back Surround - Gem XL
Sub - Supercube Ref
There can never be enough music
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post #3009 of 5599 Old 06-25-2010, 06:25 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AlmondNut View Post

Thanks for the replies about power. I appreciate it.

I'm going to have these speakers for a while, so I guess my question still stands about pairing Denon AVRs with the Mythos line. With modern room correction technologies like Audyssey, do different AVRs really sound different? Do certain brands really sound "warmer" than others? If I have to limit myself to Pioneer AVRs with my Mythos setup I will, but I wouldn't want to limit myself, especially because I like Audyssey's features.

In my experience, yes--the various brands do tend to have particular characteristics because of the way they are tuned by their engineers to emphasize certain aspects of the aural spectrum. The best way to prove this to yourself is to do some A/B testing at a brick and mortar store keeping all other things constant (including power ratings, etc). I personally think the differences probably aren't as pronounced as I'd like to believe--that is, I'm pretty sure I would have been just happy with a mid high end receiver from Pioneer, Integra, Denon, etc., as they all make strong receivers (and all have their equally ardent acolytes ). Therefore, you need not "limit" yourself to any one brand--if the Denon you are considering meets your taste and budget, then go for it, I say!

However, please keep in mind, that (as the folks on this board have said often), it's your room characteristics that are going to play the biggest role in what your system is going to sound like more than just about anything else, even with the magic of Audyssey and similar software.
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post #3010 of 5599 Old 06-25-2010, 11:53 PM
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After another of audition, finally settled for the STS and M9 combo as I am more into music listening and STS clearly offers superiority in this aspect. Just want to express my appreciation to fellow owners for their enlightenment and valued opinion. Cant wait for the delivery in 1-2 weeks.
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post #3011 of 5599 Old 06-26-2010, 07:46 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by alfc View Post

After another of audition, finally settled for the STS and M9 combo as I am more into music listening and STS clearly offers superiority in this aspect. Just want to express my appreciation to fellow owners for their enlightenment and valued opinion. Cant wait for the delivery in 1-2 weeks.

Congratulations! Please consider posting some pics when you get things set up

Enjoy your system!
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post #3012 of 5599 Old 06-26-2010, 02:36 PM
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Real newbie here with my first system. I just purchased a Pioneer 1020 receiver, Mythos Three Center, Mythos Gems for my fronts and a Subercube III for my sub. I will purchase my rears another time. I know how to connect all my equipment, but I don't know anything about crossovers. After I run the MCACC, should my speakers be set to Large or Small and how do I set crossovers? Are crossovers set from the receiver or on the sub itself (or both) and what do I set them to? Many thanks.
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post #3013 of 5599 Old 06-26-2010, 06:49 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NewbieRob View Post

Real newbie here with my first system. I just purchased a Pioneer 1020 receiver, Mythos Three Center, Mythos Gems for my fronts and a Subercube III for my sub. I will purchase my rears another time. I know how to connect all my equipment, but I don't know anything about crossovers. After I run the MCACC, should my speakers be set to Large or Small and how do I set crossovers? Are crossovers set from the receiver or on the sub itself (or both) and what do I set them to? Many thanks.

After you run MCACC it will recommend or set your crossovers for you (I use audyssey, not sure how much different Pio's system is, but I'm sure its similar). It will likely want your fronts around 90-120 and center at 70-100 I would guess. You will set your fronts as "small" to take advantage of your AVR's bass management system. By setting your fronts at "90hz" for example, this will tell your receiver to send sounds below 90 hz to your subwoofer. You will be able to adjust the crossover settings in your AVR's setup settings, and can adjust/change them anytime you want to. MCACC will likely set or recommend a LPF for LFE as well. Don't be afraid to override what it says if you think other settings sound better, but you probably should try what MCACC recommends first. If you haven't used MCACC, pay close attention to the instructions as they are important for getting accurate measurements. Remember that sound above 80hz is directional, and sound below 80hz is not, so if you allow your subwoofer to handle up to 100 or 120 hz (that the mains maybe can't do as the gems don't have much bass extention) you may be able to hear the sounds that should be coming from the front come from the rear (or where ever you placed your sub...)..

