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post #2341 of 3630 Old 11-26-2013, 04:52 PM
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Originally Posted by ousooner2 View Post

If you can get away with the height aspect of it, run a bookshelf (e5bi) as your center instead. Much more seemless front stage, better timbre match and better horizontal dispersion


Nope. Will need the center speaker. I have a tv over the fireplace set up.
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post #2342 of 3630 Old 11-26-2013, 05:01 PM
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Originally Posted by Elihawk View Post

2 out of 3...I have the smaller center and the 1010i sub and it is excellent for music and movies. I am also using the e5Ti mini towers, however...

Well...the towers are what I really want but...my budget is tight. eek.gif i could get the towers and the center and hold off on the sub......but i really want a sub biggrin.gif.... so I figured the bookshelves with stands, center & sub would be the way to go for now. Is anyone using the bookshelves as main R & L fronts? My room is not that large 14x22 with the listening position about 11 feet from the tv.
Has anyone used the EMP EMS speaker stands?
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post #2343 of 3630 Old 11-26-2013, 07:13 PM
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Originally Posted by Pain Infliction View Post


That HSU VTF-15H is a beast! So is the PSA! Please come back and post with what you went with!

Also, what is your sub budget?

Oh, I also want to mention the Rythmik FV15HP. That thing is awesome!

 

max would be $1200 to equal the PC12+ but I'd be more comfortable with around $1000 or less. 

 

I'll probably be using an old Advent AV550S for a while after I get my other stuff. A friend has had it laying in his basement for months. This is, of course, assuming there isn't some crazy black friday deal that pops that I just can't pass.

 

I've been looking at a VTF-3 MK4 since it is currently on sale for $629 and maybe add another next year if I feel I need it whenever I move. (current room is ~ 14x18x7) Why can't the VTF-15H be on sale :( lol

 

There are just too many good options that all seem to be solid performers...


Panasonic 60VT60 | Denon x2000 | EMP E55Ti | E56Ci | E55Wi | PSA XS30
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post #2344 of 3630 Old 11-27-2013, 04:15 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LoudVH View Post

Well...the towers are what I really want but...my budget is tight. eek.gif i could get the towers and the center and hold off on the sub......but i really want a sub biggrin.gif.... so I figured the bookshelves with stands, center & sub would be the way to go for now. Is anyone using the bookshelves as main R & L fronts? My room is not that large 14x22 with the listening position about 11 feet from the tv.
Has anyone used the EMP EMS speaker stands?

I'm using E5bi as main L& R matching ES1010i
They blend very well. There is no muddiness, no missing frequencies. Bass is tight.
Bass is bit overpowering for the bookshelfs. But will appeal to you if you're a basshead.
As for stand... I'm using Paradigm monitor 7 as stand! biggrin.gif because I think emp sounded better for music.
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post #2345 of 3630 Old 11-27-2013, 05:25 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LoudVH View Post

Well...the towers are what I really want but...my budget is tight. eek.gif i could get the towers and the center and hold off on the sub......but i really want a sub biggrin.gif.... so I figured the bookshelves with stands, center & sub would be the way to go for now. Is anyone using the bookshelves as main R & L fronts? My room is not that large 14x22 with the listening position about 11 feet from the tv.
Has anyone used the EMP EMS speaker stands?

What about towers and a sub, in my opinion the towers do have a noticeable benefit over the bookshelves even with a sub crossed over, and they do a great job and creating a phantom center. I currently do this and am very happy with the sound.

Denon AVR-1713 | EMP E55Ti | EMP E56Ci | EMP E5Bi | BIC F-12
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post #2346 of 3630 Old 11-27-2013, 08:37 AM
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Oh.My.God.

