Definitive Technology Mythos Series Thread - Page 181 - AVS Forum
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post #5401 of 5611 Old 11-17-2013, 09:02 AM
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Thanks, some manufactures require to place their speaker 2-3 feet from the wall, but that is not the case here, correct?
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post #5402 of 5611 Old 11-17-2013, 09:45 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 55la View Post

Thanks, some manufactures require to place their speaker 2-3 feet from the wall, but that is not the case here, correct?
It still applies here as well. Bipolar speakers need room behind the speaker for proper performance. Direct firing speakers need space only if the lower frequencies are magnified to your dislike. Remember these have sub's built in so close to wall means more bass. You can dial the sub's down though via gain knob. Try it both ways and see what you prefer. And if they have to be up against the wall you'll know what your missing. Good luck and have fun.
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post #5403 of 5611 Old 11-17-2013, 10:04 AM
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Fun it will be. I am considering buying them, and I would prefer speakers that can be placed close to the wall. Reviews are very good for these. They're lookers as well.
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post #5404 of 5611 Old 11-17-2013, 12:54 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 55la View Post

Fun it will be. I am considering buying them, and I would prefer speakers that can be placed close to the wall. Reviews are very good for these. They're lookers as well.
I think it's less of an issue if you're using separate sub(s). Otherwise bass response will be tighter if away from the walls, but won't dig as low...Less issue if you can crossover the low end of the ST/STS to a sub (I use 60 crossover, fronts about 2 feet from walls, SVS subwoofer rear corner nearfield)..still sounds great, the integration b/t tweeter, mids and lows handled very well by the speaker internal crossover system...almost brought me to tears the first time I dialed it it and listed to high res music...kf
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post #5405 of 5611 Old 11-17-2013, 02:31 PM
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If I go with STS, my plan is not to buy a sub. They supposed to be capable on low end. And as I understand they don't have ports/holes at the rear, unlike some other speakers.
Actually I was set on Aperions, but since they stopped free shipping, I am considering these.
Thanks for your input.
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post #5406 of 5611 Old 11-17-2013, 07:30 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 55la View Post

If I go with STS, my plan is not to buy a sub. They supposed to be capable on low end. And as I understand they don't have ports/holes at the rear, unlike some other speakers.
Actually I was set on Aperions, but since they stopped free shipping, I am considering these.
Thanks for your input.
Just because there are no ports doesn't change the fact that bass will be magnified closer to the walls. And the have plenty of bottom end. I run my st with no sub when I listen to music even bass heavy stuff. Once dialed in and the first time you crank them up you'll get chills. Enjoy.
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post #5407 of 5611 Old 11-17-2013, 07:54 PM
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Originally Posted by WhiteJ View Post


Just because there are no ports doesn't change the fact that bass will be magnified closer to the walls. And the have plenty of bottom end. I run my st with no sub when I listen to music even bass heavy stuff. Once dialed in and the first time you crank them up you'll get chills. Enjoy.
Anticipation... I need to find a deal... Hard, when being in Canada. Retailers are super greedy here. Probably will end up buying on line and pay import charges.
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post #5408 of 5611 Old 11-17-2013, 08:07 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 55la View Post

Anticipation... I need to find a deal... Hard, when being in Canada. Retailers are super greedy here. Probably will end up buying on line and pay import charges.

What kind of equipment do you have or had if you don't mind me asking. My prior system was 7.2 Polk rti8 csi5 fxi5 and dual psw505.
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post #5409 of 5611 Old 11-17-2013, 08:15 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 55la View Post

Anticipation... I need to find a deal... Hard, when being in Canada. Retailers are super greedy here. Probably will end up buying on line and pay import charges.
Hi 55, in my experience lots of folks place their speakers directly up against the wall, and the comments above about the bass being magnified if you place them against the wall are correct. Stereo imaging tends to get better if you pull the speakers out from the wall a few feet, but they can sound really wonderful if they are close to the wall. I hope this helps - best, Joe
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post #5410 of 5611 Old 11-17-2013, 08:44 PM
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Originally Posted by WhiteJ View Post

