**Official EMP Owner's Thread** - Page 133 - AVS Forum
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post #3961 of 4115 Old 12-09-2014, 02:36 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rossandwendy View Post
I have 30" stands for my R5Bi mains (http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00...?ie=UTF8&psc=1) and it's the perfect height for me - I would not want any shorter, as speakers that sit too low have reduced soundstage height to my ears (whether real or imagined). I also enjoy the cherry finish. It is several shades lighter than the R5Bi and I find it complementary. ... but if I needed more weight and stability I would go with a heavy metal stand that can be filled with sand or shot, and would use Blu-Tack to keep the speakers attached.

For surrounds, Dolby's official recommendation is two feet above a seated listener's ears, and having tried various heights I find that recommendation works great for me. It helps the surround speakers be a bit more diffuse and enveloping rather than easily locatable and enhances the sense of rear soundstage height.

Ross, thanks for the info. on the color! This info has me considering the Sanus stands again

Ah! I had always been wondering what the official / recommendation surround height was. For some reason I never checked. That's a great tip raising them slightly above ear level to enlarge the rear sound stage!

The tip about using Blu-Tack is gold. I have some double sided tape but it is WAY too strong and never thought to check for a good replacement. http://www.amazon.com/s/?field-keywords=blu-tack

Thanks again for all the great tips!

UPDATE: Went ahead and pulled the trigger on the Sanus 36" Natural Series Fixed Height Speaker Stand. Will post pics when they arrive so others have a color reference.
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post #3962 of 4115 Old 12-09-2014, 03:09 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by _Michaelangelo_ View Post
Would those be these ones?



* http://www.amazon.com/dp/B003UKQKG0/



Hmm, I looks like I might have to "settle" for black ... or mocha ...



What is strange is that these 30" are explicitly listed as Mocha/Black:



* http://www.amazon.com/dp/B004B3ASBI/



While the 36" (the ones I want) are not ...



* http://www.amazon.com/dp/B004B363DA/



Black is option ...



* http://www.amazon.com/dp/B00092HW9G/

Yes those are the ones I use for my surrounds. They are have a wrought iron finish, but they are black.


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Denon AVR-1713 | EMP E55Ti | EMP E56Ci | EMP E5Bi | BIC F-12
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post #3963 of 4115 Old 12-09-2014, 08:16 PM
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Got R55Ti, R56Ci and R5Bi's over the weekend and unboxing them. Yes, and I will post the pictures of these beauties.

Since the speakers purchase is done now, I am wondering which AVR would be good for these EMPTek's. Between Denon S900W and Sony STR-DN1050, is there a better AVR for the EMPs. I am leaning towards Denon as EMPs are rated at 6 ohm and generally like the Audessey calibration. What do you all think?

I also have to mount the R5Bi surrounds on the wall (3 kids running all around). Any suggestions on wall mounts will be helpful.

Thanks.

Speakers: EMPTek R55Ti (L/F), R56Ci (C), R5Bi (side and back surrounds)
Sub: Outlaw LFM-EX
Projector: Sony HW40ES
AV Receiver: TBD
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post #3964 of 4115 Old 12-09-2014, 08:29 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pillikodi View Post
Got R55Ti, R56Ci and R5Bi's over the weekend and unboxing them. Yes, and I will post the pictures of these beauties.

Since the speakers purchase is done now, I am wondering which AVR would be good for these EMPTek's. Between Denon S900W and Sony STR-DN1050, is there a better AVR for the EMPs. I am leaning towards Denon as EMPs are rated at 6 ohm and generally like the Audessey calibration. What do you all think?

I also have to mount the R5Bi surrounds on the wall (3 kids running all around). Any suggestions on wall mounts will be helpful.

Thanks.
I bought the Pinpoint Mounts AM24/25s. They work great!
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post #3965 of 4115 Old 12-09-2014, 08:35 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by phiz118 View Post
I bought the Pinpoint Mounts AM24/25s. They work great!
Any pictures of them mounted? Would be curious to see how they look if you don't mind.

