**Official EMP Owner's Thread** - Page 109 - AVS | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #3241 of 4776 Old 05-13-2014, 10:28 AM
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Thanks for the help with the trouble shooting, guys. Brian from EMP thinks Oblivion might just be a very bass heavy track that is causing some cabinet resonance when the bass hits a certain low at high enough SPL. It is certainly true if I back down the sub a bit (below the levels that YPAO finds for it), the crackling sound dissapears.

I really hope this isn't the answer, as I really like that sub...but I also need a sub that can handle all movies. Maybe expecting a dual 10 inch sub to provide enough LFE for a 14 x22 foot room is the problem!

btw, Brian set me straight on one thing. I was told that the 10i10i was one active and one passive woofer, but it is not. Both woofers are active and wired in a parellel.
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post #3242 of 4776 Old 05-13-2014, 10:33 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sabin057 View Post

Hi guys,

Any recommendations on a mount for the E5Bi's besides the cheap plastic one from monoprice and the Onmimount 10? Both seem unreliable and I'd like to stay away from spending $79 on the EMP Tek ones. I need to install on the back wall and turn 80 degrees (to my listening position). Thanks

The Omni-mount is a good option, why are you against it? Anything that supports keyholes and can 7.5lbs should work fine.

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post #3243 of 4776 Old 05-13-2014, 10:42 AM
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Originally Posted by Transmaniacon View Post

The Omni-mount is a good option, why are you against it? Anything that supports keyholes and can 7.5lbs should work fine.

Thanks for the response. I don't have anything against it per se, but alot of the reviews on amazon say it sags in the 8-10lb region. The positive reviews either do not mention speaker weight, or they are speakers in the 3-4lb region. Lastly, the plastic ball that you clamp on seems to only hold the tilt of the speaker if you tighten it to the point of digging rivets into it. I can see this being problematic if i want to fine-tune or change things up.

Other options that I've seen either appear to be shoddy, or expensive. Just thought this would be the best place to ask from people who would have first hand experience.

Sabin

ÂIt's the job that's never started as takes longest to finish. ― J.R.R. Tolkien, The Lord of the Rings
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post #3244 of 4776 Old 05-13-2014, 11:14 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sabin057 View Post

Thanks for the response. I don't have anything against it per se, but alot of the reviews on amazon say it sags in the 8-10lb region. The positive reviews either do not mention speaker weight, or they are speakers in the 3-4lb region. Lastly, the plastic ball that you clamp on seems to only hold the tilt of the speaker if you tighten it to the point of digging rivets into it. I can see this being problematic if i want to fine-tune or change things up.

Other options that I've seen either appear to be shoddy, or expensive. Just thought this would be the best place to ask from people who would have first hand experience.

Sabin

They make a bigger version, the 20, but I am not sure if it's out yet. This is a good place with a nice selection of mounts: http://www.standsandmounts.com/wallmounts.aspx

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post #3245 of 4776 Old 05-13-2014, 11:45 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Elihawk View Post

Thanks for the help with the trouble shooting, guys. Brian from EMP thinks Oblivion might just be a very bass heavy track that is causing some cabinet resonance when the bass hits a certain low at high enough SPL. It is certainly true if I back down the sub a bit (below the levels that YPAO finds for it), the crackling sound dissapears.

I really hope this isn't the answer, as I really like that sub...but I also need a sub that can handle all movies. Maybe expecting a dual 10 inch sub to provide enough LFE for a 14 x22 foot room is the problem!

btw, Brian set me straight on one thing. I was told that the 10i10i was one active and one passive woofer, but it is not. Both woofers are active and wired in a parellel.

I've seen that movie and don't remember any noise, but I also run 2 of the e1010i's. My space is larger though. Where is your gain set, what's your crossover point and what volume level on your AVR are you at when this noise happens? Also, have you tried to take each driver out of the cabinet and run a sweep that runs from 100hz to 20hz (or lower)? If you don't hear the noise then you know it's something in the enclosure or the enclosure itself. With the sound disappearing when volume is slightly lowered makes me thinks you're at the limits of the driver. Doesn't surprise me though. That's a large room and if you're asking for a lot of volume then you're going to need more sub.

