Definitive Technology Mythos Series Thread - Page 146 - AVS Forum
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post #4351 of 5599 Old 01-11-2012, 05:17 PM
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Originally Posted by FantaXP7 View Post

I have an Emotiva XPA-5. I do like the improvement in sound. This is my first amp so it is hard for me to compare. I will say though I didn't full realize how much distortion I had until adding the amp, it was like it cleaned everything up especially at higher volumes.

It also helped me realize just how much my room is effecting my sound. I was hoping that it would clear some other issues out, but again having my setup in my basement presents some challenges.

Thanks. You experienced exactly the point I have tried to make several times.

If I remember some of your previous post you have ST's in the front and also a subwoofer. If you it seems you are loosing bass I have experienced that before. I had to move my sub away from the fronts (STS). I actually have a sofa separating the Sub from the front of the room. The Bass smoothed out and was deep again as it should be.

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post #4352 of 5599 Old 01-11-2012, 05:44 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FantaXP7 View Post

I have an Emotiva XPA-5. I do like the improvement in sound. This is my first amp so it is hard for me to compare. I will say though I didn't full realize how much distortion I had until adding the amp, it was like it cleaned everything up especially at higher volumes.

It also helped me realize just how much my room is effecting my sound. I was hoping that it would clear some other issues out, but again having my setup in my basement presents some challenges.

I tested out separates and decided I'd reached that point of diminishing returns. I was able to A/B a mid level AVR (Onkyo 707) with powerful separate amps (one amp per channel, stereo only-so 2 amps...)and could really not hear a difference worth paying for. My speakers are much easier to drive than what I was using in the demo (Thiels for demo, STSs for me)and my AVR is more capable (THX certified Ultra2, Onkyo 3008), so I would expect less of an improvement going to separates in my case than the demo. Others (Maddmaster, e.g.) will disagree, but my room isn't very big so I'm not very power hungry and that can make a difference. Also, what sounds like a tiny difference to me, may be a "huge" difference to someone else, and we're both right...Sorta like two people looking at pq on a TV, a small difference in black levels or contrast to one person may be a huge difference to someone else, well worth selling the old TV/projector to upgrade to the far superior unit..heck, we've all known people that can't see much difference between regular sd DVD and Blu-ray..look about the same to them, huge difference to us though, right?... Only opinion that counts is yours.
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post #4353 of 5599 Old 01-11-2012, 06:25 PM
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Originally Posted by kmfellows View Post

I tested out separates and decided I'd reached that point of diminishing returns. I was able to A/B a mid level AVR (Onkyo 707) with powerful separate amps (one amp per channel, stereo only-so 2 amps...)and could really not hear a difference worth paying for. My speakers are much easier to drive than what I was using in the demo (Thiels for demo, STSs for me)and my AVR is more capable (THX certified Ultra2, Onkyo 3008), so I would expect less of an improvement going to separates in my case than the demo. Others (Maddmaster, e.g.) will disagree, but my room isn't very big so I'm not very power hungry and that can make a difference. Also, what sounds like a tiny difference to me, may be a "huge" difference to someone else, and we're both right...Sorta like two people looking at pq on a TV, a small difference in black levels or contrast to one person may be a huge difference to someone else, well worth selling the old TV/projector to upgrade to the far superior unit..heck, we've all known people that can't see much difference between regular sd DVD and Blu-ray..look about the same to them, huge difference to us though, right?... Only opinion that counts is yours.

Maddmaster is absolutely right when he points out that there are performance and practical advantages to having separates. Like you said, I think the size of the room and the speaker load play a big part in determining whether an AVR or separate amps is the better solution. Speakers with less stable impedance and can dip down to 1 or 2 ohms can place a heavy draw on an amp. Playing at louder volumes is a factor too - and you can't use the volume display as a guide. One room may be more "absorbant" than another and may need much higher SPL to sound "normal" when compared to a more reflective room.

Then there's the size of the room (as already mentioned) and the desired future upgradability as Maddmaster has pointed out. Processors and features can become outdated in just 2 or 3 years, but that 30 year-old monoblock is probably still a powerhouse and going strong. In the long run, it's probably a better investment to get separates, but let's not forget WAF - AVR's have a lot of appeal because they do everything in a small footprint.

