**Official EMP Owner's Thread** - Page 147 - AVS | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #4381 of 4400 Old 01-24-2015, 06:53 PM
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Post EMPTek E5Ti vs Infinity P362

I almost feel bad for my Infinitys, for bringing in another speaker and "cheating" on them. But for audio fanatics, this is how we decide if we are going to save our next paycheck or blow it on new gear.

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The Incumbent: Infinity Primus P362
The Challenger: EMPTek Impressions E5Ti

These speakers carried the same price when I bought them, and I intended to do a comparison way back in 2010. They both cost $200/ea, and I intended to use them in different rooms. I already had the P362's for my HT at the time I got in on the introduction E5Tis. But life happened, and the EMPs ended up being stored for a while. So here we are in 2015, and with the E5Ti having been discontinued this is no longer a purchase decision that anyone would be making. But the reason why I want to compare them is to get a feel for the EMP sound. I figure if I cross these at 80Hz, I should be very close to what the E5Bi bookshelves sound like and if I feel they are better than what I have, I'll consider buying a pair.

Keep in mind that this comparison is valid for my room only. It is a typical finished basement measuring 130”x260”x86” with carpet and plush recliners. There are 2 openings to the room. One is the carpeted stairway that leads upstairs, and the other is a hallway that leads to the bathroom and bedroom. No acoustic treatments exist at this time. The H/T is positioned on the the long end (the 130" wall) by the stairway. This review is also only concerned with their sound. As most of you know, the EMPTek speakers are beautiful, while the Infinity Primus line is more utilitarian, though not ugly. FYI - I don't have pictures of it, but the final speaker position where they sounded best was not pointed directly at me. They are only toed in slightly now.

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Gear and setup

Denon AVR-1910
P362 are L/R "Speakers A"
E5Ti are L/R "Speakers B"
Switching was done with my Harmony One
Level matching was done by ear (4 clicks on the volume button)

Audyssey OFF, speakers set to "Small" with a crossover at the recommended 80Hz. Tested first without sub, then with. Sub was set to "Yes", but unplugged for the first test so the AVR was sending the LFE channel and all frequencies under 80Hz to nowhere. This way I could get the pure sound signature of both pairs of speakers without any bass influencing my preferences. I then plugged it in to get the full picture and see how it all came together. Basically, I wanted to see how these would sound without the bass woofers, approximating a bookshelf speaker. It's not a perfect test, but it should be good enough.

Music was played from my NAS via my PS3 outputting MULTICH IN to the Denon. Files are mostly LAME VBR MP3 with a setting of 0, so indistinguishable from FLAC to virtually all human ears. There are some 320k mp3 files as well.

I’ll start by saying that I didn’t get super excited about either speaker set up this way, though I developed a clear preference pretty quickly. Here are my observations on their “naked” sound.

The E5 sounds more realistic overall. Instruments and vocals were more organic, and were more clearly discernable. The speakers were slightly subdued compared to what I’m used to, and I found myself wanting to turn them up so they would reveal what they had to offer. With enough listening it might become my new preference. They were detailed and very sharp, but it takes a certain song with the right instrument to leave you feeling like it’s too much. This might seem to contradict the previous sentence, but I noticed this on a particular synthetic beat in a Nine Inch Nails song that stood out a bit too much for my tastes. I didn’t encounter it again.

The Primus sounds like its adding its own "voice" to the music. Sss's are a tiny bit harsher, cymbals were too pronounced/hot, almost synthetic compared to the E5. I found myself wanting to turn them down.

Tool - Vicarious
The triangle had a bit more detail and was more discernable from the bass guitar in the opening passage. The Primus had too much treble in this song.

Tool - Jambi
This one is a great test for well recorded bass guitar, drums and vocals. I’ve found it very sensitive to speaker setup and the smallest changes are very noticeable in the tone of the guitar. I found the E5 to better represent what I thought was the “right” sound from the bass guitar. Also in the opening passage, Maynard's voice was much more realistic on the E5. The Primus made it sound more obvious that the voice was coming from a speaker. I prefer the more natural tone of the E5.

Nine Inch Nails - Somewhat Damaged
Trent's voice sounded much more realistic on the E5. Again the midrange has too much treble on the Primus.

NIN - The Wretched
I actually didn't like how sharp the synthetic beats were from the E5 in the opening passage of this song. This is the only time I noticed this. The piano however carried more weight on the E5 and sounded more realistic than the Primus, which sounded good but didn’t really strike me in the same way.

NIN - We're In This Together
Same observations. Too much treble on the Primus and a more realistic presentation from the E5.

Rammstein – Los
This is a good non-busy track to test acoustic guitar, detailed vocals that are recorded to sound very close, and a fairly simple drum set. The guitar plucks carried more weight from the E5 and sounded more colored from the Primus. The vocals sounded more intimate coming from the E5 and more like a speaker coming from the Primus.

