**Official EMP Owner's Thread** - Page 115 - AVS Forum
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post #3421 of 3427 Old 09-14-2014, 12:37 PM
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Originally Posted by jasammeg View Post
I'm thinking of getting the e55ti towers or the Svs ultra towers.I will be adding a svs sub if i get e55ti.My question is will the e55 sound be comparable with a sub.I'm really interested in the e55,.Any advice is most appreciated.
Here you go that should answer your question

http://forums.audioholics.com/forums...lharmonic.html
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post #3422 of 3427 Old 09-14-2014, 01:30 PM
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Originally Posted by SirDracula View Post
Talked to Brian and he's sending me a new set of outriggers and feet/nuts.

And I hooked up the speakers to the AVR but haven't done any Audyssey setup yet as the room doesn't yet have all the furniture or the carpet, art on the walls, etc. So it had a bit of echo/hollow sound. I'd like to break in the speakers a bit anyway before I do any Audyssey setup, though I'm not sure it really matters for this purpose.

I have not hooked up the HSU STF-2 sub yet. The speakers are configured as Large in the AVR, no sub. There is bass but it sounds a bit boomy to me. Could be because of the room though or because the speakers are placed only about 8" from the wall while the manual suggests 15".

Anyway, if I want to hook up the sub which I have to try anyway to make sure it actually works (kinda bought it blindly on Craigslist), how should I configure the AVR?
- Large or Small speakers?
- LFE only or LFE+Main if I configure the speakers as Large?
- What's a good crossover to start with? 80Hz?
- Is the sub volume in the middle reasonable or lower?

Again I do not want to spend the time to run Audyssey just yet, just some simple basic setup for the next couple of weeks until the speakers break in some.
A room with no furniture, carpet, nothing on the walls, etc will create problems for any speaker. I wouldn't judge speakers costing 100x as much as these EMP's in a room like that


- Large or Small speakers?
* Some people have used them set to large w/ a sub, but I set them to small with a sub crossed at 80hz (wish AVR's would give you more frequencies to cross at than just the typical 40,60,80,90, etc)

- LFE only or LFE+Main if I configure the speakers as Large?
*LARGE - speaker plays full range signal
SMALL - speaker only plays signal above it's crossover setting

LFE = sub only plays LFE signal and from speakers set to SMALL below their crossover
LFE+MAIN = only applies when front main speakers set to LARGE. In addition to what the LFE setting does, the sub also plays the frequencies below the front main crossover setting (while front mains play full range signal). This setting is known as the "double bass" setting as the front main low bass frequencies are being played by both the front main speakers and the sub as well.

However, when using a sub, you should set all speakers (regardless of physical size or mfr recommendation) to SMALL with a minimum of 80hz crossovers. Doing so it doesn't matter what the sub setting is LFE or LFE+Main , the result is the same.


- What's a good crossover to start with? 80Hz?
* 80hz is generally considered a good point to start. Sadly, like I mentioned above, there isn't many points to set a crossover in most AVR's. It's usually 40hz/60hz/80hz/90hz/100hz/etc. 80hz is most recommended because:

1. top end falls off in most HT subs (ported at pretty low tuning frequency)
2. Resonance can be heard higher up
3. Being able to locate the sub becomes easier the higher the x-over point

There's others..and each or all of these don't apply to every sub


- Is the sub volume in the middle reasonable or lower?
* What do you mean 'in the middle or lower'? Are you talking about the gain knob on the back? Technically that's not a 'volume' knob, but what you'll want to do is to run your room correction (just do it once..aka one mic position) until you get it to come back and say the sub is within a range of -3dB to +3dB. Anything negative (-XdB) means the the AVR is trying to cut the signal to the sub -xdB since the gain knob on the back is too high. Anything positive (+XdB) means the AVR is trying to send more voltage to sub to offset the gain on the back of the sub being too low.

It's been found that most room corrections can be funky with the sub when the range is outside of that -3 to +3 range so it's best to try to get inside that
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post #3423 of 3427 Old 09-14-2014, 01:42 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jasammeg View Post
I'm thinking of getting the e55ti towers or the Svs ultra towers.I will be adding a svs sub if i get e55ti.My question is will the e55 sound be comparable with a sub.I'm really interested in the e55,.Any advice is most appreciated.
I've had both of these speakers in my house. In my opinion:

- the e55Tis are a bit more neutral / accurate throughout the midrange and lower treble IMO. The SVSes have an upper mid response dip that can be more pleasing on some source material and more "colored"-sounding on others.

- the Ultra towers do have cleaner highs and can handle higher sustained SPLs. They also have much better cabinets in my opinion.

- the midbass on the ultra towers is a bit more punchy, the e55Tis a bit more dry. Even with a subwoofer, you will hear a difference. I can't say which you will prefer. I prefer the more dry bass + sub.

- I would not forgo true subwoofers for deeper extension from mains. But the 4X eight-inch vented woofers on the SVS towers will produce deep, powerful bass. You will need at least a pair of 12" quality subwoofers to match that.
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post #3424 of 3427 Old 09-14-2014, 02:11 PM
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Originally Posted by Eternal Velocity View Post
I've had both of these speakers in my house. In my opinion:

- the e55Tis are a bit more neutral / accurate throughout the midrange and lower treble IMO. The SVSes have an upper mid response dip that can be more pleasing on some source material and more "colored"-sounding on others.

- the Ultra towers do have cleaner highs and can handle higher sustained SPLs. They also have much better cabinets in my opinion.

- the midbass on the ultra towers is a bit more punchy, the e55Tis a bit more dry. Even with a subwoofer, you will hear a difference. I can't say which you will prefer. I prefer the more dry bass + sub.

