**Official EMP Owner's Thread** - Page 178 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #5311 of 5349 Old 08-17-2015, 06:07 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by distant30 View Post
The X1000 has Audyssey XT and I ve been using it. I'm thinking XT32 with its higher resolution may make a significant improvement on XT's result.
I'm driving R5Bi front L/R with the R5Ci center with an AVR-X2000 in a 17.5'x13.5'x8' living room, open to others on 2 sides. Audyssey XT does some good things in my setup to make it sound good, but it isn't perfect. Nor is XT32.

You'll have to give us more information about what is missing/what you're after, someone may be able to help.

First, which Emp Tek speakers did you get?
Do you have a sub/subs? If so, what model(s)?
What specifically are you trying to improve? (dialogue clarity, midbass response, etc.)
What are you using the setup for? Music/Movies/TV/Gaming/etc. and what percentages for each.
How loud do you listen on average?
What is your room layout and dimensions? And is it sealed off or open to others?

EDIT: Just saw your sig: EMP R55ti, R56ci, 2xI12. So you can skip the first 2 on that list above.

Last edited by smcmillan2; 08-17-2015 at 06:17 PM.
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post #5312 of 5349 Old 08-17-2015, 06:29 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dsrussell View Post
No, not necessarily. People look to the top Audyssey when they are integrating two subwoofers, which I don’t believe you are doing. I’d say get the speakers positioned where you have a nice, large soundstage with a wide, solid sweet spot. Small locational adjustments can help give you better sound at the listening position. It would also help to find out what exactly you do not like about the speakers and what you are trying to improve. Is your room considered bright (wood/tile floors, bare walls) or soft (carpeting, overstuffed furniture)? How far are you from the listening position to the speakers?
I'm having a pretty good soundstage and good imaging currently, LP is 9 ft to both mains and also 9 between mains. Floor is carpeted, one wall has thick curtains, one is not and Audyssey does the correction on the bare side speaker consistently over many runs, so curtain is planned for the barewall.

I like the EMPs fine, especially after the towers' bass is remedied with the i12s, I just am thinking of ways to improve the sound of the setup in general with the current EMPs, and first thing came to mind is a better Audyssey version. But that reason alone is not really enough to justify the purchase of a new AVR so I also want to know whether the more expensive AVR's hardware could also have an impact on the sound as well. The DSPs definitely will help with movies but I'm interested in knowing how much will it improve stereo music 2.1. My use of the system probably is around 85% of the time for music, 7.5% for movie, 7.5% for TV (recorded mostly).

I'm streaming music to the X1000 from Apple Music via network airplay and wonders the sound quality can be also improved by having better compression methods. The problem is I like the huge selection that Apple has despite its rudimentary GUI. I tried Spotify and found both their sound quality and selection worse than Apple's (personally and subjectively only) though I've read somewhere that Spotify has a higher bitrate than Apple music (ie. 320 vs 256). I considered Tidal for FLAC music but really not a big fan of its smaller selection compared to aapl. Hard copy is not an option anymore for me so all the hifi format medium are not in the equation.

In short, the source of the sound and the hardware/software combo that plays the sound are the two that I'm thinking of.

Of course anyone has any suggestion on any other factor that i should look into please do give. (just don't tell me to buy newer and more expensive speakers because the thought did cross my mind and no can't do )

Cheers

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Speakers: EMP R55ti, R56ci, 2xI12
No surrounds yet
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post #5313 of 5349 Old 08-17-2015, 06:40 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by smcmillan2 View Post
I'm driving R5Bi front L/R with the R5Ci center with an AVR-X2000 in a 17.5'x13.5'x8' living room, open to others on 2 sides. Audyssey XT does some good things in my setup to make it sound good, but it isn't perfect. Nor is XT32.

You'll have to give us more information about what is missing/what you're after, someone may be able to help.

First, which Emp Tek speakers did you get?
Do you have a sub/subs? If so, what model(s)?
What specifically are you trying to improve? (dialogue clarity, midbass response, etc.)
What are you using the setup for? Music/Movies/TV/Gaming/etc. and what percentages for each.
How loud do you listen on average?
What is your room layout and dimensions? And is it sealed off or open to others?

