What type of speaker for surround? Couch against rear wall. - Page 2 - AVS Forum
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post #31 of 43 Old 02-13-2009, 12:17 PM
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Originally Posted by jostenmeat View Post

It's an old concept to mount them above ear level. Ear level is best.

Terrible advice.

Actually what you're trying for is on-axis placement, with conventional speakers.

Ear level is misleading and a misnomer, really. The only reason people suggest ear level for front speakers is because they are normally direct firing, and the drivers will be on-axis for your ears if the tweeters are at ear level. (High frequency sounds suffer most when you get off axis.)

You can mount surrounds at ANY level and still be on-axis if you aim them. Aim them in a way that's consistent with the speaker design.

Further, given the type of stuff playing through surrounds, plus the use of high-dispersion designs for surrounds - there's quite a lot of flexibility.

IMO there are two reasons to mount surrounds above ear level ...

- It's the only way you have a chance of more or less equal volume from each ... when they are to the sides one will be much closer than the other for almost everyone, and be distractingly louder. Mounted above you the distances are less different. It's a geometry thing.

- If there's someone sitting next to you they will block the sound from that side. If the speakers are above, you can all hear.

Unless there's only 1 person listening and you can sit exactly in the middle. Which, by the way, is what you have in a production studio, which is what the link in that other thread is about ... not at all relevant to home theater.

Put them above ear level, well above ear level if need be, and aim them at the seating.
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post #32 of 43 Old 02-13-2009, 01:22 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by buzzy_ View Post

Terrible advice.

Are you sure?

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Actually what you're trying for is on-axis placement, with conventional speakers.

Well, duh. You wouldn't imply in-ceiling speakers to potentially be as good as a pair of "ear height bookshelves" simply because you are directly underneath them, on axis?

Quote:
Ear level is misleading and a misnomer, really. The only reason people suggest ear level for front speakers is because they are normally direct firing, and the drivers will be on-axis for your ears if the tweeters are at ear level. (High frequency sounds suffer most when you get off axis.)

Often when one uses the "misnomer" of ear level, the tweeter is what is often implied. I would hope anyways that nobody mistakes that to be for the bass driver in a three way tower.

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You can mount surrounds at ANY level and still be on-axis if you aim them. Aim them in a way that's consistent with the speaker design.

Of course. Duh. You can do the same with in-ceilings too.

Quote:
Further, given the type of stuff playing through surrounds, plus the use of high-dispersion designs for surrounds - there's quite a lot of flexibility.

IMO there are two reasons to mount surrounds above ear level ...

- It's the only way you have a chance of more or less equal volume from each ... when they are to the sides one will be much closer than the other for almost everyone, and be distractingly louder. Mounted above you the distances are less different. It's a geometry thing.

This could be true. But, just because something or other is not always easy to implement does not all of a sudden make a statement untrue, does it? In any case I wasn't here to argue the merits of easy implementation. After all, a lot of seat backs are too tall. Do you miss the part where I said, "I guess in such a case where the surround is above ear level, one could hopefully angle them"?

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- If there's someone sitting next to you they will block the sound from that side. If the speakers are above, you can all hear.

Yes, this would be the case if your side surrounds were at a 90 degree angle, or at least very close to that. Even at 110 degrees, with say 5ft distance to speaker, the heads shouldn't be blocking, if they are sitting somewhat close together. Sure, maybe some reflections/diffractions off the noggin, but whatev's. No issue for rear speakers, or LCR.

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Unless there's only 1 person listening and you can sit exactly in the middle. Which, by the way, is what you have in a production studio, which is what the link in that other thread is about ... not at all relevant to home theater.

Put them above ear level, well above ear level if need be, and aim them at the seating.

I agree that it's best to aim them, and I never once said otherwise.

 

 

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post #33 of 43 Old 02-13-2009, 03:29 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jim McC View Post

Thanks everyone. The majority opinion seems to be bipoles or dipoles for me, instead of normal bookshelfs.

Well.....

My couch is right against my back wall and I use bookshelves (sort of, KEF 2001.2 eggs) and they do a good job.

Because of left rear being basically under the stairs the directionality of the bookshelves is great.

Also, I plan to get the Oppo BDP-83 which can play SACD; and unless I'm way off, bookshelves are better for 5 channel music.