I also tested some soundtrack music including Mass Effect and World of Warcraft to get some more synthetic and classical instruments. This is where it was harder to pick a winner. I felt the E5’s were too subdued at times, while the Primus P362 was still a bit too hot. I found myself wanting something in between the two.

With the E5's the sound seems to come from almost a foot lower in height than the Primus, which is due to the midrange placement. This is one area where I have to give the Primus the win. The E5 towers are just too short to be ultimately convincing, especially if you will be up and moving as you listen to music in your room. They also aren’t high enough to reach the middle of my TV. If you look at the height that the bookshelves would sit at on these stands, I'm thinking they would be perfect. If I like the sound of the E5Ti, but I prefer them up higher, I'm thinking the E5Bi should get me there without having to go all the way to the E55Ti which would cost $469 more.

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I found myself wanting to turn down the Primus P362 and turn up the E5Ti. Partly due to the difference in output (the Primus is slightly louder) and partly due to the difference in treble (the Primus is hotter while the E5 has you leaning in to hear more). Long term I could foresee much less listening fatigue from the E5. I can also foresee needing a good deal more volume to reveal their secrets, which will require more power. But their overall natural presentation has me giving them the nod.

Subwoofer ON

I liked them both a lot better with the sub and it became harder to pick a favorite. I still chose the E5, but the Primus no longer annoyed my ears.

Audyssey changes things somewhat. It improved both speakers a great deal, and smoothed the integration with the sub greatly. I preferred the “Flat” setting with the E5 and the standard “Audyssey” setting with the P362, being that it was more aggressive at taming the top end of the Primus. Both sets of speakers now sound “complete” and I was happy with them both. However, each speaker’s sound signature was still detectable, including the more trebly nature of the Primus. Audyssey did a good job taming it a bit, but I came to prefer how the E5 came to life with the sub. With enough volume they didn’t sound subdued, and I think the best word I can come up with to describe them is “natural”. There is no emphasis in the treble or the bass with these speakers, so they will need some time for your auditory processing to get used to their sound if you haven’t listened to a speaker like this before. This is probably obvious by now, but I preferred the EMP E5 sound over the Infinity Primus, but not by as big of a margin as I did during the initial “naked” test. And after extended cranking of loud rock music with each set, I found myself enjoying the E5's and their natural sound more, and never felt like it was grating on the ears. The Infinitys aren't as hot as some others on the market, but they certainly could induce a bit more fatigue than the EMP speakers. Some people may prefer the sound of the Infinity Primus, so take my review for what it is.

One caveat: the best sound I achieved with the EMPs was when I ran them Full Range with Main+LFE, while with the Infinitys it was a crossover of 60Hz with Main+LFE. I believe the reason for this is that my Velodyne VX-10 sub is not very strong, and I’m preferring the mains helping a bit in the bass frequencies. And yes, the P362s do have stronger low frequency output, which is why I favored them set up this way. They fare better than the EMP E5 if you aren't using a sub, which needed Full Range for an extra boost. A sub is still highly recommended with both though.

So what’s next? I plan to sell my P362s and pit the EMP E5Ti up against another speaker. At this time I’m really interested in the Chane bookshelves. Just going by their components and specs alone, it shouldn’t be a fair fight. But in the $200-300 bookshelf speaker range, this could be quite interesting. Who would be interested in this comparison? I considered the HTD Level Threes also, but after finding (coincidentally) three separate remarks about how their midrange was a bit recessed it kind of put me off. They are also slightly more expensive.

Samsung, Sony, Denon, Infinity, EMP, Velodyne and SVS
Samsung PN64H5000 Recommended Settings

Last edited by Soulburner; 01-24-2015 at 08:33 PM. Reason: Added pictures
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post #4382 of 4400 Old 01-24-2015, 09:49 PM
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^ Very nicely done! I found your review informative and gave me a good idea of how both speakers performed.

Music area: Magnepan 3.6, McIntosh MC2205 & C48, SVS SB13-Ultra, Oppo BDP 95 and assorted equipment.
Movie area: EMP Tek R5Bi, PSA XS30, Denon X2000, Oppo BDP 83.
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post #4383 of 4400 Old 01-24-2015, 10:00 PM
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Thanks. I hope you also enjoyed the 1970s/80s faux wood paneling. Rest assured, there is a red/orange carpeted wall also

It probably sounds like I'm being pretty hard on the Infinitys. Really though, I could easily find worse speakers and suddenly they would be a standout. They are actually one the of the best buys for the dollar in tower speakers.

