7.1 Speaker Placement in Strange Apartment layout? (floorplan included) - AVS Forum
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post #1 of 34 Old 03-16-2009, 01:57 PM - Thread Starter
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I'm looking for a place to put my 7.1 rear speakers. Unlike many, I have plenty of space behind the couch, but kind of a strange wall arrangement back there.

In the diagram, my TV and front speakers are on the right, and my side surround speakers are on the dryer and dining room table, just slightly behind the couch. The rear surround position I've proposed is on top of the fridge and in the bathroom (yes, I know). I've drawn lines from the rears to where I'll be sitting to show it is a straight line of sight and I've calculated it to be approximately 150 degrees as recommended, although the distance seems longer than in any of the diagrams. The length from TV to fridge is about 30 feet, and the distance from one rear speaker to the other is about 10 feet. The couch is about at the midway point between the TV and the "back wall." I should also mention that my receiver has autocalibration.

This rear placement seems to mostly fit the characteristics of all the 7.1 diagrams I've seen online, but since that space isn't a wide open space, should I do something differently?

Thanks in advance!



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post #2 of 34 Old 03-16-2009, 02:00 PM
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Stick to 5.1.

Good imagination on placement but I personally wouldn't go for it.


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post #3 of 34 Old 03-16-2009, 02:09 PM
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this man is obviously not married

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post #4 of 34 Old 03-16-2009, 02:16 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by batpig View Post

this man is obviously not married

LOL I was insanely surprised with the over the fridge and speaker in bathroom thing!


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post #5 of 34 Old 03-16-2009, 02:29 PM
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I'm not even talking about the 6th and 7th speakers, how did he get to 5.1 -- speakers on the dryer and the dining room table?! no married man would even think of asking his wife if that was acceptable

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post #6 of 34 Old 03-16-2009, 07:57 PM
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Using brackets, ceiling mount the rear surround speakers, angling them toward the listener.
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post #7 of 34 Old 03-17-2009, 01:25 AM
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Where's the sub going to go, inside the washer?
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post #8 of 34 Old 03-17-2009, 02:49 AM
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6.1
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post #9 of 34 Old 03-17-2009, 04:01 AM
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I have to agree with the others, but I will give you reasons why. You are absolutely correct, you do have a clear line of sight from your couch to the speakers. However, you are going to be listening to them, not looking at them. If you had a totally open floor plan, without the wall separating the bathroom & the kitchen, you would have a valid assessment. But the locations you've shown will cause some really distracting sound issues. Both speakers will sound like they're in an echo chamber. And the sound from the bathroom speaker will really be distorted because most of the sound will be bouncing around that room.

You get an A for imagination, but you will be happier with the sound quality from 5.1. IMHO.
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post #10 of 34 Old 03-17-2009, 04:06 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DogEarz View Post

You get an A for imagination, but you will be happier with the sound quality from 5.1. IMHO.

I give him an A+! Kudos for being creatively imaginative.

You can possibly do a 6.1 by hanging/wall-mounting a speaker at the area separating the kitchen and the bathroom.


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post #11 of 34 Old 03-17-2009, 04:23 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DogEarz View Post

Both speakers will sound like they're in an echo chamber. And the sound from the bathroom speaker will really be distorted because most of the sound will be bouncing around that room.

I think he's got a devised a brilliant plan. This way, he saves money from not having to buy dipoles!
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post #12 of 34 Old 03-17-2009, 04:24 AM
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I agree 6.1...When I had the chance to demo a 7.1 vs 6.1...really was impressed with s 6.1..I thought I wouldn't like it at all. I would still prefer 7.1, but the guy has limitations.
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post #13 of 34 Old 03-18-2009, 06:32 AM - Thread Starter
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Thank you all for your replies, which ranged from informative to amusing.
I'm glad we all got a kick out of my ghetto-fabulous experiments in semi-lo-fi.
I think I am going to try to mount the speakers as suggested. I've been hesitant to make holes in my apartment walls, but there is always wood putty.

My Yamaha RX-V565 comes today and I'm very excited.

I will try to post pictures of my setup once it is all in place.

Thanks again everyone.


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post #14 of 34 Old 03-18-2009, 09:18 AM
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dude, DEFINITELY post pictures

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post #15 of 34 Old 03-18-2009, 10:13 AM
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I admire your dediction and imagination and am patiently awaiting pictures


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post #16 of 34 Old 03-18-2009, 10:42 AM
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How will you hide the speaker wires?

I would probably have to suggest speaker stands since we know that it's an apartment. That way, you can have a stand on either side and the two just in back of the couch. Then run all the wires under the couch and down the base board to your receiver.

I wouldn't go poking holes in apartment walls to run the wire. Hanging the brackets is one thing.

Good Luck.
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post #17 of 34 Old 03-18-2009, 10:50 AM - Thread Starter
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Hide the speaker wires? Didn't you hear I'm not married? j/k

I was thinking something like you suggested, but I've read surrounds should be mounted above sitting ear level and most stands I've seen aren't nearly tall enough. I was considering perhaps building something myself...


