B&W CM1...all I can say is WOW! - Page 6 - AVS Forum
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post #151 of 168 Old 01-06-2009, 06:48 PM
 
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Originally Posted by cschang View Post

Also keep in mind, if just a little difference in volume will give you a different perception of the speakers when compared to each other, as well as the different rooms.

Absolutely true.
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post #152 of 168 Old 01-06-2009, 07:04 PM
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I don't listen to music CDs, I do pretty much all movie watching and gaming. I realize I couldn't get the sound to the same level, but there were things in the Paradigms that I wasn't hearing in the other speakers. There was no low end at all in the cinema series and the monitor 7's were boomy.
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post #153 of 168 Old 01-06-2009, 08:40 PM
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Originally Posted by vili View Post

I don't listen to music CDs, I do pretty much all movie watching and gaming. I realize I couldn't get the sound to the same level, but there were things in the Paradigms that I wasn't hearing in the other speakers. There was no low end at all in the cinema series and the monitor 7's were boomy.

There are just so many variables when going from room to room at a shop....you don't even know if the receivers are setup the same unless you inspect them yourself.

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post #154 of 168 Old 01-06-2009, 10:28 PM
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Originally Posted by htman21 View Post

when you refer to double blind testing are you referring to persons that are blind in both eyes. Or, are you saying they wear two blindfolds? If the latter then the double layer of fabric over the eyes could cause erred frequencies to the tester's ears.

HAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!!

Man that was funny!
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post #155 of 168 Old 01-07-2009, 04:22 AM
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Originally Posted by vili View Post

I went and listened to the Paradigm's today at a shop. I listened to the Monitor 7's and the Cinema 330's. They had the Atom there as well, but they sold the TV that they were hooked up to so all I could hear from them was radio. I really wasn't impressed by either the Monitor 7's or the Cinema 330s. The 330's had good vocal range, but absolutely no bass and the highs weren't there either. The Monitor 7's had okay bass, but not much in the highs and I wasn't impressed with them.

As of now the B&W are the top on my list. I went ahead and just order the Ascend Acoustic Sierra 1's for my fronts and main. Hopefully I will get them within the next week or sooner. If I like them more than the B&W I will keep them and if not, I will go back and get the CM1 or CM5.

Thanks for all the info.!

Nice update on your audition process! Sometimes auditioning different speaker will reinforce your previous preferences, and sometimes you might just find a new favorite speaker! It's generally a win-win situation to audition as many speakers within your price range as you can.

You might want to look at the last few pages of this thread as well: http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=919069

Some forum members got together and did a blind "shoot-out" with some speakers including the Sierras. Pretty interesting results. Of course, the final judgment will rest on you when they arrive. In the meantime, keep us updated!
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post #156 of 168 Old 01-07-2009, 05:44 AM
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There are just so many variables when going from room to room at a shop....you don't even know if the receivers are setup the same unless you inspect them yourself.

Let alone the fact that just standing couple inches off from the same position will produce different sounds. All these things are going to cause everything to sound different period.

I could put 3 speakers in three different rooms (same brand but label them different names) and people will hear different sounds from them when playing the same soundtracks. This is one of the biggest reasons I think going out and auditioning is just silly!! Its also the reason I think "personal subjective reviews" are 99% useless The 1% being the fact that its nice to read that a speaker worked

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post #157 of 168 Old 01-07-2009, 06:24 AM
 
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Originally Posted by penngray View Post

Let alone the fact that just standing couple inches off from the same position will produce different sounds. All these things are going to cause everything to sound different period.

I could put 3 speakers in three different rooms (same brand but label them different names) and people will hear different sounds from them when playing the same soundtracks. This is one of the biggest reasons I think going out and auditioning is just silly!! Its also the reason I think "personal subjective reviews" are 99% useless The 1% being the fact that its nice to read that a speaker worked

Dang Penn, I think we're on the same page here! Couldn't agree more.
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post #158 of 168 Old 01-07-2009, 06:33 AM
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You may think auditioning is useless, but it is the only tool I have. You may be correct as far as it not being ideal setup to listen to or different rooms and receivers play a factor, but each speaker has it's own unique sound and you are able to hear a little bit of that no matter where you go.

I do not know enough about the science behind it to tell what is good based on charts and numbers. All I know is what my ears tell me and others have experienced first hand.

It's either me go to the stores and listen to the speakers and make a judgement from there or put all their names in the hat and draw a new speaker set for me. I'd much rather do the first. I've listened to the same exact scenes on all the speakers and it isn't a factor of being louder as to what I'm perceiving is better, it's actual sounds I can hear on one speaker and not on another. Some speakers just feel flat and have no life in them, while others make me feel like I'm right there experiencing the same thing.
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post #159 of 168 Old 01-07-2009, 06:37 AM
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You may think auditioning is useless, but it is the only tool I have. You may be correct as far as it not being ideal setup to listen to or different rooms and receivers play a factor, but each speaker has it's own unique sound and you are able to hear a little bit of that no matter where you go.

I do not know enough about the science behind it to tell what is good based on charts and numbers. All I know is what my ears tell me and others have experienced first hand.

It's either me go to the stores and listen to the speakers and make a judgement from there or put all their names in the hat and draw a new speaker set for me. I'd much rather do the first. I've listened to the same exact scenes on all the speakers and it isn't a factor of being louder as to what I'm perceiving is better, it's actual sounds I can hear on one speaker and not on another. Some speakers just feel flat and have no life in them, while others make me feel like I'm right there experiencing the same thing.


I won't argue that some people have to do it as long as people know the drawbacks of doing it then all is good.

You can not order speakers in house, then return them after?