So the bottom line, decide based on your future desire to upgrade features, your speakers, your room, your wife, your listening habits, and whatever else you think is important.

I know I will eventually go back to separates, but for now I can find nothing to complain about with my and Pioneer Elite AVR and Mythos ST's. They sound better than anything I've ever had in my home (and I've had more than my fair share of gear) over the years.
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post #4354 of 5599 Old 01-11-2012, 06:30 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kmfellows View Post

I tested out separates and decided I'd reached that point of diminishing returns. I was able to A/B a mid level AVR (Onkyo 707) with powerful separate amps (one amp per channel, stereo only-so 2 amps...)and could really not hear a difference worth paying for. My speakers are much easier to drive than what I was using in the demo (Thiels for demo, STSs for me)and my AVR is more capable (THX certified Ultra2, Onkyo 3008), so I would expect less of an improvement going to separates in my case than the demo. Others (Maddmaster, e.g.) will disagree, but my room isn't very big so I'm not very power hungry and that can make a difference. Also, what sounds like a tiny difference to me, may be a "huge" difference to someone else, and we're both right...Sorta like two people looking at pq on a TV, a small difference in black levels or contrast to one person may be a huge difference to someone else, well worth selling the old TV/projector to upgrade to the far superior unit..heck, we've all known people that can't see much difference between regular sd DVD and Blu-ray..look about the same to them, huge difference to us though, right?... Only opinion that counts is yours.

kmfellows, you said a mouthful and right on point. I agree, it is the opinion of the person buying that matters.

I went from Mythos One's to STS. Where I heard the biggest difference with separate power amps was with the One's. Until I powered them with a separate power amp I never knew they could output any kind of usable bass. It was a huge difference. Too late for me to do a comparison using the STS since there are no receivers here any longer. Receivers are convenient and take far less space than separates. They have improved drastically over the years. However, working in the field of electronics all my life knowing how power supplies are shared in a receivers, among other factors, I will stay with separates (that is as long as my pockets can afford the cost). When the technology changes are worth upgrading I just replace my PreAmp/Processor and I am current again.

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post #4355 of 5599 Old 01-11-2012, 07:14 PM
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I will be purchasing the Mythos 5 speaker system(great deal on floor model) and was wondering what AV receiver would complement these speakers. I was interested in the Onkyo 709 or 809 as a possibility. Thanks!
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post #4356 of 5599 Old 01-11-2012, 08:31 PM
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Originally Posted by jackte50 View Post

I will be purchasing the Mythos 5 speaker system(great deal on floor model) and was wondering what AV receiver would complement these speakers. I was interested in the Onkyo 709 or 809 as a possibility. Thanks!

Either will work well with the Mythos 5's. They are not real demanding when it comes to power requirements and are easy to drive. Just make sure whatever you buy has the features you want. Before you make your Onkyo purchase you may want to check this thread: http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...339186&page=42

I have not heard of any problems with the x09 or xx09 series yet but all the xx08 and x08 series had and are still experiencing problems. I have a PR-SC5508 and it was swapped for a replacement. So far the replacement is still working flawlessly (original was purchased in April 2011. it failed after 62 days. the new one arrived July 2011). Do your research. Hopefully all the problems have been resolved for the new line you are looking at.

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post #4357 of 5599 Old 01-12-2012, 06:27 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Maddmaster View Post

Thanks. You experienced exactly the point I have tried to make several times.

If I remember some of your previous post you have ST's in the front and also a subwoofer. If you it seems you are loosing bass I have experienced that before. I had to move my sub away from the fronts (STS). I actually have a sofa separating the Sub from the front of the room. The Bass smoothed out and was deep again as it should be.

Actually I don't have a sub yet to compliment the STS's. But my room right now is in a basement. Some walls have dry wall on top of concrete and some walls are concrete, the floor is concrete and I only have an area rug. It is also an odd shape, the main listening area is rectangular about 12x25 and then at each end it opens up to a set of stairs and another door. Would be much better to draw out so you could visualize...

Anyways, I do appreciate the difference the XPA-5 makes, but I think if someone sat down one week and listened to my system without the amp and then next week came by and listened they would think little if anything had changed.

