Definitive Technology Mythos Series Thread - Page 7 - AVS Forum
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post #181 of 5570 Old 02-17-2009, 11:53 AM
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Macfan, which SVS subs are you using ?

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post #182 of 5570 Old 02-17-2009, 12:02 PM
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Originally Posted by bmonlycg View Post

heys guys! well im new with the def tech and i am lookin to purchase a pair of mythos four to replace my current setup. I live in an apartment which doesnt keep me from cranking it. i really just want something that has clear sound for ht and regular tv watching. i heard these at bb and loved them! i realize you guys might be bias but any opinions on this? the room is about 17X15 open to the kitchen and dining room. also at bb the bass didnt seem bad, how are these in your set up? Does anybody mind posting a couple pics of there setup? and also i know its not the matching center BUT how would the procenter 2000 go with these or any other mythos? Do to size limitations that would work out alot better for me. This would be ran by my hk 247. Thanks again and sorry for all the questions...


any help with the cc?
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post #183 of 5570 Old 02-17-2009, 12:15 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Teeter View Post

BigAWL, you and I have been on similar paths trying to upgrade our HT. (Except for the Africa part!) Here's what I've learned about the Mythos line:

The Mythos series was designed specifically to work with subwoofers. Because of that, Definitive didn't do any boosting of the mid/upper bass ranges that is common in smaller speakers. Boosting gives the illusion that small speakers have more bass than they really do. But because Definitive doesn't do this with Mythos, they sound quite bare without a sub. (On the other hand, lack of mid-bass boost makes them blend much easier with a sub.) FYI, I tried listening to a pair of Two's without a sub and they sound like computer speakers. Add a sub and they sound glorious.

So long story short, I think you'll be quite unsatisfied running Mythos without the sub.

-T

Thanks for the input.

So did you go with the Twos, then? It seems like you were debating between Twos, GemXLs and Sixes. I would probably go with Twos up front if only my front wall wasn't all bookcases. The Twos don't fit very well. GemXLs will, so that's my plan.

After setting up the Three, I figured I wouldn't be able to use the GemXLs without a sub. That means I have to wait until August to get it all together. Major bummer! But I'll be getting rid of the Bose in May, so I guess I'll get the GemXLs and go without the sub for a little bit.
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post #184 of 5570 Old 02-17-2009, 12:32 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by otk View Post

Macfan, which SVS subs are you using ?

I have a 16-46 PC-Plus in the front corner (behind my Kuro) and a PB12-NSD in the opposite rear corner (behind the listening position, which is angled toward the corner placed TV).

Like just about everything else I've done in that room, this flies in the face of conventional wisdom. I had the PC-Plus first. When I wanted the second one, the available space would only accommodate a box. I was concerned about all of the differences, but Ed Mullin assured me they would be a good mix, and sure enough, they have been. Of course, it certainly helps to have the SMS-1 to assist with the tuning and balancing. The combo lets me tune the PC-Plus to 12Hz, without incurring a detectable penalty in the higher frequencies.
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post #185 of 5570 Old 02-17-2009, 03:39 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bigAWL View Post

Thanks for the input.

So did you go with the Twos, then? It seems like you were debating between Twos, GemXLs and Sixes. I would probably go with Twos up front if only my front wall wasn't all bookcases. The Twos don't fit very well. GemXLs will, so that's my plan.

After setting up the Three, I figured I wouldn't be able to use the GemXLs without a sub. That means I have to wait until August to get it all together. Major bummer! But I'll be getting rid of the Bose in May, so I guess I'll get the GemXLs and go without the sub for a little bit.

I finally pulled the trigger and went with the Fives and a Seven in front and Gems in the back. I spent a few sheckels more than I'd intended (DOH!!!) but new I'd have buyer's remorse if I didn't get something I really liked.

Ultimately, I gave up on trying to use my 13" tall bookshelves for fronts since that requirement was so limiting. The Fives are so sleek that they take very little floor space (compared to my old Boston towers.)