EDIT: Just saw your sig: EMP R55ti, R56ci, 2xI12. So you can skip the first 2 on that list above.
Some more info provided in the post above. Depends on time/activities, loudness varies a great deal for me from around -40db to -10,-5 db (movies only)

Damn, i need to post a pic of the setup to give a better idea, describing/typing it on the ipad is laborious.

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Speakers: EMP R55ti, R56ci, 2xI12
No surrounds yet
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post #5314 of 5349 Old 08-17-2015, 06:43 PM
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Originally Posted by gregoryperkins View Post
Do you have multiple subs? If not, I'd spend the money on speakers before upgrading the receiver.
Agreed. I do have 2 subs.

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Speakers: EMP R55ti, R56ci, 2xI12
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post #5315 of 5349 Old 08-17-2015, 07:02 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by distant30 View Post
My use of the system probably is around 85% of the time for music, 7.5% for movie, 7.5% for TV (recorded mostly).

I'm streaming music to the X1000 from Apple Music via network airplay and wonders the sound quality can be also improved by having better compression methods.
The compression method won't change with Audyssey levels - That's all up to your source.

You need a different source for your music. Might try playing with the different Audyssey options (Flat, etc.) but what you're describing is poor quality rips. Been there with friends and family members, can't get past "Garbage in, garbage out".
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post #5316 of 5349 Old 08-17-2015, 08:27 PM
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Originally Posted by dsrussell View Post

For the other problems, I'd be on the phone with EMP Tek. You need to be happy with your product, so they need to repair all issues.
I am now having a repeat issue. For the two pairs of R5Bis, Audyssey calibrates the pairs' crossover differently when in same front position.

For example, when I have pair X in front, they always get 60Hz crossovers. If I switch out and put pair Y in the front they get 90 to 110 Hz. Both pair X and pair Y always get 40Hz as rears (rear position is near a corner is why.) I just switched them around, since I need the ones in back that have good mount holes, and the ones I had in rear came out as 90 Hz by Audyssey. I reran it to make sure, and 90 Hz again on the second test with that pair up front. I then switched the pair back to the rears, and the rears back to the front where they had been. Nothing else changed. I ran Audyssey, and sure enough that pair got 60 Hz in front as they always do. I ran Audyssey a second time to be sure and 60 Hz again. Everything else was the same in all those tests, and one pair got 60 Hz in two tests where they were in front and the other pair got 90 Hz in two other tests when they were in the front.

The pair that gets the higher crossover recommendations is the pair that one of them has the mount that is loose. I bought B-stock and it seems something is wrong with at least that pair. I will call Emp Tek to see what they will do about it.

Last edited by checker9; 08-18-2015 at 08:26 AM.
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post #5317 of 5349 Old 08-18-2015, 08:51 AM
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I was (edit past tense was from "am", problem got solved) disappointed with EMP Tek's customer service. I bought some B-stock speakers recently from them. I bought them over the phone from Brian - they were not bought on their clearance web site. They were not hugely discounted, so before I bought them I asked Brian about returning B-stock speakers because I did not want to be locked into them since I had never heard them and the discount was not worth the risk of not being able to return them if I did not like them. I would have just bought A-stock if he said no but he acted like policy was just policy and his exact words were something like, "they (EMP Tek) will do what it takes to make a customer happy" and then added that they would not refuse a return if I were not pleased with the speakers.

I initially had a minor problem with one of the speakers (one of the clear casp on the wire mount, was loose from the metal cap inside it), and Brian agreed to send me a new cap. Very nice and good customer service. Today was different with a different person at EMP Tek.


Today, I talked with Darren about a more serious problem (see my post above - the sound in one of the pairs is materially off from the other pair - Audyssey has drastic differences in crossover for them when each pair is in the exact same location with same settings.)

Darren said I can ship the bad pair to EMP and they will check them out and fix them and if not fixable, they would send me another pair. He said it would take a week and half or longer. I told him that I recently bought a new subwoofer, and it is on the way, so I do not want to be without the speakers that long because I want to be able to test that subwoofer out immediately. He then said he would make an executive decision and that I could swap out the bad pair instead of having my pair tested and fixed, but again I would have to send them to Emp Tek and then he would look for another b-stock pair to send me back.