...I can not decide what I want to do about subs haha. Get dual e1010i's and call it a day. Save $500+ and put it towards something else. I don't watch THAT many movies or really listen every day or every other day so part of me is leaning towards this

OR

Dual lfm-1ex, dual lfm-1+, maybe even a single 'big' sub like the xv15....though I like how dual subs looks (all about symmetry lol)



AHHH frown.gif




On another note, If anyone was following or trying to help me figure out why my response in my room from the e55's, e56 AND e5b drops off LIKE A ROCK at 6kHz....I measured last night per someone on another forums request using PURE DIRECT mode on my Denon to take the AVR processing out of the equation. Still came up with the massive dip on all frequencies above 6kHz. I measured with sine waves just to see what would happen after that.....measured much more flat and didn't drop off. Pink noise is what you want to measure with though, so I'm back to square one. Guess I'll swap the SPL meter and see if that's the fix

Panny 65st60 / Denon X1000 / EMP e55ti / EMP e56ci / EMP e5bi / (2) e1010i
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post #2347 of 3630 Old 11-27-2013, 08:48 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ousooner2 View Post

Oh.My.God.

...I can not decide what I want to do about subs haha. Get dual e1010i's and call it a day. Save $500+ and put it towards something else. I don't watch THAT many movies or really listen every day or every other day so part of me is leaning towards this

OR

Dual lfm-1ex, dual lfm-1+, maybe even a single 'big' sub like the xv15....though I like how dual subs looks (all about symmetry lol)



AHHH frown.gif




On another note, If anyone was following or trying to help me figure out why my response in my room from the e55's, e56 AND e5b drops off LIKE A ROCK at 6kHz....I measured last night per someone on another forums request using PURE DIRECT mode on my Denon to take the AVR processing out of the equation. Still came up with the massive dip on all frequencies above 6kHz. I measured with sine waves just to see what would happen after that.....measured much more flat and didn't drop off. Pink noise is what you want to measure with though, so I'm back to square one. Guess I'll swap the SPL meter and see if that's the fix

I think if you want better sounding bass, the e1010i's will give you that. If you want more output then what you have now, maybe wait until you can add something in the $500 tier. I would imagine you could get at least $400 for those Klipsch, so you aren't sinking a lot of money into it and will probably end up with better sound.

Keep us updated on the new SPL meter, that could very well be the issue.

Denon AVR-1713 | EMP E55Ti | EMP E56Ci | EMP E5Bi | BIC F-12
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post #2348 of 3630 Old 11-27-2013, 08:48 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ousooner2 View Post

Oh.My.God.

...I can not decide what I want to do about subs haha. Get dual e1010i's and call it a day. Save $500+ and put it towards something else. I don't watch THAT many movies or really listen every day or every other day so part of me is leaning towards this

OR

Dual lfm-1ex, dual lfm-1+, maybe even a single 'big' sub like the xv15....though I like how dual subs looks (all about symmetry lol)



AHHH frown.gif




On another note, If anyone was following or trying to help me figure out why my response in my room from the e55's, e56 AND e5b drops off LIKE A ROCK at 6kHz....I measured last night per someone on another forums request using PURE DIRECT mode on my Denon to take the AVR processing out of the equation. Still came up with the massive dip on all frequencies above 6kHz. I measured with sine waves just to see what would happen after that.....measured much more flat and didn't drop off. Pink noise is what you want to measure with though, so I'm back to square one. Guess I'll swap the SPL meter and see if that's the fix

My vote would be for two pluses. biggrin.gif
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post #2349 of 3630 Old 11-27-2013, 09:06 AM
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Would you say that the LFM-1 EX equal to VTF-3 MK4 and the LFM-1 Plus equal to VTF-2 MK4?
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post #2350 of 3630 Old 11-27-2013, 10:06 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Transmaniacon View Post

I think if you want better sounding bass, the e1010i's will give you that. If you want more output then what you have now, maybe wait until you can add something in the $500 tier. I would imagine you could get at least $400 for those Klipsch, so you aren't sinking a lot of money into it and will probably end up with better sound.

Keep us updated on the new SPL meter, that could very well be the issue.

Yeah I'm really starting to wonder if it is the meter. I really wish I would have know about this earlier (http://www.parts-express.com/dayton-audio-imm-6-calibrated-measurement-microphone-for-iphone-ipad-tablet-and-android--390-810). Pretty cool little guy for super cheap.

