**Official EMP Owner's Thread** - Page 168 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #5011 of 7928 Old 06-09-2015, 06:47 AM
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Originally Posted by dp3dp View Post
It is "loud" which is a relative term. I do enjoy my music loud and the speakers can definitely go a lot louder for very short periods of time without distortion its just the dang tweeters cutting out. I turn it down and the tweeter come backs no issues. It is interesting when my wife and I watch movies at -6 -7 or "loud" the tweeters have not issues I'm guessing due to not having such a constant strain on them like it does during music. I sent Brian an update and jokingly asked him about purchasing RBH tweeters to replace the EMP ones "now" that EMP is part of the RBH family.
Yeah music is generally a more demanding load than home theater, where you only have occasional dynamic peaks. How far away do you sit from the speakers?

Samsung PN60F5300 | Denon AVR-1713 | EMP E55Ti | EMP E56Ci | EMP E5Bi | Outlaw Ultra-X12
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post #5012 of 7928 Old 06-09-2015, 06:52 AM
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For movies its 10 feet if I'm sitting up and more if reclined and music I'm all around the house. So any recommendations on replacement tweeters?




EDIT: 10 feet from the Center Channel
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post #5013 of 7928 Old 06-09-2015, 08:42 AM
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With them coming back on after going off I have to wonder if there's some sort of protection built into the amp, Pioneer or the x-over. I'd ask Brian if anything in the x-over would do this. Nothing that I know of, but I've been wrong before.

You shouldn't need replacement tweeters. Figure out the issue first. Finding tweeters that are going to match in sensitivity, while being a few dB's more sensitive and sound decent is going to be more hassle than it's worth. At that point you're better off trying a more sensitive speaker.

Currently Auditioning: Klipsch RP-150M
SOLD: EMP e55ti / EMP e56ci / EMP e5bi / (2) e1010i
FOR SALE --- 1 EMP Tek/RBH Sound e1010i sub: http://www.avsforum.com/forum/209-au...al-10-sub.html
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post #5014 of 7928 Old 06-09-2015, 09:07 AM
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Thank you it does seem weird. He is looking into seeing if any of the RBH tweeters will fit the Tweeter plate....
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post #5015 of 7928 Old 06-09-2015, 11:37 AM
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I was told they wouldn't. Now if you remove the dome from the tweeter faceplate and put in a new dome tweeter that's the same size..sure. Just have to hope the screw points line up. Still..if it's happening now then it'll happen again. It's not the tweeter. It wouldn't just stop and then come back.

Currently Auditioning: Klipsch RP-150M
SOLD: EMP e55ti / EMP e56ci / EMP e5bi / (2) e1010i
FOR SALE --- 1 EMP Tek/RBH Sound e1010i sub: http://www.avsforum.com/forum/209-au...al-10-sub.html
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post #5016 of 7928 Old 06-09-2015, 11:53 AM
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Any recommendations what to do other then to turn it down?
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post #5017 of 7928 Old 06-09-2015, 12:14 PM
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Just need to find out the root cause. Could be something in the passive x-over (contact EMP/RBH about this) that shuts it down due to thermal/heat, power compression, dc current?, etc. Twenty bucks says there's a polyswitch or something of that nature on the crossover. It'll shut the tweeter down if it gets too much wattage and will reset/restart/start-playing-again when it has cooled down. Sounds like your issue. You shouldn't need to be sending that much power to these anyways. Mine will play at -5 to -10dB from my Denon X1000 just fine. Granted I don't run them that high for long. Try backing off the gains of that XPA-3 a little.

Have you swapped the left and right? You say it's happening to the right speaker. Try swapping the left and right on the back of the AVR and see if your issue moves to the left speaker. If it does then perhaps you have the gains a little mismatched where one side is getting more power than the x-over can take before going into a protect-like mode.

Currently Auditioning: Klipsch RP-150M
SOLD: EMP e55ti / EMP e56ci / EMP e5bi / (2) e1010i
FOR SALE --- 1 EMP Tek/RBH Sound e1010i sub: http://www.avsforum.com/forum/209-au...al-10-sub.html

Last edited by ousooner2; 06-09-2015 at 12:19 PM.
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post #5018 of 7928 Old 06-09-2015, 12:32 PM
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Interesting. I am talking to Brian about the issue so we will see what the recommendation is. Likely just turn it down. It is interesting on the receiver all the EQ and gains are set exactly the same. The other interesting thing is it will happen to the left if I continue to play it after the right channel tweeter has cut out. and this pay narrow down the issue is it has happened on the center channel when playing music in "Dolby Music" mode on the receiver. So I thin kyou are right in saying that it is the internal crossover shutting the tweeter down. Its just weird because its not at "reference" levels and there is no distortion coming from the tweeter or any other speaker for that matter.


