**Official EMP Owner's Thread** - Page 261 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #7801 of 7832 Old 04-28-2017, 08:09 PM
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Originally Posted by Luisfc1972 View Post
it set the distance of the sub at 0.3 ft from mlp, which is actually around 12 feet.
Holy hell, that means the receiver's probably been muffling the heck out of that sub all this time, the subs has probably been playing at a fraction of its output capability...NO WONDER you were having trouble with fullness/bass!

Seriously, just try turning off Audyssey and setting the levels and distances manually. It's not really "user error," I think this is about the worst case of Audyssey-generated disaster I've ever read about.

Most receivers have a "Pure Direct" mode that turns off all signal modifications but keeps the subwoofer in play---usually just a matter of pushing a button, and then again to revert to previous settings.

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post #7802 of 7832 Old 04-28-2017, 10:11 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Luisfc1972 View Post
now that i think about it when i got the empteks a few months ago i did the audyssey calibration again. apparently there was a hiccup. it set the distance of the sub at 0.3 ft from mlp, which is actually around 12 feet. i guess i could manually set the sub distance to 12 ft but not sure how that will affect everything.
The Audyssey setting for the sub isn't distance at all. It is time delay. Each subwoofer will have some sort of processing going on that delays the signal. Audyssey makes up for this with a filter shown as distance (for whatever reason). Normally, this delay sets the subwoofer at a greater number, not a lesser number. It's possible BIC isn't using any processing at all, however, I would run Audyssey again to check, or as Zorba pointed out, just set everything up without Audyssey. Audyssey is a good tool, but people have been integrating their subs far longer than Audyssey (or any bass management system) has been around.
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post #7803 of 7832 Old 04-29-2017, 08:07 PM
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ok all is good now

ran audyssey again. it set the sub at 13.1 feet and -5.5 db. i did up the center and sub level 1db each. set the towers to 60 and center to 80. still have more experimenting to do.

audyssey flat and deq on still sounds best to me.

once in a while treble does sound slightly harsh.

i cant imagine this sounding better upgrading my bic f12 to something like an svs or hsu. im thinking maybe i dont need to but im curious.
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post #7804 of 7832 Old 04-30-2017, 09:15 AM
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Originally Posted by Luisfc1972 View Post
audyssey flat and deq on still sounds best to me.

once in a while treble does sound slightly harsh.

i cant imagine this sounding better upgrading my bic f12 to something like an svs or hsu. im thinking maybe i dont need to but im curious.
Rather odd; everyone who's had the R55ti towers talks about how the treble is slightly rolled off, compared to the greater neutrality of the R5Bi bookshelves. This may be yet another Audyssey screw-up. Does this happen with Audyssey turned OFF?

The F12 as I understand it is great for its $200-ish pricepoint, but going up to a $500-600 sub like the Hsu, SVS, Rythmik, etc. gets you much more precise/tight bass that hits lower and faster and with a flatter frequency response. You could also try the RSL Speedwoofer 10s at $400 since (like the SVS PB1000) it comes with free return shipping in case you don't hear any significant improvement.
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post #7805 of 7832 Old 04-30-2017, 06:01 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Zorba922 View Post
Rather odd; everyone who's had the R55ti towers talks about how the treble is slightly rolled off, compared to the greater neutrality of the R5Bi bookshelves. This may be yet another Audyssey screw-up. Does this happen with Audyssey turned OFF?

The F12 as I understand it is great for its $200-ish pricepoint, but going up to a $500-600 sub like the Hsu, SVS, Rythmik, etc. gets you much more precise/tight bass that hits lower and faster and with a flatter frequency response. You could also try the RSL Speedwoofer 10s at $400 since (like the SVS PB1000) it comes with free return shipping in case you don't hear any significant improvement.
there was a harsh treble, a scene in the movie knowing, the airplane crash when the plane's wing hits the ground.
i still havent tried audyssey off yet

i think im going with the hsu vtf2 mk5 when theyre back in stock, or perhaps the speedwoofer.
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post #7806 of 7832 Old 04-30-2017, 10:42 PM
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Originally Posted by ousooner2 View Post
From what I found and converting it to make sure it's all 2m ground plane measurements...

