Definitive Technology Mythos Series Thread - Page 3 - AVS Forum
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post #61 of 5595 Old 01-19-2009, 09:15 AM
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Originally Posted by Macfan424 View Post

The Twos are a perfect match for the Three (essentially the same, but designed to be installed vertically). The Gem XL's have slightly different drivers (see below) and are quasi-bipolar (i.e. the mid/low drivers face different directions). That doesn't make them a bad match, just different. Some prefer the Gem sound, some don't.

I've been listening to Bose 301s for the past 15+ years with their "direct/reflecting" sound. I imagine I'd be fine with the Gem sound. I'm really eager to listen to them. Unfortunately, I live in Africa and don't have a convenient listening room. I'll be back in the US this summer, but I'm not sure I can wait that long to order them. Maybe the mark-down models won't even be available by then.

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Originally Posted by Macfan424 View Post

No, it has to do with the different drivers employed.

Thanks for that info. I had no idea they were different drivers. That difference in freq response along with the shorter size might make up my mind for me. The only problem is that the Gem XLs are the only one of the aluminum series that isn't marked down on Amazon, so they are almost the same price as the 2s.
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post #62 of 5595 Old 01-19-2009, 09:25 AM
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Another question. Did any of you Mythos owners audition the DT ProCinema series before settling on Mythos? If so, can you comment on your impressions on the difference in sounds. The ProCinemas seem pretty attractive to me, too. Since they seem to offer a deeper base response (based on specs) at a cheaper price. Then you can lower the crossover freq on you sub and decrease the localization effect on the sub. What do you think I would be missing out on if I chose them over the Mythos (the lower-end Mythos models, that is)?
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post #63 of 5595 Old 01-19-2009, 10:08 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bigAWL View Post

Another question. Did any of you Mythos owners audition the DT ProCinema series before settling on Mythos? If so, can you comment on your impressions on the difference in sounds. The ProCinemas seem pretty attractive to me, too. Since they seem to offer a deeper base response (based on specs) at a cheaper price. Then you can lower the crossover freq on you sub and decrease the localization effect on the sub. What do you think I would be missing out on if I chose them over the Mythos (the lower-end Mythos models, that is)?

While showroom demonstrations can be misleading for a number of reasons, my impression was that the Mythos were notably smoother in the midrange and especially the highs. Of course, that was what I was expecting to hear, so who can say how much the placebo effect was influencing my observation.

If you go with the XL's, you can comfortably use an 80Hz X-over, which should cause no localization problems. Theoretically, 100Hz should be fine, too. A lot of early AVRs used 100 or 120Hz as a fixed X-over without problem, but some people insist they can hear localization at 100Hz. But then there are those say they can at 80Hz or even 50 or 40Hz. Again, it's hard to know how much of that is placebo, but once it's in your mindset, it's almost impossible to dismiss.
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post #64 of 5595 Old 01-20-2009, 12:39 AM
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I am looking interested in becoming a Mythos owner. I am thinking about two set ups
1.The 6's L/R,7 C, Gem XL rear
2.The 2's L/R, 3 C, Gem XL rear

Cost being a big issue. I am also considering the Supercube II since I can get it for 40% off MSRP. The cost will be about $260 difference. (I also could get the Gem's for $80 less a pair to save.)
My room is 10x13, 70%H/T 30% music and I will be using a Pioneer Elite VSX03 receiver

Any recomendations or thoughts would be appreciated, I cant find these two setups side by side to compare the differences.
Thnx
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post #65 of 5595 Old 01-20-2009, 06:12 AM
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I have a Def tech PF15 plus which I love , I been thinking of adding the two's and a three center for the front, what are my best option for rear?
do I even bother with 7.1 ? what height do you guys put your rears at?
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post #66 of 5595 Old 01-20-2009, 08:14 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mattyv View Post

I am looking interested in becoming a Mythos owner. I am thinking about two set ups
1.The 6's L/R,7 C, Gem XL rear
2.The 2's L/R, 3 C, Gem XL rear

