*Official Diva by Swans Support Thread * - Page 4 - AVS Forum
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post #91 of 3039 Old 02-03-2002, 01:50 PM
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Actually, maybe I should re-state this one....

Mark Schifter -

Is there a way to order a complete set of speakers (not just pairs, but with centers and surrounds) where the veneers all come out of the same sequential flitch? And/Or can they be ordered without any veneer?

For those that don't know, Flitch = log through a cheese slicer (so to speak), kept in sequential order.

Steve- thanks, the trail continues on my earlier post, go follow it:D .

Regards, Bruce
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post #92 of 3039 Old 02-03-2002, 02:03 PM
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When I received my speakers I would crank them whenever I left the house, fortunately my wife and I would be gone at about the same time.

I'm sure there were times when someone came to the door and was sure someone was home due to the fact of the loud music emanating from within.

Just a suggestion:cool:

Harley
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post #93 of 3039 Old 02-03-2002, 03:04 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by codemarine


I'll bet they receive hundreds of emails a day. What do you wanna know, Matt? I'll bet unless you're asking a pricing question there's a Diva owner on here who can help you.

Mark, you might consider putting an FAQ on the web site that covers issues like the impedance, how the tracking number works, what costs people are responsible for if they return the speakers, the China question, are they the same as the "other" Swans being sold, etc.

--Steve
Thanks for these comments Steve...

Actually, I guess I should say that Steve is gone in Western Canada on "special assignment"... Suzanne has been out ill for most of last week, Russell was out for two days last week on another special assignment in the Boston area... and I was gone for most of the week. OUCH...

Things will be better this week after Tuesday... we'll be a full strength (sounds like a hockey to me)...

The FAQ section is a wonderful idea... and maybe I'll let the cat out of the bag a bit to let you all know that we are about to debut an ENTIRELY new web site... Nice... :)

The e-mail traffic is WAY past the 200 mark daily... and we try... but we are not up to full speed here... We will get better at this though as we are putting a plan in place to divide up some of these duties.

As well, we are just getting ready to move into our new warehouse in Lafayette, CO. and that will take some of the fulfillment troubles out of the equation... we have just hired THE BEST traffic and shipping manager... Josh will help us a lot...

Stay with us gang... we promise to get better...

All the best... and thanks...

mls

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post #94 of 3039 Old 02-03-2002, 03:09 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by TinHere
Mark,

I am considering getting a C3 to replace the 2.1 I have been using which was purchased before the C3 was available. I have thoroughly enjoyed my 5.1's with the 2.1 center but all the recent discussions have me wondering if I am missing out. Would you recommend this change?

I also have newly developed questions about the conditions under which these speakers are manufactured. This concern is keeping me up nights questoning if I should keep the Diva's in my home. I just keep picturing the poor worker's work worn faces, and imagined squalid working conditions. You know, not unlike the Diva experience some things have to be seen and heard to be believed. Any small output that you can think of to assuage these new feelings about "the works" would go a long way to change the proverbial slanted POV that is being pretended.

Of course you can disregard the above for the folly it is except for the part about thoroughly enjoying the Diva's. Also seeing the success that you have created with your more than able associates gives me a personal sense of pride in being one of the first to recognize something special was evolving. I didn't have the experience when I first took the plunge to fully trust myself about the quality I felt about the speakers, but there was no question about the committed helpfulness demonstrated by Steve and Russell in answering all my questions. I continue to enjoy all the positive comments that are constantly posted about you, your company, and your products, and know that any customer in the market is hard pressed to do better than AV123.

Now Mark, what dialect would be useful? ;)

I don't post here very often, but I know where to send people who have Diva interest and want meaningful feedback. :)
Nice to see old friends...

I really think the C3 will help out a bunch... I'm sure we can work something out for you that will make in painless... ;)

Thanks for ALL of the other comments... (blush)...

Mandarin will do... or I can take you with me to Eastern Siberia and there my friend... ONLY Russian... (But don't worry... you'd be with me)... :D

Wishing you all the best... and welcome home...