I am happy going forward, maybe shopping the pre-amp market we be easier knowing I have a quality amp already.
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post #4358 of 5599 Old 01-12-2012, 06:29 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jackte50 View Post

I will be purchasing the Mythos 5 speaker system(great deal on floor model) and was wondering what AV receiver would complement these speakers. I was interested in the Onkyo 709 or 809 as a possibility. Thanks!

I think I had read something of an issue with the 709... I don't know specifics. I'd search around.

My 809 has been great so far. There were some odd quirks when I first got it. Once you figure things out it is good. Check out the thread here for the 809, people post in it often.
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post #4359 of 5599 Old 01-12-2012, 01:43 PM
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I am considering buying mythos 8 but it doesn't look there is a option to table mount them (similar to mythos 2 or 6). The way my room layout is, I can't wall mount them. I wanted to table mount them next to the TV on fireplace.

Is there any option on mythos 8, 9 or 10 to table mount them?
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post #4360 of 5599 Old 01-12-2012, 05:54 PM
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Originally Posted by bala76 View Post

I am considering buying mythos 8 but it doesn't look there is a option to table mount them (similar to mythos 2 or 6). The way my room layout is, I can't wall mount them. I wanted to table mount them next to the TV on fireplace.

Is there any option on mythos 8, 9 or 10 to table mount them?

You mean just sit them down on a table?

The wall bracket piece has a little peg-like piece that makes it stand up when placed on a flat surface.

At least that's what came with my 10.
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post #4361 of 5599 Old 01-12-2012, 06:02 PM
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Originally Posted by FantaXP7 View Post

You mean just sit them down on a table?

The wall bracket piece has a little peg-like piece that makes it stand up when placed on a flat surface.

At least that's what came with my 10.

Yeah..If I see the mythos 2 or 6 or the xtr-50 series, they are shipped with a tempered glass stand that allows it to kept as a table top (basically not pinned to the wall).

Are the mythos 8, 9 or 10 (flat at the bottom). How can I make them vertically stand without actually mounting to the wall? Is it possible to do so?
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post #4362 of 5599 Old 01-12-2012, 08:17 PM
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I recently purchased a pair of Mythos Twos and a Three for center.

Maybe this is common knowledge or I don't know how to find the information (after searching the manual and google), but I have not come across an answer for this question:

Are my banana plugs fitting correctly on the speakers, even though they do not "go in all the way"?

The plugs are 3/4 of an inch long from collar to tip. I have a Yamaha receiver and the plugs go in right to the collar on the output posts there. But on all the speakers, it looks like they bottom out (with the binding post open/unscrewed, I can see the tip hitting the surface inside), with maybe a quarter inch not covered between the post and the collar. I tried pressing fairly hard to push them in, but did not want to do so at the expense of damaging the 5-way binding posts.

There is plenty of connection, as the speakers are getting signal. But the plugs (with their "bump") don't give a "satisfying" click when inserting to the speakers like the Yamaha does, and the plug feels "wobbly" / less secure.

My intuition says I am missing something here. Any hints / ideas?
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post #4363 of 5599 Old 01-12-2012, 08:24 PM
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Originally Posted by Transplanted99 View Post

I recently purchased a pair of Mythos Twos and a Three for center.

Maybe this is common knowledge or I don't know how to find the information (after searching the manual and google), but I have not come across an answer for this question:

Are my banana plugs fitting correctly on the speakers, even though they do not "go in all the way"?

The plugs are 3/4 of an inch long from collar to tip. I have a Yamaha receiver and the plugs go in right to the collar on the output posts there. But on all the speakers, it looks like they bottom out (with the binding post open/unscrewed, I can see the tip hitting the surface inside), with maybe a quarter inch not covered between the post and the collar. I tried pressing fairly hard to push them in, but did not want to do so at the expense of damaging the 5-way binding posts.

There is plenty of connection, as the speakers are getting signal. But the plugs (with their "bump") don't give a "satisfying" click when inserting to the speakers like the Yamaha does, and the plug feels "wobbly" / less secure.

My intuition says I am missing something here. Any hints / ideas?