I then told him that since they were going to switch my bad pair out with another pair, I would be willing to just pay full price for a new A-stock pair, and when I received them, I would send back the bad B-stock pair for a credit for what I paid for the B-stock. Darren was not happy about my suggestion, citing that B-stock cannot be returned per policy and his attitude went from fairly nice to somewhat angry.

I do not know if it is a bad cop (Darren) and good cop (Brian) situation or they are singing a different customer service tune after actually buying the speakers from how it seemed during my purchase.

Last edited by checker9; 08-18-2015 at 12:21 PM.
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post #5318 of 5349 Old 08-18-2015, 09:13 AM
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You may have a legitmate beef with EMP about the speaker mount and the crossover, but you are complaining that you only "saved" 100 dollars on 225/pr speakers!? Thats 40%, which is a incredible saving...
Well, my experience with EMp/RBH has been excellent. In fact, when I thought I had any issue with one of my 5eTi, caused by MY dog knocking them over, Brian told me they would treat it like a warranty item and fix if for me. Turns out, the "issue" was a speaker wire and not the speaker, although the canine at my house did do a pretty good number on the veneer finish.
Sounds like your case is still open, so don't judge the book until you get to the final chapter...

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post #5319 of 5349 Old 08-18-2015, 10:04 AM
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Originally Posted by Elihawk View Post
You may have a legitmate beef with EMP about the speaker mount and the crossover, but you are complaining that you only "saved" 100 dollars on 225/pr speakers!? .
It was $100 total, not on a pair - two pairs and a center. So about 15%. And I am not complaining about the discount. I only brought it up to explain why I asked about returns before I even bought the speakers (since I had not heard them yet, I would have just bought A-stock if he said no instead of risking not liking them.)

Last edited by checker9; 08-18-2015 at 10:19 AM.
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post #5320 of 5349 Old 08-18-2015, 10:10 AM
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Originally Posted by Elihawk View Post
Sounds like your case is still open, so don't judge the book until you get to the final chapter...
Darren called me back, and said I could buy a new pair, and then I could return the defective b-stock pair and get a full credit for what I paid for the b-stock pair and Emp Tek would pay for shipping them back which is what I requested as a work around. He added that I was able to do it because it was considered an upgrade.

I suspect that the situation would have been different had I talked with Brian from the start. I do not know, but I get the impression that Brian is a decision maker with the Emp Tek line and Darren is not. Which if correct, makes sense as to why Darren would not commit when I first suggested buying new A-stock and later returning the B-stock, but his tone turned completely negative at that point, so I thought it was not going to go smoothly, but he was nice when he called back.

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post #5321 of 5349 Old 08-18-2015, 10:12 AM
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There you go. Problem solved .

Music area: Magnepan 3.6, McIntosh MC2205 & C48, SVS SB13-Ultra, Oppo BDP 95 and assorted equipment.
Movie area: EMP Tek R5Bi, PSA XS30, Denon X2000, Oppo BDP 83.
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post #5322 of 5349 Old 08-18-2015, 10:33 AM
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Originally Posted by dsrussell View Post
There you go. Problem solved .
I noticed you have an XS30se subwoofer run with your R5Bis. Does the bass output of such a strong subwoofer outbalance the mids and highs of the R5Bis? The reason I ask is that I noticed that SVS's Merlin (application that matches subwoofer for your speakers) seems to recommend their smaller subwoofers for low sensitivity speakers (any speakers with 86 and less sensitivity) and their larger subwoofers for higher sensitivity speakers.

Soon, I will try a PB-1000 but I might upgrade to a PB-2000 for more extension and output if the PB-1000 seems to be lacking, so I am wondering about the importance of output matching between a subwoofer and my EMP Tek speakers. Do you need to run its gain, and level-in a lot lower to get balance?
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post #5323 of 5349 Old 08-18-2015, 11:07 AM
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That was what I meant, changing the compression methods used by various services by trying out Spotify and considering Tidal FLAC. For now I decided to stay with AAPL music streaming. It s a compromise between sound quality and selection that I can live with until some other better service become available.

The better resolution of Audyssey 32 will most likely improve the room acoustic compensation on my setup, sooooo I now only look for more opinions on AVR hardware possible impact on stereo 2.1 sound quality before making the jump to a better AVR.

