**Official EMP Owner's Thread** - Page 191 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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Old 11-12-2015, 04:41 AM
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Originally Posted by dsrussell View Post
In my two short listening sessions at the Newport audio show, I found the overall sound of the speaker very surprising and enjoyable. Its bass response was deep and solid, nothing muddy. Caught a lot of people off guard, considering the size of the speaker. It was one of the hits at the audio show, which is full of very expensive and esoteric speakers. But one can't make an accurate judgment at a show, like one can do at home. Still, I was very happy to see another quality speaker reach the market.

I found that while the R5Bi's don't have a deep bass response (during my tests it was solid down to around 57 Hz, before beginning to drop off), what's there is very well controlled. I believe I read where the B5's can hit the mid or upper 40's Hz level! Since I incorporate a subwoofer, I wasn't looking for depth, but wanted the bass to be clean. I think where the R5Bi's begin pulling ahead is in the upper midrange and high end, but the fact is, both are very good sounding speakers. I'd be happy to own either one.

I'm also happy to see that you are auditioning both speakers. I enjoy reading people's impressions of these two fine speakers. There are a lot of people looking forward to your impressions everywhere on AVS, not just the ELAC or EMP Tek threads. Getting that kind of quality sound so inexpensively isn't easy to do. Hats off to ELAC and RBH/EMP Tek. Enjoy your auditions, and no matter which you choose, I know you'll have excellent sound in your home.
The B5 is definitely enjoyable to listen to. The way the highs are rolled off makes it incredibly easy to listen to for hours. Whichever bookshelves I end up choosing, they will be pair with a sub as well. This make the decision a bit harder for me, because without a sub, I would go B5. But with a sub, the R5Bi brings in some needed top end clarity that is missing on the B5. When the R5Bi's are cranked up my wife thinks they become too harsh, but that could be the tweeter still needing to break in some. Overall, though, they are both great speakers for the money. I'm enjoying both very much.

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Old 11-12-2015, 07:07 AM
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That's interesting about the R5Bi being too harsh, not sure I have ever heard someone classify them as such. How is your room set up? Do you have a lot of hard surfaces or bare walls? I am pretty susceptible to fatiguing high end, Infinity/Klipsch/Paradigm all are too forward for me, but the EMPs are a bit more relaxed and I can listen to them for long periods of time. Perhaps you have some reflections in the room causing issues?

I think it's great that you can get such wonderful sound quality from a $230/pair of bookshelves, add in a sub and you are set.

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Old 11-12-2015, 07:38 AM
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That's interesting about the R5Bi being too harsh, not sure I have ever heard someone classify them as such. How is your room set up? Do you have a lot of hard surfaces or bare walls? I am pretty susceptible to fatiguing high end, Infinity/Klipsch/Paradigm all are too forward for me, but the EMPs are a bit more relaxed and I can listen to them for long periods of time. Perhaps you have some reflections in the room causing issues?

I think it's great that you can get such wonderful sound quality from a $230/pair of bookshelves, add in a sub and you are set.
Harsh was probably a bad word to use. They aren't fatiguing to listen to, they are more forward than the B5's. They definitely aren't a Infinity/Klipsch kind of harsh. We do have hardwood floors throughout, but we have a large rug in front of the couches in the listening area.

The R5Bi's sound great, and so do the B5's. The R5Bi's sound much wider and forward than the B5's which are more laid back. Both are great for the price! For me, the R5Bi's would require a sub, whereas the B5's could suffice without a sub.
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Old 11-12-2015, 07:55 AM
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Harsh was probably a bad word to use. They aren't fatiguing to listen to, they are more forward than the B5's. They definitely aren't a Infinity/Klipsch kind of harsh. We do have hardwood floors throughout, but we have a large rug in front of the couches in the listening area.

The R5Bi's sound great, and so do the B5's. The R5Bi's sound much wider and forward than the B5's which are more laid back. Both are great for the price! For me, the R5Bi's would require a sub, whereas the B5's could suffice without a sub.
Thanks for the clarification, this has been a comparison I have been waiting to hear, nice to see how the EMPs stack up.

