**Official EMP Owner's Thread** - Page 148 - AVS | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #4411 of 4439 Old 01-27-2015, 12:11 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dsrussell View Post
Thanks for the snapshot, Elihawk. I'll be very interested in hearing more when you are setup in the theater. I enjoy reading other people's thoughts on the speakers I own and see how opinions differ from mine. I think different size rooms and acoustics will change many aspects of a speaker, including bass. In my room (3,400 cu. ft. with wood flooring), I think 60 Hz is really pushing it, but I haven't tested it out on frequency tones. However, the bass the R5Bi's could produce in my room seems precise and controlled, and I enjoyed it. I listened to it in stereo mode (without a subwoofer) for the first two weeks.

If you haven't read my review on the R5Bi's, don't. Wait until you have published your thoughts, then take a peak to see how our impressions coincide or differ. If you have read it, ignore it and assume I don't know what the heck I'm talking about.
One person could be talking about 60hz at 70dB being enough, while another is talking about 60hz at 85dB. All a matter of perspective at a given volume. Rooms size, etc will definitely play a role in what's 'enough' around the crossover points (80hz or so) with the R5 bookshelf. In a room your size, 60hz is fine if you're close to them and not getting reasonable loud or more. To fill the room, watching movies anywhere even remotely close to reference, etc....no way in hell I'd cross them at 60hz. A 5.25" mid-woofer would need to be a lot beefier and have a lot more enclosure volume to do that.

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post #4412 of 4439 Old 01-27-2015, 12:28 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ousooner2 View Post
One person could be talking about 60hz at 70dB being enough, while another is talking about 60hz at 85dB. All a matter of perspective at a given volume. Rooms size, etc will definitely play a role in what's 'enough' around the crossover points (80hz or so) with the R5 bookshelf. In a room your size, 60hz is fine if you're close to them and not getting reasonable loud or more. To fill the room, watching movies anywhere even remotely close to reference, etc....no way in hell I'd cross them at 60hz. A 5.25" mid-woofer would need to be a lot beefier and have a lot more enclosure volume to do that.
I think there was a misunderstanding in my post. I don't cross over at 60 Hz. I cross over at 80 Hz. But I was talking about the speakers in a 2.0 configuration and my subjective impressions of the quality (not necessarily depth) of bass in my room. If I was curious enough (and I wasn't, because I knew I'd be adding a subwoofer into the mix), I would have run some test frequencies and check that with my dB meter. BTW, my listening position is around 8 - 9 feet from the speakers.

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post #4413 of 4439 Old 01-27-2015, 01:06 PM
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Originally Posted by ousooner2 View Post
Jim Salk seems to think otherwise

I don't know enough about speaker design, but if Jim Salk has a tower with an MTM arrangement w/ ribbon tweeter...it must be doable. Keep in mind that planars and ribbons are slightly different
I may not be understanding it fully, but that's what I learned based on my research a couple of weeks ago. When a ribbon or planar tweeter is made taller than it is wide, it already has a very limited vertical dispersion. This prevents reflections off ceilings and floors, and gives a very wide horizontal sweet spot. That's why I question the benefits of an MTM configuration with those types of tweeters, but like you I'm not a speaker designer.
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post #4414 of 4439 Old 01-27-2015, 01:13 PM
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Originally Posted by gregoryperkins View Post
Sure, just above your l+r. I bought the on walls for that purpose but am unable to install them in the correct place so haven't gotten them up yet. The bookshelf would probably be a better match.

First I would move the subs, both should not be up front. I have mine front right, left rear. Ideally they should be at the midpoint of the side walls for 2 subs which is not possible in my room.
Any other thoughts on presence speakers and how they may enhance overall sound for movies? Thinking about adding presence speakers just above the screen and aligned with the mains.

Thanks for your thoughts gregoryperkins. Unfortunately I don't have much latitude on sub placement due to room aesthetics and WAF and that is one of the main reasons I opted for two subs instead of one; to minimize the need for the sub crawl and promote better blending with the mains.

Here is the pic again for those who may have missed it:
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post #4415 of 4439 Old 01-27-2015, 01:14 PM
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Btw, my suggesting 55 hz was not based on any measurements and could easily have been 60-65 hz (and my bedroom is absolutely brutal for sound, but hey it is mostly TV anyway)...I just know that I was hearing bass that I hadn't heard from the almost year of occassionally listening to music via the JBL130s. Now, the JBL have 4 inch woofers, so maybe that shouldn't be a suprise...
Anyway, in an awful room with no EQ and very little placement, the e5Bi were able to impress me with the midrange, of course, decent to very good bass (perhaps not lower than 60, but the tuba sounded great) and again in a terrible room, they put out an impressive soundstage and "depth". Hopefully, this weekend and before the superbowl, I will have them mounted in my theater!