Ousooner I really appreciate your help with this issue. Additionally I'm sure you have helped a lot of Emp Tek Owners over the years but you are the one the provided the information for me to make the decision to purchase EMP speakers over 2 years ago. So Thank You for that! I have loved every minute of them and play them on a daily basis for at least an hour and a half. It is interesting that this didn't happen when I first bought them and only recently started happening maybe a few months ago or so as I purchased the Emotiva XPA-3 when I purchased the speakers.
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post #5019 of 7928 Old 06-09-2015, 01:09 PM
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Great to hear you're still enjoying them! Glad I could help! Now tell Brian that Clark P. has helped so they'll send me the sub(s) and Elite Impression series to review so I can get more people interested!! haha

If you're handy you can have a look at the x-over and see if there's a polyswitch there. You could technically just cut it out of the 'chain' and you wouldn't have that issue. Granted it's there for protection. I'd say it could be faulty, if that happens, but with you saying it happens on all speakers...doubtful it's faulty on all of them. Could be a bad batch, but again unlikely. Have you tried to bypass the XPA-3 and just run them off the AVR yet? I'd try that and see if they suffer from this issue. If not, you know the issue lies with the XPA-3. Either too much power, faulty channels letting some DC bleed through or something weird like that. They could try to send you another x-over, have you swap it and see if it still suffers from it. If not, then it's very possible the batch for those polyswitches, if there is one, was bad from the manufacturer.

Currently Auditioning: Klipsch RP-150M
SOLD: EMP e55ti / EMP e56ci / EMP e5bi / (2) e1010i
FOR SALE --- 1 EMP Tek/RBH Sound e1010i sub: http://www.avsforum.com/forum/209-au...al-10-sub.html
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post #5020 of 7928 Old 06-09-2015, 01:12 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dp3dp View Post
Interesting. I am talking to Brian about the issue so we will see what the recommendation is. Likely just turn it down. It is interesting on the receiver all the EQ and gains are set exactly the same. The other interesting thing is it will happen to the left if I continue to play it after the right channel tweeter has cut out. and this pay narrow down the issue is it has happened on the center channel when playing music in "Dolby Music" mode on the receiver. So I thin kyou are right in saying that it is the internal crossover shutting the tweeter down.
This right here says it all. It's got to be your crossovers/safety feature built in, considering it happens to all of them.

Why this started happening lately, who knows. Are the EMP's not playing that loudly when you crank it? With the amp you have, it should be plenty loud! Or are these speakers really that inefficient?
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post #5021 of 7928 Old 06-09-2015, 01:17 PM
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My area is pretty large and very open. They'll play at -10dB for awhile if I want them too. No audible distortion either. They're 88dB. Not bad at all really.

Currently Auditioning: Klipsch RP-150M
SOLD: EMP e55ti / EMP e56ci / EMP e5bi / (2) e1010i
FOR SALE --- 1 EMP Tek/RBH Sound e1010i sub: http://www.avsforum.com/forum/209-au...al-10-sub.html
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post #5022 of 7928 Old 06-09-2015, 01:32 PM
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Originally Posted by Elihawk View Post
Okay, question that does not involve the new and as of yet unseen EMPtek subwoofer...

As everyone may remember, I bought a pair of Philharmonitors that Dennis Murphy put a BMR driver as the midrange. Excellent speaker, mostly because of the RAAL ribbon tweeter and the clarity it brings, but not my point. I have used them exclusively in my bedroom in a music only set up and just recently moved them to a 5.1 living room system to test them for HT applications (and temp replacing as set of Def Tech SM450s)...
okay, thats the set up, here is the question. i have a Denon 1613 in that set up and i ran Audessey and it tells me my Phils are "out of phase" Check all wiring 3 times and there is no issue with the wiring (black to black, red to red). Brought the SM450s back, and and no phase issues with them. I ran Audessey about 4 times and it gives me the phase issue every time. The system doesn't sound bad, but I haven't really given it a good test...Thoughts?
I was just reading the FAQ and came across this, so I copied it and came looking for your post.


b)1. Why is Audyssey reporting that my speakers are out of phase?

MultEQ detects absolute phase for each speaker during the measurements. Occasionally it may report an 'out of phase' error. If this happens to you, the first thing to do is to check that the physical wiring of all your speakers is correct, both at the speaker and at the AVR. They should all be connected positive to positive and negative to negative. If they are, and Audyssey still reports an out of phase condition, then it is probably because some speakers are deliberately designed with intentional phase reversals internally (usually to address Crossover problems). MultEQ detects that and reports an error. If this happens to you, and you are sure all your wiring is correct, just press 'skip' and carry on with your calibration. Doing this does not affect anything - MultEQ only reports the possible reversal of wiring - it does not automatically switch the phase.
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post #5023 of 7928 Old 06-09-2015, 02:10 PM
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Hey, look what I found out.. and here's the answer:

"Looking further at the E55Ti crossover we see a couple of ceramic resistors used to pad the level of the midrange, as well as a poly switch device used for tweeter protection. Many manufacturers use these devices, also known as PTC's, to protect the tweeter during large sustained output which while rarely occurring in real program material, but always occurs when using a sweeping sine signal generator to measure speakers at high output levels which is what our LMS measurement system uses."