Cost being a big issue. I am also considering the Supercube II since I can get it for 40% off MSRP. The cost will be about $260 difference. (I also could get the Gem's for $80 less a pair to save.)
My room is 10x13, 70%H/T 30% music and I will be using a Pioneer Elite VSX03 receiver

Any recomendations or thoughts would be appreciated, I cant find these two setups side by side to compare the differences.
Thnx

If you can swing the extra $260, I would tend to go with the second system you proposed--The 3's and 2's have larger drivers and I owned both for a time--they really sound much larger than their size. They are well reviewed in most of the press I have read. (You can also save some $$$ going with the aluminum finish on line) Unfortunately, I cannot find any detailed reviews on the 6 and 7's and I've not heard them personally.

I think also for your size of room, the SuperCube II would be a good fit (assuming your room isn't open to cathedral ceilings, large rooms, etc.)--you can always add a second sub later if necessary.

I think if I were going to try to save money somewhere, I would save it on the Gem's--they will used only for surround and are less critical than having a strong quality center, sub, and mains. (in approximately that order IMHO).

Good luck!
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post #67 of 5595 Old 01-20-2009, 08:32 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bigAWL View Post

Another question. Did any of you Mythos owners audition the DT ProCinema series before settling on Mythos? If so, can you comment on your impressions on the difference in sounds. The ProCinemas seem pretty attractive to me, too. Since they seem to offer a deeper base response (based on specs) at a cheaper price. Then you can lower the crossover freq on you sub and decrease the localization effect on the sub. What do you think I would be missing out on if I chose them over the Mythos (the lower-end Mythos models, that is)?

I've had a DT ProCinema system for the last 13 years or so in addition to my new Mythos sytem. To my ears the Mythos does a better job of bringing out the details in the mid bass and treble regions. Things sound more open, full and airy. The sound is a little less compressed when played at loud volumes. The lower midbass also sounds tighter more defined when compared to the ProCinema speakers. I especially think my Mythos 8 center really improves things on movies compared to the ProCinema center. When I had a Mythos 3 center, I think the same comparision applied, just perhaps less so.

Having said that, I still really like my ProCinema system--it has never noticably bottomed out at the movie levels I listen to, and I have been completely satisfied with it and would buy it again. Of course, there will be compromises in sound/appearance due to cost, but it's a great system as well. The construction is solid, and although I do believe the Mythos line is better, I think you'd be happy with the ProCinemas if cost is the overriding consideration.

Just my two cents, YMMV.
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post #68 of 5595 Old 01-20-2009, 09:04 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mvp2005fan View Post

Just my two cents, YMMV.

Thanks very much for your opinion. Since I tend to stick with one system for a long time, I'm really leaning toward the Mythos system (GemXL fronts, Three center and Gem Surround). Two years from now, I don't think I'll regret spending a little more than a needed to. But I sure would regret if I felt like I should have spent more.
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post #69 of 5595 Old 01-20-2009, 10:27 AM
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so 2's for L/R 3 for center keep my older PL15plus
and add 2 gems xl for the rear.

6's L/R and 7 Center if the money is short or just go for the silvers in the 2's 3's that are on discount as long as GEM XL will be big enough for rears
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post #70 of 5595 Old 01-20-2009, 01:08 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bigAWL View Post

Thanks very much for your opinion. Since I tend to stick with one system for a long time, I'm really leaning toward the Mythos system (GemXL fronts, Three center and Gem Surround). Two years from now, I don't think I'll regret spending a little more than a needed to. But I sure would regret if I felt like I should have spent more.

Hi, bigAWL: I agree--regretting spending less is a drag...

You might consider using 2's as your L/R, if you want to more closely match your 3 center. I'm not sure how the bipolar nature of the GemXL's will sound when used as fronts with the 3. I don't mean that in a negative way--I just have not heard (or read about) this combo before. Have you auditioned this combo? If so, how does it sound to you?