The L22 look to be basically equivalent in SPL from 20hz+ to the likes of the PSA XV-15 and HSU VTF-15H (1 port mode). Around 3-4dB more throughout the band (15-100hz), roughly, than the Outlaw LFM-1ex and SVS PB-12NSD (roughly equivalent to the PB-2000 I believe).


...not bad! It's around 8-12dB more powerful from 40hz+ than the EMP e1010i and 12-16dB more powerful from 30hz down to 20hz. That's a HUGE increase. I might have to look into this
And it will likely sound better, too, with the DirectServo

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post #7807 of 7832 Old 04-30-2017, 10:54 PM
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Originally Posted by Transmaniacon View Post
So after some more time with these things are opening up a bit in that mid-bass region. Before they felt a little lacking but I find them getting closer to the EMPs. Still fantastic treble that really offers superior detail, but for things like acoustic guitar and some deeper voices, the EMPs set the bar high.

Fleetwood Mac - Big Love (Live) is my benchmark for acoustic guitar, and they don't offer the same experience but it's close.
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Originally Posted by Transmaniacon View Post
Chane Positives:

More defined treble, with better extension and clarity. I hear more detail and it doesn't roll off.
Great low end, the modest bookshelves can rival my E55Ti towers, they play low and it's very accurate bass. I imagine the Chane towers are quite impressive.

EMP Positives:

Superior mid-range, the bread and butter of this speaker and it makes guitar and deeper voices sound fantastic. I feel like it blends better with the low end, makes the Chanes sound a touch hollow in the middle.
Sound stage is bigger on the EMPs, I get more of a sense of depth compared to the Chane.
Imaging is better as well on the EMPs, larger sweet spot and I can pinpoint things better.

Both speakers can handle some power and maintain their clarity well when pushed. I think I would like the Chane towers or an LCR front for home theater a bit better, but EMP is my #1 still for music. My genres really take advantage of a nice warm mid-range, I think the Chane sound better with more modern music.
My evaluation led me to the same conclusions. My E5Ti and R5Bi sounded better to my ears, thanks to the great midrange. The Chane A3rx-c had the best tweeter detail I've heard - strings especially were heavenly. And the bass was much smoother and more refined on the Chanes. But the midrange just wasn't there, and I couldn't get them to not sound like little boxes. Well-built boxes, mind you.

Rock music and movies were just better on the EMPs. Guitars, vocals, and drums sound a lot more realistic on EMP. On the Chane speakers they were rather weak, even after 100 hours of break in.

Things really opened up when I upgraded to Reaction Audio CX-10s, but that's another ball game. Looking to upgrade again this year, but I'm not sure what that would be.

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Last edited by Soulburner; 04-30-2017 at 11:03 PM.
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post #7808 of 7832 Old 04-30-2017, 10:59 PM
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Originally Posted by Luisfc1972 View Post
ill try that tomorrow. but i think if i turn audyssey completely off i cant use deq. i definitely think deq makes the biggest difference in sound.

when i tried audyssey flat with deq off, sounded sort of weak and hollow. missing some of that deq bass and fuller sound it gives. this is all using bluray and direct tv.

with music i always set the avr to direct and the towers sound great. if i remember from reading the manual direct mode turns off all sound processing

im just novice to home theater, not an audiophile or wordsmith so dont take what i say too seriously. i could be way off.
Dynamic EQ adjusts the Audyssey target curve based on the volume level. This is to account for the way human hearing works. At low levels, we tend to prefer a boost to the treble and bass for everything to sound "level". As you approach "reference", the boost it gives to the treble and bass are lessened until it reaches zero.