- I would not forgo true subwoofers for deeper extension from mains. But the 4X eight-inch vented woofers on the SVS towers will produce deep, powerful bass. You will need at least a pair of 12" quality subwoofers to match that.
I will be powering the e55ti with a emotiva upa200.Do you i will get a good spl levels for movies with the e55ti.My ht room is about 16x12.I just want to make sure they can get loud enough to really enjoy movies.
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post #3425 of 3427 Old 09-14-2014, 03:44 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jasammeg View Post
I will be powering the e55ti with a emotiva upa200.Do you i will get a good spl levels for movies with the e55ti.My ht room is about 16x12.I just want to make sure they can get loud enough to really enjoy movies.
The Upa200 can produce:
(rated power; THD < 0.05%):
125 watts / channel (8 ohms; all channels driven)
200 watts / channel (4 ohms; all channels driven)

In a 16x12 room, this is plenty of power for a pair of 88db speakers. You will probably be able to hit 100db unclipped at over 8 feet away - this is 5db below reference. And no, you don't want to listen at reference in that room unless you want to cover it in hundreds of dollars of absorption and you've got multiple 18 inch subs that plumb the depths.

100db is a very loud peak and allows for an average volume level of about 80db during movies. Generally people are satisfied with ~75db as the speech level. If speech is hard to hear, the first thing I would recommend rather than trying to get the speakers louder is to lower the noise floor of the room itself.

Now are the e55Tis your only option? Certainly not.
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post #3426 of 3427 Old 09-14-2014, 04:13 PM
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Originally Posted by ousooner2 View Post
A room with no furniture, carpet, nothing on the walls, etc will create problems for any speaker. I wouldn't judge speakers costing 100x as much as these EMP's in a room like that


- Large or Small speakers?
* Some people have used them set to large w/ a sub, but I set them to small with a sub crossed at 80hz (wish AVR's would give you more frequencies to cross at than just the typical 40,60,80,90, etc)

- LFE only or LFE+Main if I configure the speakers as Large?
*LARGE - speaker plays full range signal
SMALL - speaker only plays signal above it's crossover setting

LFE = sub only plays LFE signal and from speakers set to SMALL below their crossover
LFE+MAIN = only applies when front main speakers set to LARGE. In addition to what the LFE setting does, the sub also plays the frequencies below the front main crossover setting (while front mains play full range signal). This setting is known as the "double bass" setting as the front main low bass frequencies are being played by both the front main speakers and the sub as well.

However, when using a sub, you should set all speakers (regardless of physical size or mfr recommendation) to SMALL with a minimum of 80hz crossovers. Doing so it doesn't matter what the sub setting is LFE or LFE+Main , the result is the same.


- What's a good crossover to start with? 80Hz?
* 80hz is generally considered a good point to start. Sadly, like I mentioned above, there isn't many points to set a crossover in most AVR's. It's usually 40hz/60hz/80hz/90hz/100hz/etc. 80hz is most recommended because:

1. top end falls off in most HT subs (ported at pretty low tuning frequency)
2. Resonance can be heard higher up
3. Being able to locate the sub becomes easier the higher the x-over point

There's others..and each or all of these don't apply to every sub


- Is the sub volume in the middle reasonable or lower?
* What do you mean 'in the middle or lower'? Are you talking about the gain knob on the back? Technically that's not a 'volume' knob, but what you'll want to do is to run your room correction (just do it once..aka one mic position) until you get it to come back and say the sub is within a range of -3dB to +3dB. Anything negative (-XdB) means the the AVR is trying to cut the signal to the sub -xdB since the gain knob on the back is too high. Anything positive (+XdB) means the AVR is trying to send more voltage to sub to offset the gain on the back of the sub being too low.

It's been found that most room corrections can be funky with the sub when the range is outside of that -3 to +3 range so it's best to try to get inside that
Thank you for your detailed reply.
Yes, by sub volume I meant the gain knob on the back. I have an SPL meter from Radioshack from a few years ago and if it still works, I can run a quick test to get the sub aligned with the speakers as a starting point for Audyssey.

I should also mention that the living room area where the setup lives is all tile (though it will have a rug at some point but not where the sub/speakers are). I read in the sub manual that it should fire on carpet not on hard floors. I suppose I need to source a piece of carpet now or should I instead get an isolation pad such as the Auralex SubDude?
The acoustics of this room turn out to be a pain, as it's a very open floor living room area
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post #3427 of 3427 Old Yesterday, 05:06 PM
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More updates (and questions) on the towers. I hooked up the HSU STF-2 sub to help them and it does make a huge difference. I don't like loud bass, but rather clean, tight bass and the sub delivers. It certainly sounds much better to me with the sub. I have them configured like this (no calibration, just by ear):
Speaker size: Small
Crossover: 80Hz
Sub setting: LFE only (LFE+Main would probably not make a difference with Small speakers in this case -- correct?)
Sub gain knob: at about 10 o'clock (so under 50%)

I also tried Large speakers, sub set to LFE+Main, same 80Hz crossover and the setup sounded decent, but I figured why stress the speakers, free them up to do their job up in the highs and let the sub do the heavy lifting.

And my question ... the AVR is a Denon S900W and under Speakers/Bass there's an option "LPF for LFE" with a range 80-250Hz (default was 120Hz). This has nothing to do with the speaker crossover, right? It only applies to the true LFE channel on for example 5.1 material, not on stereo music. And I assume it doesn't have to match the speaker crossover. Is the default 120Hz a good default? I'm not sure what kind of frequency range is normal for the LFE channel.
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