I have an issue with one of mine, but I'm going to try and fix it myself as I know what it is. Where the front face-plate on the e1010i meets the wall there is air coming out during heavy passages. I can feel and hear the air coming from a spot that's about 1-1.5" long, but I believe I can take out the top driver and get some caulking in there to seal it up.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sabin057 View Post

Thanks for the response. I don't have anything against it per se, but alot of the reviews on amazon say it sags in the 8-10lb region. The positive reviews either do not mention speaker weight, or they are speakers in the 3-4lb region. Lastly, the plastic ball that you clamp on seems to only hold the tilt of the speaker if you tighten it to the point of digging rivets into it. I can see this being problematic if i want to fine-tune or change things up.

Other options that I've seen either appear to be shoddy, or expensive. Just thought this would be the best place to ask from people who would have first hand experience.

Sabin

Pinpoint AM24 (black or white)
http://www.amazon.com/Pinpoint-Mounts-AM24-Black-Universal-Theater/dp/B003ILYJVY

This is what I run and they work great

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post #3246 of 4776 Old 05-13-2014, 12:40 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Elihawk View Post

Thanks for the help with the trouble shooting, guys. Brian from EMP thinks Oblivion might just be a very bass heavy track that is causing some cabinet resonance when the bass hits a certain low at high enough SPL. It is certainly true if I back down the sub a bit (below the levels that YPAO finds for it), the crackling sound dissapears.

I really hope this isn't the answer, as I really like that sub...but I also need a sub that can handle all movies. Maybe expecting a dual 10 inch sub to provide enough LFE for a 14 x22 foot room is the problem!

btw, Brian set me straight on one thing. I was told that the 10i10i was one active and one passive woofer, but it is not. Both woofers are active and wired in a parellel.

I agree with you, thats a lot of volume to pressurize with two sealed tens. A properly designed sealed sub should not make mechanical noise though reguardless of input signal. The amp is supposed to limit the driver to protect against thermal damage and the enclosure should protect against mechanical. This is why I believe your hard clipping the amp. When I had a Hsu it made those cracking sounds when I really hammered it with bass heavy movies and it was just the limiter on the amp.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ousooner2 View Post


run a sweep that runs from 100hz to 20hz

I recommend keeping tones/sweeps in the lower frequencies(20-40Hz). At 80-100Hz the cone is barely moving providing little to no cooling to the voice coils. Think toaster coils for voice coils. Low frequencies cause excursion which cools the coils and impedance rises typically as you go lower in frequency so less power is going through the coil.
Quote:
I have an issue with one of mine, but I'm going to try and fix it myself as I know what it is. Where the front face-plate on the e1010i meets the wall there is air coming out during heavy passages. I can feel and hear the air coming from a spot that's about 1-1.5" long, but I believe I can take out the top driver and get some caulking in there to seal it up.

This is a great idea. Sealed subs should be completely air tight. If your leaking, your not protecting the drivers with the air spring effect and losing performance too. There is this stuff some of us DIYers use to seal drivers which is pretty nice. Its in the electrical section at Lowes etc and is like play dough. You roll it into long strings and seal the drivers in with it. It never cures or sets up and is pliable and maintains seal for a very long time. Long after foam and other stuff is leaking.

Another thing you guys can do is if the sub isn't stuffed with polyfill. Add 1.0lb of poly per cubic foot of volume. This will tighten up the sound and maybe get you a few extra Hz of extension.
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post #3247 of 4776 Old 05-13-2014, 02:15 PM
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Crossover is set at 80 hz, gain is set to about ~2/3 full and phase is set to 90 degree. Ran YPAO when I set up and often listen at -15--17 dBs.
I am going to run a couple scenes from Battle for Los Angeles tonight...I know those scenes DON'T cause a rattle (or didn't a couple weeks ago), but are very dynamic...and see if this rattle is something new, or just specific to Oblivion...