Quote:
Originally Posted by smcmillan2 View Post
The compression method won't change with Audyssey levels - That's all up to your source.

You need a different source for your music. Might try playing with the different Audyssey options (Flat, etc.) but what you're describing is poor quality rips. Been there with friends and family members, can't get past "Garbage in, garbage out".

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Speakers: EMP R55ti, R56ci, 2xI12
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post #5324 of 5349 Old 08-18-2015, 11:39 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by checker9 View Post
It was $100 total, not on a pair - two pairs and a center. So about 15%. And I am not complaining about the discount. I only brought it up to explain why I asked about returns before I even bought the speakers (since I had not heard them yet, I would have just bought A-stock if he said no instead of risking not liking them.)
Okay, sorry, now your comment make more sense!

Set up #1: EMP e5ti, e5Ci, and EMP e5Bi surrounds, Outlaw LFM1 Plus sub, EMP 10i10i sub
Set up #2: Def Tech SM450, CLR2002, SLS Qline surrounds and Klipsch 12wD sub
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post #5325 of 5349 Old 08-18-2015, 11:53 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by distant30 View Post
That was what I meant, changing the compression methods used by various services by trying out Spotify and considering Tidal FLAC. For now I decided to stay with AAPL music streaming. It s a compromise between sound quality and selection that I can live with until some other better service become available.

The better resolution of Audyssey 32 will most likely improve the room acoustic compensation on my setup, sooooo I now only look for more opinions on AVR hardware possible impact on stereo 2.1 sound quality before making the jump to a better AVR.
As Audyssey has no way to compensate for lower quality source input, I doubt you would notice a big improvement in the SQ provided by XT32 over XT. However, you'll never know if that's the case unless you try it, and when/if a better service comes along, you'll have the (currently) top tier Audyssey to help make the most of it. I just don't see it being an advantage to you right now.

One advantage I do see in going to XT32 - with SubEQ HT - is getting the most out of your dual sub setup.
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post #5326 of 5349 Old 08-18-2015, 12:41 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by checker9 View Post
I noticed you have an XS30se subwoofer run with your R5Bis. Does the bass output of such a strong subwoofer outbalance the mids and highs of the R5Bis? The reason I ask is that I noticed that SVS's Merlin (application that matches subwoofer for your speakers) seems to recommend their smaller subwoofers for low sensitivity speakers (any speakers with 86 and less sensitivity) and their larger subwoofers for higher sensitivity speakers.

Soon, I will try a PB-1000 but I might upgrade to a PB-2000 for more extension and output if the PB-1000 seems to be lacking, so I am wondering about the importance of output matching between a subwoofer and my EMP Tek speakers. Do you need to run its gain, and level-in a lot lower to get balance?
Subwoofer capability is more concerned with room volume and openness than speaker sensitivity, while speakers (and sensitivity) are more concerned with distance to the listening position (I’m about 8-1/2 feet away). It might seem strange to see such a large subwoofer with such small speakers, but Audyssey sets up both the subwoofer and the speakers to play properly together. I own the PSA XS30 and just recently auditioned the PSA S3000i. My room is approximately 3,400 cu. ft. and has a 6-foot opening into the kitchen and two 4-foot openings that lead to a hallway and living room. Neither the XS30 nor the S3000i overwhelmed the EMPs at all. I even use a third R5Bi as my center channel and have no problems with dialog.

But I do not listen at reference levels. Loud to me is when the speaker output reaches the high 80 dB range (A-weighting), while the subwoofer reaches a little over the 100 dB range (C-weighting). This is a nice balance, since the human ear doesn’t hear low frequencies nearly as well as the midrange and upper frequencies.

I sure wouldn’t worry about either the PB-1000 or the PB-2000 being “too much subwoofer for the EMPs”. Get the subwoofer that best fills your cubic footage and let the speaker/bass management program tie them together.