AVR - Denon AVR-X1100W
Mains - RBH R5Bi
Center - RBH R5Ci
Sub - Outlaw Audio Ultra X-12
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post #3966 of 4115 Old 12-09-2014, 09:04 PM
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yes, I would say the room correction on the Denon receiver will be better than the Sony, IMHO.

Set up #1: EMP e5ti, e5Ci, and SLS Q line Audio surrounds, EMP 10i10i sub
Set up #2: Def Tech SM450, CLR2002, SLS Qline surrounds and Klipsch 12wD sub
Set up #3: JBL130, JBL120C and Klipsch synergy sub
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post #3967 of 4115 Old 12-09-2014, 09:15 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pillikodi View Post
Got R55Ti, R56Ci and R5Bi's over the weekend and unboxing them. Yes, and I will post the pictures of these beauties.

Since the speakers purchase is done now, I am wondering which AVR would be good for these EMPTek's. Between Denon S900W and Sony STR-DN1050, is there a better AVR for the EMPs. I am leaning towards Denon as EMPs are rated at 6 ohm and generally like the Audessey calibration. What do you all think?

Thanks.
Congrats!

If it were me I would go with the Denon over the Sony, they have a solid reputation. I had a Denon the last 6 years and loved it.
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post #3968 of 4115 Old 12-09-2014, 09:24 PM
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Originally Posted by Bfielder View Post
Any pictures of them mounted? Would be curious to see how they look if you don't mind.
Here's a picture of the wall mount and the ceiling mount. They fit very snug. I did it by myself, however it would have been much easier with another person helping.
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post #3969 of 4115 Old 12-10-2014, 05:22 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ousooner2 View Post
As you can see there are 4 mounting holes for the outriggers so I also thought about creating a base like the Sierra towers, ARX, HTD level 3, etc. I'm not sure if something like that would be noticeably more stable or not. It seems like outriggers are just not wide enough for the height and weight. I don't have the equipment to make a base, router the edges so they look nice, etc. That's why I went to bags of sand as it's heavy, but won't take up a ton of room. Shouldn't effect sound too much either and it's not permanent
Added a picture of what I meant. A new base could be nice, but yeah it would take some handiwork. You could also buy a nice piece of granite and bolt it to the bottom of the speakers, get it cut the same shape as the enclosure, it wouldn't be cheap, but damn would it look good.

I would try some things before putting material in the cabinet, I don't know how that is going to affect the sound.

Denon AVR-1713 | EMP E55Ti | EMP E56Ci | EMP E5Bi | BIC F-12
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post #3970 of 4115 Old 12-10-2014, 06:21 AM
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Received 4 of the 9 I ordered. Hopefully the rest will come in soon.

I have a question regarding running wires through the wall. Does anyone have any experience with running wires through closed cell foam filled walls?
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post #3971 of 4115 Old 12-10-2014, 07:21 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pillikodi View Post
Got R55Ti, R56Ci and R5Bi's over the weekend and unboxing them. Yes, and I will post the pictures of these beauties.

Since the speakers purchase is done now, I am wondering which AVR would be good for these EMPTek's. Between Denon S900W and Sony STR-DN1050, is there a better AVR for the EMPs. I am leaning towards Denon as EMPs are rated at 6 ohm and generally like the Audessey calibration. What do you all think?

I also have to mount the R5Bi surrounds on the wall (3 kids running all around). Any suggestions on wall mounts will be helpful.

Thanks.
The Denon is going to be a much better option, if nothing else because of Audessey. In the world of room correction they still seem to be the leaders of the pack.

AVR: Denon 2112
Speakers: EMP Tek e55ti, Center- EMP Tek e56ci, Side Surrounds- EMP Tek e55wi, Rear Surrounds- SVS Prime Satellites, Sub- SVS PC12 Plus
Display: BenQ w1070 on a 92in fixed screen
Blu-Ray Player: Sony BDP S6200;
Playstation 4, Apple TV, Harmony Remote
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post #3972 of 4115 Old 12-10-2014, 09:48 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by phiz118 View Post
Here's a picture of the wall mount and the ceiling mount. They fit very snug. I did it by myself, however it would have been much easier with another person helping.
Nice job. My audio company installed my R5Bis (surrounds) as it was part of their overall package. But yes I held them while he tightened. You're a champ for doing that yourself. I'll get pics of mine as well. I like how you used binding posts. I went with just pass through plates this time.