Set up #1: EMP e5ti, e5Ci, and EMP e5Bi surrounds, Outlaw LFM1 Plus sub, EMP 10i10i sub
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post #3248 of 4776 Old 05-13-2014, 02:36 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nick****achi View Post

I agree with you, thats a lot of volume to pressurize with two sealed tens. A properly designed sealed sub should not make mechanical noise though reguardless of input signal. The amp is supposed to limit the driver to protect against thermal damage and the enclosure should protect against mechanical. This is why I believe your hard clipping the amp. When I had a Hsu it made those cracking sounds when I really hammered it with bass heavy movies and it was just the limiter on the amp.
I recommend keeping tones/sweeps in the lower frequencies(20-40Hz). At 80-100Hz the cone is barely moving providing little to no cooling to the voice coils. Think toaster coils for voice coils. Low frequencies cause excursion which cools the coils and impedance rises typically as you go lower in frequency so less power is going through the coil.
This is a great idea. Sealed subs should be completely air tight. If your leaking, your not protecting the drivers with the air spring effect and losing performance too. There is this stuff some of us DIYers use to seal drivers which is pretty nice. Its in the electrical section at Lowes etc and is like play dough. You roll it into long strings and seal the drivers in with it. It never cures or sets up and is pliable and maintains seal for a very long time. Long after foam and other stuff is leaking.

Another thing you guys can do is if the sub isn't stuffed with polyfill. Add 1.0lb of poly per cubic foot of volume. This will tighten up the sound and maybe get you a few extra Hz of extension.

EMP's subs are ported

Either way, noise shouldn't be heard. Either it's the driver hitting it's mechanical limits at xmech or, hopefully, a limiter in the amp. I just mentioned running it up into the 100hz-ish range as resonances can reside there. That could be where he's got an issue. I wouldn't suggest running high volume sweeps for an extended period of time though. Stop and come back if you don't hear the issue after a few try's

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post #3249 of 4776 Old 05-13-2014, 04:43 PM - Thread Starter
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^Agreed. I wasnt aware it was ported but never really researched it either.....

Since its ported(which i didnt know) it could also be port chuffing.
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post #3250 of 4776 Old 05-14-2014, 04:38 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Elihawk View Post

Crossover is set at 80 hz, gain is set to about ~2/3 full and phase is set to 90 degree. Ran YPAO when I set up and often listen at -15--17 dBs.
I am going to run a couple scenes from Battle for Los Angeles tonight...I know those scenes DON'T cause a rattle (or didn't a couple weeks ago), but are very dynamic...and see if this rattle is something new, or just specific to Oblivion...

2/3 gain is on the high side in my opinion, I would have to agree you are probably asking a bit much from that sub. SQ is definitely the priority over output with EMP subs, perhaps try corner loading it to gain some extra output.
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post #3251 of 4776 Old 05-14-2014, 05:27 AM
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Originally Posted by Transmaniacon View Post

2/3 gain is on the high side in my opinion, I would have to agree you are probably asking a bit much from that sub. SQ is definitely the priority over output with EMP subs, perhaps try corner loading it to gain some extra output.

+1. Indeed. I'm not sure that it would matter meaningfully but I would try moving the volume down to less than 1/2 and then running room calibration again. What that would do is send higher voltage from the AVR to the sub and allow the amp in the sub to operate at a lower voltage. It won't cost anything to try it.
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post #3252 of 4776 Old 05-14-2014, 05:40 AM
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Originally Posted by Elihawk View Post

Didn';t have much time to look over the subwoofer last night...however, put in a movie with decent dynamic content (2012) and heard the rattle only two times. During Oblivion, you will hear it a couple times every scene. Brought Oblivion upstairs and tested out my Klipsch Rw12D and no rattling noise, but again I like the sound of the EMP sub sans the rattle much better!. The Subwoofer moves in and out smoothly when maunally pushed and there is no burnt electrical smell (suggestions to check for from Brian at EMP). Tonight I will have to take the woofer out and see if there is something loose rattling around behind...