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Old 11-12-2015, 08:02 AM
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Yes, my EMP teks are recessed at the high end...or, at least Audessey says they are, as it tends to bump the high end up a couple dBs. Don't find them harsh or fatiguing at all. Now, I heard some pretty expensive JBL pros with horn tweeter about a month ago...those puppies were 2000/pr, I was told, but if you were in the sweet spot, they caused fatigue real fast (stereo, music, outdoor setting)!

Set up #1: EMP e5ti, e5Ci, and EMP e5Bi surrounds, Outlaw LFM1 Plus sub, EMP 10i10i sub
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Old 11-12-2015, 08:18 AM
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Thanks for the clarification, this has been a comparison I have been waiting to hear, nice to see how the EMPs stack up.
Yea, sorry about that. I'm going to do some serious A/B testing this weekend when I have more time to listen. I'm looking forward to comparing them as well. Maybe, whichever wins will then get compared to the Wave Crest HVL-1's. We'll see...
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Old 11-12-2015, 10:25 AM
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I am really considering getting the Impression line to replace my Energy Take front right, front left, and center. I'm pretty sure I am getting the R5bi for the left and right, but I am a bit confused on what to do with the center. Through research it has come to my attention that a vertical speaker will sound better than a horizontal one. It sounded like a joke to me a first, but it seems true.

With that said, is it really true that a vertical R5bi will sound better than a horizontal R5ci (their center channel speaker) for a center channel? It seems like a dedicated center would be better, but everything that I've read states otherwise. Would this line be any different? Am I crazy???
Like dsrussell, I too use a single R5Bi as a center channel. Mine is oriented vertically, sitting on Auralex Mopads and tilted up, below my projection screen. My surrounds are also R5Bi and L/R mains are R55ti. All speakers are crossed over at 80Hz to a Rythmik F12 sub. EQ is via Audyssey XT32. In my small 13x12 room, the center channel performance is superb. The R5Bi produces a very open sound, not boxy like some centers. I have previously owned the Ascend 340SE center and in my small room the R5Bi is better, more open and neutral and better horizontal dispersion. It also bests the legendary AV123 Bigfoot which I still own (gathering dust in a closet). The Bigfoot had more weight to the sound, but not as open or neutral. The proximity of the R5Bi to the floor helps it perform with more ease in the midbass so there is no apparent weakness and the blend to the sub, and with the towers, is excellent.

If the big R56Ci center channel speaker is on sale during Black Friday I may try it out to satisfy curiosity, but as it is I am not in need of a better center.

Someone in a large room may come to different conclusions than me.

Cheers,
Ross
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Display: BenQ 1085ST 3D projector with 110" screen
Speakers/Sub: EMP Tek R55Ti mains, R56Ci center, R5Bi surrounds, SubMersive F2

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Old 11-12-2015, 10:25 AM
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One man's high end can be bliss, but to another it is harsh (or too his wife)...just varaition as to what we hear and what we like. I got a freind who has some low end Klipsch stuff and loves it, but I cannot listem for more than 10 min...
I read in another thread that RBH is going to start to use ribbon tweeters in some of their high end stuff.

Set up #1: EMP e5ti, e5Ci, and EMP e5Bi surrounds, Outlaw LFM1 Plus sub, EMP 10i10i sub
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Old 11-12-2015, 10:42 AM
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I read in another thread that RBH is going to start to use ribbon tweeters in some of their high end stuff.
Yeah I saw that too, would be interesting to see if that trickles down to the new Impression series...? If they could implement a ribbon tweeter well and keep the price under $1000/pair (towers), then I think they would have a big winner.

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Old 11-12-2015, 10:45 AM
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Originally Posted by mark.hayes0338 View Post
Yea, sorry about that. I'm going to do some serious A/B testing this weekend when I have more time to listen. I'm looking forward to comparing them as well. Maybe, whichever wins will then get compared to the Wave Crest HVL-1's. We'll see...
If you do this before Black Friday, you would be my new favorite person! I'm not kidding. At all.
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Old 11-12-2015, 10:54 AM
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If you do this before Black Friday, you would be my new favorite person! I'm not kidding. At all.
Eek...I will see what I can do. That may be pushing it.

