Definitive Technology Mythos Series Thread - Page 8 - AVS Forum
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post #211 of 5579 Old 02-20-2009, 07:29 AM
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Originally Posted by Axxis Audio John View Post

...I am intrigued to see if the tweeter and mid range on the Mythos ST set are any different than the other speakers in the Mythos Line as far as the magnet size goes...

FWIW, they are supposed to have a different magnet, not necessairly a larger one. The improvement that is most often mentioned is that the new tweeter is heat treated and ceramic coated, which supposedly gives it a smoother response.
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post #212 of 5579 Old 02-20-2009, 10:18 AM
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What type of separate sub would you have to attach to an Mythos STS setup to see an improvement? Would an SVS SB 12-Plus be an improvement or do you need to upgrade to a much larger sub such as an HSU VTF-3? Any recommendations would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks
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post #213 of 5579 Old 02-20-2009, 11:14 AM
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Originally Posted by akopperl View Post

What type of separate sub would you have to attach to an Mythos STS setup to see an improvement? Would an SVS SB 12-Plus be an improvement or do you need to upgrade to a much larger sub such as an HSU VTF-3? Any recommendations would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks

I have an SVS 16-46PC-Plus and a PB12-NSD, either one of which offer a major improvement (I use both in an unconventional arrangement). However, the SB12 isn't as powerful as either of those.

It's a very nice sub, though, and I suspect it would offer a noticeable improvement if it were properly placed in a small to medium room, but it can't deliver those infrasonic lows that many crave. For that, you should go with one of the big ones. (Laws of physics limit small subs, as a rule.)
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post #214 of 5579 Old 02-20-2009, 01:09 PM
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Originally Posted by Axxis Audio John View Post

I know I got off on a tangent there and your original question was the difference between the Studio Monitor 450's, the mythos line, and the Pro Monitor 1000's. There is no contest that the Studio Monitor 450's are superior bookshelf speakers to the Pro Monitor 1000's and the some of the Mythos line. I would love it if Definitive started adding powered woofers to some of their smaller Mythos towers and speakers because the sleek metal cabinets really hinder mid range response and cater more towards looks. (opinion of course)

Here's my concern on the SM450's and ANY standard bookshelves. Bookshelves which aren't voiced specifically to depend on a subwoofer typically have a mid-bass boost, which makes them sound fuller/deeper when standing alone. But this artificial enhancement can be hard to equalize out when a subwoofer is added.

My demo experiences with the Mythos Five's were fantastic for this very reason. Alone they sound thin because mid-bass isn't jacked up. But with the right sub and crossover they sing. My understanding is that the entire Mythos line is voiced to work seemlessly with a sub.

All that said, I'd rather us smaller speakers in front because I have bookshelf space available. The question is, can I get a better sound with a pair SM450's (or PM1000's) with my SVS PC12-NSD sub than I can with my (not yet arrived) Mythos Fives and same sub?
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post #215 of 5579 Old 02-20-2009, 01:31 PM
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Would you start a system with the ST's then build on it from there ( 80 % Movies & TV 20 % music ) or go with STS's with a CLR3000 and BPX1.2's ?

I listned to the ST's and enjoyed them alot...just dont know if I am gaining much by getting the ST's over the STS's... If I get the ST's I would start over and get a matching center and surrounds down the road...

If I continue to wait I can either have the STS's or BP7002's to go with the rest of my set up. I asked about the differences in the BP7002's and STS's in the other thread awhile back ( Definitive Owners ).... I thought I would see what the Mythos owners think. I have been waiting for a few months and just checking all the avenues before I make a final decision.

On the fence on what to do.....thanks for your opinions
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post #216 of 5579 Old 02-20-2009, 02:28 PM
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Originally Posted by hdg360 View Post

Would you start a system with the ST's then build on it from there ( 80 % Movies & TV 20 % music ) or go with STS's with a CLR3000 and BPX1.2's ?

I listned to the ST's and enjoyed them alot...just dont know if I am gaining much by getting the ST's over the STS's... If I get the ST's I would start over and get a matching center and surrounds down the road...