Banana plugs don't "click." They are bowed out in the middle to grip the inner walls of the terminals. As long as they feel like they're making good contact and don't fall out, they are fitting as they should.
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post #4364 of 5599 Old 01-13-2012, 12:57 AM
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Originally Posted by bala76 View Post

Yeah..If I see the mythos 2 or 6 or the xtr-50 series, they are shipped with a tempered glass stand that allows it to kept as a table top (basically not pinned to the wall).

Are the mythos 8, 9 or 10 (flat at the bottom). How can I make them vertically stand without actually mounting to the wall? Is it possible to do so?

I am not sure about the 9, but the 8 and 10 are not flat on either end. They have about a 25 to 35 degree angle on both ends. They can be wall mounted or sit long ways on a table top, but they will not stand up like towers.

Front - Mythos ST, Center - Mythos 8 and 10
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post #4365 of 5599 Old 01-13-2012, 01:00 AM
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Originally Posted by palmfish View Post

Banana plugs don't "click." They are bowed out in the middle to grip the inner walls of the terminals. As long as they feel like they're making good contact and don't fall out, they are fitting as they should.

That's how they fit. I really don't like it either but I have never had one fall out. I will probably put shrink tubing on one of the plugs.

Front - Mythos ST, Center - Mythos 8 and 10
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post #4366 of 5599 Old 01-13-2012, 03:47 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bala76 View Post

Are the mythos 8, 9 or 10 (flat at the bottom). How can I make them vertically stand without actually mounting to the wall? Is it possible to do so?

The table top/wall mounts (3, 7, 8, 9 and 10) are not intended to sit on end. In my direct experience (7 and 9) it's "impossible" because, besides not having mount threads in the ends, neither end is perpendicular to the front/back plane. I.e from above they have a trapezoidal cross-section.
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post #4367 of 5599 Old 01-13-2012, 03:55 PM
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Originally Posted by Transplanted99 View Post

Are my banana plugs fitting correctly on the speakers, even though they do not "go in all the way"?

Yes. All of my DT speakers (four varieties) have shallow binding posts. Of course I've never heard any sort of click when inserting plugs into anything so I don't think you should be expecting distinct audible feedback to indicate success. If the plugs are snug enough to resist casual tugs they're tight enough.

By the way, if you're worried you can switch to pins. I use them on my Gems.
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post #4368 of 5599 Old 01-13-2012, 10:06 PM
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Thanks for the insight. So, that means, they can only be wall mounted. What type of brackets are available in the market for these speakers. I am trying to see if there is a way to get an angled bracket so that the bracket is pinned behind my TV but the arm of the bracket is long enough for me to mount the mythos on it.

Alternatively, what is the difference between mythos 2, 6 (table mount) and mythos 8,9,10? If I have to really go for the table mount option, which one is recommended
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post #4369 of 5599 Old 01-13-2012, 10:07 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bodosom View Post

The table top/wall mounts (3, 7, 8, 9 and 10) are not intended to sit on end. In my direct experience (7 and 9) it's "impossible" because, besides not having mount threads in the ends, neither end is perpendicular to the front/back plane. I.e from above they have a trapezoidal cross-section.

Thanks for the insight. So, that means, they can only be wall mounted. What type of brackets are available in the market for these speakers. I am trying to see if there is a way to get an angled bracket so that the bracket is pinned behind my TV but the arm of the bracket is long enough for me to mount the mythos on it.

Alternatively, what is the difference between mythos 2, 6 (table mount) and mythos 8,9,10? If I have to really go for the table mount option, which one is recommended
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post #4370 of 5599 Old 01-14-2012, 07:58 AM
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Originally Posted by palmfish View Post

Manufacturers aren't moving towards Class D because they "sound better" (whatever that means).

Class D amps are the way of the future because they are smaller, cheaper, and more efficient.

I doubt if most people could consistently identify a Denon vs. a Pioneer in a double-blind test. And again, whatever small differences you can detect will not necessarily be better vs. worse. And whatever subtly identifiable signature either one might possess will be rendered completely irrelevant once you put it in your room with your system, with your furniture, curtains, carpeting, doorways, windows, etc.

Just my opinion, but I think there are much more important details to sweat over than the logo on your amp.