Set up #1: EMP e5ti, e5Ci, and SLS Q line Audio surrounds, Outlaw LFM1 Plus sub, EMP 10i10i sub
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Set up #3: JBL130, JBL120C and Klipsch synergy sub
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post #4416 of 4439 Old 01-27-2015, 01:58 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dsrussell View Post
I think there was a misunderstanding in my post. I don't cross over at 60 Hz. I cross over at 80 Hz. But I was talking about the speakers in a 2.0 configuration and my subjective impressions of the quality (not necessarily depth) of bass in my room. If I was curious enough (and I wasn't, because I knew I'd be adding a subwoofer into the mix), I would have run some test frequencies and check that with my dB meter. BTW, my listening position is around 8 - 9 feet from the speakers.
Right. I knew you didn't mean YOU crossed them at 60hz, but I was just further pointing out that 60hz might be a tad too low for these bookshelves. Some have either asked about it or stated they are going to try 60hz or use 60hz. I see a lot of "what x-over should I use" in here and everywhere on these forums. Figured it'd be a good place for those new people getting their speakers after BF and x-mas to hear that there isn't a set place for the x-over for everyone. Too many factors. I'd say that unless you're listening to them relatively quietly and/or in a pretty small room...60hz would be out.

Sorry for the confusion

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Originally Posted by Soulburner View Post
I may not be understanding it fully, but that's what I learned based on my research a couple of weeks ago. When a ribbon or planar tweeter is made taller than it is wide, it already has a very limited vertical dispersion. This prevents reflections off ceilings and floors, and gives a very wide horizontal sweet spot. That's why I question the benefits of an MTM configuration with those types of tweeters, but like you I'm not a speaker designer.
Yeah I get what you're saying. I know that's the case, as far as dispersion patterns with MTM (dome tweeters) and that's the case with the planar types of tweeters (Height vs. Width). I figured if Salk and countless others are doing MTM's with the RAAL and other ribbons then I'm sure there's some sort of benefit to it. The most obvious would be higher efficiency and lower distortion


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Originally Posted by Elihawk View Post
Btw, my suggesting 55 hz was not based on any measurements and could easily have been 60-65 hz (and my bedroom is absolutely brutal for sound, but hey it is mostly TV anyway)...I just know that I was hearing bass that I hadn't heard from the almost year of occassionally listening to music via the JBL130s. Now, the JBL have 4 inch woofers, so maybe that shouldn't be a suprise...
Anyway, in an awful room with no EQ and very little placement, the e5Bi were able to impress me with the midrange, of course, decent to very good bass (perhaps not lower than 60, but the tuba sounded great) and again in a terrible room, they put out an impressive soundstage and "depth". Hopefully, this weekend and before the superbowl, I will have them mounted in my theater!
Sorry, I thought you meant you had them crossed at 60hz. They'll definitely put out some midbass punch and smoothly at that. I have mine (surrounds) crossed at 80hz since they're semi close to the wall and I don't really need them to go much lower


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Originally Posted by tlopes View Post
Any other thoughts on presence speakers and how they may enhance overall sound for movies? Thinking about adding presence speakers just above the screen and aligned with the mains.

Thanks for your thoughts gregoryperkins. Unfortunately I don't have much latitude on sub placement due to room aesthetics and WAF and that is one of the main reasons I opted for two subs instead of one; to minimize the need for the sub crawl and promote better blending with the mains.
Looks nice Tlopes. Wonder how the new sub(s) would perfo........oops. Nvm. Hahah. Seriously though, looks nice. Wish I had a dedicated theater room for a projector. Ugh. First world problems.
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post #4417 of 4439 Old 01-27-2015, 02:52 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tlopes View Post
Thanks for your thoughts gregoryperkins. Unfortunately I don't have much latitude on sub placement due to room aesthetics and WAF and that is one of the main reasons I opted for two subs instead of one; to minimize the need for the sub crawl and promote better blending with the mains.
The problem with having both up front is you don't really do anything for the nulls the long waves can create. It doesn't smooth out the bass response. Try moving them around sometime when she's not around. My right is similarly positioned to where you have yours, but the left is under the surround. If it sounds great at your seat, no big deal. The idea behind the 2nd and 4th sub is to smooth out the bass for all seats. The gain is negligible. I can't remember if I mentioned, I also have 2 1010i.
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post #4418 of 4439 Old 01-27-2015, 03:08 PM
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In the current setting, there is no sub so I am listening in 2 ch mode, so I have them essentially going full range. When I move them to surround duty, they will be crossed at 80, which is what got this round of upgrade started anyway- to make a long story short, my theater Yamaha AVR only allows one cross over point and I want my EMP fronts to play down to 80, which my SLS surround speakers aren't capable of...then I put in the BR Live, Die, Repeat! And now I am getting more capable surrounds...

