**Official EMP Owner's Thread** - Page 118 - AVS Forum
Forum Jump: 
 24Likes
Reply
 
Thread Tools
post #3511 of 3534 Old 10-15-2014, 08:37 AM
AVS Special Member
 
Elihawk's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Iowa City, Iowa
Posts: 2,509
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 69 Post(s)
Liked: 170
At the very least, make sure the center is at the front edge of the shelf. You can try plugging the port to see how that would sound.

Set up #1: EMP e5ti, e5Ci, and SLS Q line Audio surrounds, EMP 10i10i sub
Set up #2: Def Tech SM450, CLR2002, SLS Qline surrounds and Klipsch 12wD sub
Set up #3: JBL130, JBL120C and Klipsch synergy sub
Elihawk is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #3512 of 3534 Old 10-15-2014, 07:45 PM
Newbie
 
hottnikks36's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2014
Posts: 4
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 4 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Girls and (mostly) boys..

I gots myself a pair of E5Bi's for the past year for Front L/R in my HT setup. Has anyone ever upgraded from E5B to E55T as their main L/R? Is the upgrade worth it ? Was there any noticeable difference in sound stage, sound detail, imaging, etc.. when switching from the bookshelves to the towers ?
Considering my HT room is rather small-ish (10x13 feet) , would this upgrade be worth it ?
hottnikks36 is offline  
post #3513 of 3534 Old 10-15-2014, 07:59 PM
AVS Special Member
 
dsrussell's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Corona, CA.
Posts: 1,230
Mentioned: 4 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 309 Post(s)
Liked: 380
I own the E5Bi's, and now have no reason to try the E55Ti's since I have a powerful subwoofer that was easy to integrate. If I didn't have a sub, I'd probably audition the towers, but then again, the towers need a subwoofer as well.
dsrussell is offline  
post #3514 of 3534 Old 10-15-2014, 08:31 PM
Member
 
MEGATURON's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2014
Posts: 130
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 64 Post(s)
Liked: 6
Quote:
Originally Posted by dsrussell View Post
I own the E5Bi's, and now have no reason to try the E55Ti's since I have a powerful subwoofer that was easy to integrate. If I didn't have a sub, I'd probably audition the towers, but then again, the towers need a subwoofer as well.
Im kinda leaning on this one also.. Hows the e55ti compare to the e5bi i have a svs pb 2000 i wonder if the tower will make difference sound vs the e5bi
MEGATURON is online now  
post #3515 of 3534 Old 10-15-2014, 09:42 PM
AVS Special Member
 
dsrussell's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Corona, CA.
Posts: 1,230
Mentioned: 4 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 309 Post(s)
Liked: 380
Megaturon: As I stated, I haven't auditioned the towers. Both the E5Bi and E55Ti have the same tweeter and both have the same 5-1/4 inch driver (although the E55Ti has two of those), but that wouldn't change the frequency. The E55Ti does have two additional 6-1/2 inch drivers so its lower midrange would be more prominent as well as its bass would be deeper. It also may have a more open sound and larger sound stage. Since you cross the sub over at 80 Hz (at least I do), the bass won't be a factor, just the midrange. Whether a more extended midrange and more open sound stage is worth $470 more, only you can decide. Had the towers used a better tweeter, I might consider it. For me, I really like the midrange of the E5Bi's and think its sound stage is impressive as is, so I feel the difference would not warrant the extra cost. However, depending upon your environment and what you are seeking, it may be worth it to you. Especially if you feel your system is lacking in the midrange department.
dsrussell is offline  
post #3516 of 3534 Old 10-15-2014, 11:42 PM
Member
 
MEGATURON's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2014
Posts: 130
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 64 Post(s)
Liked: 6
Quote:
Originally Posted by dsrussell View Post
Megaturon: As I stated, I haven't auditioned the towers. Both the E5Bi and E55Ti have the same tweeter and both have the same 5-1/4 inch driver (although the E55Ti has two of those), but that wouldn't change the frequency. The E55Ti does have two additional 6-1/2 inch drivers so its lower midrange would be more prominent as well as its bass would be deeper. It also may have a more open sound and larger sound stage. Since you cross the sub over at 80 Hz (at least I do), the bass won't be a factor, just the midrange. Whether a more extended midrange and more open sound stage is worth $470 more, only you can decide. Had the towers used a better tweeter, I might consider it. For me, I really like the midrange of the E5Bi's and think its sound stage is impressive as is, so I feel the difference would not warrant the extra cost. However, depending upon your environment and what you are seeking, it may be worth it to you. Especially if you feel your system is lacking in the midrange department.