I'm going to say most people would be able to hear and point out differences between the Denon and Pioneer. They sound different. I have done these tests blind many times and with no problems hearing differences between the 2 and without knowing which one was which until the test was over.
They both however have a warmer quality in a more pleasing listening over many other brands on the market. It's the only thing other then features I still like about Denon models. They are very easy to listen to. What they lack compared to the Pioneer SC models is dynamic range and top end performance. The Denon doesn't have that "DRIVE" or "FORCE" like the SC models do. They seem to run out of gas before they get started. Kinda boring to listen to on a high dynamic scene.
Going Denon or Pioneer is a very personal decision. I have owned both over the years and find myself always going back to Pioneer for overall performance , sound quality and especially Dynamic range.
With the STS and ST I'm assuming most will be attracted to these models as they are both music and movies lovers.
The room , placement and calibration are very important as if you fail here , your system will never be as good as it could be. Purchasing the correct receiver and speakers for the given space is also very important. Remember we are all building a system to work to achieve a goal , that goal is to have the best replay system our money and time can afford.
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post #4371 of 5599 Old 01-14-2012, 08:04 AM
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If only I could get the SQ of my Pioneer SC with the features of the Denon.
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post #4372 of 5599 Old 01-14-2012, 02:30 PM
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I can't seem to find happiness with my Def Tech CCs. I had a CLR 2300 that just didn't seem the clear or full. I thought maybe it was the space in the TV cabinet even though it had about 5" of breathing room. So I found a great open box deal on a Mythos 8, got that and sold the 2300. The Mythos 8 just doesn't seem clear to me. I popped the grill of and noticed a dimple in the dome of the tweeter. Is that supposed to be there? Maybe that is the problem. It's not even as clear is my cheap Boston Acoustic HS225. I really like Def Tech towers, but so far my experience with the centers is not impressive.

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post #4373 of 5599 Old 01-14-2012, 02:46 PM
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^^^^ give the CS 8080 a shot.
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post #4374 of 5599 Old 01-14-2012, 08:21 PM
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Originally Posted by LowellG View Post

I can't seem to find happiness with my Def Tech CCs. I had a CLR 2300 that just didn't seem the clear or full. I thought maybe it was the space in the TV cabinet even though it had about 5" of breathing room. So I found a great open box deal on a Mythos 8, got that and sold the 2300. The Mythos 8 just doesn't seem clear to me. I popped the grill of and noticed a dimple in the dome of the tweeter. Is that supposed to be there? Maybe that is the problem. It's not even as clear is my cheap Boston Acoustic HS225. I really like Def Tech towers, but so far my experience with the centers is not impressive.

I too have never been satisfied with the center channel sound. Personally I am going to wait and see what others say about the CS8080HD. I currently use 2 centers (Mythos 8 and 10) together (one on top of the screen and the other on the bottom). Looking at the spec's of the 8080HD the big difference seems to be 20 - 31Hz. The 10 uses 5 x 8's while the 8080HD uses 5 x 10's for the Bass and Powered. As many centers as I have went through, I have to wonder are we all expecting more from the centers than the movie industry intended? The centers do sound clear, but volume seems really lacking at times. I actually believe that is how the sound tracks are mixed with movies. Music the center is loud and clear (especially with SACD's). Anyone else feel the same, have a different opinion or experience?

Front - Mythos ST, Center - Mythos 8 and 10
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post #4375 of 5599 Old 01-14-2012, 08:45 PM
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Personally, I think it has something to do with imperfect horizontal dispersion and off-axis response caused by the horizontal configuration of the drivers on most center-channel speakers.

M
T vs. M T M
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post #4376 of 5599 Old 01-14-2012, 08:48 PM
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Originally Posted by Maddmaster View Post


I too have never been satisfied with the center channel sound. Personally I am going to wait and see what others say about the CS8080HD. I currently use 2 centers (Mythos 8 and 10) together (one on top of the screen and the other on the bottom). Looking at the spec's of the 8080HD the big difference seems to be 20 - 31Hz. The 10 uses 5 x 8's while the 8080HD uses 5 x 10's for the Bass and Powered. As many centers as I have went through, I have to wonder are we all expecting more from the centers than the movie industry intended? The centers do sound clear, but volume seems really lacking at times. I actually believe that is how the sound tracks are mixed with movies. Music the center is loud and clear (especially with SACD's). Anyone else feel the same, have a different opinion or experience?