Set up #1: EMP e5ti, e5Ci, and SLS Q line Audio surrounds, Outlaw LFM1 Plus sub, EMP 10i10i sub
Set up #2: Def Tech SM450, CLR2002, SLS Qline surrounds and Klipsch 12wD sub
Set up #3: JBL130, JBL120C and Klipsch synergy sub
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post #4419 of 4439 Old 01-27-2015, 08:17 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ousooner2 View Post
Right. I knew you didn't mean YOU crossed them at 60hz, but I was just further pointing out that 60hz might be a tad too low for these bookshelves. Some have either asked about it or stated they are going to try 60hz or use 60hz. I see a lot of "what x-over should I use" in here and everywhere on these forums. Figured it'd be a good place for those new people getting their speakers after BF and x-mas to hear that there isn't a set place for the x-over for everyone. Too many factors. I'd say that unless you're listening to them relatively quietly and/or in a pretty small room...60hz would be out.

Sorry for the confusion
No problem, and I agree with your statement 100 percent of crossing these @ 80 Hz. Since the R5Bi's are ported, they will have a steep rolloff, and perhaps that is why I liked the bass as much as I did. Nothing to muddy the waters.

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post #4420 of 4439 Old 01-28-2015, 05:39 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tlopes View Post
Any other thoughts on presence speakers and how they may enhance overall sound for movies? Thinking about adding presence speakers just above the screen and aligned with the mains.

Thanks for your thoughts gregoryperkins. Unfortunately I don't have much latitude on sub placement due to room aesthetics and WAF and that is one of the main reasons I opted for two subs instead of one; to minimize the need for the sub crawl and promote better blending with the mains.

Here is the pic again for those who may have missed it:
One thing I will suggest is moving your center forward, ideally you want the face of the center at the front edge of your media stand. As is right now, you are getting reflections off the surface, and moving it forward should improve sound a good bit. I would also make sure your front L and R speakers are pulled equally as far as the center.

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Originally Posted by Elihawk View Post
In the current setting, there is no sub so I am listening in 2 ch mode, so I have them essentially going full range. When I move them to surround duty, they will be crossed at 80, which is what got this round of upgrade started anyway- to make a long story short, my theater Yamaha AVR only allows one cross over point and I want my EMP fronts to play down to 80, which my SLS surround speakers aren't capable of...then I put in the BR Live, Die, Repeat! And now I am getting more capable surrounds...
Sounds like you need some more R5Bi's

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post #4421 of 4439 Old 01-28-2015, 09:10 AM
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Originally Posted by Transmaniacon View Post
One thing I will suggest is moving your center forward, ideally you want the face of the center at the front edge of your media stand. As is right now, you are getting reflections off the surface, and moving it forward should improve sound a good bit. I would also make sure your front L and R speakers are pulled equally as far as the center.
Thanks for this thought Transmaniacon! I hear what you're saying about my center and I previously had the center located at the front of the media stand. I moved it back to create more disbursement for the center channel sound. A while back, I posted that my center seats were getting better sound than the side seats (4 seats in a row). Someone recommended that I push my center back as far as possible to allow the sound to disburse and reach the outer chairs better. Seems like one solution causes yet another problem! I do understand your point and will move it forward again to compare between the two considering what you've said.

Any thoughts on presence speakers? Thanks again!

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post #4422 of 4439 Old 01-28-2015, 09:31 AM
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Originally Posted by tlopes View Post
Thanks for this thought Transmaniacon! I hear what you're saying about my center and I previously had the center located at the front of the media stand. I moved it back to create more disbursement for the center channel sound. A while back, I posted that my center seats were getting better sound than the side seats (4 seats in a row). Someone recommended that I push my center back as far as possible to allow the sound to disburse and reach the outer chairs better. Seems like one solution causes yet another problem! I do understand your point and will move it forward again to compare between the two considering what you've said.

Any thoughts on presence speakers? Thanks again!
Yeah that is a tricky situation, I guess try and see what sounds better. If you have the room, you could move your seats back some, but try moving the center first. I would probably prefer to have better sound where I sit the most.