Ok so the highs will have the same sound as the tower whatabout the midrange? Will the tower have more punch on the mid frequency than the bookshelf coz it has two drivers?
MEGATURON is online now  
post #3517 of 3534 Old 10-16-2014, 12:19 AM
AVS Special Member
 
dsrussell's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Corona, CA.
Posts: 1,230
Mentioned: 4 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 309 Post(s)
Liked: 380
^^ It should, but you will need to ask one of the people here that have both the E5Bi's and E55Ti's (there should be several posters here).
dsrussell is offline  
post #3518 of 3534 Old 10-16-2014, 07:49 AM
AVS Special Member
 
ousooner2's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Oklahoma City
Posts: 2,043
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 22 Post(s)
Liked: 79
Four things jump into mind when comparing the E55's vs. the E5's and that's increased bass, increased dynamics, higher sensitivity and lower distortion. If you can get the bookshelve(s) within a close distance of your sub(s) then it will act as a single speaker and you wont have issues (bass muddying the midrange since they're 2 separate enclosures), but that point is null since the E55 tower has a separate compartment for the tweeter/midrange. Lower distortion throughout the midrange and bass should be present obviously. The tower speaker will definitely hold it's composure more at higher SPL's.

I think within a certain price range a bookshelf + sub setup is better than a tower setup. If you already have a sub, then it becomes a little less one sided towards the bookshelves. Most towers under $5-6k or so will need a sub. No question about it. Some people might be okay with not having one, but you're missing the lower end and that's a fact. Not many towers will go down to 30hz or below with authority anywhere near that $5-6 price range. Another thought is that if you're needing stands, you have to add that cost to the bookshelf speaker cost. Sure some stands are cheap and look that way..if that's what you're wanting then that can help your decision sway towards bookshelves even more, but most don't want crummy, ugly looking stands and when dealing with this specific situation you're getting awfully close to being near the price of the towers. Larger cabinets are also more resonant than smaller cabinets (bookshelf) so there's that. In this price range, that can be a factor as enclosure quality can be subpar and color the sound. I do not believe it's an issue with the E55's. On the issue of bass, the E5 bookshelf will play down to the x-over of your SVS (I assume around 80), but it's definitely not going to be playing as cleanly as the E55....and even more so with increased volume.

I could keep going and going, but as you can see there are trade off's to each. I personally think monitors and sub(s) can be an extremely nice setup if you have a smaller-ish room, ability to place the stand mounts where you'd like (aka...no small children; this is not me!), etc. You're usually going to be able find a much nicer bookshelf than a tower when using the same budget ($1,000 tower pair vs. $1,000 bookshelf pair). Clearly the less drivers, smaller cabinet can lead to nicer drivers, more inert cabinet materials and build, less complex & nicer quality x-over, etc.

With that being said, my situation required towers more than bookshelves. I have a very large room that's open to other parts of the house, a small kiddo that I wouldn't want a speaker tipping over and knocking her in the head or smashing a finger/toe and I like to listen loud. Higher sensitivity speakers might have suited my room better, but I'm not huge on the Klipsch reference line and most other stuff that's a lot more sensitive is higher priced or a DIY type thing, which I don't have the time or products for.

Panny 65st60 / Denon X1000 / EMP e55ti / EMP e56ci / EMP e5bi / (2) e1010i
ousooner2 is offline  
post #3519 of 3534 Old 10-17-2014, 09:14 PM
Member
 
tlopes's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Posts: 27
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
Liked: 10
E56Ci center channel diffused at slight angle

In my home theater, I have the full set of EMP speakers with E56Ci center and E55Ti towers with E5Bi's in the back. Since I usually sit in the sweet spot of the room, the center channel usually sounds great! But recently I sat in one of the other chairs just 3 feet away from the sweet spot and was amazed how much less I could hear the voice dialog. Since I had the E56Ci level in the room (just a tad below ear level), I propped it up a few degrees and it helped, but still I'm surprised how much the sound rolls off with just a few degrees offset. This is less noticeable with non 5.1 sources because the dialog moves to the towers. But with 5.1 sources it's very noticeable.