FYI, I also got a Marantz SR5003 AVR and an SVS PC12-NSD sub. I'm looking forward to having some real bass for a change, but the Mythos won't be here for a week or so. So, for now, I'm just waiting and hoping it all adds up the way I'm hoping it will.
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post #186 of 5570 Old 02-17-2009, 08:02 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Teeter View Post

I finally pulled the trigger and went with the Fives and a Seven in front and Gems in the back. I spent a few sheckels more than I'd intended (DOH!!!) but new I'd have buyer's remorse if I didn't get something I really liked.

Ultimately, I gave up on trying to use my 13" tall bookshelves for fronts since that requirement was so limiting. The Fives are so sleek that they take very little floor space (compared to my old Boston towers.)

FYI, I also got a Marantz SR5003 AVR and an SVS PC12-NSD sub. I'm looking forward to having some real bass for a change, but the Mythos won't be here for a week or so. So, for now, I'm just waiting and hoping it all adds up the way I'm hoping it will.

Congrats, Teeter! (I know this has been a long time coming). Be sure to let us know how everything works out.
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post #187 of 5570 Old 02-17-2009, 08:28 PM
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Thanks for the replies. I agree that I'll be thrilled with either decision especially since I'm pretty new to this and will be stepping up from a cheap htib. I liked hearing the STS speakers described as forgiving as far as speaker placement goes but I will be sure to demo them myself before I make the big decision.
Thanks again.
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post #188 of 5570 Old 02-17-2009, 10:25 PM
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Ok so I graduate nursing school in May. Will be saving up for a system, but have about $2,500 saved up now. The tv is going to be a Sony 52" LCD XBR. My ps3 and a Sony STR-DA3400ES Reciever or Onkyo TX-SR876. The problem is my actual location. Here is what I mean by that. Right now i'm living in our other house due to school and i'm in the bonus room above the double car garage and its 19x19. I plan on moving back to our other house when I graduate. I highly doubt that I will ever be in a room this big again, even when I move out I will hopefully having a living room that is of decent size, but not huge. Plus, I will be living w/ my parents for the next couple of years and I don't want to have the telling me to turn it down all the time, but I don't want to wish I had bought a bigger system when I move out into my own place. I have considered two systems and i'm worried about loosing sound if I go with the smaller system. Right now i'm running an Infinity system consisting of a Primus 250 (2) floor speakers, Primus C25 center, Primus 150 (2) bookshefl speakers and a PS8 Sub. When I talked to the guy at Best Buy he said that either of the two systems below would be quite different, but not in a bad or good way. You tell me what that means. I'm assuming that higher quality just equals overall improved sound. Best Buy only had the Mythos two's hooked up and a seven for the center and the gems as the rear. Bookshelfs won't work for me. I need either gems on stands or floors. Here are the two systems i've found that many authors have reviewed and Def Tech seems to like to pair up. I watch a crapload of movies and listen to classic rock (Led Zeppelin, ACDC, ZZ Top and new rock (Tool, Shinedown, Godsmack, Creed). The systems listed below are really maxing my budget out b/c I will be buying everything at once. Excluding the PS3 that I already have. Also those of you that run a PS3, can you tell a difference between it and a standard blu ray player.

Mythos Seven (center) -$400
Mythos GEM (satellites) -$1120
Mythos Supercube III -$700

Had considered using the GEM XL's up front and Gems in the back and using a Three for the center and the Supercube II as the sub. However the first system was what Def Tech sent Sound and Vision and Home Theater mag for testing. I know they are all matched voice coil and what not.

or

Mythos Four or Five -$1600
Mythos Gem -$560
Mythos Suber Cube II -$900
Mythos Three -$550

I guess my biggest worry is that with being used to floor speakers am I going to notice a big difference between floors and gems as my fronts. I really just don't want to spend the extra money for the Four or Five and not be able to tell a difference. I know my system now is an entry level multi speaker system as opposed to a HTIB, but Def Tech Mythos line is considerably higher quality and I just want to get the right stuff. I do still want your opinions, but I also had another possible solution. I had thought about the Def Tech surround bar 42 and the pro 800 sub until I move out and just getting a reciever that takes True HD, probably a Sony or the Onkyo TX-SR806B, I love Sony stuff, just not there speakers and i'm not sure about their recievers, Onkyo has better specs, but I have buddies who swear by Sony. Then I could use this for a bedroom set up when I move into my own house.
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post #189 of 5570 Old 02-18-2009, 06:32 AM
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Ok, I calibrated my setup again with the Three center. Previously, Audyssey set the Bose center crossover at 100 Hz. It set the Three to cross over at 90Hz, which is lower than the DefTech website suggests (100 Hz). I'll stick with 90 for a while and see how it goes.