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post #34 of 43 Old 02-18-2009, 02:18 PM
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My set up is close to the same jim. I have the Mirage Nanosat system with the rears mounted close to the ceiling on the side walls. I find this to be a fantastic setup as the speakers radiate sound in almost a 360 degree radius. I find that even the love seat on the side wall gets a pretty good effect. It seems that the speakers are also so well integrated with eachother that there is really no gap in sound or anyplace where the sound is really all that more impressive than another. I followed very basic design setups for a system found on the internet that was repeated almost every where as well as on the manufactures literature. Simple set up and placement makes for a very simple stress free listening and watching ENJOYMENT!!! Hope you ENJOY waht you finally decide on and try not to stress too much about this!!

"Sometimes you get shown the light in the strangest of places if you look at it right"
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post #35 of 43 Old 02-18-2009, 02:42 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jostenmeat View Post

I wonder if those recommendations are the "norm" because most seat backs do block firing surrounds. THIS would be a good reason to raise the height. But if this is not the case, then I don't think so.

Also, some speakers will behave very differently, I mean to one's ears, depending on the height. I've read of speaker reviews that describe some models that demand ear height placement more than others. I guess in such a case where the surround is above ear level, one could hopefully angle them.

In agreement with the seat backs. Another reason to purchase the "less comfortable" low back seat for listening.

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post #36 of 43 Old 02-18-2009, 02:52 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Espo77 View Post

In agreement with the seat backs. Another reason to purchase the "less comfortable" low back seat for listening.

Good point. very good, IMO, because it's something that can be easily overlooked. I don't care so much for the HT, but for my stereo seating, it's pretty easy to tell that the higher back is an issue. In fact, I'd like to take it further and say I wish they had cup holders! lol, the HT seating spoils me. However, I'm not sure if that is "too much" for a LR.

 

 

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post #37 of 43 Old 02-18-2009, 03:46 PM - Thread Starter
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I ordered the Energy C-R100 bipoles for the surrounds. I should have them in a few more days.
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post #38 of 43 Old 02-18-2009, 03:59 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jim McC View Post

I ordered the Energy C-R100 bipoles for the surrounds. I should have them in a few more days.

Batteries ready for the camera?

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post #39 of 43 Old 02-18-2009, 05:57 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by espo77 View Post

batteries ready for the camera?

____________________________________________________________ _____

?????
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post #40 of 43 Old 02-18-2009, 07:54 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by oldtexasdog View Post

I also have the sofa against rear wall and no other options at present I played with several set ups (floor stands matching fronts,ect) and after a year settled on a low-teck approach that as far as movie or TV surround (as this is the only time I use the surround for the most part) seems to work very well, example , the other night watching 24 I almost jumped out of my seat when the police cars came from behind, and got up to check my cell phone when one rang in an off screen behind you room on the TV. Ready-- I just put up 2 of Polks finest 2 way outdoor speakers on the wall angled at about 20% down and turned in with the Tweeters on the bottom. Hey like I said "Low teck" but it woirks This was helped I'm sure by my running the Audyssey MultEQ XT program with test data collected from 8 listening points.
P.S. This has a good WAF also as you can get them in color matches for your wall or even paint them to match.


I'm in the same boat. My recliners are almost to the back wall. A pair of Mirage Omnican 6 for the rear surrounds and using Audyssey, surely made up for the imperfect placement.
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post #41 of 43 Old 06-29-2009, 11:05 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by craig john View Post

In a 5.1 system, the surround speakers should be at the listeners *sides*, not behind them:
http://www.dolby.com/consumer/home_e...omlayout2.html
This is particularly true if the speakers are dipoles, as this is where dipoles are designed to be placed. If you absolutely must place them on the rear wall, use bipoles aimed straight ahead, or monopoles aimed at the listening position.

Craig


Craig...or anyone else, what did you mean by: "use bipoles aimed straight ahead". My question was specifically referring to what is meant by "aiming them straight ahead". After reading a lot of advice, I am a 100% convinced that I will use bipoles on the rear wall...2'-3' above ear level for my surround speakers.

The confusion for me is deciding between the 2 main types of Bipoles I see on the market. There the more tradional bi-pole with the speaker arrange along a "V", or the design where the driver pointed directly forward and there are tweeters on either side. EXAMPLE

I was wondering if I was reading too much into that statement of "aiming them straight ahead" into finding the value in the latter design of those 3 sided Bipoles.
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post #42 of 43 Old 10-02-2013, 09:26 AM
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so what option did you finally choose....?

Thanks,

Rana

a few funny stories from my life ------->http://www.kirtirana.blogspot.com
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post #43 of 43 Old 10-02-2013, 10:27 AM
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so what option did you finally choose....?

Yeah we're dying to know what you went with over 3 years ago.
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