In any event--let us know what you end up deciding
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post #71 of 5595 Old 01-20-2009, 06:15 PM
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I think your right MVP 2's front 3 center I have a 15pl plus sub and I will need the rears which I think the Gem XL's should be good for. Im not a big fan of the silver color ones but if I can get the better sounding speaker and save a little I will.
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post #72 of 5595 Old 01-20-2009, 08:06 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mvp2005fan View Post

If you can swing the extra $260, I would tend to go with the second system you proposed--The 3's and 2's have larger drivers and I owned both for a time--they really sound much larger than their size. They are well reviewed in most of the press I have read. (You can also save some $$$ going with the aluminum finish on line) Unfortunately, I cannot find any detailed reviews on the 6 and 7's and I've not heard them personally.

I think also for your size of room, the SuperCube II would be a good fit (assuming your room isn't open to cathedral ceilings, large rooms, etc.)--you can always add a second sub later if necessary.

I think if I were going to try to save money somewhere, I would save it on the Gem's--they will used only for surround and are less critical than having a strong quality center, sub, and mains. (in approximately that order IMHO).

Good luck!

Thanks for the insight...I think I am best going with the 2's,3 setup like you stated. If I just get the Gems it will only be $180 difference and I am not sure that I would get much out of the XL's over the Gems anyway. Plus I can use that saved money and get two more Gems for 7.1 down the road. The sub I can always audition as they are easy to install/setup and buy and return at BB.
Thnx
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post #73 of 5595 Old 01-20-2009, 11:23 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mvp2005fan View Post

Hi, bigAWL: I agree--regretting spending less is a drag...

You might consider using 2's as your L/R, if you want to more closely match your 3 center. I'm not sure how the bipolar nature of the GemXL's will sound when used as fronts with the 3. I don't mean that in a negative way--I just have not heard (or read about) this combo before. Have you auditioned this combo? If so, how does it sound to you?

In any event--let us know what you end up deciding

Yes, I'd like to go with 2 L/R instead of the GemXLs, but for my room right now, I really need a bookshelf-sized speaker. I move around every 2-3 years, so the size and flexibility of the GemXLs is a big plus. Later if I have space for the 2s, and I feel like the GemXLs aren't cutting it, I can upgade. In this case, the regret of spending less won't be so bad because there is a simple upgade path with the 2s, without replacing the whole shebang. And then I have myself a 7.1 setup.

I have not heard any of these speakers myself. But I've read and heard very positive reviews using the Gems (not XL) all around with a 7 center.
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post #74 of 5595 Old 01-21-2009, 02:02 AM
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I finally sat down and looked at all whole Mythos line and figured out which models go with which based on driver type and size. I thought some here might find this useful, so I’ve listed them below (please let me know if you see something wrong). Some of the model numbering seems funny to me (for instance, the model progression from tower - tabletop - center in the 4.5”ers go out of sequence: 4 – 2 – 3, but the 3.5”ers go in sequence: 5 – 6 – 7).

I’ve also thrown in the ProCinema models that seem to use the same drivers as the SuperTowers. It kind of makes me wonder if the ProMonitors would be a better surround match for the SuperTowers than the Gem/GemXL. Any thoughts?

Balanced Double Surround System (BDSS)
5.25”
- Mythos ST SuperTower
- Mythos Ten (center/on-wall)
- ProMonitor 1000*
- ProCenter 2000*

4.5”
- Mythos STS SuperTower
- Mythos Nine (center/on-wall)
- ProMonitor 800*
- ProCenter 1000*

3.25”
- ProMonitor 600*
- ProCenter 600*

High Definition Drivers
5.25”
- Mythos One (tower)
- Mythos Eight (center/on-wall)

4.5”
- Mythos Four (tower)
- Mythos Two (table-top/on-wall)
- Mythos Three (center)
- Mythos GemXL** (satellite) angled drivers

3.5”
- Mythos Five (tower)
- Mythos Six (table-top/on-wall)
- Mythos Seven (center)
- Mythos Gem** (satellite) angled drivers

* The ProCinema line of speakers (ProMonitor and ProCenter) are not necessarily voice-matched with any of the Mythos line.