I always use it because I believe it achieves the best sound. For movies, DEQ is known to boost the surrounds too much - use the Reference Level Offset to tame them.
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post #7809 of 7832 Old 04-30-2017, 11:03 PM
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Originally Posted by dsrussell View Post
The Audyssey setting for the sub isn't distance at all. It is time delay. Each subwoofer will have some sort of processing going on that delays the signal. Audyssey makes up for this with a filter shown as distance (for whatever reason). Normally, this delay sets the subwoofer at a greater number, not a lesser number. It's possible BIC isn't using any processing at all, however, I would run Audyssey again to check, or as Zorba pointed out, just set everything up without Audyssey. Audyssey is a good tool, but people have been integrating their subs far longer than Audyssey (or any bass management system) has been around.
Right. The sub "distance" setting in your receiver is really how it sets the phase. And you can only know objectively if your phase is correct by measuring at the MLP. You can of course subjectively listen if you don't have any measuring equipment, for a quick and dirty (but not quite accurate) way.

The distance setting will likely not match its physical distance from you. Mine certainly don't, but they measure perfect.

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post #7810 of 7832 Old 05-01-2017, 02:30 AM
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Originally Posted by Transmaniacon View Post
New amp arrived yesterday morning! The seller was incredibly prompt and packed it quite well. Honestly it was probably packaged better than the manufacturer could do. Going to get things set up and fire it up here shortly!

That bag in the back is full of packing materials ha!

Just curious how much did u buy that. Theres someone selling at my local craigslist for $195 should i consider it? Will it be good for music or movies

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post #7811 of 7832 Old 05-01-2017, 05:32 AM
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Originally Posted by MEGATURON View Post
Just curious how much did u buy that. Theres someone selling at my local craigslist for $195 should i consider it? Will it be good for music or movies

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$195 is basically throwing it away, make sure it's fully working, it may need a service as well. I paid $400 for mine and that was a really good deal...


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post #7812 of 7832 Old 05-01-2017, 05:46 AM
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Originally Posted by Soulburner View Post
My evaluation led me to the same conclusions. My E5Ti and R5Bi sounded better to my ears, thanks to the great midrange. The Chane A3rx-c had the best tweeter detail I've heard - strings especially were heavenly. And the bass was much smoother and more refined on the Chanes. But the midrange just wasn't there, and I couldn't get them to not sound like little boxes. Well-built boxes, mind you.

Rock music and movies were just better on the EMPs. Guitars, vocals, and drums sound a lot more realistic on EMP. On the Chane speakers they were rather weak, even after 100 hours of break in.

Things really opened up when I upgraded to Reaction Audio CX-10s, but that's another ball game. Looking to upgrade again this year, but I'm not sure what that would be.
You and trans have echoed my buddy Ray's thoughts, about a year ago...of course, he was comparing the Chane's to his AA CMT340s. On the Chane towers, and I think he had the smaller tower which was discontinued, he loved the high end, was suprised by the bass (but he didn't think it was better than the AAs) and felt something was missing. Sent them back, end up upgrading to the Sierra 2 with ribbons.

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post #7813 of 7832 Old 05-01-2017, 03:32 PM
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So I finally got around to hooking up the EMPs to my new Parasound amp and it is pretty impressive, at higher volumes the distortion is nonexistent and the bass seems more impactful. I can really see how my receiver runs out of steam when I push things.

Still prefer that rich mid range for certain music, compared to the Chane's, but I do miss that excellent detail and clarity.


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post #7814 of 7832 Old 05-01-2017, 05:19 PM
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I have always wished EMP/RBH would offer a "premium" Impression speaker with a ribbon tweeter. For me the Impression series has impressive woofers and midrange drivers at that price range, but a tweeter that is average for the price range.

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post #7815 of 7832 Old 05-01-2017, 06:11 PM
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Originally Posted by Elihawk View Post
I have always wished EMP/RBH would offer a "premium" Impression speaker with a ribbon tweeter. For me the Impression series has impressive woofers and midrange drivers at that price range, but a tweeter that is average for the price range.


I think they don't want to encroach on their signature series, and with the new AMT tweeters they seem like a natural upgrade. My local RBH dealer is considering getting a pair of the new AMT 6300 towers, so if he does I'll go have a listen.