Regarding presence speakers, they definitely make the sound stage taller, but I think wide speakers are more effective, though not many people can easily accommodate them. Perhaps try your surrounds up there and see how it changes the sound, before you pull the trigger.
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post #4423 of 4439 Old 01-28-2015, 12:18 PM
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I currently have the E55Ti's and matching E56Ci center.
Due to WAF i was using orbs as my surrounds, but I upgraded to 7.1.2 and the orbs will move to the surround backs. I was going to pick up the emptek bookshelves, but out of stock for now.
I also have a pair of JBL L830's and thought about using them as my surrounds.

http://www.jbl.com/estore/jbl/us/pro...atId=cat140013

They're great speakers. but would like your opinions on having different brands for surrounds.
Do you think, It's worth matching the surround speakers with your mains?
Any and all thoughts appreciated.
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post #4424 of 4439 Old 01-28-2015, 12:37 PM
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Ideally you'd like them to match, but honestly most wouldn't notice a difference unless they were 2 vastly different sonic signatures (very bright midrange/treble vs. a warm midrange/treble, etc)

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post #4425 of 4439 Old 01-28-2015, 12:38 PM
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In a perfect world, where women agree with everything we tell them and money is not issue, I would say yes, your surrounds should match. however, until this week, my surrounds didn't match (still don't, but at least i have matching surround to put in my theater). Since something like 5% or less of your total content is surround material, that SHOULD be the weak link if your system if budget or space doesn't allow them to match.

So yes, I think the JBLs would make fine surrounds, and yes, eventually, the most seemless HT experience will be 5 or 7 speakers all with the same tweeter. But I wouldn't bust my budget, tick off the wife, or sell the dog to get it done.

Set up #1: EMP e5ti, e5Ci, and SLS Q line Audio surrounds, Outlaw LFM1 Plus sub, EMP 10i10i sub
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post #4426 of 4439 Old 01-28-2015, 12:47 PM
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Has anyone explored the sonic differences between the e5Bi with the port plugged versus not plugged? I have an easy option of wall mounting my e5Bi, but the port will not have room to breath...or I have to buy some fancy mounts...

Another possibility I have thought of is to run a metal strip to the mounting screw and then into a stud in my ceiling. The drawback would be a 5/8-3/4 inch strip of metal running across/downward though the area just outside the rear port...issues?

Set up #1: EMP e5ti, e5Ci, and SLS Q line Audio surrounds, Outlaw LFM1 Plus sub, EMP 10i10i sub
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Set up #3: JBL130, JBL120C and Klipsch synergy sub
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post #4427 of 4439 Old 01-28-2015, 12:47 PM
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Ha!
thanks for the replies
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post #4428 of 4439 Old 01-28-2015, 01:15 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Elihawk View Post
Has anyone explored the sonic differences between the e5Bi with the port plugged versus not plugged? I have an easy option of wall mounting my e5Bi, but the port will not have room to breath...or I have to buy some fancy mounts...

Another possibility I have thought of is to run a metal strip to the mounting screw and then into a stud in my ceiling. The drawback would be a 5/8-3/4 inch strip of metal running across/downward though the area just outside the rear port...issues?
I have not. I wonder if they've taken BSC into account when designing the crossover so that they can be placed near a wall and it be okay.

You can try it yourself though by using a thick sock or rag. I doubt it'll make a huge difference with that size driver and enclosure volume though. Could be wrong though.

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post #4429 of 4439 Old 01-28-2015, 03:46 PM
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I plan on using the 901's for front wide speakers driven by the Kenwood(double duty input from the Xonar for stereo too),should make for a full front stage
gotta wait for Emptek to stock that center speaker though than it's game time

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post #4430 of 4439 Old 01-28-2015, 07:42 PM
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I don't really think a 901 has a place in a surround sound system. My mom bought a set in 1980 and the purpose of it was to give an immersive experience by reflecting off walls, 8 firing backward, one forward driver.

That being said, she never had them positioned correctly and I kept turning them around so that the 8 speakers were facing forward. It was a game, she turned them back.

Width speakers are supposed to be placed at the first reflection point. I can't see how a 901 would do anything but mess things up. If I was going to use them, I'd use them for surrounds.

Mom's speakers are in a friend's sports barn, playing stereo music as they were meant to...

I still have the Hafler pre/amp and Dynaco tuner she BUILT from kit to run the Bose.
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post #4431 of 4439 Old 01-28-2015, 07:55 PM
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yes, I think trying the 901s in any capacity for HT would be a disaster, but hey, they make work in the right/wrong room!?