If it is something vibrating in the sub, check to make sure the wires are not bouncing around inside. Also, make sure the drivers are not loose. If you are bottoming out your driver you will hear a popping noise. It is very distinct and not a rattle noise. Also, if you have the amp gain turned too high and there are some ULF sent to the LFE channel, you could be clipping the amp. Clipping the amp can sound like a mechanical failure in the driver such as rattling. Set the sub trim to where when you run YPAO you get your bass trim set to 0 or below. Try to not have it as a positive number so that if you want to run it a little bit hot on the avr trim, you will not risk clipping the signal.
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post #3253 of 4776 Old 05-14-2014, 06:39 PM
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Someone posted here I could pickup some type of liquid cement at Lowe's or Home depot? It's to repair the rubber surround that my cats put their paws through. I went there and they had no clue what I was talking about. Like a liquid electrical tape of some sort?
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post #3254 of 4776 Old 05-15-2014, 05:00 AM - Thread Starter
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Someone posted here I could pickup some type of liquid cement at Lowe's or Home depot? It's to repair the rubber surround that my cats put their paws through. I went there and they had no clue what I was talking about. Like a liquid electrical tape of some sort?

Lowes should have this...


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post #3255 of 4776 Old 05-15-2014, 05:52 AM
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Subwoofer update: Turned the gain, or volume down to 50%, reran YPAO and watched Battle fo LA, a very dynamic soundtrack. I now think the subwoofer is fine and I was either causing some cabinet resonance, like Brian suggested or causing some clipping, as some of you suggested. Funny thing, about 50% of the time I run YPAO, it defines my subwoofer as "out of phase"...and then I run it again and it doesn't!

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post #3256 of 4776 Old 05-15-2014, 05:59 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Elihawk View Post

Subwoofer update: Turned the gain, or volume down to 50%, reran YPAO and watched Battle fo LA, a very dynamic soundtrack. I now think the subwoofer is fine and I was either causing some cabinet resonance, like Brian suggested or causing some clipping, as some of you suggested. Funny thing, about 50% of the time I run YPAO, it defines my subwoofer as "out of phase"...and then I run it again and it doesn't!

Glad you got that worked out. Does the sub have the same output as before after rerunning YPAO and then setting the trim levels? If so, it was a clipping issue and not the cabinet resonance idea. I doubt that would be an issue unless it was about to fall apart which I seriously doubt.
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post #3257 of 4776 Old 05-15-2014, 07:45 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by Elihawk View Post

Funny thing, about 50% of the time I run YPAO, it defines my subwoofer as "out of phase"...and then I run it again and it doesn't!

Forget about sub phase. IOW don't worry about it. Autocorrection software rarely does better than mediocre integrating subs and mains. This just means you probably have some modal/integration issues through the crossover region but so does every body else with only one sub in the room.

Unless you can measure your response with something like REW or other that takes time domain measurements its really hard to tell what that is going on...
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post #3258 of 4776 Old 05-15-2014, 08:01 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Elihawk View Post

Subwoofer update: Turned the gain, or volume down to 50%, reran YPAO and watched Battle fo LA, a very dynamic soundtrack. I now think the subwoofer is fine and I was either causing some cabinet resonance, like Brian suggested or causing some clipping, as some of you suggested. Funny thing, about 50% of the time I run YPAO, it defines my subwoofer as "out of phase"...and then I run it again and it doesn't!

Good to hear!

Gain is not volume. Don't think of it like that lol. That's how things like your situation happen. It's there to match the input voltage as to not clip the signal..in short.
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Forget about sub phase. IOW don't worry about it. Autocorrection software rarely does better than mediocre integrating subs and mains. This just means you probably have some modal/integration issues through the crossover region but so does every body else with only one sub in the room.

Unless you can measure your response with something like REW or other that takes time domain measurements its really hard to tell what that is going on...

Exactly. The length of the soundwave in these subwoofer frequencies are VERY long. If you have an SPL meter then you can play with phase (or distance in the AVR...same thing) and adjust it until you find the loudest SPL measurement. That is the most 'in-phase' you're going to get. Of course, this is just at one frequency. In phase at the crossover point isn't in phase at 30hz or 40hz or whatever. I always like to make sure the phasing is somewhat close to matching at the x-over point and then run EQ.