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post #7816 of 7832 Old 05-02-2017, 08:17 AM
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yes, I get it and the fact they wouldn't be able to use the existing cabinet modified for a ribbon tweeter would make it an entirely new speaker. Not going to happen...and while I am intrigued the AMT 6300, it lists for just under 3,000/speaker.

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post #7817 of 7832 Old 05-02-2017, 04:32 PM
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Originally Posted by Elihawk View Post
yes, I get it and the fact they wouldn't be able to use the existing cabinet modified for a ribbon tweeter would make it an entirely new speaker. Not going to happen...and while I am intrigued the AMT 6300, it lists for just under 3,000/speaker.
Yeah it's big money for those, but the bookshelves are within reason.

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post #7818 of 7832 Old 05-09-2017, 05:52 PM
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I'm back again to poke around this thread. I am close to selling my polks this week (I never thought it'd be this difficult). I am going from RTi12 towers to the R5Bi bookshelves and the R56Ci center. I am really concerned about the perceived sound stage both in depth and width when leaving a tower for a bookshelf. Can anyone here comment on the R5Bi as main L/R? Do they sound 'large' enough?

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post #7819 of 7832 Old 05-09-2017, 06:07 PM
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I'm back again to poke around this thread. I am close to selling my polks this week (I never thought it'd be this difficult). I am going from RTi12 towers to the R5Bi bookshelves and the R56Ci center. I am really concerned about the perceived sound stage both in depth and width when leaving a tower for a bookshelf. Can anyone here comment on the R5Bi as main L/R? Do they sound 'large' enough?


Not in the opinion of the lady and I, but since it's the internet many will disagree and say pair with a good sub and you wouldn't be able to tell.


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post #7820 of 7832 Old 05-09-2017, 07:51 PM
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Originally Posted by AlphaPie View Post
I'm back again to poke around this thread. I am close to selling my polks this week (I never thought it'd be this difficult). I am going from RTi12 towers to the R5Bi bookshelves and the R56Ci center. I am really concerned about the perceived sound stage both in depth and width when leaving a tower for a bookshelf. Can anyone here comment on the R5Bi as main L/R? Do they sound 'large' enough?
I’m not sure what you mean by ‘large’ enough. Large, as in upper bass/lower midrange slam? Or large as far as soundstage size? If it is soundstage size, then they have a very large soundstage. Larger, in fact, than their tower counterparts and larger than any bookshelf speaker I have auditioned. If you mean mid bass slam, then no. There is only so much a 5-1/4” driver can give you.

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post #7821 of 7832 Old 05-11-2017, 03:41 PM
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Originally Posted by dsrussell View Post
I’m not sure what you mean by ‘large’ enough. Large, as in upper bass/lower midrange slam? Or large as far as soundstage size? If it is soundstage size, then they have a very large soundstage. Larger, in fact, than their tower counterparts and larger than any bookshelf speaker I have auditioned. If you mean mid bass slam, then no. There is only so much a 5-1/4” driver can give you.
Soundstage size. I'll cross them at 80hz, probably. I'm glad to hear your thoughts on them

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post #7822 of 7832 Old 05-12-2017, 12:02 PM
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man these towers would be perfect for music (for me) if they were a little brighter up top.
for movies i can turn deq off, use tone control and turn treble up a bit. that helps some
for music in direct mode i cant do anything.

these speakers sound awesome just the way they are though
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post #7823 of 7832 Old 05-12-2017, 01:25 PM
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man these towers would be perfect for music (for me) if they were a little brighter up top. for movies i can turn deq off, use tone control and turn treble up a bit. that helps some
for music in direct mode i cant do anything. these speakers sound awesome just the way they are though
Your ears will get used to them, and/or in a little while the tweeters will open up. I felt the same way when I first got my Wharfedales.

I listen to very midrange-dominant music, so I'd probably love these EMP towers.