** The information Macfan424 got from DefTech indicates that the Gem/GemXL drivers are actually new and improved over the ones I’ve grouped them with, but I didn’t break them out separately. They are intended to be voice-matched to all Mythos speakers, including the SuperTowers.
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post #75 of 5595 Old 01-21-2009, 09:22 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bigAWL View Post

... * The information Macfan424 got from DefTech indicates that the Gem/GemXL drivers are actually new and improved over the ones I’ve grouped them with, but I didn’t break them out separately.

Actually, there are other cases where the drivers are different, albeit the same size. The Nines compared to the Threes, for an example. The Nines use the newer drivers developed for the STS's; the Threes use the older ones that match the Fours. Your charts reflect that, intentionally or not. On the other hand, it's pretty certain that the ProMonitor drivers are distinctly different than the Mythos, regardless of size.

I seem to be rather lonely in this, but I think too much emphasis is placed on driver size anyway (not here especially, but on AVS in general). Voicing is much more important. For that matter, positioning may well be a bigger factor. A good designer can match two speakers very closely, even when employing different sized drivers. Further, even identical speakers will sound slightly different in a real room depending upon their placement, and it's all but impossible to make horizontal speakers sound absolutely identical to vertical ones even when they have the exact same drivers (this invariably shows up in lab tests).

DefTech has taken the position that the whole Mythos line is designed to mix and match seamlessly. They have been quite willing to recommend combining different driver sizes in their system suggestions, and I, for one, am inclined to take their word for it. They know how their speakers are designed, and they have a vested interest in suggesting systems that make their customers happy.

That said, your chart is interesting and handy, bigAWL, although I'd guess the Gem XL's are closer to the STS/Nines than the Two/Tree/Fours. (Maybe the midrange of the former and the tweeter of the latter???) I also think the ProMonitors should be treated separately.

On the other hand, while I wouldn't say "better" the the XL's, I'd bet that the ProMonitors would combine very well as rear surrounds in a Mythos system. I recently inserted a pair of old Polk M3's (a Sandy Gross influenced design from his salad days at Polk) as rears, and they blend effectively with my STS/Threes, even on pink noise. No doubt a more current Gross inspired design would blend at least as well. While I firmly believe the front three speakers should match as closely as possible, the rears (and, to a lesser extent, the sides) allow much greater latitude.
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post #76 of 5595 Old 01-21-2009, 12:06 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Macfan424 View Post

Further, even identical speakers will sound slightly different in a real room depending upon their placement

yup, you can really hear the difference when you sit down and run pink noise to each channel. even with identical speakers like you said

this is why some people say the most important component is the room (room acoustics)

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Originally Posted by Macfan424 View Post

and it's all but impossible to make horizontal speakers sound absolutely identical to vertical ones even when they have the exact same drivers (this invariably shows up in lab tests).

that's why i have always run my center channel vertical for like 12 years now

a few weeks ago, i turned my center horizontal just to check to see if i'm crazy but it sounded much better vertical so i switched it back

All this noise about noise.
♪♫♪♫♪♫♪♫♪♫♪♫♪♫♪♫♪♫♪♫♪♫♪♫
Finding the acoustic sweet spot.
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post #77 of 5595 Old 01-21-2009, 01:58 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by otk View Post

...that's why i have always run my center channel vertical for like 12 years now

a few weeks ago, i turned my center horizontal just to check to see if i'm crazy but it sounded much better vertical so i switched it back

It's the "right" way to go, but not logistically feasible in most rooms. Is yours in a home theater (the "real" kind with a projection screen)?