If I continue to wait I can either have the STS's or BP7002's to go with the rest of my set up. I asked about the differences in the BP7002's and STS's in the other thread awhile back ( Definitive Owners ).... I thought I would see what the Mythos owners think. I have been waiting for a few months and just checking all the avenues before I make a final decision.

On the fence on what to do.....thanks for your opinions

I think I was one of those who commented in the other thread, so I'll try not to be too repetitive.

My inclination would be to add the STS's to your present system, but that is based on my experience with the STS's in a medium sized space. I don't think I'd gain all that much with the ST's, but in a larger space it could be a different story.

It'd be hard to give up that flagship center speaker, too. You're not likely to find a "better" one. To me the only question is how well they'd blend. DefTech seems to think they would, but the only way to know for sure is to try them. (Horizontal speakers are never an exact sonic match to verticals, even if they employ identical drivers and crossovers.)

If it's the same situation I'm remembering, you have the option of trying out the STS's at home. I still think that's the best option.
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post #217 of 5579 Old 02-20-2009, 04:00 PM
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I'm looking at either a pair of STSs as fronts (without a separate sub) or a pair of ones with a separate sub (Budget constraints are precluding me from going with STSs plus separate sub at this point, although I could potentially add the sub later). SVS subs seem to get good reviews so I contacted SVS and they recommended the PB12-NSD for my small home theater room(12x14ft). But that sucker is pretty big and I don't think it will fit at the front of the room. I do, however, have a lot of room at the back of the room (either in one of the corners or behind the couch). My concern is that I will be able to localize the sub in its position at the back of the room. I've tried to read up on this and the general consensus seems to be at crossovers 80hz or lower, its not possible to localize the sub although some people seem to say you still may be able to. So, my question is this. If I go with a pair of ones as fronts (which have a 60hz suggested crossover) plus an SVS sub at the back of the room, would it be better to add a mythos ten center (suggested 60hz crossover) vs definitives suggestion of the eight as center (suggested 80hz crossover). This way, all speakers at the front of the room would have a 60hz crossover. Or, would the ten be too overpowering with the ones as fronts?
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post #218 of 5579 Old 02-20-2009, 04:51 PM
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Yep that you helped me in the other thread as well....I am driving myself crazy waiting this out... I was getting a little impatient about waiting another 6-7 weeks to try out the other option thats how I got onto the ST bandwagon. I just need to be patient and wait it out...I do think I will try the STS I did like the sound of ST's so time will telll....Thanks again
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post #219 of 5579 Old 02-21-2009, 09:06 AM
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Redman,
I actually had a pair of ones before I bought a pair of ST’s. The reason I decided to switch was because I could never seem to get my sub to blend into my towers. I took some BP7002’s over to my house to see if I wanted to go with those instead and loved the seamless low frequency transition, but they were far to big in my condo. The ST’s and STS’s cant be beat as far as low end is concerned and I think you would be happier with them in the long run especially because people typically have speakers for 10+ years. If you did decide to go with the ones instead I would get the Mythos 10 instead of the 8. The 10 is going to give you more mid range depth and would not be overpowering at all.

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post #220 of 5579 Old 02-21-2009, 10:33 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Redman77 View Post

I'm looking at either a pair of STSs as fronts (without a separate sub) or a pair of ones with a separate sub (Budget constraints are precluding me from going with STSs plus separate sub at this point, although I could potentially add the sub later). SVS subs seem to get good reviews so I contacted SVS and they recommended the PB12-NSD for my small home theater room(12x14ft). But that sucker is pretty big and I don't think it will fit at the front of the room. I do, however, have a lot of room at the back of the room (either in one of the corners or behind the couch). My concern is that I will be able to localize the sub in its position at the back of the room. I've tried to read up on this and the general consensus seems to be at crossovers 80hz or lower, its not possible to localize the sub although some people seem to say you still may be able to. So, my question is this. If I go with a pair of ones as fronts (which have a 60hz suggested crossover) plus an SVS sub at the back of the room, would it be better to add a mythos ten center (suggested 60hz crossover) vs definitives suggestion of the eight as center (suggested 80hz crossover). This way, all speakers at the front of the room would have a 60hz crossover. Or, would the ten be too overpowering with the ones as fronts?