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Old 11-12-2015, 10:58 AM
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Yeah I saw that too, would be interesting to see if that trickles down to the new Impression series...? If they could implement a ribbon tweeter well and keep the price under $1000/pair (towers), then I think they would have a big winner.
That would make me considering replacing my e5ti...however, when I tried my Phil BMRs in my theater, I was a bit underwhelmed- yes, they were better than the e5Ti, but the amazing clarity of the ribbon tweeter for music was kind of drown out by the overall dynamics of most soundtracks. Now, there were several special affects that were amazing- the sound of metal on metal clinks off to my right in Fury, which I hadn't heard on my EMP system, the sound of crows in the forground in a resident evil movie, but overall...but I think I have to try that experiment again and make sure and make it last a few weeks...after the college football season is over.

Set up #1: EMP e5ti, e5Ci, and EMP e5Bi surrounds, Outlaw LFM1 Plus sub, EMP 10i10i sub
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Set up #3: Philharmonics- BMR in a 2.0 system, music only
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Old 11-12-2015, 11:05 AM
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That would make me considering replacing my e5ti...however, when I tried my Phil BMRs in my theater, I was a bit underwhelmed- yes, they were better than the e5Ti, but the amazing clarity of the ribbon tweeter for music was kind of drown out by the overall dynamics of most soundtracks. Now, there were several special affects that were amazing- the sound of metal on metal clinks off to my right in Fury, which I hadn't heard on my EMP system, the sound of crows in the forground in a resident evil movie, but overall...but I think I have to try that experiment again and make sure and make it last a few weeks...after the college football season is over.
Yeah it would be interesting, I would likely give them a try at least. Did you keep the BMRs or were they just a demo pair?

Samsung PN60F5300 | Denon AVR-1713 | EMP E55Ti | EMP E56Ci | EMP E5Bi | Outlaw Ultra-X12
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Old 11-12-2015, 11:22 AM
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Ideally using the same speakers across the front sound stage would be best. So if you can fit a matching speaker under there vertically, that's great.

At CEDIA RBH had some speakers with the ribbon tweeter. Would love to see that eventually move down into the Impression line.
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Old 11-12-2015, 11:26 AM
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If the big R56Ci center channel speaker is on sale during Black Friday I may try it out to satisfy curiosity, but as it is I am not in need of a better center.

Cheers,
Ross
The problem with black Friday sales is that the sale is “final”. There is no 30-day trial period and no returning them just because one may not like their sound. I was cognizant of that fact when trying out the R55Ti’s. Why would I pay $695 / pair when I could have waited a month and got them for maybe a couple hundred less? Because I thought there was a better than 50-50 chance I’d return them, and I didn’t want to be stuck with a speaker I didn’t like. Now that I’ve decided to keep them, it seems like I’ve wasted money. But I didn’t know I’d keep them until my 30-day trial period was almost up. It was a last minute decision. I feel the same about the large R56Ci center channel. While I think their center channel is way over priced compared to their tower speakers, and would be a much better value when on sale, I would rather be in a position of returning them, than be stuck with them. So I doubt I'll take advantage of the upcoming sale.
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Old 11-12-2015, 11:31 AM
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Yeah it would be interesting, I would likely give them a try at least. Did you keep the BMRs or were they just a demo pair?
I bought them B stock, I am sure Dennis would have taken them back if I wanted, but I bought them to be part of the 2.0 system for most music and in that application, they are spectacular! if you listen to a lot of music, I strongly recommend a good ribbon tweeter...for HT, I think a good dome tweeter is more than good enough!

Set up #1: EMP e5ti, e5Ci, and EMP e5Bi surrounds, Outlaw LFM1 Plus sub, EMP 10i10i sub
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Set up #3: Philharmonics- BMR in a 2.0 system, music only
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Old 11-12-2015, 12:11 PM
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I bought them B stock, I am sure Dennis would have taken them back if I wanted, but I bought them to be part of the 2.0 system for most music and in that application, they are spectacular! if you listen to a lot of music, I strongly recommend a good ribbon tweeter...for HT, I think a good dome tweeter is more than good enough!
Nothing I’ve found will beat a true ribbon tweeter for music. There is an air and separation about the music that only a ribbon tweeter can deliver, or so it seems. But as you mentioned, this is far less important when watching movies. I can get by just fine with a speaker that is a bit rolled off. I can get by just fine with a speaker that is a bit on the warm side. Neither would pass my music tests, but work well with movies. The reason I decided to keep the R55Ti’s was that they had a nice sonic presence in the upper bass regions (in my room it appears to have an upper bass boost). While I may not like that boost for music, I found that on movies it was quite engaging.