Never thought it would be too cool to have a vertical speaker obscuring the middle of my plasma.
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post #78 of 5595 Old 01-21-2009, 03:32 PM
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Originally Posted by Macfan424 View Post

It's the "right" way to go, but not logistically feasible in most rooms. Is yours in a home theater (the "real" kind with a projection screen)?

Never thought it would be too cool to have a vertical speaker obscuring the middle of my plasma.

i keep my center vertical below my screen tilted up a bit

someday i plan on doing 3 identical towers behind an acoustically transparent screen

All this noise about noise.
♪♫♪♫♪♫♪♫♪♫♪♫♪♫♪♫♪♫♪♫♪♫♪♫
Finding the acoustic sweet spot.
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post #79 of 5595 Old 01-23-2009, 07:19 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bigAWL View Post

I finally sat down and looked at all whole Mythos line and figured out which models go with which based on driver type and size. I thought some here might find this useful, so I've listed them below .

Thanks, bigAWL! --linked your helpful chart in the first post.
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post #80 of 5595 Old 01-23-2009, 07:30 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by otk View Post

yup, you can really hear the difference when you sit down and run pink noise to each channel. even with identical speakers like you said

I know this topic has been kicked around a lot, and I agree with otk's statement 100%--the difference is pretty easily heard in that setting.

However, with similarly "voiced" speakers I can honestly say that once the movie starts, I have yet to think in the middle of it: "Hey, that horizontal center really doesn't match the vertical mains".

It's similar to an issue on the sub forum where some are trying to suggest that a box version of a sub sounds better than the cylinder version of the same sub because the specs are marginally better. I strongly suspect that in home, with a truly randomized, controlled trial, most folks couldn't tell the difference. I have read professional reviewers who claim they can, but usually those are in A/B comparisons, not true RCT's.

It makes me wonder if these real differences translate to significant "actual use" differences. It's clear that our perceptions/preconceptions can influence what we perceive.

Sometimes, perhaps we know too much.
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post #81 of 5595 Old 01-23-2009, 08:40 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mvp2005fan View Post

...However, with similarly "voiced" speakers I can honestly say that once the movie starts, I have yet to think in the middle of it: "Hey, that horizontal center really doesn't match the vertical mains".

I agree totally. And in most "real world" rooms, there can be some latitude with the side surrounds without disrupting the effect; even more with the rears. This is aided by modern AVRs which can do a surprisingly fine job of blending disparate speakers.

However, I still believe the front three should match as closely as possible (e.g. use sets recommended by the manufacturer).

Quote:
Originally Posted by mvp2005fan View Post

...It makes me wonder if these real differences translate to significant "actual use" differences. It's clear that our perceptions/preconceptions can influence what we perceive.

Sometimes, perhaps we know too much.

Yup. The whole audio hobby is tinged with this, and always has been. I often cringe when I think of the money I've spent over the years on "improvements" that were only in my head.

Still, feeling good about your equipment is a big part of the fun, and it can be argued that money spent to that end is money well spent after all.
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post #82 of 5595 Old 01-23-2009, 09:53 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by Macfan424 View Post

Still, feeling good about your equipment is a big part of the fun, and it can be argued that money spent to that end is money well spent after all.

Amen, brother!

On a related note: it is surprising to me how just knowing the sub is in a given corner of a room makes one feel the bass somehow sounds "unbalanced", even if the crossover is so low it's non-directional--that's how I ended up with two subs!

As you put it: "money well spent"... (although my spouse might disagree!)
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post #83 of 5595 Old 01-23-2009, 10:00 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mvp2005fan View Post

Amen, brother!

On a related note: it is surprising to me how just knowing the sub is in a given corner of a room makes one feel the bass somehow sounds "unbalanced", even if the crossover is so low it's non-directional--that's how I ended up with two subs!

As you put it: "money well spent"... (although my spouse might disagree!)