~ Are you a "geek hobbyist" obsessed with squeezing out that last 5-10% improvement? The economy will thank you...especially the Chinese one. Or are you more of a get-set-and-forget "casual user" who simply wants to increase your enjoyment of movies, TV and gaming? Relax, HT isn't rocket science, nor does it have to cost an arm and a leg---especially if you ignore the aforementioned vocal minority. And remember to smile...it's just a silly hobby, after all. :)
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post #7824 of 7832 Old 05-13-2017, 11:25 AM
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Originally Posted by Elihawk View Post
I have always wished EMP/RBH would offer a "premium" Impression speaker with a ribbon tweeter. For me the Impression series has impressive woofers and midrange drivers at that price range, but a tweeter that is average for the price range.

Now-a-days, a decent woofer isn't very hard to come by - not to mention those with subs aren't demanding a lot from the woofers 3-way designs. But these speakers offered a midrange well above price point. I agree, and still hold my opinion that the tweeter used was not my favorite. Would have loved to see a better tweeter used. Even if the company released a new tweeter and we could install in ourselves. Like an upgrade kit Ascend Acoustics had for some of their speakers.
Shipping those tweeters isn't expensive at all. I probably would have 7 of their towers with a very improved tweeter.

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post #7825 of 7832 Old Yesterday, 07:28 AM
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So that guy Zeos finally got a pair for review, and they are his best sub-$500 speaker.


Samsung PN60F5300 | Denon AVR-1713 | EMP E55Ti | EMP E56Ci | EMP E5Bi | Outlaw Ultra-X12
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post #7826 of 7832 Old Yesterday, 11:24 AM
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So that guy Zeos finally got a pair for review, and they are his best sub-$500 speaker.
Thanks for the post, Trans. But wow, his reviews exhaust me. He always seems higher than a kite .

Oh, btw, I've never had port chuffing, but I don't play them at 100 dB either.

Music area: Magnepan 3.6, McIntosh MC2205 amp & C48 preamp, SVS SB13-Ultra, Oppo BDP 95, dbx 3BX, and assorted equipment.
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post #7827 of 7832 Old Yesterday, 11:25 AM
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Originally Posted by dsrussell View Post
Thanks for the post, Trans. But wow, his reviews exhaust me. He always seems higher than a kite .



Oh, btw, I've never had port chuffing, but I don't play them at 100 dB either.


Yeah I agree, but he has a big following so it will be good exposure for RBH. And yeah never heard any port chuffing on mine even when cranked with the Parasound.


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post #7828 of 7832 Old Yesterday, 11:56 AM
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Originally Posted by dsrussell View Post
Thanks for the post, Trans. But wow, his reviews exhaust me. He always seems higher than a kite .

Oh, btw, I've never had port chuffing, but I don't play them at 100 dB either.
I guess he heard port chuffing because he was listening to them in 2.0.

Sent from my noble decide. Please exucse any typos.
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post #7829 of 7832 Old Yesterday, 12:13 PM
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I guess he heard port chuffing because he was listening to them in 2.0.

Sent from my noble decide. Please exucse any typos.
Yes. Pretty much any speaker/subwoofer with a port has a potential to chuff. When auditioning these speakers at home, I ran them in 2.0 mode for two weeks and didn't hear anything amiss. Not that they aren't capable of chuffing (from his review, they are). I just never heard it. That was his only complaint on the JBL 530's. I didn't hear port chuffing on those either, but only had them for a day because a tweeter gave out.

I am happy that he no longer claims that every speaker he tests is the best speaker in the world .

Music area: Magnepan 3.6, McIntosh MC2205 amp & C48 preamp, SVS SB13-Ultra, Oppo BDP 95, dbx 3BX, and assorted equipment.
Movie area: EMP Tek E5Bi (were rebadged to R5Bi), RBH/EMP Tek R55Ti, PSA S3000i, Denon X2000, Oppo BDP 83.
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post #7830 of 7832 Old Yesterday, 12:15 PM
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Thanks for the post, Trans. But wow, his reviews exhaust me. He always seems higher than a kite .
I never listen to the whole review

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