Folks say the Mythos line sounds great with Pio receivers, so take accurate measurements and start enjoying the magic!
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post #3014 of 5599 Old 06-26-2010, 08:33 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NewbieRob View Post

Real newbie here with my first system. I just purchased a Pioneer 1020 receiver, Mythos Three Center, Mythos Gems for my fronts and a Subercube III for my sub. I will purchase my rears another time. I know how to connect all my equipment, but I don't know anything about crossovers. After I run the MCACC, should my speakers be set to Large or Small and how do I set crossovers? Are crossovers set from the receiver or on the sub itself (or both) and what do I set them to? Many thanks.

For the most part, I agree with kmfellows.

However, before running MCACC I would first find the best viewing/listening position for your room (search the 9G Pio Elite thread for "viewing distance"--I have a post in there listing all kinds of distance viewing calculators--for instance, for a 60 inch Kuro, the distance comes out to be about 7.5 feet). Try to make sure you are NOT sitting at a multiple of 1/2 (i.e. 1/4; 3/4; 1/8, etc.) for ANY dimension of the room, and don't sit along the back wall. For example, sitting at the exact middle of the room is almost always a suboptimal spot to be, whereas the 1/3 or 2/3 position is often pretty good.

One you find the primary listening position, find the best placement for your sub by putting the sub at your primary listening position, and going into your Pio's setup menu and using the sub test tone. Crawl around with your ears at subwoofer height near the boundaries of your room, until you find the spot where the bass sounds best to you (tight, full, but not bloated). That's most probably the best spot for your sub. Put the sub there, and set your phase to 0 and the gain to about a quarter to half way up (depending on your room size).

Then, place your fronts on either side of your display and toe them in so their paths would cross just in front of your listening position. Place your center and aim it with a laser pointer to your seated head height at your listening position.

Make sure sub and LFE is on in your setup menu and check your connections again (make sure you have the correct polarities in your speaker wires).

Now, you are ready to run MCACC (use a tripod to get the mic where your head would be at the primary listening position).

Once you run MCACC, check to make sure that it has selected "small" for your speakers.

I personally wouldn't worry a whole lot about the crossovers for your purposes--sometimes we get hung up on trying to hit a real low crossover point (or the THX standard), that we compromise the set up exactly where most of the sound signal is. While I agree with what kmfellows has stated, if your crossovers end up around 100MHz with MCACC, it's generally not a huge deal--just listen to it yourself and see if you like it. If you don't, change the crossovers in small increments--don't worry if you get lost, just run MCACC again if you forget the original settings.

MCACC will get everything set up well enough until you have a chance to read up a bit (I recommend http://www.audioholics.com/tweaks/ca...-up-basics-101 to start) Once you have the basic knowledge and acquire some tools, you can tweak to your heart's desire.

Hope this helps a little.
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post #3015 of 5599 Old 06-26-2010, 09:46 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NewbieRob View Post

Real newbie here with my first system. I just purchased a Pioneer 1020 receiver, Mythos Three Center, Mythos Gems for my fronts and a Subercube III for my sub. I will purchase my rears another time. I know how to connect all my equipment, but I don't know anything about crossovers. After I run the MCACC, should my speakers be set to Large or Small and how do I set crossovers? Are crossovers set from the receiver or on the sub itself (or both) and what do I set them to? Many thanks.

...So I clicked on the link for Audioholics to check it out... Laughed out loud when the advice was "avoid those cube speakers at all costs"...and if you have them, and can't return them....(photo of un named "cube" speaker shown)...

He's right of course, you have to place your speakers prior to running MCACC. If you move them, change the toe in, even change your sofa, you'd be advised to run it again. I also checked on the Pioneer 1020, looks like a fine receiver, think I read it has Anchor Bay inside (like my Oppo BDP-83) for upconverting video, very impressive...
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post #3016 of 5599 Old 06-26-2010, 10:26 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by kmfellows View Post

...So I clicked on the link for Audioholics to check it out... Laughed out loud when the advice was "avoid those cube speakers at all costs"...and if you have them, and can't return them....(photo of un named "cube" speaker shown)...

That is pretty funny -- I had forgotten about that bit of advice.

Actually, I think the info at the links in that article are even more useful than the main article. The Dolby Digital and THX sites are also pretty helpful in terms of speaker positioning.
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post #3017 of 5599 Old 06-27-2010, 01:01 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NewbieRob View Post

After I run the MCACC, should my speakers be set to Large or Small and how do I set crossovers?

Small. The AVR will then reroute deep bass to the sub, which can handle the lower frequencies.