What kind of equipment do you have or had if you don't mind me asking. My prior system was 7.2 Polk rti8 csi5 fxi5 and dual psw505.
I have a modest 5.1 Yamaha system in my basement gym. Life was busy ( I am an immigrant), but I always loved music. Now I have some time and money to set up a home theater. The room is almost finished. I have the player Pioneer BDP 62 and the receiver SC61. It will be 7.1 or 7.0 system. The decision on the speakers will be next. The surrounds I am almost sure will be Pro monitors 1000.
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post #5411 of 5611 Old 11-17-2013, 08:46 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by joeatdefinitive View Post

Hi 55, in my experience lots of folks place their speakers directly up against the wall, and the comments above about the bass being magnified if you place them against the wall are correct. Stereo imaging tends to get better if you pull the speakers out from the wall a few feet, but they can sound really wonderful if they are close to the wall. I hope this helps - best, Joe
It help, yes. That is what I want to hear. Thanks.
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post #5412 of 5611 Old 11-17-2013, 08:51 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 55la View Post

I have a modest 5.1 Yamaha system in my basement gym. Life was busy ( I am an immigrant), but I always loved music. Now I have some time and money to set up a home theater. The room is almost finished. I have the player Pioneer BDP 62 and the receiver SC61. It will be 7.1 or 7.0 system. The decision on the speakers will be next. The surrounds I am almost sure will be Pro monitors 1000.

Promonitors are good speakers. I had a full promonitor 800 also. Very capable little speaker. Well good luck with your hunt. I am looking forward to hearing what you end up with and what your impressions are. Sincerely a deftech junky;) cya
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post #5413 of 5611 Old 11-22-2013, 05:31 PM
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STS guys, do you use LFE inputs?
Thanks
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post #5414 of 5611 Old 11-22-2013, 10:30 PM
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I don't, just speaker wire. My LFE channel goes to the sub though. kf
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post #5415 of 5611 Old 11-22-2013, 10:39 PM
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Originally Posted by kmfellows View Post

I don't, just speaker wire. My LFE channel goes to the sub though. kf
So, you feel that bass from STS is not adequate, you must use a sub.? I am considering to buy STS, but only if I can use them without a sub.
Opinions are important for me now. Thanks.
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post #5416 of 5611 Old 11-23-2013, 07:05 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 55la View Post

So, you feel that bass from STS is not adequate, you must use a sub.? I am considering to buy STS, but only if I can use them without a sub.
Opinions are important for me now. Thanks.
OK. Let's put it this way. The sts have plenty of low end but plenty depends on your requirements/expectations. I'd say they would be one of your best options if you don't want a separate sub, need slim nice looking speakers. Do they go as low as a svs or seaton sub no. Not as much output either. One reason to go separate sub is the ability to locate it anywhere in room whereas the towers are fixed to a certain region that may not do well for lower frequencies. I have st and a supercube reference that is in the corner of my room. For normal TV movie watching with the family the towers alone are more than satisfying. If I want reference level volume and max SPL I run the sub. But be warned if you go powered towers and sub it can be tricky getting them to play nice. In my current setup my sub will crush my mains at some frequencies but for the moment I can't move it. 2 year old running around. I am very happy with my purchase it meets all my criteria. Will it work for you only you can decide. If you dont have a sub then i would hookup the sts with lfe. Then you can control sub levels from the avr. By running speaker wire only they act as a very capable full range tower.Hopefully I helped and maybe some others can chime in and cover somethings I missed. Hope to have you on the Mythos team;) cya.
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post #5417 of 5611 Old 11-23-2013, 12:39 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WhiteJ View Post