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post #3259 of 4776 Old 05-18-2014, 04:44 PM
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Lowes should have this...


images?q=tbn:ANd9GcTLC6FsrmepocemivhMkOKCwLp9uMeeijdta2Zzz5tpcg_RhPYr

Thank You very much!
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post #3260 of 4776 Old 05-24-2014, 05:44 PM
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I'm a little surprised that there isn't an EMP memorial day sale.

Also anyone else notice the e41's have been discontinued?

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post #3261 of 4776 Old 05-24-2014, 09:41 PM
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Hello all,

 

Need some advice from existing Emp tek owners.  I want to pair E5bi's with one of their Emp's center channels. Looking at the specs, it seems that the E5Ci would be a better match, however I am planning to move out to a bigger house in the next year where I will want to get E55Ti towers at that time.   For the E55Ti's, The E56Ci seems to be a logical match.    I would much rather just get the E56Ci center right now with the E5Bi's as LR for the time being until next years upgrade to the towers.

 

My concern is pairing the E5Bi's Left +Right with the larger E56Ci channel.  Do any of you have this combination ?  Should I be concerned that the large center will overpower the bookshelves ?

 

Fyi, i have a yammie aventage rx-a820 that will be driving this setup.

My current room is quite small (10`x13` x 7 foot ceilings (basement))

 

Thanks in advance for any guidance!

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post #3262 of 4776 Old 05-24-2014, 10:03 PM
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Not sure you're going to have proper Timbre matching, but if I knew I was going to get the towers a year later I likely would do the same thing.

My biggest concern would be the center being overwhelming. But you could always back if off a little bit to make sure you have a good mix.

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post #3263 of 4776 Old 05-25-2014, 09:42 AM
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Hello all,

Need some advice from existing Emp tek owners.  I want to pair E5bi's with one of their Emp's center channels. Looking at the specs, it seems that the E5Ci would be a better match, however I am planning to move out to a bigger house in the next year where I will want to get E55Ti towers at that time.   For the E55Ti's, The E56Ci seems to be a logical match.    I would much rather just get the E56Ci center right now with the E5Bi's as LR for the time being until next years upgrade to the towers.

My concern is pairing the E5Bi's Left +Right with the larger E56Ci channel.  Do any of you have this combination ?  Should I be concerned that the large center will overpower the bookshelves ?

Fyi, i have a yammie aventage rx-a820 that will be driving this setup.
My current room is quite small (10`x13` x 7 foot ceilings (basement))

Thanks in advance for any guidance!

No point in buying something you intend to replace in a year. In my view, the center channels aren't really very well timbre matched to the towers - at least the small one that I use isn't. I'm thinking of going back to my old VMPS center channel. If you really want good timbre matching, dump the center channel entirely, sit between the mains and use a phantom center. Don't worry about speakers overpowering each other. The room calibration software takes care of all of that.
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post #3264 of 4776 Old 05-25-2014, 03:15 PM
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The plan for me has been to pick up 2 sets of the e55wi's sometime later this year. Kicking around the idea of doing a pair now and then a second pair later this year. Once done I will have a complete EMP system (except for the sub). I would love to hear people's impressions of the e55's. I've never had bipole speakers before so I'm hopeful these give me a better surround experience. Right now my surrounds (see my signature of youre curious what I've got) are e easily the weakest link in the chain.

But yeah, any review from people using the e55's would be awesome.

AVR: Denon 2112
Speakers: EMP Tek e55ti, Center- EMP Tek e56ci, Side Surrounds- EMP Tek e55wi, Rear Surrounds- SVS Prime Satellites, Sub- SVS PC12 Plus
Display: BenQ w1070 on a 92in fixed screen
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post #3265 of 4776 Old 05-30-2014, 03:31 PM
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Posted many times about this and I'll post again cause I love my E55wi's! Brian really pushed me towards these instead of the E55bi's. Never regret that decision for its now been over 2 years. Bipole design to me really makes a difference than the standard bookshelf design. You cannot pinpoint from the rear and even sides as to where the sounds coming from which I decided not to go with side surrounds.
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post #3266 of 4776 Old 05-30-2014, 06:07 PM
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I'm shooting to have 2 pairs by the end of the year. Currently I'm thinking I'll get one in June and one in November.