It is indeed the crossovers...

http://www.audioholics.com/tower-spe...i-introduction
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post #5024 of 7928 Old 06-09-2015, 02:13 PM
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Good find. Didn't think about looking at the reviews pics

Here it is..





I still think you can get by with turning the gains down a hair. Just try it at least.

Currently Auditioning: Klipsch RP-150M
SOLD: EMP e55ti / EMP e56ci / EMP e5bi / (2) e1010i
FOR SALE --- 1 EMP Tek/RBH Sound e1010i sub: http://www.avsforum.com/forum/209-au...al-10-sub.html
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post #5025 of 7928 Old 06-09-2015, 02:14 PM
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Yup. Troubleshooting completed.
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post #5026 of 7928 Old 06-09-2015, 03:12 PM
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Why didn't Brian think of that??
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post #5027 of 7928 Old 06-09-2015, 04:34 PM
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Why didn't Brian think of that??
Good question...
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post #5028 of 7928 Old 06-09-2015, 06:11 PM
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I would guess this is like a safety feature in a car...might be able to change the setting or even disable it, but NO representative of that company would ever suggest it.

Set up #1: EMP e5Ti, e5Ci, and EMP e5Bi surrounds, Outlaw LFM1 Plus sub, SVS NSD SB12 sub, Marantz Slimeline 1504 AV receiver
Set up #2: Def Tech SM450, CLR2002, SLS Qline surrounds and EMPtek10i10i sub, Denon 1910 AV receiver
Set up #3: Philharmonics- BMR in a 2.0 system, music only, Yamaha RXV-363 AV receiver
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post #5029 of 7928 Old 06-10-2015, 04:24 AM
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Yeah if he tells you to take that out, then any damage that might ensue is on them.

Occasionally I will listen to music at around -7.5, and have had no issues with the tweeters cutting out. I sit about 10' away and just drive them with a Denon AVR, I think the best solution is to just turn down the volume a little. You can try moving the speakers/seating closer and this will help improve your SPL some.

Samsung PN60F5300 | Denon AVR-1713 | EMP E55Ti | EMP E56Ci | EMP E5Bi | Outlaw Ultra-X12
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post #5030 of 7928 Old 06-10-2015, 05:30 AM
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I find that those rare times when I want to hear some music loud, my Sennheiser headphones are my best bet! In my system, and of course this depends on the recording, but for music, anything over -10 db is "I don't want to tick off the neighbors" kind of loud. But the EMPs play clean and loud at that volume in my 14 x 28 x 8 room...

Set up #1: EMP e5Ti, e5Ci, and EMP e5Bi surrounds, Outlaw LFM1 Plus sub, SVS NSD SB12 sub, Marantz Slimeline 1504 AV receiver
Set up #2: Def Tech SM450, CLR2002, SLS Qline surrounds and EMPtek10i10i sub, Denon 1910 AV receiver
Set up #3: Philharmonics- BMR in a 2.0 system, music only, Yamaha RXV-363 AV receiver
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post #5031 of 7928 Old 06-10-2015, 07:28 AM
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Still...unless he's listening at --5dB for an extended period of time they shouldn't be cutting off. If you turn the XPA-3 gains down a hair and they still aren't loud enough for you then your only options are:

1. cut the polyswitch
2. find new, more efficient speakers (93+dB or so); a LOOOT of options like this out there today

Currently Auditioning: Klipsch RP-150M
SOLD: EMP e55ti / EMP e56ci / EMP e5bi / (2) e1010i
FOR SALE --- 1 EMP Tek/RBH Sound e1010i sub: http://www.avsforum.com/forum/209-au...al-10-sub.html
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post #5032 of 7928 Old 06-10-2015, 09:40 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ousooner2 View Post
2. find new, more efficient speakers (93+dB or so); a LOOOT of options like this out there today

Samsung PN64H5000 (recommended settings)
Denon AVR-X4000
A little R&R: Reaction Audio CX-10 (2) | Rythmik Audio F12 (2)
And a pair of Emotiva Airmotiv 5s
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post #5033 of 7928 Old 06-11-2015, 01:53 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ViperVenom18 View Post
Hey, look what I found out.. and here's the answer:

"Looking further at the E55Ti crossover we see a couple of ceramic resistors used to pad the level of the midrange, as well as a poly switch device used for tweeter protection. Many manufacturers use these devices, also known as PTC's, to protect the tweeter during large sustained output which while rarely occurring in real program material, but always occurs when using a sweeping sine signal generator to measure speakers at high output levels which is what our LMS measurement system uses."