It sounds good. Difference from the Bose center is subtle in the current setup - still using Bose 301s and surrounds. But dialog is clearer.
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post #190 of 5570 Old 02-18-2009, 11:45 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zach.riggs View Post

...I guess my biggest worry is that with being used to floor speakers am I going to notice a big difference between floors and gems as my fronts. I really just don't want to spend the extra money for the Four or Five and not be able to tell a difference...

Because the entire Mythos line is carefully voice matched, the differences between them tend to be rather subtle. Those with larger drivers will play a bit louder and fill larger spaces without strain, but in smaller rooms, their advantages will be less apparent. I'd guess the biggest difference you'd notice between your options is that the Four/Fives would have more precise imagining than the Gems, while the latter would have more of a room filling quality. Which sound is "better" depends on the individual. Try to listen to them both if you can.

I'm not sure you'd miss the floor standers in a blind test, but we don't listen that way, so there is a psychoacoustic aspect to consider. If you feel more comfortable with floor standing speakers, the Four/Fives may well be worth their added cost. However, the entire Mythos line (except the ST/STS) is designed to work with a subwoofer, so even the Four/Fives do not claim to be truly "full range" as most floor standing speakers do. On the other hand, they provide the aforementioned imaging and exceptionally smooth and balanced response over the range they are designed to handle, without the typical mid-bass "bump" so many other floor standers employ in an attempt to make them sound "larger."

If it were me, I'd probably seriously consider your alternate 1A. I prefer the Three and Supercube II, and like the future option of moving the Gem XL's to surrounds and the Gems to the rear of an excellent 7.1 system some day (perhaps adding Ones or even STS's up front), while still having a really fine sounding system that would be very well suited to your interim smaller quarters.

That said, all your options are good, and in the end you should choose the one with which you are most comfortable. Most people keep speakers for a long time, so it is worth spending a little more to get what you like.
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post #191 of 5570 Old 02-18-2009, 12:44 PM
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In a lot of comparison threads, and even in some of the DefTech threads, I've read a lot of opinions that for the money better subwoofers can be found than the SuperCube series. Perhaps if size is an overriding consideration, that might not be as easy to say. What are the opinions around this thread?

I have not heard any relevant subs first-hand. But based on research here and other sites, I plan on going with an SVS SB12plus... eventually. It's supposed to be a relatively compact sub that's great for music and pretty good for HT if you don't have a large room or don't need thundering deep base.
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post #192 of 5570 Old 02-18-2009, 02:23 PM
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Hi everyone just want to ask a quick question. Will the Mythos 10 be too much for the ProMonitor 1000s if i use Mythos 10 as center and ProMonitor 1000s as front L/R?
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post #193 of 5570 Old 02-18-2009, 06:43 PM
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Definitive Technology is unlike many other speaker companies that change out their drivers and tweeters as you move up the line. Definitive uses the same aluminum dome tweeter in all their speakers and the only difference in mid range drivers is the size. The biggest thing I notice on all the Mythos equipment (except the ST or STS) is that you need a good sub to fill the frequency range that they are lacking. Another thing to consider is that the SuperCube III with a 19X19 room is going to get a bit lost. I know you said that you will be living with your parents for a couple more years, but a little more room filling bass may be better in the long run. The Mythos Gem speakers have a wider sound field because of their opposing drivers, but if you compare the Mythos Gem speakers to the Pro monitor 1000 speakers the 1000’s have a much fuller sound for a lot less money, which you can put into a bigger sub(or bigger speakers altogether) . I even think the Definitive Pro-center 2000 sounds fuller than the Mythos three (just my opinion). If you open either the Mythos Gem cabinet, or the Pro-monitor 1000 they look exactly the same inside other than the mythos being constructed out of metal and the Pro-Monitor out of plastic. Some may say that the metal enclosures on the mythos line are better because they have less reverberation, but in this price range and all the different settings people put these in you would probably never know the difference. If you are going to mount the Mythos three center under the TV it may be a bit more aesthetically pleasing because it’s longer, but if you don’t care that much the Pro-Center 2000 would be great. The Mythos 4 and 5 are great speakers, but with the right sub the Gems and the Pro monitors sound exactly the same (so it’s back to aesthetics) I have done this demo a million times for people in our store and each time I tell people to close their eyes when I switch back and forth between the Mythos 5’s and a sub or the gem with a sub, or the pro mon with a sub