I wound up with two subs, too, although in my case the second one actually tamed a nasty standing wave.
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post #84 of 5595 Old 01-23-2009, 02:23 PM
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Just curious, what are you guys using for a center channel? I have MYTHOS ones and am looking for a voice matching center.Great forum by the way.
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post #85 of 5595 Old 01-23-2009, 02:29 PM - Thread Starter
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Hi, shoptech:

I'm using a Mythos 8 with my Mythos 1 L/R's. The 8 uses the same drivers, blends well, and sounds great (with a sub, of course).

The Mythos 3 I had also performed well, but I decided to go with the 8 in an attempt to match the 1's better (there's that "perception influences hearing" thing again" )

In any event, I don't think you'd go wrong with either one (or even one of the other Mythos centers--although I've not heard the 9 or 10)

Good luck!
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post #86 of 5595 Old 01-23-2009, 03:17 PM
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Originally Posted by shoptech View Post

Just curious, what are you guys using for a center channel? I have MYTHOS ones and am looking for a voice matching center.Great forum by the way.

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Originally Posted by mvp2005fan View Post

Hi, shoptech:

I'm using a Mythos 8 with my Mythos 1 L/R's. The 8 uses the same drivers, blends well, and sounds great (with a sub, of course).

The Mythos 3 I had also performed well, but I decided to go with the 8 in an attempt to match the 1's better (there's that "perception influences hearing" thing again" )

In any event, I don't think you'd go wrong with either one (or even one of the other Mythos centers--although I've not heard the 9 or 10)

Good luck!

I'm using a Three with my STS's. I like the idea of a Nine, but they didn't exist at the time. The Three uses earlier generation drivers than the STS whereas the Nine uses the same ones. At first, I thought the Three was a bit less smooth at the top, but after it (or, more likely, my ears ) broke in, it seems to integrate seamlessly.

I first heard the Three at a dealer coupled with Ones, and I thought they were great together. In any case, DefTech makes a point of voice matching the entire Mythos series to make it mix-and-match, so whatever you choose should work well.
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post #87 of 5595 Old 01-24-2009, 01:26 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mvp2005fan View Post

Thanks, bigAWL! --linked your helpful chart in the first post.

Cool. I've also edited it a bit just to include a couple notes reflecting others' comments about the voice-matching of the Mythos line, and that the ProCinemas are not necessarily voice-matched.
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post #88 of 5595 Old 01-24-2009, 05:26 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by shoptech View Post

Just curious, what are you guys using for a center channel? I have MYTHOS ones and am looking for a voice matching center.Great forum by the way.

I am using a CLR2002 - also same drivers I believe and it works well. Lookswise, it dosen't quite match of course....
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post #89 of 5595 Old 01-24-2009, 10:40 AM
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If I get the Mythos 6 or the Mythos 5, how much power will the receiver need? The Mythos 6 says 10-175w and The Mythos 5 is 10-200w. I'm thinking about getting the Denon AVR-789.
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post #90 of 5595 Old 01-24-2009, 12:48 PM
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Originally Posted by surma884 View Post

If I get the Mythos 6 or the Mythos 5, how much power will the receiver need? The Mythos 6 says 10-175w and The Mythos 5 is 10-200w. I'm thinking about getting the Denon AVR-789.

Power ratings from speaker manufacturers don't mean much. I'm sure the Denon will be more than adequate. I have power meters, and my Mythos 3 (rated 10-200w) rarely draws as much as 2w on peaks. The 5 and 6 are supposed to be slightly less efficient, so you might draw 3-5w. Even if you play twice as loud as I do, that would be only 30 to 50w.

To get an idea of how amp power translates into dB, you can use this conversion chart. Enter the amp power into the lower box and it will show how many dBs it will produce. Add that figure to the speaker's sensitivity (89dB in the case of the 5's and 6's), and you'll get an idea how loud it will get (e.g. ~108dB with the combinations you are considering). Various factors such as room configuration, listening distance, number of channels playing, etc. affect the exact output, but this is close enough.

To translate that into everyday experience, you can use this dB chart.
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