Music area: Magnepan 3.6, McIntosh MC2205 & C48, SVS SB13-Ultra, Oppo BDP 95, dbx 3BX, and assorted equipment.
Movie area: EMP Tek R5Bi, RBH/EMP Tek R55Ti, PSA S3000i, Denon X2000, Oppo BDP 83.
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Old 11-12-2015, 12:11 PM
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I bought them B stock, I am sure Dennis would have taken them back if I wanted, but I bought them to be part of the 2.0 system for most music and in that application, they are spectacular! if you listen to a lot of music, I strongly recommend a good ribbon tweeter...for HT, I think a good dome tweeter is more than good enough!
I bet they make for a very good 2-channel setup! I have only briefly heard some ribbons, might need to order myself a pair of something to spend some time with.

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Old 11-12-2015, 01:36 PM
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The problem with black Friday sales is that the sale is “final”. There is no 30-day trial period and no returning them just because one may not like their sound. I was cognizant of that fact when trying out the R55Ti’s. Why would I pay $695 / pair when I could have waited a month and got them for maybe a couple hundred less? Because I thought there was a better than 50-50 chance I’d return them, and I didn’t want to be stuck with a speaker I didn’t like. Now that I’ve decided to keep them, it seems like I’ve wasted money. But I didn’t know I’d keep them until my 30-day trial period was almost up. It was a last minute decision. I feel the same about the large R56Ci center channel. While I think their center channel is way over priced compared to their tower speakers, and would be a much better value when on sale, I would rather be in a position of returning them, than be stuck with them. So I doubt I'll take advantage of the upcoming sale.
The 30-day return period was valid when I bought my R55Ti towers during last year's Holiday Sale, and also on my five R5Bi's bought during last year's Black Friday sale. I asked Brian @ RBH about this and he said, "Most of the time our normal return policy is in place. However on blowout or discontinued product we do not have a return policy. It typically has a warranty but cannot be returned for full Credit. We will usually have it posted on sale items if our 30 day return policy does not apply."
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Source: Oppo BDP-83 multi-region, Sony BDP790 3D
Display: BenQ 1085ST 3D projector with 110" screen
Speakers/Sub: EMP Tek R55Ti mains, R56Ci center, R5Bi surrounds, SubMersive F2
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Old 11-12-2015, 01:38 PM
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Dennis is making a two way with the same RAAL but no BMR, which he hope to have come in at the 1200/pr range. I got my B stock Phil-BMR for 1000/pr, but they were gently used, slightly blemished and in a Part Express cabinet that wasn't a "Salk" design.

Set up #1: EMP e5ti, e5Ci, and EMP e5Bi surrounds, Outlaw LFM1 Plus sub, EMP 10i10i sub
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Old 11-12-2015, 01:39 PM
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Fury was amazing! It has a lot of bass and it goes deep, those .50 cal machine guns really hit you in the chest now. I was watching at about -12.5 on the AVR, sub volume at 25% and I bumped up the trim level in the AVR a bit.
haven't seen Fury yet, will get on that! Watched Mad Max this weekend and it sounded freaking awesome, that sub just rocks and makes movie watching soooo much better. I had re-ran MCACC after some adjustments and that made the sound even better. Pairs so well with the EMP/RBH speakers, really impressed! I do have my sub volume at about 45% (not in apartment) and allow the AVR to mix with that.

Do you have one port plugged? Max extension? Heard that plugging one port increases extension, but already (with max extension) windows in other rooms rattle
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Old 11-12-2015, 02:17 PM
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haven't seen Fury yet, will get on that! Watched Mad Max this weekend and it sounded freaking awesome, that sub just rocks and makes movie watching soooo much better. I had re-ran MCACC after some adjustments and that made the sound even better. Pairs so well with the EMP/RBH speakers, really impressed! I do have my sub volume at about 45% (not in apartment) and allow the AVR to mix with that.