Quote:
Are crossovers set from the receiver or on the sub itself (or both) and what do I set them to?

Since you are doing bass management in the receiver, set the crossovers in the receiver, not the sub. You want the sub to play whatever the AVR sends it. If you can't disengage the sub's low pass filter, then set it as high as possible.

MCACC will set the crossovers for you. But, you can test them yourself by getting a calibration disc, such as Avia, with bass sweeps. The disc will play tones for each speaker, starting with high frequencies and moving down to the lower ones. If the crossover is set correctly, you should hear the bass move smoothly from the speaker to the sub with no loss of volume anywhere along the way. But, if the crossover is too low, you'll hear a hole in the bass. Bass drops off when the sweeps gets down to the frequencies that the speaker can't handle and picks back up at the crossover point when the AVR starts rerouting audio to the sub.

I have Mythos 3s and 4s in the front and they are fine with an 80Hz crossover. But, the bass sweeps reveal a hole between 100Hz and 80Hz with my surrounds.
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post #3018 of 5599 Old 06-27-2010, 07:32 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by alfc View Post

Just went to audition a STS/M9 vs M1/M3/SCII 3.1 combo mainly for music and this is my personal takeaway: the STS setup is definitely stronger in the midrange/clarity for vocals as reviewed by some here but somehow I find the bass from M1 setup more pleasing to my ears. As for the center, i couldnt really pick up real significant difference between the 3 and 9. Is it just me or is it because the system I auditioned have not really been tuned properly yet?

Was initially going for the STS until this experience set me thinking again since I can channel my savings from M1 combo into some other equipment. Any one here share a similar view?

We have had both models on our floor and I have demo'd them many times. The 1's are very nice all by themselves. I really was taken with their overall performance. Detail and mid range in my opinion is their strong point. The bass hits nicely but doesn't dig that deep.

The STS in my opinion is a far superior speaker in every way. Clairty jumps out at you right from the start. Top end down to the lowest notes come out beautiful and full.
If you experienced to much bass on the STS then someone didn't have them calibrated. I can get them to sound like a passive speaker. The sub section blends perfectly with the rest of the speaker once it's tuned to the room. I really like the STS.

If you like the 1's then I suggest using the 8 as a center over the 3. I think it has a fuller sound and matches perfectly with the 1's. I also like the Supercube II with them as when properly calibrated( I will always bring this point up) sound like they are one.

I wish the 1's didn't have the glass bottom and had the Granted bottom like the ST or STS.
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post #3019 of 5599 Old 06-28-2010, 05:08 PM
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DT recently announced the upcoming release of new BP speakers to replace their current 7000 BP supertower line... They look like a cross between the current 7000 series BP supertowers and the Mythos supertowers. What is surprising is the most expensive one is supposed to retail for the price of a Mythos STS, going down to $599 for the smallest one. All are BP and all have built in powered subs like the current 7000 line. WAF seems high, if they remain DT's flagship line with such a high WAF, they will likely cannibalize Mythos sales I would guess....main difference BP vs DR?....kf
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post #3020 of 5599 Old 06-28-2010, 06:44 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kmfellows View Post

DT recently announced the upcoming release of new BP speakers to replace their current 7000 BP supertower line... They look like a cross between the current 7000 series BP supertowers and the Mythos supertowers. What is surprising is the most expensive one is supposed to retail for the price of a Mythos STS, going down to $599 for the smallest one. All are BP and all have built in powered subs like the current 7000 line. WAF seems high, if they remain DT's flagship line with such a high WAF, they will likely cannibalize Mythos sales I would guess....main difference BP vs DR?....kf

Do you have a link that shows the speakers?

I was thinking of using Bipolars in the bedroom since it's not open like my living room where I've got some Mythos speakers.
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post #3021 of 5599 Old 06-28-2010, 08:10 PM
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Do you have a link that shows the speakers?

I was thinking of using Bipolars in the bedroom since it's not open like my living room where I've got some Mythos speakers.



A few places have the press release available, including TPV

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post #3022 of 5599 Old 06-28-2010, 08:29 PM
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At what speaker in the mythos line do you think has better sound quality than the SM 450 for ht fronts?