Music area: Magnepan 3.6, McIntosh MC2205 & C48, SVS SB13-Ultra, Oppo BDP 95 and assorted equipment.
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post #5327 of 5349 Old 08-18-2015, 12:51 PM
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I have to rethink my listening levels now. I thought I listened at moderate to low levels. I had been listening with Dynamic Volume Control on at master volume around -25 to -35 (why I thought I preferred moderate levels.) I turned Dynamic Volume Control off last night, and I had to turn volume to -10 to -15 to get normal sounds to same level. It was about the same level for dialog and I liked the more dynamic sounds. So I guess my taste is really more defined as moderate to high instead of moderate to low. So perhaps a bigger subwoofer would be better for me.
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post #5328 of 5349 Old 08-18-2015, 01:01 PM
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You listen at around the same volumes as I (-12 to -15), so looking for a more powerful subwoofer is always a good idea. But again, this will depend upon the cubic footage you are trying to fill.

Music area: Magnepan 3.6, McIntosh MC2205 & C48, SVS SB13-Ultra, Oppo BDP 95 and assorted equipment.
Movie area: EMP Tek R5Bi, PSA XS30, Denon X2000, Oppo BDP 83.
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post #5329 of 5349 Old 08-18-2015, 01:04 PM
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You listen at around the same volumes as I (-12 to -15), so looking for a more powerful subwoofer is always a good idea. But again, this will depend upon the cubic footage you are trying to fill.
1950 feet^3. PB-1000 will probably suit me fine but a PB-2000 would offer 3-5 more Hz likely and produce better sound I assume.
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post #5330 of 5349 Old 08-18-2015, 01:13 PM
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Anyone tried Pinpoint AM25 mounts with R5Bis?


EMP Tek recommends Omnimount but it would not suit me. It has the ball joint only ~1.5 to 2 inches from the wall. I am mounting my rears on a wall behind me and I need to point the speakers inward almost 90 degrees. Since the ball joint on the Omnimount would be so close to the wall, I do not think you could turn the speakers much more than 20-30 degrees.

The Pinpoint AM25 is a similar product except its ball joint and extender are reverse of the Omnimount. The longest point goes from the base to ball joint (about 5 inches) and then the ball joint is only 2 inches to the speaker. I will probably be able to turn the speakers more than 90 degrees if I wanted with the Pinpoint product. Plus they are rated for heavier speakers (12 lbs vs 10 lbs) and I assume the ball joints would be sturdier with a much shorter run from the ball joint to the speaker - less leverage from the speaker mass on it from the shorter run.

When I get my new replacement R5Bis, I will use it.

Last edited by checker9; 08-18-2015 at 01:18 PM.
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post #5331 of 5349 Old 08-18-2015, 01:31 PM
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Originally Posted by checker9 View Post
Anyone tried Pinpoint AM25 mounts with R5Bis?
If you search this thread you'll see a number of Emp owners are using the Pinpoint mounts. I myself am using the AM21, I wouldn't put any more weight on them than my R5Bi regardless of their stated rating.

If I were to do it over again (and I may), I would use these http://www.amazon.com/VideoSecu-Clam.../dp/B000X9O8SI
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post #5332 of 5349 Old 08-18-2015, 01:45 PM
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If I were to do it over again (and I may), I would use these http://www.amazon.com/VideoSecu-Clam.../dp/B000X9O8SI
Pinpoint sells those also. I was going to buy the Pinpoint AM40, which is the same product as that VideoSecu clamping mount.

It turns out Pinpoint is not far from my house, so I called and arranged to get two refurbished clamping mounts for same price as the VideoSecu product. The owner is a really nice guy and asked what speakers I have. He told me that he had reservations about using the AM40 with side curving speakers like the EMP Teks, and he suggested that since I was coming to get the mounts, I should bring my speakers so he could make sure they would work with the mounts.

When I put my R5Bi on the mount tray, the clamps only touched a spot (probably about 10% of the clamp touches.) He said it would not be reliable since the clamp is the only hold on the speaker, especially if I put the speakers at any tilt (and over time the mounts tray tilts over time he said - you have to adjust them periodically.)

He said that the only safe way to mount a curved speaker would be with velcro strips to hold it secure along the speaker's bottom. As I recall some Amazon reviewers of that Videosecu unit who had Andrew Jones Pioneer speakers (speakers with a similar shape to the R5Bis) noted that they had to use to velcro strips to keep those speaker in place on those clamping mounts. So something to consider if you get them.