I'll still debating on whether to add the rear speakers (wiring done, mounts and speakers ready). I'm leaning towards installing them. Then I'll snap some overall pics.
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post #3973 of 4115 Old 12-10-2014, 10:41 AM
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Got a chance to play with the new bookshelf speakers recently. When I first received them I just ran them 2.0 since I had a sub on the way and I didn't feel like digging out my (Average at best) Dayton sub. Listened to mostly music in the 2.0 configuration. I have the center as well just didn't hook it up yet. I haven't done any tuning or room correction or anything like that yet. I've only manually set my crossover points.

Keep in mind my past experiences have been with an old Sony AVR and a cheap 5.1 Dayton satellite set up.

They really sound fantastic. Mids are very clear and detailed. Definitely laid back and maybe even recessed a bit? Which I personally like. The tweeter is that same type sound signature. It's very smooth, and highly detailed without being over bearing. The low end is obviously lacking, but that isn't a negative in my opinion. I really love hearing all of the details that I haven't heard before. Cymbals are so clear and detailed. I love being able to hear every single string on a guitar when playing a chord, the snare drum has a nice snap, and overall I'm so pleased with them.

However this morning my Outlaw Ultra arrived so after carefully unpacking and allowing it to warm up for a while I plugged it in and now just a 2.1 no center still, and again no tuning just crossover points. This is where it really started to get fun. Now all of the sudden the lack of low end was filled and the overall package is very nice, and it will get better once I take the time to do tuning and room correction.

Back to the EMP Tek's I'm really going to enjoy them. I still can't believe they retail for $225 and with the holiday price of $165 I feel like i'm stealing them. From the little bit I was able to play today I can really tell that it's going to make listening to music and watching movies fun again. Initial impressions have me very impressed.

Thanks to the many people who steered me in the right direction. Everyone participating in this thread has been very helpful to me and many other people, and also across the entire forum I've dealt with nothing but nice and informative people.

Apologies for the longish post. =)

AVR - Denon AVR-X1100W
Mains - RBH R5Bi
Center - RBH R5Ci
Sub - Outlaw Audio Ultra X-12
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post #3974 of 4115 Old 12-10-2014, 11:09 AM
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Good to hear! Run MultEQ XT and see what happens. You might like them even more! MultEQ XT made a pretty large difference in my room. Wish I had MultEQ XT32 w/ subEQ, but oh well. Maybe later


Also, I didn't have time to do the sand/lead shot experiments last night guys. I figured I'd wait until I get some spikes from RBH since without them they're quite a bit more wobbly. They're being sent now so hopefully I'll get to test this weekend.

Panny 65st60 / Denon X1000 / EMP e55ti / EMP e56ci / EMP e5bi / (2) e1010i
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post #3975 of 4115 Old 12-10-2014, 11:18 AM
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[QUOTE=ousooner2;29787225]Good to hear! Run MultEQ XT and see what happens. You might like them even more! MultEQ XT made a pretty large difference in my room. Wish I had MultEQ XT32 w/ subEQ, but oh well. Maybe later

Yup I definitely will just wanted to do an initial test run.

AVR - Denon AVR-X1100W
Mains - RBH R5Bi
Center - RBH R5Ci
Sub - Outlaw Audio Ultra X-12
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post #3976 of 4115 Old 12-10-2014, 02:02 PM
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Hey everyone. I'll be going to pick mine up this weekend from a local shipping warehouse. SUPER EXCITED.
I've only ordered the r55ti's so far, and have a Sony STR-DN1050 ready to go as well.

Question.

As far as budgets go, I shouldnt go and order a sub or a center channel any time until after xmas.
Now... I am upgrading from a 6 year old HTIB, Am i going to be shooting my self in the foot for not having a center or a sub for a few months or are the towers more than sufficient in your mind coming from my old system?

Debating whether I should just bight the bullet and order a sub now or just wait it out.