I have a buyer at $500 for the pair of rw-12d's. A loss of like $30, but who cares. A pair of e1010i's at $500, single $700-800 sub or a pair of subs around $1000ish. Hmm. The hard part is deciding diminishing returns when you can't hear them.

I'd like to measure my rw-12d's again in my room b/c my response was way down from about 40hz and below. There isn't really any other places to put the sub in the living room..so if I'm in a null or something then I'm screwed either way lol

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My vote would be for two pluses. biggrin.gif

2 pluses are going to be $1,000. Do you think it's worth double the money? I mean I know that's a subjective matter, but I just can't decide. I feel like I'm leaning more towards dual e1010i's for the reasons listed above, but I'm wondering if I'll end up in the same boat as I am now...only had the rw-12d's for a few months and already looking for more (sound quality and more pressurized/sub35hz stuff)

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Originally Posted by revlimit View Post

Would you say that the LFM-1 EX equal to VTF-3 MK4 and the LFM-1 Plus equal to VTF-2 MK4?

I'm sure that's a relatively close assumption. It's hard to say as HSU tests their subs at 1m bursts, while the SPL numbers for the Outlaw you see are using 2m groundplane RMS. The price for the Outlaw subs are great right now though. If I could find someone selling a pair of used lfm-1ex's that's be great. Even the lfm-1+ would likely be great. Just can't decide if I personally think it's worth double the money right now

Panny 65st60 / Denon X1000 / EMP e55ti / EMP e56ci / EMP e5bi / (2) e1010i
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post #2351 of 3630 Old 11-27-2013, 10:12 AM
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If you are looking for stronger sub-30Hz bass, then maybe you want to hold off or go for one of the nicer subs. I think the e1010i is closer to a lateral move than an upgrade. If I were you, I would consider getting one nicer sub in the $700 range, and then down the road add a second. Something like an HSU VTF3-MK4 or PSA XV15 would get you that kind of extension you are looking for. I think the dual LFM-1EX would be a good upgrade over your current subs, that sale is very nice right now.

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post #2352 of 3630 Old 11-27-2013, 10:20 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ousooner2 View Post

Yeah I'm really starting to wonder if it is the meter. I really wish I would have know about this earlier (http://www.parts-express.com/dayton-audio-imm-6-calibrated-measurement-microphone-for-iphone-ipad-tablet-and-android--390-810). Pretty cool little guy for super cheap.

I have a buyer at $500 for the pair of rw-12d's. A loss of like $30, but who cares. A pair of e1010i's at $500, single $700-800 sub or a pair of subs around $1000ish. Hmm. The hard part is deciding diminishing returns when you can't hear them.

I'd like to measure my rw-12d's again in my room b/c my response was way down from about 40hz and below. There isn't really any other places to put the sub in the living room..so if I'm in a null or something then I'm screwed either way lol
2 pluses are going to be $1,000. Do you think it's worth double the money? I mean I know that's a subjective matter, but I just can't decide. I feel like I'm leaning more towards dual e1010i's for the reasons listed above, but I'm wondering if I'll end up in the same boat as I am now...only had the rw-12d's for a few months and already looking for more (sound quality and more pressurized/sub35hz stuff)
I'm sure that's a relatively close assumption. It's hard to say as HSU tests their subs at 1m bursts, while the SPL numbers for the Outlaw you see are using 2m groundplane RMS. The price for the Outlaw subs are great right now though. If I could find someone selling a pair of used lfm-1ex's that's be great. Even the lfm-1+ would likely be great. Just can't decide if I personally think it's worth double the money right now

That's why I say the the two pluses, yea it's $1000, but if you want any sub bass output you're not going to be happy with the e1010i's either.
Heck, purchase one of the pluses & I wait until next year & purchase another. No matter what you're going to have to fork out $$$ to get what you want.
IMO I think two pluses would be the cheapest route to take at their BF price.
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post #2353 of 3630 Old 11-27-2013, 10:23 AM
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So the LFM-1+ vs. LFM-1ex

...I never see the plus being mentioned much. Seems like the same sub, but it doesn't extend to 16hz..only 18hz. Ahaha. Only.