I am not very familiar with the Infinity line, but I just looked up the Primus 250 towers that you currently have. You will loose fullness that you are used to because it is a tower, but you will gain a ton in overall clarity if you go with the Gems or the pro monitors. One last thing you may want to consider to exceed the fullness of the towers you have now is to go with a BP7004 or a BP7002 tower. These already have very powerfull, but adjustable subs built in so you don’t need to get the SuperCube yet or ever. Then all you have to do is get a center and rears and you are done.

This is what I think for two different system options:

System 1
Pro Monitor 1000 pr in front
Pro Center 2000 center ( or the mythos three which is a little longer)
SuperCube II
==========================
System 2
BP7004 pr in front
Mythos 3 center (or you can still stick with the Pro Center 2000)
Pro Monitor 1000 pr for the rear.

Hopefully this Helps!

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post #194 of 5570 Old 02-18-2009, 06:50 PM
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Hi Bamboo,
The Mythos 10 will not be too much for your system at all in my opinion. The driver size on the Mythos 10 is the same as the the pro-monitor 1000's. The only difference is the passive radiating drivers on the Mythos 10 and a bit more bass response.

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post #195 of 5570 Old 02-18-2009, 07:07 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bamboo5354 View Post

Hi everyone just want to ask a quick question. Will the Mythos 10 be too much for the ProMonitor 1000s if i use Mythos 10 as center and ProMonitor 1000s as front L/R?

When my Mythos 8 center for my new system first arrived, I tested it by sticking it in my old ProMonitor system. I was surprised how well they sounded together.

Sure, the center stood out (given the different-sized, and more abundant drivers) but since roughly 50% of the sound in 5.1 is coming through the center, the differences in the fronts tended to fade into the background.

We talk all the time how nothing sounds as good as 3 front matched speakers for a seamless soundstage (and that IS true), but in the real world with imperfect rooms, imperfect ears, and kids running through the house--IMHO, the "mismatches" probably don't sound as eggregious as we sometimes believe. Of course, if you have a perfect room, perfect ears, and no kids, YMMV.

In summary, I think you would be wise to invest in a such a high quality center, with the notion that you may gradually replace your ProMonitor speakers with ones that match your Mythos 10 even closer as time and budget allows. In the meantime, I think you'll be pleased how things sound--won't be absolutely perfect, but I bet it won't sound bad by a longshot--in fact, it'll probably sound real good.

Just my two cents (Please don't flame me all you perfectionists out there!)
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post #196 of 5570 Old 02-18-2009, 07:47 PM
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Hey guys thanks for the quick replies, but i still have some questions in my mind. Why is the price on the Mythos ten cost more than twice compare to the ProCenter 2000 when they use the same tweeter and drivers? Does the bass radiators really make that much difference?
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post #197 of 5570 Old 02-19-2009, 07:05 AM
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The Mythos 10 speaker costs more due to the thick metal cabinet material and the passive radiating drivers, but that's about it (unfortunately). If I am not mistaken the crossovers are similar as well.

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post #198 of 5570 Old 02-19-2009, 08:52 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Axxis Audio John View Post

...Definitive uses the same aluminum dome tweeter in all their speakers and the only difference in mid range drivers is the size...

DefTech says they use an improved version of their tweeters and midranges in the ST, STS, Nine and Ten over those they use in the other Mythos speakers. They also say they have a revised midrange in those, and that the Gem XL mid is an upgrade from the superficially similar ones in the Three, et al.