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post #18 of 34 Old 03-18-2009, 10:53 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bluesfan View Post

How will you hide the speaker wires?

ummmm...... the guy has one speaker on the dryer and the other on the dining room table, and was considering putting another one on top of the fridge and the other one in the BATHROOM. I'm going to go out on a limb here and say that he's not too concerned with a clean, professional install...

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post #19 of 34 Old 03-18-2009, 11:15 AM
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Posh-

Back in our bachelor days... My good friend and I had a really large freestanding bookshelf behind the couch with a projector on it in our apartment. Then we hung the surrounds on brackets off of the sides of the shelf. Something like that might work for the rear surrounds in your case if you don't mind the ubstructed view from the kitchen.

Ahhhh... the good old days! My wife would never go for that now.
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post #20 of 34 Old 03-18-2009, 11:24 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PoshFrosh View Post

... but since that space isn't a wide open space, should I do something differently?

I agree that it would not be good to have a speaker in the bathroom, and probably not the kitchen, either. But I wouldn't let that keep me from 7.1 sound. Perhaps you could put the back surrounds a few feet behind where you show the side surrounds, and move the side surrounds a few feet forward of where you show them. If the wall space to the left of the TV is uncommitted, it might be interesting to move the TV and L-C-R over that way a little and angle the couch toward them. Put the speakers on crates or something, move them around, recalibrate, and listen, before you start making holes in the walls. It will be fun finding a good setup.

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post #21 of 34 Old 03-18-2009, 11:29 AM
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If you have the room you could do tripod speaker stands. Put em where you want and as high as you want (most likely).
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post #22 of 34 Old 03-18-2009, 12:07 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by batpig View Post

dude, DEFINITELY post pictures

Quote:
Originally Posted by Exterous View Post

I admire your dediction and imagination and am patiently awaiting pictures

+1, me too!


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post #23 of 34 Old 03-18-2009, 12:22 PM
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throw out the couch.. get 1 single recliner. place the recliner 1.5 screen widths from the screen..run the wires for the rears along the floor..secure with duct tape.. with the money you save from not having to buy an engagement ring purchace a 60" Kuro.
and here's a single mans hint.. don't tell your girl friend you have a harmony remote..this way the only TV she's able to operate is in the BEDROOM .(yeah baby)
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post #24 of 34 Old 03-18-2009, 01:49 PM - Thread Starter
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bluesfan: great idea, but i do want an unobstructed view from the kitchen; (also i too used to have a projector up on a bookstand before I got my new tv)

1brokebrother: I already have a 61" TV, in fact, let me list all my equipment so you guys have something more to laugh about:

First, as I mentioned, I have the new Yamaha RX-V565 delivered to my apartment now, just waiting to get out of work so I can go play with it

For my TV, I have a Samsung H61A750 61" LED DLP RPTV that I LOVE

For my front speakers I have a Bose Acoustimass 3 Series III that I bought about 15 years ago as a discounted floor model (I know, I know, you guys hate Bose, but I bought these forever ago, so give me a break )


For my center channel I have a cheap JVC center speaker I bought on Amazon a couple years ago (again, I know...)

For my Side Surrounds, I am currently using a Bose 4.2 Series II Direct Reflecting Speakers (if I am not mistaken, these are Dipolar, correct? They have one large speaker cone facing forward, and two smaller tweeters facing at 90 degrees away from each other)


For the rear surrounds, I have not purchased new speakers yet (as I've never had a 7.1 receiver before today) and was planning on using some AIWA boombox speakers I found in the trash (150W, 8ohms) until I get everything figured out and can purchase some new speakers.

Also have an HD DVR, a PS3, a xBox 360, a Wii, a PS2, a DVD player, and a DVD recorder

So there you have it. I hope this puts things in clear view for everyone. I don't want the best. And it doesn't have to look good (there can be wires everywhere and speakers hanging from wear places, whatev). I just want the poor man's ghetto-fabulous 7.1 setup with room for upgrading everything in the future.

Also, before anyone asks, I do have a girlfriend and she comes over every other night, and so far, she's been really really cool about this whole project.

And now that everything's out in the open, I'd like to ask a few questions and get some opinions on some of this:

1) Regarding my front speakers: I know that I have my seating area pretty far back from the screen, but that's how I like it. Should I move the front speakers closer to the seating area in order to achieve the equilateral triangle that's recommended?

2) Regarding the side speakers, yes I have those crappy Bose Direct-Reflecting things that I foolishly bought years ago. My question is, that with standard dipole speakers used as side surrounds, it is recommended that you point the speakers so that the dead-zone or null-zone envelops the user (that is to say, if you drew a "V" going out from the two drivers at 90 degree angles to each other, then the "V" would go around the user so no sound would be reaching the user directly). With these speakers I'm not sure how to do that since they have a large driver facing straight ahead and two tweeters facing at 45 degrees to the large driver and 90 degrees to each other (sorry it's hard to describe). If I point the tweeters correctly the large driver would have to face either the front corner of the room or the rear corner. These particular speakers were designed to be stereo fronts, so that's probably the source of the confusion, but any ideas on what I should do? (besides ditching them and getting good speakers, which I will do at some point, but for now I'm attempting to use what I've got).