Cheers!
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post #3977 of 4115 Old 12-10-2014, 02:12 PM
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Depends on what your budget is for a sub. If it's $200-300ish then I'd wait and build that budget up for a beefier, better sub. The towers will do a VERY solid phantom center even at 10' apart. I think the e56ci is good to have if you're way off axis, but if you're usually in the middle and that's your main listening position, you'll be fine for now. Doesn't hurt to try it out first and see if you like it. If you decide it's okay then you can put that towards the sub

Panny 65st60 / Denon X1000 / EMP e55ti / EMP e56ci / EMP e5bi / (2) e1010i
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post #3978 of 4115 Old 12-10-2014, 02:13 PM
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funkrush: Never buy anything without a lot of thought and research. So use that time to do just that. Your 2.0 system will be fine for awhile (but a good subwoofer is indeed needed). I'd say that once you are ready, buy the sub first. If the stereo setup isn't giving you a good phantom center (I'm pretty sure that it will), then pick up a center channel next.

Music area: Magnepan 3.6, McIntosh MC2205 & C48, SVS SB13-Ultra, Oppo BDP 95 and assorted equipment.
Movie area: EMP Tek R5Bi, PSA XS30, Denon X2000, Oppo BDP 83.
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post #3979 of 4115 Old 12-10-2014, 02:26 PM
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Originally Posted by dsrussell View Post
funkrush: Never buy anything without a lot of thought and research. So use that time to do just that. Your 2.0 system will be fine for awhile (but a good subwoofer is indeed needed). I'd say that once you are ready, buy the sub first. If the stereo setup isn't giving you a good phantom center (I'm pretty sure that it will), then pick up a center channel next.
You are always here to lend your advice.
Much appreciated.

I've been pouring over reviews and forum posts on subs for a while.
There are so many things to consider...

One of which is EMPtek is likely releasing their new sub design in March next year.
The other being the WAF, mainly for price more than anything else. Right now my top pick price/performance wise is the HSU STF-2. Would love to chat with you more about subs if you have the time, but we should do it via PM rather than cloud up this awesome Emptek thread.

Send me a note if you are willing =)
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post #3980 of 4115 Old 12-10-2014, 03:45 PM
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funkrush: PM sent.

Music area: Magnepan 3.6, McIntosh MC2205 & C48, SVS SB13-Ultra, Oppo BDP 95 and assorted equipment.
Movie area: EMP Tek R5Bi, PSA XS30, Denon X2000, Oppo BDP 83.
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post #3981 of 4115 Old 12-10-2014, 03:51 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by funkrush View Post
You are always here to lend your advice.
Much appreciated.

I've been pouring over reviews and forum posts on subs for a while.
There are so many things to consider...

One of which is EMPtek is likely releasing their new sub design in March next year.
The other being the WAF, mainly for price more than anything else. Right now my top pick price/performance wise is the HSU STF-2. Would love to chat with you more about subs if you have the time, but we should do it via PM rather than cloud up this awesome Emptek thread.

Send me a note if you are willing =)
NO! i eventually need a sub and would appreciate others comments as to what is a decent compliment with the emp teks....

Samsung PN51F8500 ~ Marantz SR5008 ~ Oppo BDP 103D ~ EMP Tek R55TiB LR, R56CiB, R55WiB ~ Sennheiser Momentum ~ Sennheiser 598
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post #3982 of 4115 Old 12-10-2014, 04:15 PM
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NO! i eventually need a sub and would appreciate others comments as to what is a decent compliment with the emp teks....
Ditto.
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post #3983 of 4115 Old 12-10-2014, 04:17 PM
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funkrush: PM sent.
So... first off. THANKS so much for that.
Secondly, I tried to reply to you, but my message floated off to cyberspace purgatory as I dont have 15 posts on this forum yet and they have a rule where I cannot reply to PM's until I have that. So I have to retype everything!

I'll post my reply here instead:

Quote:

I'll just pointform what I wrote:

Subwoofer crawl: Definitely, I will perform this no matter what.

Room: You actually have already seen the room in my sloped ceiling thread. Its roughly 16 x 23 x 8 with a sloped ceiling going up to the second floor.