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post #3023 of 5599 Old 06-30-2010, 08:31 AM - Thread Starter
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These look cool--albeit their depth appears quite a bit larger than the Mythos series.
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post #3024 of 5599 Old 06-30-2010, 09:57 AM
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If I may seek any advise from supercube owners: I just noticed that my month old SCII has little rattle inside when I turn the gain knob towards 12 o'clock and beyond. When I pressed the top hard, the rattle seem to go away. Hence, I suspect that the rattle could be due to a loose fitting somewhere. Wanted to do some DIY rectification where possible. Can anyone share how can I remove the outer covering of the cube? Is it simply removing the top cover and loosen the net covering? Thanks.
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post #3025 of 5599 Old 06-30-2010, 10:42 AM
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SC-37 and 35 are up on Pioneer's site if anyone is interested.
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post #3026 of 5599 Old 06-30-2010, 11:42 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by alfc View Post

If I may seek any advise from supercube owners: I just noticed that my month old SCII has little rattle inside when I turn the gain knob towards 12 o'clock and beyond. When I pressed the top hard, the rattle seem to go away. Hence, I suspect that the rattle could be due to a loose fitting somewhere. Wanted to do some DIY rectification where possible. Can anyone share how can I remove the outer covering of the cube? Is it simply removing the top cover and loosen the net covering? Thanks.

It sounds like the rattle is the top itself. Have you tried leaving the top off? It just sits on 4 plastic stubs. If that turns out to be the problem it's an easy fix. I that the SC Ref and don't have that problem.

Front - Mythos ST, Center - Mythos 8 and 10
Front Height - Gems, Side Surround - Gem XL
Back Surround - Gem XL
Sub - Supercube Ref
There can never be enough music
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post #3027 of 5599 Old 07-01-2010, 02:34 AM
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Originally Posted by Maddmaster View Post

It sounds like the rattle is the top itself. Have you tried leaving the top off? It just sits on 4 plastic stubs. If that turns out to be the problem it's an easy fix. I that the SC Ref and don't have that problem.


Thanks for your response. I did remove the top cover and the rattle is still observed. It is only when I applied some pressure from the top that the rattle goes away. I wanted to remove the black grill sock but not too sure how to do it and would not want to risktearing/damaging anything without first checking from anyone if there is a proper way to do it.
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post #3028 of 5599 Old 07-01-2010, 09:58 AM
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Originally Posted by GregHolt12 View Post

At what speaker in the mythos line do you think has better sound quality than the SM 450 for ht fronts?

I'm not really sure. I think your best bet is to call Def Tech and ask for Chet. He'll give you the best answer.
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post #3029 of 5599 Old 07-02-2010, 07:08 PM
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I was reading this thread (Shag's post): http://archive2.avsforum.com/avs-vb/...d.php?t=556674. He mentions that his friend preferred the sound of the Mythos with blue tack in the screw holes to dampen any vibrations caused by the screws resonating with the aluminum housing. Is this really a sane thing to do, and will I be able to get it out later? Would rubber washers work as well? I was planning on tightening the screws down anyways, so it wouldn't be much of a hassle.

Also, this same post referenced using sound dampening dots on the Mythos One's. Worth it? Anyone have experience with light mods like these?

edit: This is for a good friend. He's going to be using these in place of fairly warm speakers. I would like to make sure that upon first hearing them he isn't put off by a comparative harshness. The Mythos are much nicer than what he owns now, but I want to make sure he feels that way as well.
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post #3030 of 5599 Old 07-02-2010, 10:45 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pakotlar View Post

I was reading this thread (Shag's post): http://archive2.avsforum.com/avs-vb/...d.php?t=556674. He mentions that his friend preferred the sound of the Mythos with blue tack in the screw holes to dampen any vibrations caused by the screws resonating with the aluminum housing. Is this really a sane thing to do, and will I be able to get it out later? Would rubber washers work as well? I was planning on tightening the screws down anyways, so it wouldn't be much of a hassle.

Also, this same post referenced using sound dampening dots on the Mythos One's. Worth it? Anyone have experience with light mods like these?

edit: This is for a good friend. He's going to be using these in place of fairly warm speakers. I would like to make sure that upon first hearing them he isn't put off by a comparative harshness. The Mythos are much nicer than what he owns now, but I want to make sure he feels that way as well.

I have not experienced that problem, but mine are sitting on carpet.

Front - Mythos ST, Center - Mythos 8 and 10
Front Height - Gems, Side Surround - Gem XL
Back Surround - Gem XL
Sub - Supercube Ref
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