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post #160 of 168 Old 01-07-2009, 06:39 AM
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Dang Penn, I think we're on the same page here! Couldn't agree more.

hehe Mark, I actually agree with lots of your opinion but the whole Harmon this, Harmon that.....is a little over the top even though you make valid points


There is room for many players and success stories in the speaker business, big or small.

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post #161 of 168 Old 01-07-2009, 06:59 AM
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I'm assuming I could order them in house, but if I don't like them in store I doubt I will like them in my house as my house has hardwood floors and probably more of a harsh environment. Also, the nearest store that had any decent speakers is 3 hours away. That means I have to spend all day just going up there, getting the speakers, and coming back. I have lots of time constraints between both work and school starting back up next week.

That's why I'm trying the Ascend Sierra speakers, so I can actually try something new in my home and see if it sounds better than my current Onkyo HTIB speakers.
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post #162 of 168 Old 01-07-2009, 07:10 AM
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I'm assuming I could order them in house, but if I don't like them in store I doubt I will like them in my house as my house has hardwood floors and probably more of a harsh environment. Also, the nearest store that had any decent speakers is 3 hours away. That means I have to spend all day just going up there, getting the speakers, and coming back. I have lots of time constraints between both work and school starting back up next week.

Yes, its tough to find good speakers locally any more.

That is why I loved to ID brands several years ago now, lots of great options we can just order and try.

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post #163 of 168 Old 01-07-2009, 07:26 AM
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Absolutely. I have found quite a few AV stores around me, but very few actually stock speakers. 90% of them want to just ask what you are going to use, order them, and install them without you ever auditioning first. I can understand where they come from because it is so expensive, but at the same time it makes our job difficult.

I have listened to Martin Logans, Definitive, B&W, Klipsch, Polk (slightly), Paradigm, and soon to be Ascend. Are there any other recommendations for me in my price range of 1k-1.5k for the front 3? So far my top choice is the B&W CM series...either the 1 or the 5. I am fine with ID companies if there are any others that make them within my budget.
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post #164 of 168 Old 01-07-2009, 08:09 AM
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Originally Posted by vili View Post

Absolutely. I have found quite a few AV stores around me, but very few actually stock speakers. 90% of them want to just ask what you are going to use, order them, and install them without you ever auditioning first. I can understand where they come from because it is so expensive, but at the same time it makes our job difficult.

I have listened to Martin Logans, Definitive, B&W, Klipsch, Polk (slightly), Paradigm, and soon to be Ascend. Are there any other recommendations for me in my price range of 1k-1.5k for the front 3? So far my top choice is the B&W CM series...either the 1 or the 5. I am fine with ID companies if there are any others that make them within my budget.

I auditioned the CM1's among many others. To my ears the Ascends killed them. It was the silky mids and tight bass that sold me. Furthermore, their stage presence is larger. I ended up getting the Sierra's for my LCR setup. I've got them hooked up to a Marantz SR6003 and they sound fantastic.
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post #165 of 168 Old 01-07-2009, 08:29 AM
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I'm glad you like them marianas. Hopefully they will be shipped today. I got them for my LCR setup as well. I still have crappy Onkyo HTIB speakers and will keep them for the surrounds (for now) as my budget was getting stretched for the front 3.

If I am amazed (refer to the J*** in my pants SNL skit, lol) then I will go ahead and get surrounds as well. I just have an Onkyo HT-R540 to drive them, but according to my information it does 125wpc so it should be good enough to drive them.
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post #166 of 168 Old 01-09-2009, 12:24 AM
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Originally Posted by cschang View Post

I really hope you are joking.....

Dude, this is getting too hardcore...
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post #167 of 168 Old 12-30-2009, 06:19 PM
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Originally Posted by MCATUCCI View Post

vili,

I can't stress this enough.....before you pluck down your hard earned cash, go out and find someone who sells Paradigm speakers. I thought the CM1 was it for me until I heard some Paradigms. For a heck of a lot less money they produce as good (and in my opinion better) sound and they beat the CM1 in creating a realistic soundfield. Another thing I forgot to mention....I auditioned the CM1's in an audio boutique in a treated room with huge dampers and a whole bunch of other sound optimizing gadgets. The Paradigms I auditioned were being sold in a small town right on main street in a small used record store. It was dusty and gloomy and trust me, there were no sound enhancing techniques being used. And despite this the Paradigms still BLEW me away.

I bought the CM5s (for my 2 channel set-up) and they are fantastic speakers which sound amazing. I demoed them side by side (using the same electronics that I have) with the Paradigm Studio 20, the CM5 was much better in every aspect. I also own Paradigm Atom monitors and mini-monitors V5 in my HT, and those speakers dont hold a candle to the B&Ws. The monitor series is much brighter and harsher.
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post #168 of 168 Old 08-22-2010, 08:17 PM
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I'm sorry to bring this thread back from the dead but I wanted to chime in with my thoughts on the CM1.

I could be described as a hardcore audio objectivist. IMO, objective data is vital in determining the performance of an audio product. I have read Floyd Toole's book, completed the level 1 HAA seminar, and have spent much time experimenting with acoustics and audio measurements in my own system. I think that expensive cables, power conditioners and other "tweaks" are mostly snake oil.

If all I had to judge the CM1 by were the NRC measurements then I would tell you that it is a POS and you should spend your money elsewhere. However, last year I had several extensive listening sessions with the CM1 and there is something special about this speaker. Perhaps it was the particular acoustics of the room I listened to it in, but I can tell you that I could listen to that speaker all day long, and I can't say that about many speakers/systems.

Given their considerable resources, I don't believe that anything with a B&W loudspeaker is an accident. I'm sure if they wanted to design a speaker with textbook on and off axis frequency response they could accomplish it. That their speakers can seem to please the ears of so many consumers and recording professionals while violating established conventions of speaker performance makes me curious to know more about their design process.
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