Listening levels: I probably won't ever have the system cranked as we share one wall, and also have tenants in a unit below us. I doubt I'll ever exceed 70-80 dB max.

Also, I live in Canada, which increases the shipping costs.

My options:
HSU STF-2 - $319.00 + $46 s/h + Canadian shipping / duties, probably an additional $60-$80 =(
Velodyne DPS-12 - A local craiglist listing ( **EDIT, I JUST BOUGHT THIS, negotiated to $165 USD local pickup )
Klipsch RW10D - Local listing, but im worried it's too small for the room.
**Second edit** Just noticed... this is my 15th post... go figure.

Last edited by funkrush; 12-10-2014 at 04:23 PM.
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post #3984 of 4115 Old 12-10-2014, 04:28 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by funkrush View Post
You are always here to lend your advice.
Much appreciated.

I've been pouring over reviews and forum posts on subs for a while.
There are so many things to consider...

One of which is EMPtek is likely releasing their new sub design in March next year.
The other being the WAF, mainly for price more than anything else. Right now my top pick price/performance wise is the HSU STF-2. Would love to chat with you more about subs if you have the time, but we should do it via PM rather than cloud up this awesome Emptek thread.

Send me a note if you are willing =)
dsrussel is a good guy. He was very instrumental in helping me make a decision and is always giving his honest opinion/advice to many other people all over this forum. If it wasn't for him (among some others as well) I wouldn't be the happy owner of the fine EMP Tek products.
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AVR - Denon AVR-X1100W
Mains - RBH R5Bi
Center - RBH R5Ci
Sub - Outlaw Audio Ultra X-12
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post #3985 of 4115 Old 12-10-2014, 04:35 PM
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funkrush: From the three subs you listed, I'd say the Hsu and Velodyne are comparable. But neither will perform that well in your room volume. I would check with Premier Acoustics about cost and shipping for their PA-150 to Canada. One can deal with Premier Acoustics and that $499 price can often be lowered to well under $400. This is a large ported design known for output above 40 Hz.

To ljmart and localghost: The following is part of the PM I sent to funkrush. I hope it's helpful:

There are several factors when looking for a subwoofer that suits your needs. The main factor is room volume (width, length, height) and whether your room is closed or open to other rooms. The deeper a subwoofer's frequency, the longer the wavelength is and the more volume it sees. At 20 Hz we're talking about 56 feet. At 25 Hz we're talking about 45 feet. And at 16 Hz (the lowest pipe organ pedal note) we are talking 70 feet.

Because of these long wavelengths, subwoofers are difficult to setup correctly. One can't just plop a subwoofer down because it looks good in that corner or area. One must do a subwoofer crawl test. This is done by placing the subwoofer on top of your main listening position (chair or couch). Then one crawls around the perimeter of the room while playing test tones or music with low, sustained notes. One can do this by ear, but I (and many) also use a dB meter. As you crawl around you'll find areas where you will hear little or no bass (nulls, where there is frequency cancellation from reflected waves). There will be other areas where the bass sounds pretty horrible (muddy or boomy). These are peaks where the reflective waves gather (usually in corners). Hopefully there will be areas where the bass is loud, smooth and succinct. That's where you will place your subwoofer. One guy noted that the best place he could put his sub was in the foyer by the front door!!

Another factor is what one is trying to achieve. Music differs from movies. In movies one is usually seeking impact. There are two kinds of impact. Upper frequency impact (above 40 Hz), known as chest thumping bass. Lower bass impact (under 40 Hz) where pictures rattle, your chair vibrates and it may feel like your house is coming apart. Under 20 Hz, it's bass you feel more than you hear. For music, one is seeking to support lower frequencies of the instruments. Most instruments don't get down below 30 Hz, but synthesizers and pipe organs can go below 20 Hz.

Another factor is output. Price of subwoofers are based on how low and how loud they can get in the lower frequencies. The larger the volume of the room is, the more difficult it is to achieve loud output levels. Human hearing is such that we don't hear lower frequencies as well as midrange and treble frequencies. It takes more sound pressure levels (SPL) at the lower frequencies for us to hear it. So if one is listening to main speakers around 90 dB, you'd need 100 dB output for your subwoofer. Those subwoofers that can attain loud SPL at 20 Hz are the most expensive (and most impressive).