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post #5333 of 5349 Old 08-18-2015, 07:44 PM
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No sub would be too much unless it's set up improperly. If Audyssey set up everything, it's already set correct levels for speakers and subs so even if your sub is massively powerful, you'll just have untapped potential.
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post #5334 of 5349 Old 08-19-2015, 06:46 PM
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you think is best to put a R5Bi instead of a R56Ci as center channel? i need big impact on dialogs for movies

R55Ti + sub exceeds in dialogs and midbass an R5Bi + sub?

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post #5335 of 5349 Old 08-19-2015, 08:02 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by banyar View Post
you think is best to put a R5Bi instead of a R56Ci as center channel? i need big impact on dialogs for movies

R55Ti + sub exceeds in dialogs and midbass an R5Bi + sub?
I don’t have problems with an R5Bi as a center channel. That doesn’t mean you will feel the same. With R5Bi’s as fronts, most people opt for the R5Ci, since the speaker size is the same. People with R55Ti's for the front stage will go for the R56Ci. I simply wanted identical speakers for my front stage. But if you feel you need a big center channel, go for it.

Music area: Magnepan 3.6, McIntosh MC2205 & C48, SVS SB13-Ultra, Oppo BDP 95 and assorted equipment.
Movie area: EMP Tek R5Bi, PSA XS30, Denon X2000, Oppo BDP 83.
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post #5336 of 5349 Old 08-20-2015, 02:55 PM
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thanks dsrusell

i can purchase the R55Ti + R56Ci, but my concern is not to achieve clarity and authority in the midbass. if you tell me that 3 R5Bi (LCR) outperform two R55Ti+R56Ci for movies experience then that will be the route to go for me...

use will be 100% for movies only
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post #5337 of 5349 Old 08-20-2015, 03:34 PM
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Originally Posted by banyar View Post
thanks dsrusell

i can purchase the R55Ti + R56Ci, but my concern is not to achieve clarity and authority in the midbass. if you tell me that 3 R5Bi (LCR) outperform two R55Ti+R56Ci for movies experience then that will be the route to go for me...

use will be 100% for movies only
No, no, no. I didn’t at all mean that. I obviously misunderstood what you were looking for, so I apologize if my answer confused you. The R55Ti’s are tower speakers with dual 5-1/4” drivers and three 6-1/2” drivers and cost $695/pair. They very well SHOULD outperform the $225 R5Bi’s that have only a single 5-1/4” driver. I found that in my room, and with a PSA XS30 subwoofer, the R5Bi’s performed well above my expectations, therefore I saw no need to go with the towers. If you plan on getting the towers, the R56Ci is the center to get.

My use, while mainly movies, is also for music. Matter-of-fact, I always test speakers with music first and foremost. But that’s just me.
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post #5338 of 5349 Old 08-21-2015, 06:22 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Soulburner View Post
No sub would be too much unless it's set up improperly. If Audyssey set up everything, it's already set correct levels for speakers and subs so even if your sub is massively powerful, you'll just have untapped potential.
exactly. I have 2 PSA XS30's with my EMPs and I have never thought they overpower them at all. I also listen around -10 to -15.

Panasonic 60VT60 | Denon x2000 | EMP E55Ti | E56Ci | E55Wi | PSA XS30 x2
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post #5339 of 5349 Old 08-25-2015, 11:32 AM
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No sub would be too much unless it's set up improperly.
Agreed:

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post #5340 of 5349 Old 08-25-2015, 01:06 PM
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Man, Viper, that is one awesome looking front stage! If you could figure out a way to spread those out, you SQ would be better, but that LOOKS AWESOME!

Set up #1: EMP e5ti, e5Ci, and EMP e5Bi surrounds, Outlaw LFM1 Plus sub, EMP 10i10i sub
Set up #2: Def Tech SM450, CLR2002, SLS Qline surrounds and Klipsch 12wD sub
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Emp , Emp Tek , Emp Tek E10s Subwoofer , Emp Tek Ef30c Center Speaker , Emp Tek Ef30t Tower Speakers , Emp Tek E55tir Tower Speakers , Emp Tek Ef30 Bookshelf Speakers , Speaker Systems

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