Samsung, Sony, Denon, Infinity, EMP, Velodyne and SVS
Samsung PN64H5000 Recommended Settings

Last edited by Soulburner; 01-24-2015 at 10:59 PM.
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post #4384 of 4400 Old 01-24-2015, 11:33 PM
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good stuff,I like your music choices too

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post #4385 of 4400 Old 01-25-2015, 06:09 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tlopes View Post
Should I install presence speakers just above the screen to complement the sound stage and 5.2 surround? Ceiling is about 11ft and my Yamaha receiver has a pair of presence outputs. Just don't know how much this might improve the movie experience... Is this a worthy upgrade? Any thoughts? Loving my EMP speakers!!
Sure, just above your l+r. I bought the on walls for that purpose but am unable to install them in the correct place so haven't gotten them up yet. The bookshelf would probably be a better match.

First I would move the subs, both should not be up front. I have mine front right, left rear. Ideally they should be at the midpoint of the side walls for 2 subs which is not possible in my room.

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post #4386 of 4400 Old 01-25-2015, 10:00 AM
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Soulburner, excellent review, thanks for doing that. Quite the throwback look, but carpet and paneling are coming back.
At one point, maybe 4-5 years ago, the Infinity Primus were not on discount like today and those were most often at 299.00/sp. I never remember the EMPs being more than 400/pr. but I think you make your point, a pretty fair price comparison, even if the Primus were slightly more expensive!
Have you done a HT comparison?

Set up #1: EMP e5ti, e5Ci, and SLS Q line Audio surrounds, Outlaw LFM1 Plus sub, EMP 10i10i sub
Set up #2: Def Tech SM450, CLR2002, SLS Qline surrounds and Klipsch 12wD sub
Set up #3: JBL130, JBL120C and Klipsch synergy sub
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post #4387 of 4400 Old 01-25-2015, 03:59 PM
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Hi folks.
I have been listening to my Emps for a couple of months now and have been enjoying them.
However, I am still not fully convinced that I would need to bump up my volume to up to -10db to get a good theater like experience while watching blu-ray movies.
I feel that the 55ti towers and the 56ci center are putting out less volume than what i get out of the 5bi bookshelves that are running as surround. I dont think its all attributed to the placement of the speakers.
i played around a bit by angling the towers inwards pointing them to the main listening position and angling the center up a bit, again to point to the mlp. And tried Audyssey a few times as well.
the towers are about 12inches away from the back wall.

Any suggestions on what I should look at?

FYI.. i have them running with the SVS PB2000 sub.
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post #4388 of 4400 Old 01-25-2015, 05:25 PM
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Something sounds amiss, rahulp001. When you performed Audiossey, did you have the mic on a camera stand or tripod? For awhile, I was just proping my mic up with some pillows, but found that was dampening the mic interpetation. Anyway, not sure what is going on, but my EMPe5Ti are wicked loud for most movies at -10...

Set up #1: EMP e5ti, e5Ci, and SLS Q line Audio surrounds, Outlaw LFM1 Plus sub, EMP 10i10i sub
Set up #2: Def Tech SM450, CLR2002, SLS Qline surrounds and Klipsch 12wD sub
Set up #3: JBL130, JBL120C and Klipsch synergy sub
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post #4389 of 4400 Old 01-25-2015, 05:37 PM
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I was using the stand that they gave with the AVR. Were you clearing out all the furniture while running audessey?
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post #4390 of 4400 Old 01-25-2015, 05:56 PM
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No, I ran audossey in my primary LP, a recliner and previous attempt, I prop's the mic up to ~ ear level using a footstand and a couple pillows. Once I put the mic on a tripod on my chair, it improved the correction a lot!

Set up #1: EMP e5ti, e5Ci, and SLS Q line Audio surrounds, Outlaw LFM1 Plus sub, EMP 10i10i sub
Set up #2: Def Tech SM450, CLR2002, SLS Qline surrounds and Klipsch 12wD sub
Set up #3: JBL130, JBL120C and Klipsch synergy sub
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post #4391 of 4400 Old 01-25-2015, 07:57 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Elihawk View Post
Soulburner, excellent review, thanks for doing that. Quite the throwback look, but carpet and paneling are coming back.
At one point, maybe 4-5 years ago, the Infinity Primus were not on discount like today and those were most often at 299.00/sp. I never remember the EMPs being more than 400/pr. but I think you make your point, a pretty fair price comparison, even if the Primus were slightly more expensive!
Have you done a HT comparison?
Thanks. I have not done a HT comparison. My philosophy is if you can get music sounding how it should, then you should be just fine for HT. I'm sure some people would have a different opinion, but that's why I only test music. It's also easier for my brain to find differences in musical passages than in movies. Think of how we calibrate our displays. We use standards of measurement like test charts to dial them in. You need something as a reference to know how close you are to your ideal. Now if I was doing a subwoofer review there would definitely be movies added to my testing.