OK. Let's put it this way. The sts have plenty of low end but plenty depends on your requirements/expectations. I'd say they would be one of your best options if you don't want a separate sub, need slim nice looking speakers. Do they go as low as a svs or seaton sub no. Not as much output either. One reason to go separate sub is the ability to locate it anywhere in room whereas the towers are fixed to a certain region that may not do well for lower frequencies. I have st and a supercube reference that is in the corner of my room. For normal TV movie watching with the family the towers alone are more than satisfying. If I want reference level volume and max SPL I run the sub. But be warned if you go powered towers and sub it can be tricky getting them to play nice. In my current setup my sub will crush my mains at some frequencies but for the moment I can't move it. 2 year old running around. I am very happy with my purchase it meets all my criteria. Will it work for you only you can decide. If you dont have a sub then i would hookup the sts with lfe. Then you can control sub levels from the avr. By running speaker wire only they act as a very capable full range tower.Hopefully I helped and maybe some others can chime in and cover somethings I missed. Hope to have you on the Mythos team;) cya.
Sure it helps, thank you. I am not into huge bass, even with music. I want it tight and adequate. Right now the biggest concern is that they can be tricky with positioning. I've read it before from some users reviews. Even the manual suggest to put them 3 feet from the wall. That is something I don't want to do.
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post #5418 of 5611 Old 11-23-2013, 01:27 PM
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^ I agree with WhiteJ. If you're "not into huge bass" the ST/STS should be fine. I already had a very good sub (mid range SVS) and noticed the STS's dropped off under 40 hz. SInce I like both music and movies, I kept the sub to handle the .1 (LFE) channel as well as the lower frequencies my other speakers can't handle well (or at all...). If you don't use a sub, you would run the front speakers "full range" and can send lfe to the ST/STSs. My speakers are about 3 ft away from the walls, but if yours are closer, you'll at least get lower bass extension (if not as "tight" perhaps..). kf
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post #5419 of 5611 Old 11-23-2013, 01:52 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 55la View Post

Sure it helps, thank you. I am not into huge bass, even with music. I want it tight and adequate. Right now the biggest concern is that they can be tricky with positioning. I've read it before from some users reviews. Even the manual suggest to put them 3 feet from the wall. That is something I don't want to do.

3' out is not reasonable for most people. My ST's are approximately 16" out and they perform very well. I have no complaints about bass quantity or quality with this setup. Based on comments you've made, I think you will be very pleased with the STS bass output.
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post #5420 of 5611 Old 11-23-2013, 04:20 PM
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Thanks for your comments guys
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post #5421 of 5611 Old 11-23-2013, 10:38 PM
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I have the same setup as WhiteJ (ST and Supercube Ref) and echo his comments. The LFE inputs will give you better control of the Bass. I found it also does make a big difference in how the Towers whether ST or STS sound.

Front - Mythos ST, Center - Mythos 8 and 10
Front Height - Gems, Side Surround - Gem XL
Back Surround - Gem XL
Sub - Supercube Ref
There can never be enough music
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post #5422 of 5611 Old 11-24-2013, 06:21 PM
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If anybody is interested there is a Mythos Gem stand sale (black) at Amazon for $197 (regular price is 259).
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post #5423 of 5611 Old 11-26-2013, 08:07 PM
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Hi All,

 

Long time lurker first time poster?  

 

I bought a pair of used Mythos ST's and an HD8080 Center recently.  The guy I got them from got a good deal on the ST's (3k) like 6 months ago, and then passed that and more of the savings onto me.  I get them in a week or so!  Very excited about that.

 

Here's the problem.  I need to upgrade my receiver to something with HDMI.  I've been tossing around ideas ranging from getting a beefy receiver like a Yamaha A2030 and calling it good to getting an Anthem MRX300 + a two channel amp.  I feel like I'd be going Anthem just for ARC though which seems silly.  So I guess I have a handful of questions:

 

1)  Is there any point to running the active subs from the LFE instead of just normal speaker wire?  Essentially you're saying that you trust your receiver/prepro more than the internal crossovers when you do that right?  I've read a ton of posts here but never really got the conclusive answer.  

2)  If I got a Rotel 1572 for a really good price, should I get that + a feature rich receiver like a yamaha?  Does it even make sense to get an amp that puts out 250W at 8 ohms?  Is that overkilling this thing?

 

Overall, I get the chance to rebuild my power from the ground up, so I'd love to hear some opinions.  I'd like to keep it around 1600 or so, but I could go over that if I had good reason.  I'm open to using a power amp if it's necessary, but not sold on needing one with these speakers.

 

My surrounds are still some older B&W's I have until I can figure out if I want to perform surgery on my walls or ceiling.  I'm probably going to be 50/50 music and HT but the wife hates the look of speakers.  My room is not that large so it'll be a 5.1 system at most and I'd imagine a receiver could EASILY deafen me without clipping.  

 

Thanks!

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post #5424 of 5611 Old 11-28-2013, 02:10 PM
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I use a Yamaha RX-A3000, which I believe is comparable in power to the new A2030 and am happy with its ability to power my 2 channel Mythos ST setup. The RX-A3000 has been proven to provide its specified power output while powering a 2 channel setup but does provide less power as channels are added (based on reports and measurements Ive seen online). Ive had mine up to +10 with no signs of clipping or distortion.