Do you notice much difference between the 8 and the 10?

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post #4377 of 5599 Old 01-14-2012, 09:10 PM
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A little update on my ST's...I replaced the tweeters (due to dented domes) as you know, but there is more to the story.

When I got my shipment from Bajawaveruner, the wherehouse accidentally shipped BP6 tweeters. The part numbers are very similar so it was an easy mistake. Anyways, while waiting for the correct tweeters, I installed the BP6 tweeters. I found the sound significantly darker than before, but after MCACC all was back to normal. It's interesting though that with the new calibration the stereo image was quite different than before - not better or worse, just different.

Well, I got the correct tweeters the other day and installed them. Now I find them to also be a little dark sounding on the original calibration and too sibilant on the new calibration. I opened the new calibration and lowered all the sliders above 1000 Hz down to flat and things sound good again. I will do a fresh calibration after I let the tweeters burn in a few hours, but in the meantime, the modified calibration I'm using sounds quite good. When I switch from cal to "Pure Direct" I can't believe how bad pure direct sounds. Vocals sound hollow and boxy - with MCACC vocals are front and center with instruments occupying their own space within a very 3D soundfield that extends nicely beyond the width of the speakers.

If I had grown accustomed to or took these speakers for granted, I have a new appreciation for how wonderful they sound. I've had them for almost 3 years now and have no desire or plans to replace them.
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post #4378 of 5599 Old 01-14-2012, 09:29 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Maddmaster View Post

... The centers do sound clear, but volume seems really lacking at times. I actually believe that is how the sound tracks are mixed with movies. ... Anyone else feel the same, have a different opinion or experience?

I don't have this problem unless I listen significantly below reference (say -40dB) without using Audysey Dynamic Volume. The slight struggle to hear dialog is the reminder that D-Vol is off. This was true of my 7 and is true for my 9. Pre-Audsyssey (and pre-DT) I did fiddle a bit more with the center gain. Sometimes I'd give up and switch to a phantom center.
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post #4379 of 5599 Old 01-17-2012, 06:27 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Maddmaster View Post

I too have never been satisfied with the center channel sound. Personally I am going to wait and see what others say about the CS8080HD. I currently use 2 centers (Mythos 8 and 10) together (one on top of the screen and the other on the bottom). Looking at the spec's of the 8080HD the big difference seems to be 20 - 31Hz. The 10 uses 5 x 8's while the 8080HD uses 5 x 10's for the Bass and Powered. As many centers as I have went through, I have to wonder are we all expecting more from the centers than the movie industry intended? The centers do sound clear, but volume seems really lacking at times. I actually believe that is how the sound tracks are mixed with movies. Music the center is loud and clear (especially with SACD's). Anyone else feel the same, have a different opinion or experience?

I have the 8080HD center with the Mythos ST and it'a great combo. I prefer it as a center more than Mythos 10

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post #4380 of 5599 Old 01-17-2012, 07:33 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Maddmaster View Post

I too have never been satisfied with the center channel sound. Personally I am going to wait and see what others say about the CS8080HD. I currently use 2 centers (Mythos 8 and 10) together (one on top of the screen and the other on the bottom). Looking at the spec's of the 8080HD the big difference seems to be 20 - 31Hz. The 10 uses 5 x 8's while the 8080HD uses 5 x 10's for the Bass and Powered. As many centers as I have went through, I have to wonder are we all expecting more from the centers than the movie industry intended? The centers do sound clear, but volume seems really lacking at times. I actually believe that is how the sound tracks are mixed with movies. Music the center is loud and clear (especially with SACD's). Anyone else feel the same, have a different opinion or experience?

I went from mythos 10 to 8080hd as well and it made huge difference. Has a more theater quality authority to it. Everything is just more natural and has more "presence". On Lord of the Rings for example- it is amazing to hear Galadriel's narrative and Gandalf's vocals have more power. A worthy upgrade for sure!

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