And finally there is the WAF. Not only on the looks of the subwoofer, but where it is placed and how big it is. The bigger the subwoofer, the deeper and more powerful they can play. Simple law of physics. Yes, one can achieve surprising results from a small, powerful sub (such as the SB13-Ultra), but that costs a lot of money.
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Music area: Magnepan 3.6, McIntosh MC2205 & C48, SVS SB13-Ultra, Oppo BDP 95 and assorted equipment.
Movie area: EMP Tek R5Bi, PSA XS30, Denon X2000, Oppo BDP 83.
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post #3986 of 4115 Old 12-10-2014, 04:41 PM
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funkrush: From the three subs you listed, I'd say the Hsu and Velodyne are comparable. But neither will perform that well in your room volume. I would check with Premier Acoustics about cost and shipping for their PA-150 to Canada. One can deal with Premier Acoustics and that $499 price can often be lowered to well under $400. This is a large ported design known for output above 40 Hz.
Thanks again for this. Given the price I am getting the DPS-12 for ($165), im willing to take a chance / use it temporarily until I can save up enough for a unit with a much higher / more powerful output. If the DPS-12 is adequate, If I can find a second one for the same price would that setup become more viable for my room size? Or am I better off selling the DPS-12 when I'm ready and moving to a better single sub?
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post #3987 of 4115 Old 12-10-2014, 04:45 PM
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That's a nice price. You'll know whether you like it enough to get a second DPS-12. A second sub will give you 3 - 6 dB more output (depending upon placement). However, if you are seeking a deeper frequency response, you'll need to go to a more capable sub.

Music area: Magnepan 3.6, McIntosh MC2205 & C48, SVS SB13-Ultra, Oppo BDP 95 and assorted equipment.
Movie area: EMP Tek R5Bi, PSA XS30, Denon X2000, Oppo BDP 83.
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post #3988 of 4115 Old 12-10-2014, 04:56 PM
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Good to know. Thanks for all the help on this! You've been pretty instrumental in the building of my system.
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post #3989 of 4115 Old 12-10-2014, 05:46 PM
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That's a nice price. You'll know whether you like it enough to get a second DPS-12. A second sub will give you 3 - 6 dB more output (depending upon placement). However, if you are seeking a deeper frequency response, you'll need to go to a more capable sub.
I took a look at the PA-150, to get one to Canada will be around $450 USD. At that price, i'd rather spend the extra $100-150 and move into PB12-NSD / Emotiva Ultra 12 / Outlaw Ultra X territory when they come on sale.
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post #3990 of 4115 Old 12-10-2014, 06:05 PM
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funkrush, take from a guy who "cheaped" on the subwoofer, and now has a subwoofer graveyard in a spare basement room...you need to spend a little coin to get a good sub! nothing wrong with your approach, get something in place until you can afford a capable sub. I would say you should budget at least 500 dollars for that.

i have posted many times how impressed I was with my EMPtek10i10i sub, and it is a very accurate sub, but decent output...but really struggles to hit the lows that modern soundtrack are known for. For music, the EMP sub is wonderful, but it was lacking for HT. Recently, I stepped up with a 12 inch Outlaw LFM-1 plus, 350 watts, and that is a big boy sub. Yes, there are better (I recently was in a house that had the Legacy Goliath dual 15 inch, 1000 watt sub and that sub could move mountains)...but I don't have 10,000 dollars to spend on a sub. You mentioned the HSU, but also look at SVS, Rythmics, Outlaw and as ds mentioned, PSA. All great subs for the price. With a few exceptions, I have found that companies known for good SPEAKERS make poor or overpriced subs (i have two boomy Klipsch subs and an even crappy Martin logan sub).

Good luck and enjoy those EMP speakers!

Set up #1: EMP e5ti, e5Ci, and SLS Q line Audio surrounds, EMP 10i10i sub
Set up #2: Def Tech SM450, CLR2002, SLS Qline surrounds and Klipsch 12wD sub
Set up #3: JBL130, JBL120C and Klipsch synergy sub
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