Before I got the ST's I had planned on upgrading to Anthem separates, but after running this setup for the last 2 months I see no reason to rush into it. I mostly want the Anthem for ARC, but I am happy with the results of just using a db meter to calibrate the speakers.

Hope that is somewhat helpful.
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post #5425 of 5611 Old 11-28-2013, 08:27 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WhiteJ View Post


Just because there are no ports doesn't change the fact that bass will be magnified closer to the walls. And the have plenty of bottom end. I run my st with no sub when I listen to music even bass heavy stuff. Once dialed in and the first time you crank them up you'll get chills. Enjoy.

So interesting--the varied opinions about ST/STS with or without external subs, or connecting SUB out from the amp to the internal servo amps using the RCA jack, etc.
I am not going to disagree with any of the opinions here. Every room is different, every external sub is different, etc. I firmly believe in letting your ears be the judge.

Almost 8 months now enjoying a used pair of STS's.
Here are a few things I learned the hard way, about getting chills from the bass these things can play--by trying different things---some of them related to fixes required, due to a previous owner possibly having done shoddy repairs.

--The mids and tweets are in their own sealed cabinet. On my used pair of STS's, those cabinets were not sealed. The back-pressure from woofer excursion in the lower portion of the cabinet will then be leaking into the upper chamber. This will totally screw these towers up--as in FUBAR. Result is loss of bass, and other undesirable side-effects.
I have previously posted at length on how to fix it. Please go back to check those posts, if you like.

--If the servo amps have been replaced, there is also a fair chance that the seals on the active oval, and the two passive oval drivers are leaking. My fix was to cut some gaskets out of a suitable soft closed-cell foam sheet. See white gaskets about to be installed in attached picture. The test is to push in on the drivers and listen closely for any pffffffft sounds. Should be no air escaping with good seals and properly, evenly tightened screws. Same for upper cabinet section.

--External secondary subs? Tried it with a 12 inch pair of 250W servo-powered Cerwin-Vegas---and banished the thought forever after a few minutes. Obviously, these are not world-class subs.
In my case, they could not keep up with the speed, articulation, impact, and ability to go to the bottom of the earth, as do the STS's. Pic of retired subs attached.
They are going to a good home tomorrow!

--Sub-out to the RCA connectors for the STS's servo amps? No way for me.

Def-Tech got it right in their brochure---and I quote:

"Besides eliminating the need for a floor space hogging separate subwoofer, integrated subs offer dramatic performance benefits. First is the obvious benefit that you'll have two subwoofers in the room instead of just one for simply more bass output. Most importantly the subwoofers are perfectly integrated with the mid/high section. Audiophiles often spend dozens of hours moving and adjusting their subwoofers' crossover and phasing controls in pursuit of perfect subwoofer to main speaker "blending." With the Mythos STS you won't have to go through that kind of hassle to get audio perfection. Definitive's engineers have perfectly adjusted the crossover and phase between the subwoofer and main speaker sections"

---No more fretting over phase--especially with twin subs. No more guessing about crossover settings. Most AVR's only offer 50 and 80 as anything near suitable---and I don't believe either one makes for good integration between the upper D'appolito array and the lower servo-powered sub section on the STS's. It seems the brick-wall electronic slope on the AVR receiver is not a good match--just my ears...
If you are not getting bass out of your Mythos towers, I would make sure midnight loudness is off, Dynamic range control is off, and don't forget to check similar settings in your DVD or CD player as well.
There are some nasty settings carefully hidden in some of those menus.
I was using an older DVD player for CD listening. The gas-gauge scale for adjusting dynamic range from 1 to 10 was completely counter-intuitive. Had it set for what I thought would be minimal compression. Boy, I was wrong, once I downloaded and read the manual !!! Minimal compression turned out to by maximum attenuation....

----There are some bass notes coming out of my dish sat dvr box via HDMI--that still scare me at times. The jingle from Num3ers ends with a synthesized bass note that shakes the walls.
Also on Bones, and Life below zero, Mentalist---just to mention a few. Astounding !!

Amp power for STS's? I am tapping my pre-amp outs from a Pio Elite THX into an Integra ADM 2.1, with a modest, but clean 100 WPC. More than enough power for the STS. Gives the Pio more oomph when driving the other 5 speakers in the surround setup.