Lots of people report good results with a sub in the back of their room. I've played around with listening to my PB12-NSD alone behind my listening position (I usually use it with a 16-46 PC-Plus up front), and, not unsurprisingly, did not find any localization. I always use a 80Hz crossover (THX choose it for a reason). The transients that give us aural clues to bass directionality tend to be above 100Hz even if the fundamental tone is much lower. Sometimes improper phase adjustment can create a directional effect, too, but the PB12-NSD lets you adjust phase.

Lower crossover points sound appealing to most of us, but they are not an unmixed blessing. One thing that is generally overlooked is that the way most AVR's work, choosing a lower crossover throws away that part of the LFE above the crossover. Technically, LFE goes up to 120 Hz, but in practice, it usually is limited to about 80Hz. Colin Miller and Brian Florian of "Secrets" published an interesting feature article sometime ago that explores subwoofer crossover issues. I won't try to paraphrase it all here, but it's worth reading if you are making decisions based on conventional wisdom in these forums.

Like Axxis Audio John, I too would suggest the STS. You may very well find the bass all you need in your room, but if not, you could add a sub later. (BTW, while I think the PB12-NSD is an excellent sub and the unsung best buy in the SVS line, it might be physically overwhelming in your room. Try making a cardboard mock up of it and placing it in your room before ordering.)

I also agree with Axxis Audio John that the Ten would not be overpowering, but I think the Eight would work well with the Ones as they were designed together and have the same drivers. (I'd consider the new Nines with the STS). I am less concerned about the matching crossover recommendations than most people (I admit to being something of an iconoclast, though ). It isn't like the "missing" frequencies are gone, it's just that there might be a mild dip in response. That is not a good thing, but room interactions cause even bigger irregularities, so it's not something to obsess over. My Three is supposed to be crossed at 100Hz, but I use 80Hz. I can nether hear nor measure (and I've tried) any loss. Is it ideal? No. Is there aural degradation? No, again. But rooms vary, so, as usual, YMMV.
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post #221 of 5579 Old 02-21-2009, 01:37 PM
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I just received a Mythos System (STS, Ten, GEMXL) and thus far I am very impressed - particularly with the STS speakers. However, I am having an issue with one of the STS speakers. I increased the sub level on the back to about 2 above the middle and the left channel started to make a rattling sound. I do not hear it from the right channel with the same settings. To be honest, the speaker still sounds good and you can't hear it from the seating position - but if you go to the side or behind the speaker - you can clearly hear it. The best way to explain it is a loud rattle. The higher I set the sub - the more noticeable it becomes. Does anyone else hear any type of noise from the cabinet? I am thinking I should return one of the STS speakers.
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post #222 of 5579 Old 02-21-2009, 02:42 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by akopperl View Post

I just received a Mythos System (STS, Ten, GEMXL) and thus far I am very impressed - particularly with the STS speakers. However, I am having an issue with one of the STS speakers. I increased the sub level on the back to about 2 above the middle and the left channel started to make a rattling sound. I do not hear it from the right channel with the same settings. To be honest, the speaker still sounds good and you can't hear it from the seating position - but if you go to the side or behind the speaker - you can clearly hear it. The best way to explain it is a loud rattle. The higher I set the sub - the more noticeable it becomes. Does anyone else hear any type of noise from the cabinet? I am thinking I should return one of the STS speakers.

I don't have mine turned up quite as far as you, but no, I've never heard anything like that. Any chance it is a sympathetic vibration affecting something nearby? Or the speaker rattling on the floor? If not, I'd exchange it.