Do you have one port plugged? Max extension? Heard that plugging one port increases extension, but already (with max extension) windows in other rooms rattle
Glad you like it! I need to rewatch Mad Max with the Outlaw and see how it sounds.

I currently have it in max extension mode with one port plugged, I find that sounds the best to me and I don't need the extra output in an apartment.

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Old 11-12-2015, 02:22 PM
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The 30-day return period was valid when I bought my R55Ti towers during last year's Holiday Sale, and also on my five R5Bi's bought during last year's Black Friday sale. I asked Brian @ RBH about this and he said, "Most of the time our normal return policy is in place. However on blowout or discontinued product we do not have a return policy. It typically has a warranty but cannot be returned for full Credit. We will usually have it posted on sale items if our 30 day return policy does not apply."
Thanks for the clarification! I remember looking last year at their holiday sale and saw “all sales are final” on that page. I should have contacted Brian for specifics. Perhaps I will try out their center channel, or at least contact Brian, if the holiday sale is significant. Can’t figure out why a single center channel with one less 6-1/2” driver would cost as much as it does. I could buy a third tower for $348, so a price of $325 retail would be more realistic and not $395.

Happy to hear that you got great deals last year.
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Old 11-12-2015, 02:24 PM
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Originally Posted by Transmaniacon View Post
I bet they make for a very good 2-channel setup! I have only briefly heard some ribbons, might need to order myself a pair of something to spend some time with.
HTD Level 3s are some of the least expensive ribbons that I've heard and previously owned.

The best thing you could do to audition a ribbon in your own space is to purchase some Martin Logan Motion 15s from Amazon and just return them for a refund. I use one as a center. But I am mostly music based currently.
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Old 11-12-2015, 02:35 PM
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Yes, while I didn't think Fury was a great movie, it has a real good sound track and lots of low material to test your subwoofer. Mad Max pretty good, huh? I need something new to cleanse the palate after watching San Andreas (mediocre movie, decent soundtrack) and Jurassic Park (Bad movie, good sound track). I hadn't seen a Jurassic park movie since the original and I still haven't...they don't change the plot much, do they!

Fyi, the new Murphy Philharmonitor
http://www.philharmonicaudio.com/

Set up #1: EMP e5ti, e5Ci, and EMP e5Bi surrounds, Outlaw LFM1 Plus sub, EMP 10i10i sub
Set up #2: Def Tech SM450, CLR2002, SLS Qline surrounds and Klipsch 12wD sub
Set up #3: Philharmonics- BMR in a 2.0 system, music only

Last edited by Elihawk; 11-12-2015 at 02:39 PM.
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Old 11-12-2015, 03:04 PM
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Originally Posted by Elihawk View Post
Yes, while I didn't think Fury was a great movie, it has a real good sound track and lots of low material to test your subwoofer. Mad Max pretty good, huh? I need something new to cleanse the palate after watching San Andreas (mediocre movie, decent soundtrack) and Jurassic Park (Bad movie, good sound track). I hadn't seen a Jurassic park movie since the original and I still haven't...they don't change the plot much, do they!

Fyi, the new Murphy Philharmonitor
http://www.philharmonicaudio.com/
You have some high movie standards!

I'm just one to sit back, relax, and enjoy.

It seems Philharmonic Audio is really getting their name out. They are putting out lots of new speakers.

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Old 11-12-2015, 03:33 PM
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You have some high movie standards!

I'm just one to sit back, relax, and enjoy.

It seems Philharmonic Audio is really getting their name out. They are putting out lots of new speakers.
Movies, like speakers are highly subjective! In my minds there are rare movies that are great movies with great soundtracks- let me rephrase that, movies that I really enjoyed for the plot/acting and had a great sound track. For me, EoT, Oblivion (funny, I was never a fan of Tom Cruise in action movies, but these two have me thinking), Battle for LA, 2012, Lone Survivor (in part because elements of it were true) and about dozen other movies do both entertain and provide a great soundtrack. Hero, a late 80s Dustin Hoffman classic is a GREAT movie, but has no real soundtrack. I recently purchased the Dirty Harry Series on BR, but not much soundtrack in those, like most 70s movies.
I have a whole collect of Zombie moves that are one, great soundtracks, but not the other! Godzilla 2014, very poor movie, but man it has some really good special affects and great LFE!
But if a movie is either a great movie OR has a great soundtrack, well, I don't regre watching it. So SA and JP both had enough to make me say, okay, but not enough to make me feel good about wasting 20 dollars/per (I don't rent or download, I just buy...to many red box movies or Netflix/streaming movie are compressed and don't give you the big boy soundtrack)