I realize the answers to many of these kinds of questions is "use your own ears to determine what sounds best to you", but I just wanted a reasonably intelligent starting point to begin with, from your extensive knowledge on this subject.


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post #25 of 34 Old 03-18-2009, 01:55 PM
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7.1 is a waste unless you have a very good size "dedicated" theater room.................carry on
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post #26 of 34 Old 03-18-2009, 02:15 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PoshFrosh View Post

For my front speakers I have a Bose Acoustimass 3 Series III

For my center channel I have a cheap JVC center speaker I bought on Amazon a couple years ago (again, I know...)

For my Side Surrounds, I am currently using a Bose 4.2 Series II Direct Reflecting Speakers

For the rear surrounds, I have not purchased new speakers yet (as I've never had a 7.1 receiver before today) and was planning on using some AIWA boombox speakers I found in the trash (150W, 8ohms)

I think YPAO is going to have a heart-attack trying to calibrate that 7.1 setup!

Question: why not move the tiny Bose cubes to the rear for 6/7th channels?? They are much less obtrusive and very wall-mountable, you could even mount them both on the little wall behind the couch (the one separating the kitchen from the main room). Space them 2-3ft apart (as much as you can) on that little wall and that will be a much better 7.1 setup.

The all-bose-surrounds would work pretty well, as they are designed for a dispersed, diffuse sound anyway. (not sure if they are bipolar or dipolar though).

Then grab a cheap new pair of decent bookshelf speakers for fronts, the system will sound MUCH MUCH better. Fry's has cheap Polk bookshelves all the time for under $100, or you could get something nicer like a pair of Energy C-100 ($118 shipped from Vann's). Or search craiglist for a decent $50 pair of speakers (you are in the college triangle, I'm sure there are plenty of bargains floating around).

That would be a much bigger upgrade than throwing some dumpster Aiwa speakers in your bathroom to get 7.1

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post #27 of 34 Old 03-18-2009, 03:59 PM - Thread Starter
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Thanks batpig, great advice! I'll do that, and have a room layout I think will work.

Until I buy some decent fronts, I will use what I have in 5.1

Then I will switch to 7.1, and the embarrassing Bose speakers will all be behind me until I can afford to replace them too perhaps some day.

Thanks again to everyone who has helped thus far.
I'll continue to post pictures and updates as the project progresses.
This is a new hobby to me (I used to revel in building computers, but lost the heart for it) and I'm just working with what equipment I have for now and look forward to twiddling with it and changing it all the time in the future.



Still can't figure out which way to point these side speakers (link to pdf manual), should I point the giant cone towards me, or should I make it so none of them are pointing directly at me?:



P.S. My apartment office was closed when I got home and I could not retrieve the package, so no receiver till tomorrow...


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post #28 of 34 Old 04-07-2009, 01:40 PM - Thread Starter
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I finally have some pictures of the speaker setup.
I'm still using the dumpster speakers for now, but will upgrade them soon.
I have all four rear speakers directly behind the futon (all equidistant from the listening position at 3 feet) and the fronts up by the TV (15 feet).
Pictures are posted below.
My major unanswered question on placement has to do with distance. I understand that placement depends on degrees of angles and that YPAO can to an extent overcome distance differences, but should I move the front speakers closer to the listening position (6 feet) while leaving the tv where it is (15 feet), or would that be way stupid? On the one hand, having the speakers as equidistant as possible (e.g. all 3 feet away from listener) seems like a good idea, but on the other hand, having the fronts so much closer than the TV screen seems odd.
I have made a diagram (below) with a protractor that displays the angles (30, 110, and 150 respectively) and drew lines out from the listening position. Then I made dots on the lines equidistant (1 inch, 2 inches...) and I was thinking of changing the speaker position to the one noted on the diagram (the main difference being the fronts are now right by the TV which is the rectangle to the far left). Any thoughts?
(Sorry to let everyone down, I know you all wanted to see pictures of speakers in the bathroom and other crazy places...)
Thanks. And, BTW, I love my Yamaha 565!





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post #29 of 34 Old 04-07-2009, 02:15 PM
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can you scoot the couch forward a few feet? or will that mess with the feng shui of the room?

we all have compromises in our setups and rarely can you get an "ideal" layout. If you feel like it you can mount the little bose cube fronts on the wall to either side to spread them out a bit.... but think I wouldn't worry about it for now; when you get the new fronts speakers they can sit to either side of the TV stand, naturally spreading them out a bit for better stereo separation on the fronts.

BTW, speaking of feng shui -- do you not have the grills for those Bose surrounds? or do you just like the look of the naked drivers?

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post #30 of 34 Old 04-07-2009, 02:37 PM
 
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Dude, having 7.1 effects coming from random places in the house would be awesomely freaky for a lot of movies.

Random screams from the bathroom.

Nice.
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