By the way, congratulations on your new system.
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post #223 of 5579 Old 02-21-2009, 04:07 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by akopperl View Post

I just received a Mythos System (STS, Ten, GEMXL) and thus far I am very impressed - particularly with the STS speakers. However, I am having an issue with one of the STS speakers. I increased the sub level on the back to about 2 above the middle and the left channel started to make a rattling sound. I do not hear it from the right channel with the same settings. To be honest, the speaker still sounds good and you can't hear it from the seating position - but if you go to the side or behind the speaker - you can clearly hear it. The best way to explain it is a loud rattle. The higher I set the sub - the more noticeable it becomes. Does anyone else hear any type of noise from the cabinet? I am thinking I should return one of the STS speakers.

I agree with MacFan424-- one of the things I have liked about my Mythos speakers is that they are built like tanks--when you rap 'em with your knuckles they sound solid. Have you checked the screws under the grille?--perhaps a driver is not tightened down properly. If that's not it, and you're sure it's the speaker that is rattling, I'd exchange them for sure.



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post #224 of 5579 Old 02-21-2009, 04:19 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Redman77 View Post

I'm looking at either a pair of STSs as fronts (without a separate sub) or a pair of ones with a separate sub (Budget constraints are precluding me from going with STSs plus separate sub at this point, although I could potentially add the sub later). SVS subs seem to get good reviews so I contacted SVS and they recommended the PB12-NSD for my small home theater room(12x14ft). But that sucker is pretty big and I don't think it will fit at the front of the room. I do, however, have a lot of room at the back of the room (either in one of the corners or behind the couch). My concern is that I will be able to localize the sub in its position at the back of the room. I've tried to read up on this and the general consensus seems to be at crossovers 80hz or lower, its not possible to localize the sub although some people seem to say you still may be able to. So, my question is this. If I go with a pair of ones as fronts (which have a 60hz suggested crossover) plus an SVS sub at the back of the room, would it be better to add a mythos ten center (suggested 60hz crossover) vs definitives suggestion of the eight as center (suggested 80hz crossover). This way, all speakers at the front of the room would have a 60hz crossover. Or, would the ten be too overpowering with the ones as fronts?

Hi, Redman--I had to make the same choice you are considering. I ended up with Mythos One's fronts, Mythos 8 center, and 2 PC-12 Pluses as subs.

I think you'd be happy with either the 8 or the 10--the 3 also blends well with the Ones from every pro review I've read. I ended up choosing the 8 because it has the identical drivers as the One's (as the Def Tech Rep pointed out), and I put the saved money into the subs. Since I wanted to run the system at the THX crossover (80Hz) to let the subs' amps do the heavy lifting (thus freeing the speakers for the mid bass to treble regions), this decision works for me.

In terms of blending, a lot will depend on your sub placement and your room characteristics (probably more than the exact speakers themselves to be honest).

If floor space of the the PB line of SVS subs is an issue, you might give a look to the cylindrical line--they can fit into places the boxes can't, look cool (much better than the pics), and go low with authority.

Having said that, the STS's and ST's are great--I really don't think you can go wrong whatever you decide.

Good luck on your decision!



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post #225 of 5579 Old 02-21-2009, 06:15 PM
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For $870 a pair I ended up getting 2 Mythos 10 to use as front L/R (big thanks to Fanaticalism) with the ProCenter 2000 to use as the center(for now) and they blended together quite well.
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post #226 of 5579 Old 02-21-2009, 06:19 PM
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For $870 a pair I ended up getting 2 Mythos 10 to use as front L/R (big thanks to Fanaticalism) with the ProCenter 2000 to use as the center(for now) and they blended together quite well.



After the demo, I knew the outcome.
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post #227 of 5579 Old 02-21-2009, 08:11 PM
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Have you checked the screws under the grille?--perhaps a driver is not tightened down properly. If that's not it, and you're sure it's the speaker that is rattling, I'd exchange them for sure.

I just removed the grille and checked every screw. There were many that I was able to tighten a touch - making certain not to over tighten the screws. However, the problem persists. When the top passive radiator snaps back - there is a very load vibration/rattle from the cabinet just behind. The speaker is affixed to the base properly and level on the floor. It looks like I wil have to return the speaker - which is not an enviable task dealing with a speaker this size.