Set up #1: EMP e5ti, e5Ci, and EMP e5Bi surrounds, Outlaw LFM1 Plus sub, EMP 10i10i sub
Set up #2: Def Tech SM450, CLR2002, SLS Qline surrounds and Klipsch 12wD sub
Set up #3: Philharmonics- BMR in a 2.0 system, music only
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Old 11-13-2015, 09:59 AM
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Originally Posted by Elihawk View Post
Movies, like speakers are highly subjective! In my minds there are rare movies that are great movies with great soundtracks- let me rephrase that, movies that I really enjoyed for the plot/acting and had a great sound track. For me, EoT, Oblivion (funny, I was never a fan of Tom Cruise in action movies, but these two have me thinking), Battle for LA, 2012, Lone Survivor (in part because elements of it were true) and about dozen other movies do both entertain and provide a great soundtrack. Hero, a late 80s Dustin Hoffman classic is a GREAT movie, but has no real soundtrack. I recently purchased the Dirty Harry Series on BR, but not much soundtrack in those, like most 70s movies.
I have a whole collect of Zombie moves that are one, great soundtracks, but not the other! Godzilla 2014, very poor movie, but man it has some really good special affects and great LFE!
But if a movie is either a great movie OR has a great soundtrack, well, I don't regre watching it. So SA and JP both had enough to make me say, okay, but not enough to make me feel good about wasting 20 dollars/per (I don't rent or download, I just buy...to many red box movies or Netflix/streaming movie are compressed and don't give you the big boy soundtrack)
If I find great LFE/soundtrack reviews, I will buy the blu ray. Below average soundtrack, but good movie, is a rental from RedBox. Netflix is used for TV shows and to kill time. Sometimes I don't even turn on my receiver, no movies with Netflix. I've only had a receiver/audio set-up for under 3-years, so if I come across an old favorite movie, ill pick it up on blu ray. I usually wait for it to go on sale though. Most of my collection (other than new releases) is made up of $5-$10 blu rays caught on sale. For Example: I pre-ordered Furious 7, and got the rest of the series in the above price range. I believe 5 and 6 for almost $10.

That being said, my blu ray collection is at roughly 40 with no DVDs.

EDIT: This is where I follow blu ray sales. I scroll through this every couple days: http://www.blu-ray.com/deals/?sortby...ategory=bluray
Currently, Man on Fire (blu ray) is on sale for under $4. I picked it up.
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HTD Level 3 Review
Receiver : Denon x4100
Speakers : Martin Logan Motion 40s/Motion 15 (center)/HTD Level 2 (surrounds)
Subwoofer : Dual UM-18s
Born in 1995 and still continuing my HT journey

Last edited by bgtighe23; 11-13-2015 at 10:18 AM.
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Old 11-17-2015, 11:52 AM
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Originally Posted by Elihawk View Post
Yes, while I didn't think Fury was a great movie, it has a real good sound track and lots of low material to test your subwoofer.
http://www.philharmonicaudio.com/
It's funny, because I fully disagree. The bass in Mad Max was terribly mixed! Whether it was a vehicle driving or an explosion, the entire movie just had a huge amount of mono-tone bass notes that constantly overwhelmed everything else. It was annoying, IMO.
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Old 11-17-2015, 12:11 PM
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It's funny, because I fully disagree. The bass in Mad Max was terribly mixed! Whether it was a vehicle driving or an explosion, the entire movie just had a huge amount of mono-tone bass notes that constantly overwhelmed everything else. It was annoying, IMO.
Are you talking about Fury or Mad Max? I think the Bass in Fury is fantastic, I have yet to watch Mad Max with the new Outlaw.

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