After all tweaks and fixes, I am loving the STS towers.
Now, I just have to save up to get a pair of the brand new STL's.http://files.avsforum.com/images/smilies/wink.gif


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post #5426 of 5611 Old 12-01-2013, 02:07 PM
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Thank you for the incredibly detailed reply.  I found a solid deal on a Yamaha 2030, so I'll have that in a few days to put this whole thing together.  Maybe eventually I'll buy a good power amp, but I think i'll be ok for now based on your response (and others I've read in the 181 pages of posts)

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post #5427 of 5611 Old 12-08-2013, 10:30 AM
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Quick question for you all. I'm running a system with a pair of Mythos STS up front paired to an 8080HD center channel. Been loving it for the past 2 years. Now I'm looking to finish off the rear speakers. I was originally planning to buy the Mythos Gem XL for the rear. Now I'm debating whether I will notice a benefit over the Mythos Gem regular series or the Promonitor 800 or 1000. Any suggestions or thoughts?
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post #5428 of 5611 Old 12-08-2013, 06:38 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AdamRB View Post

Quick question for you all. I'm running a system with a pair of Mythos STS up front paired to an 8080HD center channel. Been loving it for the past 2 years. Now I'm looking to finish off the rear speakers. I was originally planning to buy the Mythos Gem XL for the rear. Now I'm debating whether I will notice a benefit over the Mythos Gem regular series or the Promonitor 800 or 1000. Any suggestions or thoughts?
Hi Adam, I think the Gem XL is an excellent choice for a rear pair, and offers the bipolar radiating pattern that PM 1000 would not. The PM 1000 is a fine product too, but it's less money for a reason. If you've invested in STS for fronts, you want to get speakers that are close in performance for rears. As popular as the PM 1000 is, I think you'll be happier with Gem XL's. You may want to e mail or phone Chet / Adam / TJ in tech support at DT - info@definitivetech.com or 800-228-7148. Best, Joe
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post #5429 of 5611 Old 12-08-2013, 07:12 PM
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Hi Joe,
I was fine tuning the onboard sub volume on my Mythos ST mains with test tones and the SPL function in REW when I noticed something unusual.

One speaker, my left, does fine with an 11:30 setting to get a 75 db output. However, on the right speaker, I'm getting close to a 90 db read at 11:30, and lowering the gain all the way down to the bottom only reduces the read maybe 2-3 db. This speaker is almost 3' from the nearest corner. I know room gain is an issue (REW finds a 95 db peak at 25 Hz, less so for my left speaker), but isn't it strange that dialing the gain all the way down produces a minimal change in db? On my left speaker, cutting the gain to the minimum produces a silent woofer that yields the db level of my noise floor, approximately 50 db, which is what I'd expect. BTW all these tests were done with Audyssey off.

I have one solution in mind with a high pass filter for the right ST, but is there another reason why a woofer that has been dialed to the minimum has such a db read? I think the gain control is working, as the volume does go marginally up/down in the right direction.

BTW my Mythos ST are symmetric from one another and from the MLP, and Audyssey XT3/Pro set their trims when I ran them as Small/80 Hz crossover at -3.5 and -4.0 db respectively,

Stuart

 

Denon 4311 with XT32 and Audyssey Pro

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post #5430 of 5611 Old 12-08-2013, 08:01 PM
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Originally Posted by joeatdefinitive View Post

Hi Adam, I think the Gem XL is an excellent choice for a rear pair, and offers the bipolar radiating pattern that PM 1000 would not. The PM 1000 is a fine product too, but it's less money for a reason. If you've invested in STS for fronts, you want to get speakers that are close in performance for rears. As popular as the PM 1000 is, I think you'll be happier with Gem XL's. You may want to e mail or phone Chet / Adam / TJ in tech support at DT - info@definitivetech.com or 800-228-7148. Best, Joe
I was going to chime in but Joe beat me to it. I ran pm800 as sides for a few years and while they are a great little speaker for their size the gem xl are far better sounding in my room. The semi bipolar setup is great for my narrow room. To be honest I ran gem xl as front l and r for a bit before I got my st. They lack low end but they are slim, loud and clear. Plus they look classy paired with the st/sts.Check the used market for the gems. Might get lucky cya.
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