I've never disassembled any of their speakers to test their veracity, but am inclined to take their word for it.
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post #199 of 5570 Old 02-19-2009, 11:06 AM
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Velodyne Subs are very nice too. Remote control, EQ control, auto-EQ, and small and loud! Specially their new Optimum series has volume level indicator in the front.

I want one so baaaaddd.

Quote:
Originally Posted by bigAWL View Post

In a lot of comparison threads, and even in some of the DefTech threads, I've read a lot of opinions that for the money better subwoofers can be found than the SuperCube series. Perhaps if size is an overriding consideration, that might not be as easy to say. What are the opinions around this thread?

I have not heard any relevant subs first-hand. But based on research here and other sites, I plan on going with an SVS SB12plus... eventually. It's supposed to be a relatively compact sub that's great for music and pretty good for HT if you don't have a large room or don't need thundering deep base.

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post #200 of 5570 Old 02-19-2009, 04:34 PM
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Can anyone comment on how well a pair of STS speakers perform on their own as subwoofers. I've read many positive reviews of their ability to eliminate the need for a separate sub but also that their low bass extension isn't the greatest. As I mentioned earlier, I'm planning a 6.1 setup in a small room (approx 12x14ft). I don't need ridiculous subwoofer power, since with kids, I will only be able to turn it up so loud (I plan to sound proof the room as much as possible, but realize I won't be able to completely eliminate sound from escaping). I would like, however, a system that can play deep, low bass since this room will be used primarily for home theater.
THanks again.
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post #201 of 5570 Old 02-19-2009, 04:58 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Redman77 View Post

Can anyone comment on how well a pair of STS speakers perform on their own as subwoofers. I've read many positive reviews of their ability to eliminate the need for a separate sub but also that their low bass extension isn't the greatest. As I mentioned earlier, I'm planning a 6.1 setup in a small room (approx 12x14ft). I don't need ridiculous subwoofer power, since with kids, I will only be able to turn it up so loud (I plan to sound proof the room as much as possible, but realize I won't be able to completely eliminate sound from escaping). I would like, however, a system that can play deep, low bass since this room will be used primarily for home theater.
THanks again.

Just my .02... but in that sized room, you are only physically able to reproduce certain frequencies.

But I think a good 10" sub will give you what you need with the STS's... you'll need one for the LFE for home theater, and you can't route the LFE into the STS's.
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post #202 of 5570 Old 02-19-2009, 04:58 PM
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I had a pair of STS without subs in a 11 x 17 room and it was more than adequate. Not earth shattering bass, but certainly clean and ample to fill the room. As a comparison I had a KEF PSW3500 subwoofer, and you could feel the air push out more and you could feel it more. You don't get that in your face experience, but is fast and very clean bass.
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post #203 of 5570 Old 02-19-2009, 05:37 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Redman77 View Post

Can anyone comment on how well a pair of STS speakers perform on their own as subwoofers. I've read many positive reviews of their ability to eliminate the need for a separate sub but also that their low bass extension isn't the greatest. As I mentioned earlier, I'm planning a 6.1 setup in a small room (approx 12x14ft). I don't need ridiculous subwoofer power, since with kids, I will only be able to turn it up so loud (I plan to sound proof the room as much as possible, but realize I won't be able to completely eliminate sound from escaping). I would like, however, a system that can play deep, low bass since this room will be used primarily for home theater.
THanks again.

It'll depend on your room and their placement to some degree, but my STS's more than hold their own against some respectable subs I've measured in my room (e.g. Hsu STF-1). In my 12x25 ft. room, the STS went deeper than the STF-1 as well as some other subs I've measured. (My STF-1 sounds quite impressive in the 14x14 ft room in which I use it, by the way.)

They won't keep up with the big boys, but I'd say they are as good or better than what most people use (AVS members excluded ). Their bass is very clean; they don't "thump" like many lesser subs, so may not seem as impressive at first hearing, but they are easy to live with.

If you are looking for the very deepest bass that you feel more than hear, you'll need a big separate sub. But that doesn't mean that the STS won't do a good job. There isn't as much below 30Hz in movies as most people think (and virtually no music below that level). Subs with no deeper response than the STS get glowing reviews.