Part of me wants the towers to share the center channel load a bit and that may help the dialog be clearer in other parts of the room, but that kinda defeats the purpose of a center channel being directly below the screen. Can anyone tell me if this is typical with most center channel speakers or is the E56Ci extremely directional? Any suggestions to mitigate this? Many thanks
tlopes is offline  
post #3520 of 3534 Old 10-17-2014, 09:38 PM
AVS Special Member
 
ousooner2's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Oklahoma City
Posts: 2,043
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 22 Post(s)
Liked: 79
That's inherent of all horizontal speakers. That's why 3 identical towers/bookshelves across the front is the best setup. Seamless stage

There are some features (at least in Denon AVR's) that will allow you to spread the center channel to the front left and right.
ousooner2 is offline  
post #3521 of 3534 Old 10-17-2014, 10:51 PM
AVS Special Member
 
Eternal Velocity's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Posts: 1,392
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 28 Post(s)
Liked: 58
Quote:
Originally Posted by tlopes View Post
that kinda defeats the purpose of a center channel being directly below the screen.
I'm still trying to figure out what that purpose is...

Quote:
Can anyone tell me if this is typical with most center channel speakers or is the E56Ci extremely directional?
It is typical and expective of the horizontal WMTMW alignment. Not so much the WCW alignment of, say, the Seaton Catalyst.

Quote:
Any suggestions to mitigate this?
Push the center as far back as possible, right up against the wall perhaps. That gets off-axis seats less off-axis.
Eternal Velocity is offline  
post #3522 of 3534 Old 10-18-2014, 06:50 AM
Member
 
guida74's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Posts: 116
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2 Post(s)
Liked: 11
Quote:
Originally Posted by ousooner2 View Post
That's inherent of all horizontal speakers. That's why 3 identical towers/bookshelves across the front is the best setup. Seamless stage

There are some features (at least in Denon AVR's) that will allow you to spread the center channel to the front left and right.
What setting in my Denon 4310ci would I need to access in order to send the centre channel info to the left and right fronts? Or is this setting unavailable in my model?

I was not aware that something like this even existed....

I have EMP E55Ti's & E56Ci, my centre is above my TV on a shelf in my wall unit, the back is open. I'm sometimes finding it difficult to hear dialogue unless it's quite loud. I have run Audssey calibration. One thing I hear about is plugging the rear ports to flatten frequency response. Can you damage the speakers by doing this? When do you implement port plugging in a set-up?

Last edited by guida74; 10-18-2014 at 06:58 AM.
guida74 is offline  
post #3523 of 3534 Old 10-18-2014, 07:37 AM
Advanced Member
 
SirDracula's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Posts: 573
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 86 Post(s)
Liked: 13
You can try disabling the center channel completely and just use phantom center mode from the LR speakers. You may get better results. I have the towers an no center channel and can't say that I miss it. I'm thinking that maybe I should just not get a center at all.
SirDracula is offline  
post #3524 of 3534 Old 10-18-2014, 08:03 PM
AVS Special Member
 
gregoryperkins's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: Rochester, NY
Posts: 1,017
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 9 Post(s)
Liked: 16
Often center channel problems are room acoustics, meaning you need room treatment. Alternatively just boost the center after Audessey (or whatever the automated setup you have) runs, it just gives you a good starting point, you can tweak from there.
gregoryperkins is offline  
post #3525 of 3534 Old 10-19-2014, 06:49 AM
FMW
AVS Special Member
 
FMW's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Posts: 5,079
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 371 Post(s)
Liked: 765
After you finish with the room calibration routine, manually raise the center channel level 5 to 10 db. It isn't any more complicated than that.
FMW is offline  
post #3526 of 3534 Old 10-19-2014, 07:40 AM
Member
 
hexomega's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Posts: 17
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 12 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Has anyone ever experimented with tweeter replacement on the E5/E55 line? I understand the components are not necessarily plug and play due to crossovers and driver sensitivity, but I can't help but wonder what the tweeter from the RBH SX-6300/r (ScanSpeak Classic D2905/9500) would sound like in my E55Ti towers and E56Ci center. This would be a fairly costly experiment, as the tweeters sell for $130/each on Madisound.
hexomega is offline  
post #3527 of 3534 Old 10-19-2014, 08:24 AM
Member
 