Thanks
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post #228 of 5579 Old 02-22-2009, 12:53 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by akopperl View Post

I just received a Mythos System (STS, Ten, GEMXL) and thus far I am very impressed - particularly with the STS speakers. However, I am having an issue with one of the STS speakers. I increased the sub level on the back to about 2 above the middle and the left channel started to make a rattling sound. I do not hear it from the right channel with the same settings. To be honest, the speaker still sounds good and you can't hear it from the seating position - but if you go to the side or behind the speaker - you can clearly hear it. The best way to explain it is a loud rattle. The higher I set the sub - the more noticeable it becomes. Does anyone else hear any type of noise from the cabinet? I am thinking I should return one of the STS speakers.

I had a similar experience....

I upgraded to a set of Mythos's a few days ago (STS, Three, and GEMXL). After setting up, running Audyssey, etc., I tuned to my favorite HD radio station to try things out. The STS's sounded great, but I noticed I wasn't hearing any bass from the left. I made sure it had power and the LFE connection was good. I then cranked up the sub level a bit and when I got to about 2 O'clock, the bass kicked in but was rattling and cutting out. It sounded like the sub was blown. After a not-so-quick trip back to Ultimate Electronics for an exchange, I hooked up the replacement STS and all was good.

I am very happy with my choice and thanks to all the posters in this thread that helped me make my decision! I have been using a separate powered sub for years and was worried about the STS's bass response, but I am thrilled with how tight and deep is sounds. Plus, the wife is happy to be rid of the "big ugly box" in the corner of the room. Now I just need to convince her that another $900 to replace the in-wall back surrounds with a couple of UIW BPZ/A's is all we need for sonic perfection
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post #229 of 5579 Old 02-22-2009, 02:13 PM
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The wife always has the last say....

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post #230 of 5579 Old 02-22-2009, 08:54 PM
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Thoughts on a Two/Three combo for front/center verses Five/Seven combo? I love the looks of the floorstanding Fives but am uncertain about the sound of the 3.5" drivers vs the 4.5"s in the Two's and Three's. My room is fairly large and open and a need a fairly "full" sound.

What's the better combo?
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post #231 of 5579 Old 02-23-2009, 04:33 AM
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Thoughts on a Two/Three combo for front/center verses Five/Seven combo? I love the looks of the floorstanding Fives but am uncertain about the sound of the 3.5" drivers vs the 4.5"s in the Two's and Three's. My room is fairly large and open and a need a fairly "full" sound.

What's the better combo?

Sorry I can't offer a comparison report, but if you want 4.5" drivers of the Twos with the look of the floor-standing Fives, my friend, look no further than the Mythos Fours. Budget be damned!
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post #232 of 5579 Old 02-23-2009, 04:59 PM
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Sorry I can't offer a comparison report, but if you want 4.5" drivers of the Twos with the look of the floor-standing Fives, my friend, look no further than the Mythos Fours. Budget be damned!

If only I had an unlimited budget!
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post #233 of 5579 Old 02-23-2009, 11:47 PM
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I just picked up 2 ST's, an 8 for center, and two GemXLs for my Marantz 7002.

The 8 was a great deal at $350, but I have to admit I'm wondering if the 10 isn't a better choice. Of course, at $899, thats $550 I can spend towards a sub. Thoughts?

The dealer also had 2 BP 1.2x ($100 each) that I was considering to complete a 7.1 setup. Would they go in back or the sides when competing with the 2 GemXLs?
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post #234 of 5579 Old 02-24-2009, 08:40 AM
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I just picked up 2 ST's, an 8 for center, and two GemXLs for my Marantz 7002.

The 8 was a great deal at $350, but I have to admit I'm wondering if the 10 isn't a better choice. Of course, at $899, thats $550 I can spend towards a sub. Thoughts?

The dealer also had 2 BP 1.2x ($100 each) that I was considering to complete a 7.1 setup. Would they go in back or the sides when competing with the 2 GemXLs?