Mark

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post #95 of 3039 Old 02-03-2002, 03:21 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by BizarroTerl
Mark,
Please post the name of the wood species once it returns to you. I have some cabinetry to build in the future and I'd like to get as close as possible.
O.K.

I e-mailed my in-factory helper (Lucy) and my assistant in China (A Lan) to ask again...

I seem to remember two species that for sure I will spell wrong...

Santos

Seshua

I will continue to work on this question...

I really do need to explain that wood varies and we try so hard to keep everything "just so" when we send HT sets to folks... This is no easy task...

As wood is the miraculous work of nature... it's hard to make everything look the same, except if I decided to go with that "computer manufactured rosewood" used by others... This is made in a very unique way... and REALLY matches speaker to speaker... number 1 to number 2000! The problem is is it is NOT REALLY rosewood... but it looks mighty fine...

More on this subject later... lots to catch up on here while watching the Super Bowl and waiting for my wife's best party cookin'...

All the best...

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post #96 of 3039 Old 02-03-2002, 03:30 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by hudsonfowler
Any progress to report on testing? I know that Mark Schifter has been pursuing this. I'm quite interested to see complete specs on the Diva line.

Also, has anyone experienced a certain lack of midrange in their 6.1s? I've just seen it mentioned a few times and was wondering if anyone else felt that way. Maybe this is a beak-in issue. I suppose a nice freq. response graph could help clear this up too.

Thanks!
Thanks for your post...

I have put the wheels in motion... as I mentioned, I believe this will take some weeks to get done as first of all... we are flush out of stock on many sku's right now...

Second... I want to publish spec's from broken in speakers... and we will test them for ourselves and others at:

new out of the box

100 hours...

200 hours...

300 hours...

This is in process... and I promise you will have this data when it's ready...

I personally have not heard the comment about lack of midrange... this has not been my personal experience... however, I need to mention that the "spider" on that midrange is definitely NOT "loosey goosey"... and it will need a minimum of 300 hours to fully break-in...

All of that data said and done though... YOUR mileage will vary... every speaker works differently in every environment. DIVA products work well "in the home"... they are designed to be a tad forward in presentation... but not in balance...

Thanks...

All the best...

mls

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post #97 of 3039 Old 02-03-2002, 03:36 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by David Scott
Steve, that's why you buy the speakers first, then the entertainment center :D . It still looks good, I need to go out and buy an entertainment center like this because I still have my C3 propped up on several old VHS tapes in front of my TV! The top of my TV is concave and will not support the size or weight of the speaker.
TinHere, the C3 is a great speaker, it's good to see you still floating around as you first turned me on to these beauties way back in the day...
I know there's been some concern from time to time in these threads with people wondering if we all work for AV123 or Swan, but let me assure anyone who's lurking what you see here is simply a group of very satisfied customers who, thanks to AVS forum, have found a place to gather and share a positive experience we've all had in our Diva purchase. Anyone is welcome to audition my set-up (6.1's, 2.1's, R3's and C3) at any time...just drop me a e-mail or PM.
One of these days I'd like to take a road trip and meet some of my fellow Divans, drink a beer and listen to some music...that's what it's all about, being able to enjoy Miles Davis, Metallica or the Doors and know you didn't have to break the bank to do it.
Adios,
Dave
Thanks for this wonderful post...

I could get behind a So. California or Northern California get together in mid April... I'll be in the PRC from mid March to very early April...

Lets see if amongst us we can get a plan together for this... av123 will sponsor all the food and fun...

All the best...

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post #98 of 3039 Old 02-03-2002, 03:41 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by Brucer
Codemarine-

Well, even if pictures distort, I'd say there is a big difference. You have a couple of choices, depending on your skill level.

If I recall right, seems that top coat used in mgf was lacquer. If indeed it was nitrocelulose lacquer, then you could apply (spray only) more top coats, where you add a tint of NGR stain (non-grain raising dye). This allows you to alter color, shade, tone, etc. NGR dye stains are anailine dyes that are in an alcohol base and are fully compatible with lacquer. The color you add in this way will be transparent, ie, dye - not pigment. I use this technique all the time to hone in on color matches. If something is too red - add a little green, etc.