rahulp001's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Posts: 101
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 30 Post(s)
Liked: 13
Quote:
Originally Posted by gregoryperkins View Post
I wouldn't think it is a good idea since the speaker ports are in back, but it doesn't sound like you have much of a choice.
I am now considering moving the shelf itself along the side wall so that I can put a small stool and place the center channel on top of it under the screen.
thanks for your input.
rahulp001 is offline  
post #3528 of 3534 Old 10-19-2014, 09:50 AM
AVS Special Member
 
ousooner2's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Oklahoma City
Posts: 2,043
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 22 Post(s)
Liked: 79
Quote:
Originally Posted by guida74 View Post
What setting in my Denon 4310ci would I need to access in order to send the centre channel info to the left and right fronts? Or is this setting unavailable in my model?

I was not aware that something like this even existed....

I have EMP E55Ti's & E56Ci, my centre is above my TV on a shelf in my wall unit, the back is open. I'm sometimes finding it difficult to hear dialogue unless it's quite loud. I have run Audssey calibration. One thing I hear about is plugging the rear ports to flatten frequency response. Can you damage the speakers by doing this? When do you implement port plugging in a set-up?
Just have a look in the manual. Look it up online if needed

Quote:
Originally Posted by FMW View Post
After you finish with the room calibration routine, manually raise the center channel level 5 to 10 db. It isn't any more complicated than that.
5-10dB!! Woah....not that much. 1-2dB will make the sensitivity match up with the e55's


Quote:
Originally Posted by hexomega View Post
Has anyone ever experimented with tweeter replacement on the E5/E55 line? I understand the components are not necessarily plug and play due to crossovers and driver sensitivity, but I can't help but wonder what the tweeter from the RBH SX-6300/r (ScanSpeak Classic D2905/9500) would sound like in my E55Ti towers and E56Ci center. This would be a fairly costly experiment, as the tweeters sell for $130/each on Madisound.
Won't work. Not only is the diameter of the Scan tweeter larger, but like you said, the crossover network, etc isn't set up for that tweeter. What's wrong with the tweeter that comes with them in your eyes?

Panny 65st60 / Denon X1000 / EMP e55ti / EMP e56ci / EMP e5bi / (2) e1010i
ousooner2 is offline  
post #3529 of 3534 Old 10-19-2014, 10:09 AM
Member
 
hexomega's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Posts: 17
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 12 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Quote:
Originally Posted by ousooner2 View Post
Won't work. Not only is the diameter of the Scan tweeter larger, but like you said, the crossover network, etc isn't set up for that tweeter. What's wrong with the tweeter that comes with them in your eyes?
Ah. Thanks for the clarification on the size, measuring the current tweeters was on my list of things to procrastinate about. In my ears (hah), the stock tweeters break up at higher volumes. Mine are being fed by dual Emo XPA-100 monoblocks so I know they are receiving enough power. I don't normally listen at very loud levels, but the harshness is somewhat distracting during dynamic movie passages, especially considering my system has much more headroom in the low frequencies. In other words, I feel that the tweeters are the weak performers in my system, however as a whole I am very happy with the EMP setup for the cost. One of these days I'll probably upgrade to the SX-6300/r and a matching center, if I can find a dealer within a reasonable distance.
hexomega is offline  
post #3530 of 3534 Old 10-19-2014, 10:42 AM
Member
 
guida74's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Posts: 116
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2 Post(s)
Liked: 11
I raised the centre channel level 2.5 dB, it seems to be an improvement over Audssey value without making the centre jump out of the front soundstage, still sounds balanced with left and right channels.

This setting which is supposed to force centre channel information to the left & right channels, does it have a proprietary name?

All that I could find online was referencing the AVR-X4000 which has these adjustment parameters:

Dialogue Level: You can adjust the output level (+/-12dB) to clarify the dialogue output from the centre channel.

Audyssey DSX Settings - Centre Gain: During DTS NEO:X, this function distributes the dialog output from the centre channel to the front left and right channels and widens the sound image in the front.