I wouldn't want to be without my separate subs and recommend them to everyone, but the STS's are capable of providing an enjoyable HT experience, especially in a room the size of yours.
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post #204 of 5570 Old 02-19-2009, 05:43 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FilmMixer View Post

...you can't route the LFE into the STS's.

Yes you can. They have a separate LFE input, if you choose to use it.

You can get pretty much the same response with a conventional speaker wire connection by setting the R/L (STS) to Large and the sub to No/off in your AVR, which would redirect the LFE to the STS. Members here seem to prefer the latter.
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post #205 of 5570 Old 02-19-2009, 05:58 PM
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Originally Posted by Macfan424 View Post

Yes you can. They have a separate LFE input, if you choose to use it.

You can get pretty much the same response with a conventional speaker wire connection by setting the R/L (STS) to Large and the sub to No/off in your AVR, which would redirect the LFE to the STS. Members here seem to prefer the latter.

Thanks for the correction... I thought only the BP towers had inputs.
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post #206 of 5570 Old 02-19-2009, 07:10 PM
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Interesting comments by Axxis Audio John. Has anyone else done side by side comparisons of ProMonitor 1000 vs any of the Mythos? My Mythos dealer didn't carry both, but in separate auditions the Mythos always sound superior to me, particularly the Five's which I settled on.

But I'm not hard-headed, I would have rather gone with a smaller set of fronts but didn't like the off-axis firing nature of the Gem XL's and was convinced that the ProMonitor 1000's were inferior to the Mythos.

What do you guys think? With a great sub, am I just as well off with PM1000's than with Mythos Fives?
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post #207 of 5570 Old 02-19-2009, 07:13 PM
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Redman77,

I actually just got a pair of Mythos ST speakers to replace the Mythos one's that I had and I am running a SuperCube II subwoofer. When I got the ST's they had the equivalent of two of my subs and my little SuperCube got totally lost...I am thinking of upgrading to a SuperCubeI now so I can at least hear it ...My rep says that the bass response on the ST's is roughly equivalent to two 12" medium priced subs and the STS's sound similar to two 10" medium priced subs and I would have to agree...

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post #208 of 5570 Old 02-19-2009, 08:03 PM
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Hey guys,

after reading the last post by Macfan424 I am intrigued to see if the tweeter and mid range on the Mythos ST set are any different than the other speakers in the Mythos Line as far as the magnet size goes. I know the ST's and the new Mythos 9 do have different mid-range drivers that have an extruded plastic "wave guide" cone in the center as well as a rubber surround in the center. This is supposed to allow the mid-range driver to float a bit better from the center to the edges. I have also heard from a couple sources that the Bipolar towers in the BP line are going to get this new mid range driver in the near future. I will try and post photos of the interior of the ST's, the Mythos 3 and pro monitor 1000 speakers so you guys can see as well tomorrow if I get a chance to break away from work...

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Originally Posted by Axxis Audio John View Post

Hey guys,

after reading the last post by Macfan424 I am intrigued to see if the tweeter and mid range on the Mythos ST set are any different than the other speakers in the Mythos Line as far as the magnet size goes. I know the ST's and the new Mythos 9 do have different mid-range drivers that have an extruded plastic "wave guide" cone in the center as well as a rubber surround in the center. This is supposed to allow the mid-range driver to float a bit better from the center to the edges. I have also heard from a couple sources that the Bipolar towers in the BP line are going to get this new mid range driver in the near future. I will try and post photos of the interior of the ST's, the Mythos 3 and pro monitor 1000 speakers so you guys can see as well tomorrow if I get a chance to break away from work...

John, also curious on your thoughts on the StudioMonitor 450's. The Procinema thread has gone gaga over them. How do they compare to they Mythos line and PM1000's?
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post #210 of 5570 Old 02-19-2009, 08:41 PM
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The Mythos 10 speaker costs more due to the thick metal cabinet material and the passive radiating drivers, but that's about it (unfortunately). If I am not mistaken the crossovers are similar as well.

John you were right they both recommended to crossover at 60Hz at Definitive's website.
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