Maybe they'll give me a better deal if I order 2 at once smile.gif For the price of the plus though, you might be able to swing a pair of Rythmik LV12r's right? Maybe they won't discount them though. I don't know.

Panny 65st60 / Denon X1000 / EMP e55ti / EMP e56ci / EMP e5bi / (2) e1010i
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post #2354 of 3630 Old 11-27-2013, 10:36 AM
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Originally Posted by ousooner2 View Post

So the LFM-1+ vs. LFM-1ex

...I never see the plus being mentioned much. Seems like the same sub, but it doesn't extend to 16hz..only 18hz. Ahaha. Only.

Alright. That's it. I'm not going e1010i's. If I try to do it....tell me to stfu smile.gif


Maybe they'll give me a better deal if I order 2 at once smile.gif

I researched both. From what I read the major difference is the slightly lower extension & about a +3dB increase in output. What swayed me is that there is a slight mistuning in the EX, as noted in the Audioholics review http://www.audioholics.com/subwoofer-reviews/lfm-1-ex-review. However this isn't present in the Plus. So I figured the Plus would exhibit a little more tighter bass note due to smaller box & proper tuning.
Basically Outlaw took the plus, made the box bigger, put the same sub in it, & same amp on it. That was how the EX was born.
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post #2355 of 3630 Old 11-27-2013, 10:43 AM
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I would agree that going from the RW12d to the 1010i is sort of a a lateral move (I did it about 6 months ago). I have never measured, but clearly the Rw12d get louder. but it is also less faithfull, and "boomy". A freind of mine brought over a jazz DVD (not a jazz fan, but...) which was mixed in 5.1 for music, the "accuracy" of the 1010i just seemed alot better. And it has plenty of Umph for the movies I have watched in my 12 x 22 x 8 foot room. Two of those bad boys for 500 dollars and I think you would have plenty of output. I don't doubt, however that the SVS, HSU and LFM1 are as, or slightly more accurate and have greater output. But when is enough enough? How loud does the low end really need to be?

Set up #1: EMP e5ti, e5Ci, and SLS Q line Audio surrounds, EMP 10i10i sub
Set up #2: Def Tech SM450, CLR2002, SLS Qline surrounds and Klipsch 12wD sub
Set up #3: JBL130, JBL120C and Klipsch synergy sub
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post #2356 of 3630 Old 11-27-2013, 10:58 AM
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Eli...your reasoning is killing me! haha. It's so....logical

Panny 65st60 / Denon X1000 / EMP e55ti / EMP e56ci / EMP e5bi / (2) e1010i
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post #2357 of 3630 Old 11-27-2013, 11:36 AM
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Sorry, I am a scientist, so we are taught to think logical and linear!

Set up #1: EMP e5ti, e5Ci, and SLS Q line Audio surrounds, EMP 10i10i sub
Set up #2: Def Tech SM450, CLR2002, SLS Qline surrounds and Klipsch 12wD sub
Set up #3: JBL130, JBL120C and Klipsch synergy sub
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post #2358 of 3630 Old 11-27-2013, 11:43 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Transmaniacon View Post

If you are looking for stronger sub-30Hz bass, then maybe you want to hold off or go for one of the nicer subs. I think the e1010i is closer to a lateral move than an upgrade. If I were you, I would consider getting one nicer sub in the $700 range, and then down the road add a second. Something like an HSU VTF3-MK4 or PSA XV15 would get you that kind of extension you are looking for. I think the dual LFM-1EX would be a good upgrade over your current subs, that sale is very nice right now.

I agree 100%!