It is indeed the crossovers...

http://www.audioholics.com/tower-spe...i-introduction

Thank You for help troubleshooting. I guess this is an interesting conundrum of what I should do. Do I cut it or just turn it down? I will talk to Brian some more on his suggestions. I may try playing with the EQ / gain some more and see if I can find a happy medium where I can turn it up and not have the tweeter cut out. I do find it interesting that this didn't happen in the beginning and now it is happening. The front stage itself has not changed sense purchasing the speakers as the speakers were always run off of the XPA-3. I did replace my Klipsch back surrounds with the EMP book shelf speakers that were acting as the side surrounds. This happened when I purchased Emp Tek's surrounds sound speakers for the sides. Again, this did not change the front stage but I just find it interesting that the tweeter cutting out did not happen in the beginning.
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post #5034 of 7928 Old 06-11-2015, 09:21 PM
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Originally Posted by dp3dp View Post
Thank You for help troubleshooting. I guess this is an interesting conundrum of what I should do. Do I cut it or just turn it down? I will talk to Brian some more on his suggestions. I may try playing with the EQ / gain some more and see if I can find a happy medium where I can turn it up and not have the tweeter cut out. I do find it interesting that this didn't happen in the beginning and now it is happening. The front stage itself has not changed sense purchasing the speakers as the speakers were always run off of the XPA-3. I did replace my Klipsch back surrounds with the EMP book shelf speakers that were acting as the side surrounds. This happened when I purchased Emp Tek's surrounds sound speakers for the sides. Again, this did not change the front stage but I just find it interesting that the tweeter cutting out did not happen in the beginning.
You should point this issue out to Brian, since we all know what the issue is at this point. See what he has to say.

Then let us know

Glad to help!
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post #5035 of 7928 Old 06-12-2015, 10:20 AM
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Everyone might want to check EMP's website right about now...
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post #5036 of 7928 Old 06-12-2015, 10:24 AM
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post #5037 of 7928 Old 06-12-2015, 10:33 AM
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Wow, a company that doesn’t describe their newest products in English and doesn’t give any frequency response, does NOT instill a lot of confidence. And on the subwoofers they do show a frequency response, they don’t add the plus/minus dB limiting parameter, making it meaningless. Why would anyone choose EMP Tek for their subwoofer needs at those prices when SVS, Outlaw and Rythmik have superior products for the same money or less?

Music area: Magnepan 3.6, McIntosh MC2205 amp & C48 preamp, SVS SB13-Ultra, Oppo BDP 95, dbx 3BX, and assorted equipment.
Movie area: EMP Tek E5Bi (were rebadged to R5Bi), RBH/EMP Tek R55Ti, PSA S3000i, Denon X2000, Oppo BDP 83.
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post #5038 of 7928 Old 06-12-2015, 10:36 AM
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1)

Side note, I am happy to announce that I just purchased:

-EMP Tek R55Ti Tower Speakers (x2)
-EMP Tek R56Ci Center Channel Speaker
-EMP Tek R55Wi Surround On-wall Speaker (x2)

All in Red Burl Gloss Finish.

I'll be posting photo's and reactions once I get them all set up!

2)

It seems it is good timing that they are releasing their new series of subwoofers soon! Because I'm looking for a pair of subwoofers to match the new speakers I just bought. Happy early birthday to me!

3)

I'm replacing an aging Def Tech 5.1 system/towers I've had for years. Speakers are not bad at all, but their SQ is terrible. Decent for movies, but that's about it.
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post #5039 of 7928 Old 06-12-2015, 10:39 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dsrussell View Post
Wow, a company that doesn’t describe their newest products in English and doesn’t give any frequency response, does NOT instill a lot of confidence. And on the subwoofers they do show a frequency response, they don’t add the plus/minus dB limiting parameter, making it meaningless. Why would anyone choose EMP Tek for their subwoofer needs at those prices when SVS, Outlaw and Rythmik have superior products for the same money or less?
They probably have all this information, it just seems like the web-team are using the links as "placeholders." The descriptions are not in "english", but rather gibberish (no real language at all). This just means they are working on putting all the information on the website.


I'm not defending them 100%, as I think they should not have active links for a product until it's 100% ready to post. However, you can tell they're not finished.
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post #5040 of 7928 Old 06-12-2015, 10:39 AM
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Well I will give them the benefit of the doubt, it's not fully updated right now.

But if I had to guess, it's probably got similar extension to the PB-1000, but likely more output and a nicer cabinet. Will have to wait and see when all the info is there.

Samsung PN60F5300 | Denon AVR-1713 | EMP E55Ti | EMP E56Ci | EMP E5Bi | Outlaw Ultra-X12
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