Samsung, Sony, Denon, Infinity, EMP, Velodyne and SVS
Samsung PN64H5000 Recommended Settings

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post #4392 of 4400 Old 01-25-2015, 08:09 PM
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I usually run at -9 which can be quite deafening depending on the movie, and I only have e5ti.

I finally got fed up with my setup, removed my out of position heights and put the EMP on walls on top of the e5ti. I ran calibration and now it's more deafening and sounds considerably better. The EMP heights are a huge improvement.

My wife will be so happy!

This is not a permanent setup as any bump would knock the height speakers over, but it bodes well for what I envisioned.
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I just came across the Aerial Acoustics 7T speakers and couldn't help but notice the similarity in design to the E55Ti. Some of the most beautiful speakers I've seen.

It certainly makes it tempting to own these EMP speakers, having something that at least appears to be a premium tower speaker for a modest price. But I'm eyeing a Chane A1rx-c pair. It would be straight up utilitarian, but in theory, superior. http://www.chanemusiccinema.com/chan...peakers/A1rx-c

Samsung, Sony, Denon, Infinity, EMP, Velodyne and SVS
Samsung PN64H5000 Recommended Settings
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post #4394 of 4400 Old Yesterday, 08:12 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Elihawk View Post
No, I ran audossey in my primary LP, a recliner and previous attempt, I prop's the mic up to ~ ear level using a footstand and a couple pillows. Once I put the mic on a tripod on my chair, it improved the correction a lot!
Thanks.
Will run another Audessey set up and see if that makes a difference.

HT Setup: EMPTek E55Ti (L&R), E56Ci (Center), E5Bi (surrounds), SVS PB-2000, DENON AVR x2100W, BENQ W1070
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post #4395 of 4400 Old Yesterday, 08:59 AM
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Someone who understands better than me can respond, but something about having the mic on a fat surface, like a book, the chair surface or a pillow can cause some reflections that will affect audessey. Edge affects of the surface or something...havign the mic "suspended in air" is the best option, but a tripod or stand would have a very slight edge affect.

Set up #1: EMP e5ti, e5Ci, and SLS Q line Audio surrounds, Outlaw LFM1 Plus sub, EMP 10i10i sub
Set up #2: Def Tech SM450, CLR2002, SLS Qline surrounds and Klipsch 12wD sub
Set up #3: JBL130, JBL120C and Klipsch synergy sub
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Correct, I used a tripod last night for the first time. I think it provided better results.

That's why all the mics are threaded. The software manufacturer (I do not have audessy) expects it on a tripod, but I'm not sure if they specify.

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post #4397 of 4400 Old Yesterday, 12:10 PM
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Hey guys,

Anyone hear anything about the new subs EMP RBH is working on?

Denon AVR-1713 | EMP E55Ti | EMP E56Ci | EMP E5Bi | BIC F-12
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post #4398 of 4400 Old Yesterday, 08:09 PM
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very quick impressions of my new e5Bi speakers.
1. They are going in my theater room to replace a couple SLS Q line gold speakers, which cannot hit below 110 hz. Right now I have them in my bedroom listening to some two channel music and have disconnected my JBL130s.
The JBL list for about the same price as the EMP, well, around 180/pr. The JBL130 are crap...
The E5Bi really have better bass than I expected. As least as compared to the JBL130, a much fuller sound, and of course the midbass is much better. Suprising, with no EQ, the high end is better as well. And of course they image well, much better than the JBL. When I got the JBLs for around 120/pr, the center was free. Turns out, from what I am hearing, I got the shaft on that deal!
once I get them mounted and placed in the theater, I will post more impression.
wow, was about done with the quick impressions, then Jessie James by Bruce Springsteen cued up and man, I am really impressed with the bass from these little guys- I got to be hitting 55 hz!

Set up #1: EMP e5ti, e5Ci, and SLS Q line Audio surrounds, Outlaw LFM1 Plus sub, EMP 10i10i sub
Set up #2: Def Tech SM450, CLR2002, SLS Qline surrounds and Klipsch 12wD sub
Set up #3: JBL130, JBL120C and Klipsch synergy sub
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I agree that the bass output the brand makes is sweet for the music and have been driving them in multi channel stereo with out the sub on video's too until I get the center speaker,very punchy

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I'm actually thinking of just going with the Chane A3 so I don't have to mess with stands. Who thinks that would make for an interesting comparison with the E5?
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Emp , Emp Tek , Emp Tek E10s Subwoofer , Emp Tek Ef30c Center Speaker , Emp Tek Ef30t Tower Speakers , Emp Tek E55tir Tower Speakers , Emp Tek Ef30 Bookshelf Speakers , Speaker Systems

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