Set up #1: EMP e5ti, e5Ci, and SLS Q line Audio surrounds, Outlaw LFM1 Plus sub, EMP 10i10i sub
Set up #2: Def Tech SM450, CLR2002, SLS Qline surrounds and Klipsch 12wD sub
Set up #3: JBL130, JBL120C and Klipsch synergy sub
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post #4432 of 4439 Old 01-28-2015, 08:16 PM
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I'll let you know what the results are when that time comes but your experience does sound likely and they'll remain off for HT use

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post #4433 of 4439 Old 01-28-2015, 10:04 PM
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I've owned the 901s and would never attempt a surround application. It might be that the best chance at surround sound would be a 4.1 system. Since the 901s give you a whole wall of sound, adding rear speakers and a good sub could work. I don't see a center channel working that well, but I could be wrong.

Music area: Magnepan 3.6, McIntosh MC2205 & C48, SVS SB13-Ultra, Oppo BDP 95 and assorted equipment.
Movie area: EMP Tek R5Bi, PSA XS30, Denon X2000, Oppo BDP 83.
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post #4434 of 4439 Old Yesterday, 07:51 AM
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I did try plugging the ports on the e5Bi last night...I think it affected the bass abit, and while the sonic tone was abit different, i couldn't convince myself it was better or worse. I think for surrounds, it will make no difference...

Set up #1: EMP e5ti, e5Ci, and SLS Q line Audio surrounds, Outlaw LFM1 Plus sub, EMP 10i10i sub
Set up #2: Def Tech SM450, CLR2002, SLS Qline surrounds and Klipsch 12wD sub
Set up #3: JBL130, JBL120C and Klipsch synergy sub
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post #4435 of 4439 Old Yesterday, 08:06 PM
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mounted the e5Bi in my basement theater and reran audessey. As expected, they sound excellent, but it is almost a waste to have a speaker that good playing 5% of the content! My SLS Q line speakers were good in every respect except they couldn't handle the crossover. Put in the first scene of Live, Die, Repeat...at -14.o db and no distortion, but that movie put them to the test for sure!
now, the only issue is that I am back to the crappy JBLs in my bedroom.

Set up #1: EMP e5ti, e5Ci, and SLS Q line Audio surrounds, Outlaw LFM1 Plus sub, EMP 10i10i sub
Set up #2: Def Tech SM450, CLR2002, SLS Qline surrounds and Klipsch 12wD sub
Set up #3: JBL130, JBL120C and Klipsch synergy sub
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post #4436 of 4439 Old Yesterday, 08:22 PM
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I have to say that I am much happier having all my 9 speakers emp. Maybe it is placebo? The heights are certainly bigger and positioned correctly plus I raised the surrounds to ear level.

I haven't run a really loud movie through it yet though.
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post #4437 of 4439 Old Yesterday, 10:15 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Elihawk View Post
mounted the e5Bi in my basement theater and reran audessey. As expected, they sound excellent, but it is almost a waste to have a speaker that good playing 5% of the content! My SLS Q line speakers were good in every respect except they couldn't handle the crossover. Put in the first scene of Live, Die, Repeat...at -14.o db and no distortion, but that movie put them to the test for sure!
now, the only issue is that I am back to the crappy JBLs in my bedroom.
Interesting, Elihawk. When I tested the R5Bi's, I really had no intention of actually keeping them. I was simply curious because of a review from a reviewer I highly respect. I had every intention to send them back and listen to a speaker I was more interested in (the JBL 530s). After a couple of weeks (and before I added my subwoofer into the mix), my thoughts changed. I began wondering about the R55Ti's and placing the R5Bi's for my rear speakers. Once I connected my subwoofer, all that changed. I saw no need for the towers. Not that the towers aren't excellent. It's just that these bookshelf speakers gave me exactly what I was looking for.
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Music area: Magnepan 3.6, McIntosh MC2205 & C48, SVS SB13-Ultra, Oppo BDP 95 and assorted equipment.
Movie area: EMP Tek R5Bi, PSA XS30, Denon X2000, Oppo BDP 83.
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post #4438 of 4439 Old Today, 01:38 PM
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no doubt the smaller models would be the easier to demo,the idea of repackaging the towers and returning them is ugly,I've grown too fond already besides being a lot of effort

1.AsusXonarD2X...Kenwood8540...CarverTFM55x....... .901Bose
2.nVidiaHDmi...DENON AVR-4520CI...EMPTeKR55Tix4... R56Ci(coming soon)...SVSUltra/2...Toshiba55WX800U

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post #4439 of 4439 Old Today, 03:51 PM
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I've finally gotten to the point where I'm ready to wall mount the E5bi/R5bi's. Does anyone have a mount that they could recommend keeping in mind that the speaker now has two threaded holes in the rear of the speaker?
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