Yes the 8 is a good deal, but if I were you I will get the 10 so I have no remorse later on. How much did you pay for the ST's?
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post #235 of 5579 Old 02-24-2009, 08:43 AM
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Congrats on the system!
I would use the BP1.2X speakers as your sides and the gemXL's for the rear. I personally like rear speakers in a surround sound system to be directional and side speakers to spread the sound around. The only reason that I would not suggest doing the Gem's in the rear is if you have an extremely strange configuration ie not rectangular.

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post #236 of 5579 Old 02-24-2009, 08:58 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bamboo5354 View Post

Yes the 8 is a good deal, but if I were you I will get the 10 so I have no remorse later on.

Congrats on a great system!

Bamboo hit it right on the head. Objectively, the 8 and 10 are going to sound very close to each other. You will be able to tell the difference in an A/B comparison situation, but in the middle of a showing of "The Dark Knight", I'd bet in a blinded, controlled setting, you wouldn't notice the difference much (if at all).

In fact, a system with an 8 with $550 towards a better sub (or subs) would likely sound much better than the same system with a 10 and a lesser sub.

However, you have to feel good about your system. If you are already feeling bad about your purchase, you might as well just get the 10 so you're happy. Buyer's regret is a drag (although when Def Tech comes out with the Mythos 11, you're going to be sad all over again! ) From your email, I suspect that the only way you are going to feel truly good with the 8 is to do your own in-home comparison.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Axxis Audio John View Post

I would use the BP1.2X speakers as your sides and the gemXL's for the rear. I personally like rear speakers in a surround sound system to be directional and side speakers to spread the sound around.

1+ I have mine set up this way (directionals in the back, bipolars on the side), per the THX recommendations for 7.1 material



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post #237 of 5579 Old 02-24-2009, 10:47 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mvp2005fan View Post

...Objectively, the 8 and 10 are going to sound very close to each other. You will be able to tell the difference in an A/B comparison situation, but in the middle of a showing of "The Dark Knight", I'd bet in a blinded, controlled setting, you wouldn't notice the difference much if at all.

In fact, an system with an 8 with $550 towards a better sub (or subs) would likely sound much better than the same system with a 10 with a lesser sub.

However, you have to feel good about your system. If you are already feeling bad about your purchase, you might as well just get the 10 so you're happy. Buyer's regret is a drag (although when Def Tech comes out with the Mythos 11, you're going to be sad all over again! ) From your email, I suspect that the only way you are going to feel truly good with the 8's is to do your own in-home comparison...

I agree with all of this.

I have a Three, and wish I had a Nine (which came out just after it was too late to return my Three ). Still, a Nine would have cost at least twice as much as my Three did, and would only be a subtle improvement that would be unnoticeable most of the time. It's more the principle of the thing than any audible gain, but the value of the "feel good" factor shouldn't be underestimated.

However, if budget is a factor, spending the money on a better sub will give you a more noticeable improvement and easily would be my choice.
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post #238 of 5579 Old 02-24-2009, 10:50 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by axxis audio john View Post

congrats on the system!
I would use the bp1.2x speakers as your sides and the gemxl's for the rear. I personally like rear speakers in a surround sound system to be directional and side speakers to spread the sound around...

Quote:
Originally Posted by mvp2005fan View Post

...1+ i have mine set up this way (directionals in the back, bipolars on the side), per the thx recommendations for 7.1 material

+2. My setup follows the THX recommendation too.
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post #239 of 5579 Old 02-24-2009, 12:40 PM
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i like the THX trailers

http://www.thx.com/cinema/trailers.html

All this noise about noise.
♪♫♪♫♪♫♪♫♪♫♪♫♪♫♪♫♪♫♪♫♪♫♪♫

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post #240 of 5579 Old 02-24-2009, 06:39 PM
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Hi Guys,

Well my order finally came in last week so this past weekend I set up my new Mythos and I am of course just blown away by them.

My decision was between the Mythos Two/Three/Gems and the Mythos Six/Seven/Gems but I went with the Twos for L/R and the Three for the center. It was in fact a little out of my price range but boy am I glad I spent the extra money because these are really great sounding speakers.

Anyway, thank you all on these boards for your help and opinions, especially mvp2005fan. I am extremely happy right now!
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