If it is these settings, I don't think my 4310ci has these adjustments.
guida74 is offline  
post #3531 of 3534 Old 10-20-2014, 12:07 AM
Advanced Member
 
Gmash's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 570
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 97 Post(s)
Liked: 96
Quote:
Originally Posted by hexomega View Post
Has anyone ever experimented with tweeter replacement on the E5/E55 line? I understand the components are not necessarily plug and play due to crossovers and driver sensitivity, but I can't help but wonder what the tweeter from the RBH SX-6300/r (ScanSpeak Classic D2905/9500) would sound like in my E55Ti towers and E56Ci center. This would be a fairly costly experiment, as the tweeters sell for $130/each on Madisound.
If you look a few pages back, someone did replace the tweeters with some higher quality units and was very happy with the results.
Gmash is offline  
post #3532 of 3534 Old 10-20-2014, 12:36 AM
FMW
AVS Special Member
 
FMW's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Posts: 5,079
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 371 Post(s)
Liked: 765
Quote:
Originally Posted by hexomega View Post
Has anyone ever experimented with tweeter replacement on the E5/E55 line? I understand the components are not necessarily plug and play due to crossovers and driver sensitivity, but I can't help but wonder what the tweeter from the RBH SX-6300/r (ScanSpeak Classic D2905/9500) would sound like in my E55Ti towers and E56Ci center. This would be a fairly costly experiment, as the tweeters sell for $130/each on Madisound.

I replaced the tweeters in my E55 systems with Morel tweeters to good effect. Understand that you will have to use the speakers only with receivers or processors that have calibration software because they certainly don't match the specs of the originals and, hence, aren't compatible with the stock crossover. They sound treble heavy without the EQ in an AV receiver. I posted about the project in this forum. You might search under morel or something like that. I like the added sparkle I get from the more sensitive tweeters with a lower resonant frequency. If I ever decide to use them unequalized, I can just put the original tweeters back in.


For others above. The E55 sound quite different from the E5. I have both. The E55 have superior midrange and relatively weaker treble (same tweeter with double the midrange.) It is unfair to compare the bass because the E5 speakers don't have any, as one would expect. The E55 is a three way system while the E5 is a two way system. They just aren't the same. They aren't same with subwoofers and they aren't the same without subwoofers. No point in trying to compare them.
FMW is offline  
post #3533 of 3534 Old 10-20-2014, 08:09 AM
AVS Special Member
 
ousooner2's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Oklahoma City
Posts: 2,043
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 22 Post(s)
Liked: 79
Quote:
Originally Posted by guida74 View Post
I raised the centre channel level 2.5 dB, it seems to be an improvement over Audssey value without making the centre jump out of the front soundstage, still sounds balanced with left and right channels.

This setting which is supposed to force centre channel information to the left & right channels, does it have a proprietary name?

All that I could find online was referencing the AVR-X4000 which has these adjustment parameters:

Dialogue Level: You can adjust the output level (+/-12dB) to clarify the dialogue output from the centre channel.

Audyssey DSX Settings - Centre Gain: During DTS NEO:X, this function distributes the dialog output from the centre channel to the front left and right channels and widens the sound image in the front.

If it is these settings, I don't think my 4310ci has these adjustments.
Do you still have your Denon 4310ci manual? If not, here you go: file:///C:/Users/cpackard/Downloads/avr4310ci.pdf

See page 76 as it talks about 'center image' & 'center width' and how to adjust them. Are you using MultEQ XT? If you're using a quality source like a blu-ray and the center image is a still a little too pronounced and/or seems like all audio is coming from the center only, try making small (0.1ft at a time) adjustments to the center channel distance. There could be a phasing issue there. I'm sure using the center image and center width will make you happy-er though

Panny 65st60 / Denon X1000 / EMP e55ti / EMP e56ci / EMP e5bi / (2) e1010i
ousooner2 is offline  
post #3534 of 3534 Old 10-20-2014, 03:04 PM
Member
 
tlopes's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Posts: 27
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Thanks for all the feedback on the center channel issue. I did move my center back further and it has improved the disbursement of the voice track, but still the issue is noticeable. Surprising to me that a center is so directional and these slight adjustments actually help! I would have thought this topic would be reserved for tweeters in the towers, but I guess there is plenty of tweet in the voice track!

Thanks again for the discussion!
tlopes is offline  
Reply Speakers

Tags
Emp , Emp Tek , Emp Tek E10s Subwoofer , Emp Tek Ef30c Center Speaker , Emp Tek Ef30t Tower Speakers , Emp Tek E55tir Tower Speakers , Emp Tek Ef30 Bookshelf Speakers , Speaker Systems

User Tag List

Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page


Forum Jump: 

Posting Rules  
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off