OUSooner take this advice and run with it. It will save you money in the long run. The HSU VTF15H is only 879 in satin black and I know that is the color you want. You will get great output and low extension with it. I also know you like symmetry, but you can always add one later on. i would hate to see you spend 1000 bux and not get what you want to hear. I had two outlaw +'s. I Upgraded them in less than a year if that tells you anything. Going from the Klipsh subs to the Emp subs is not going to be much difference overall. You would be sacrificing one thing for another when you can just get a better sub to do both.

By the way. Having two of the same sub will give you a 3db increase and co-locating them will yield 6db. You might already know that but just wanted to help you make up your mind.

MY THEATER......The Thompson Theater 11.9 channels

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post #2359 of 3630 Old 11-27-2013, 11:46 AM
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Originally Posted by Elihawk View Post

How loud does the low end really need to be?

The low end is super awesome. It is really hard to get unless you have a lot of money for amps and displacement, and for dedicated circuits. When achieved, it is quite simply amazing!

MY THEATER......The Thompson Theater 11.9 channels

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post #2360 of 3630 Old 11-27-2013, 12:30 PM
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Sorry, I am a scientist, so we are taught to think logical and linear!

Me too!...well...kinda. Depends on how you look at it lol. What do you do if you don't mind me asking?

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I agree 100%!

OUSooner take this advice and run with it. It will save you money in the long run. The HSU VTF15H is only 879 in satin black and I know that is the color you want. You will get great output and low extension with it. I also know you like symmetry, but you can always add one later on. i would hate to see you spend 1000 bux and not get what you want to hear. I had two outlaw +'s. I Upgraded them in less than a year if that tells you anything. Going from the Klipsh subs to the Emp subs is not going to be much difference overall. You would be sacrificing one thing for another when you can just get a better sub to do both.

By the way. Having two of the same sub will give you a 3db increase and co-locating them will yield 6db. You might already know that but just wanted to help you make up your mind.

The VTF-15H seems to be a great sub, but it's 28" deep, which is too deep for where I'll need to put it. The Klipsch is like 22-23" and I think 24" would be about the max. I don't understand why people don't make more subs like the e1010i or PSA xv30f! Taller subs that don't have such a large footprint. I certainly don't want a sub sticking out in the room on the floor lol

The big thing about my listening room is that it's very open. Open to the formal dining and dining/kitchen so it's a large space overall. I agree in that the e1010i would be a lateral move. I think it's a lateral move for the better as you get better sq (most likely) and better looks, whereas the con is less spl. The real decision is whether it's worth it to have $1000-$1,2000 worth of subs or $500 worth of subs and use that money for other hobbies. Still need some monitors (and possibly a little 8" sub or something) for the study (likely go with the Micca mb42x's). I'd like to do a few things on the car too! Just don't know. I hate decisions. I'm really bad at making my mind up. Why can't I just win the powerball...or find a few lfm-1ex's on the side of the road still in their boxes and perfectly okay! biggrin.gif

Panny 65st60 / Denon X1000 / EMP e55ti / EMP e56ci / EMP e5bi / (2) e1010i
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post #2361 of 3630 Old 11-27-2013, 12:39 PM
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I agree 100%!

OUSooner take this advice and run with it. It will save you money in the long run. The HSU VTF15H is only 879 in satin black and I know that is the color you want. You will get great output and low extension with it. I also know you like symmetry, but you can always add one later on. i would hate to see you spend 1000 bux and not get what you want to hear. I had two outlaw +'s. I Upgraded them in less than a year if that tells you anything. Going from the Klipsh subs to the Emp subs is not going to be much difference overall. You would be sacrificing one thing for another when you can just get a better sub to do both.

By the way. Having two of the same sub will give you a 3db increase and co-locating them will yield 6db. You might already know that but just wanted to help you make up your mind.