AVR: Denon 2112
Speakers: EMP Tek e55ti, Center- EMP Tek e56ci, Side Surrounds- EMP Tek e55wi, Rear Surrounds- SVS Prime Satellites, Sub- SVS PC12 Plus
Display: BenQ w1070 on a 92in fixed screen
Blu-Ray Player: Sony BDP S6200;
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post #3267 of 4776 Old 06-04-2014, 01:19 PM
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Update on an E5Bi / E5Ci system: I ended up going with Sanus NF30 speaker stands for the rears. The regular plates were a little small, but the package included some plates with wider fronts that tapered toward the rears, and the E5Bi's are pretty stable on them.

I also JUST replaced my Klipsch Sub-10 with dual SVS PB12-NSD subwoofers. I never realized how much the Klipsch was somewhat drowning out these speakers with its less-than-awesome bass, but after getting the PB12's level matched and rerunning YPAO ... WOW. My wife and I are noticing things in movies that we didn't before ... background music, other background noises, etc. Concert blurays sound almost just as if we were standing in the front row.

I did notice when running the YPAO that the E5Ci has a bit of a deeper tone to it, likely stemming from the fact that it's a rear-ported speaker sitting inside my tv stand. That's really the only place to put it unless we mounted the tv, and frankly I don't want to do that. It still sounds excellent and I can't really tell during movies/tv, but I definitely noticed it in the setup process.

I previously said the E5Bi's were just fine as mains in a 5.1 and I'll stand by that statement now. For the price of $225/pair, I just don't see how you could do any better in small or mid-sized rooms (ours is 13x14x7, a little under 1300 cubic feet). I also have no hesitation suggesting the E5Ci to pair with the E5Bi's in a 5.1 system. Obviously as mentioned elsewhere, you might want to step up to the E56 with the towers, but for the bookshelves, the E5Ci will do just fine.
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post #3268 of 4776 Old 06-05-2014, 04:16 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Xonim View Post


I previously said the E5Bi's were just fine as mains in a 5.1 and I'll stand by that statement now. For the price of $225/pair, I just don't see how you could do any better in small or mid-sized rooms (ours is 13x14x7, a little under 1300 cubic feet). I also have no hesitation suggesting the E5Ci to pair with the E5Bi's in a 5.1 system. Obviously as mentioned elsewhere, you might want to step up to the E56 with the towers, but for the bookshelves, the E5Ci will do just fine.

Believe me, you can do better but probably not for $225 per pair. Glad you like the system. That's what matters.
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post #3269 of 4776 Old 06-05-2014, 10:59 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FMW View Post

Believe me, you can do better but probably not for $225 per pair. Glad you like the system. That's what matters.

That's what I was getting at (the price point). Poor wording on my part!
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post #3270 of 4776 Old 06-05-2014, 11:27 AM
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i think that sentiment summarizes the entire EMPtek line...except for the occassional super low close-out prices you can get (like recently for the MB Quarts, etc)...the EMPs are amongst the best bang-for-the-buck speakers! As Stereophile review said, "the drivers along are worth the price!" and man, these speakers look great!

Set up #1: EMP e5ti, e5Ci, and EMP e5Bi surrounds, Outlaw LFM1 Plus sub, EMP 10i10i sub
Set up #2: Def Tech SM450, CLR2002, SLS Qline surrounds and Klipsch 12wD sub
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Emp , Emp Tek , Emp Tek E10s Subwoofer , Emp Tek Ef30c Center Speaker , Emp Tek Ef30t Tower Speakers , Emp Tek E55tir Tower Speakers , Emp Tek Ef30 Bookshelf Speakers , Speaker Systems

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