+1 Subs with drivers bigger than 12" are the bomb.
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post #2362 of 3630 Old 11-27-2013, 12:40 PM
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That darn sale bit me again. I ordered a pair of dipole surrounds. When they arrive my transducer collection will be 100% EMP. I should get an attaboy for that huh. smile.gif
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post #2363 of 3630 Old 11-27-2013, 01:00 PM
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Since the LFM has the port facing downward, wouldn't that cause any vibrations because it is so close to the floor? Is a subwoofer pad required due to the downward ports?
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post #2364 of 3630 Old 11-27-2013, 01:02 PM
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Originally Posted by ousooner2 View Post

Me too!...well...kinda. Depends on how you look at it lol. What do you do if you don't mind me asking?
The VTF-15H seems to be a great sub, but it's 28" deep, which is too deep for where I'll need to put it. The Klipsch is like 22-23" and I think 24" would be about the max. I don't understand why people don't make more subs like the e1010i or PSA xv30f! Taller subs that don't have such a large footprint. I certainly don't want a sub sticking out in the room on the floor lol

The big thing about my listening room is that it's very open. Open to the formal dining and dining/kitchen so it's a large space overall. I agree in that the e1010i would be a lateral move. I think it's a lateral move for the better as you get better sq (most likely) and better looks, whereas the con is less spl. The real decision is whether it's worth it to have $1000-$1,2000 worth of subs or $500 worth of subs and use that money for other hobbies. Still need some monitors (and possibly a little 8" sub or something) for the study (likely go with the Micca mb42x's). I'd like to do a few things on the car too! Just don't know. I hate decisions. I'm really bad at making my mind up. Why can't I just win the powerball...or find a few lfm-1ex's on the side of the road still in their boxes and perfectly okay! biggrin.gif

LOL....If you won the powerball, all of the decision making would be even harder. tongue.gif

Since you have such a large room and an open floor plan, your best bet would be to get a high output sub. If you can't fit the sub in by your tv, there are wireless transmitters to send the signal to the sub somewhere else if you have another place to put it.

I think you have your tv mounted on the wall if memory serves me correctly. Can you pull your tv stand out from the wall a few more inches so that the sub sill not stick out as far?? Just a thought?

MY THEATER......The Thompson Theater 11.9 channels

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post #2365 of 3630 Old 11-27-2013, 01:04 PM
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Originally Posted by FMW View Post

That darn sale bit me again. I ordered a pair of dipole surrounds. When they arrive my transducer collection will be 100% EMP. I should get an attaboy for that huh. smile.gif

I like those speakers a lot and if I didn't already have dipole surrounds, I would have scooped them up. I am spending money right now overhauling my theater in new surrounds was not in the plan. Maybe in the future hopefully.

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post #2366 of 3630 Old 11-27-2013, 01:07 PM
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Originally Posted by revlimit View Post

Since the LFM has the port facing downward, wouldn't that cause any vibrations because it is so close to the floor? Is a subwoofer pad required due to the downward ports?

No. Save your money. Those do nothing for the sub unless your sub slides across hard floors because there are not any rubber feet for the. Outlaw subs come with that.

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post #2367 of 3630 Old 11-27-2013, 02:10 PM
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Originally Posted by Pain Infliction View Post

No. Save your money. Those do nothing for the sub unless your sub slides across hard floors because there are not any rubber feet for the. Outlaw subs come with that.

Unfortunately, my sub does sits on a hardwood floor.
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post #2368 of 3630 Old 11-27-2013, 02:12 PM
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If you get an outlaw sub, you don't have to worry about it. Only vibrations you have to worry about are things around your house.

MY THEATER......The Thompson Theater 11.9 channels

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post #2369 of 3630 Old 11-29-2013, 08:26 AM
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As it is black Friday, don't forget the sale is on until tomorrow

http://emptek.com/HolidaySale.php
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post #2370 of 3630 Old 11-29-2013, 10:07 AM
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I'm thinking I'll have to do dual e1010i's for now. I had something very urgent come up and won't be able to pick up a few LFM-1ex's at the moment frown.gif

Maybe in a year or so I'll move the e1010i's out and get something else.

Panny 65st60 / Denon X1000 / EMP e55ti / EMP e56ci / EMP e5bi / (2) e1010i
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