This can be done multiple times - altering color each time. Warning! Depending on mix, things can get darker in a hurry. Finally, one clear top coat seals the color.

Other choice - well you don't want to hear it.

Regards, Bruce

PS. BTW, I thought this picture looked familiar - did you know that someone in the theater construction forum used this exact photo - see "Woodworking plans for ET. center" thread.
All of this worries me... but I guess we can try to help in any fashion possible...

:eek:

Please do let me know if we can do anything...

All the best...

mls

(O.K. the Fatherly worry is subsiding now)...

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post #99 of 3039 Old 02-03-2002, 05:17 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by Archrr
One of these days I'd like to take a road trip and meet some of my fellow Divans, drink a beer and listen to some music...that's what it's all about, being able to enjoy Miles Davis, Metallica or the Doors and know you didn't have to break the bank to do it.

You hit it there Dave. In fact, I gave a demo to another AVS member a little while back (zooplankton) and now that he has his Diva's (score another one for me hehe :), I'm heading over to his place tomorrow for dinner, beer and some Doors, Pink Floyd etc. Whohoo!


RE: the color difference, I'm still going with the difference in lighting is causing the majority of the difference. I run an auto/house/industrial paint store and light changes everything (if you ever get your car repaired and they show you the finished work in the shade, you are screwed...the color didn't match heh)...recall; w/o light, there is no color...


Steve, that's why you buy the speakers first, then the entertainment center

Almost! Buy the speakers then build the ent center :)

Later guys...doing a Diva demo tonight (I know, Friday night...pathetic). He's coming over to demo my 2.1's, little does he know, I'm going to turn him to the 6.1 side of the force. Your check book can not resist my demo prowess!! lol...sorry for cracking myself up there...



Have a good evening, a good beer and a good CD.


Sean
Oh yes...

Helping to build a community is what it is all about...

This is what makes it all worth while Sean...

Thanks...

:D

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post #100 of 3039 Old 02-03-2002, 05:21 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by TinHere


pmf,
Sorry for my folly if you misconstrued it as real concern. I have argued this elsewhere representing the POV that the conditions are modern and the jobs represent opportunity for the workers.

David Scott,
I'm glad to hear the Diva's lived up to the "hype". I have unashamedly admitted being an unpaid and unaffiliated "shill" in many past battles at another venue. I guess there will always be an element that seeks to "rain on the parade" but it is almost certainly someone who hasn't lived with the Diva's.
;)
... :-)

So, you've noticed that huh?

So have we...

Our goal was to build the best product for the price... this is accomplished by using several advantages... but nevertheless... it's JUST what we wanted to do...

:)

ATB...

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post #101 of 3039 Old 02-03-2002, 05:27 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by MattCoon

Steve, you are right. After thinking about the amount of Diva-related traffic I see around here, I can easily imagine that they might get a hefty volume of email. And thanks, I probably will toss out a question or two for the Diva experts here!


Thanks Mark. I apologize, I should not have been so grumbly. I am just hell-bent on getting a set of Divas (my treat to myself for finishing my prelims), and I simply can't understand why everyone else in the world is not devoting all of their time toward my goal:)

In short, there is no need to chastise anyone. (Maybe, though, you should consider an autoresponse to emails, just to reassure us that you have received them and will get in touch with us at your first opportunity?)

I will put some questions in a separate message, and anyone who might wish to chip in advice: it will be appreciated!

Thanks!
Thanks Matt...

Replied via e-mail a little while ago...

Thanks for the opportunity...

All the best...

mls

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post #102 of 3039 Old 02-03-2002, 05:31 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by bodegabay
Mark,

I was wondering...AV123 must incurr some fairly helfty charges for shipping these across the Pacific. I hope all are ship via ocean freight, otherwise the air bill will kill ya!

We shipp multiport Integrated RJ45s via ocean and it's not bad - but try sending them by air and it's a doozie.

BTW, is production to stop in Feb for CNY?
Spot on Vu...

We use 40- foot "High Qube" ocean containers ONLY... any other way would be way cost prohibitive

Our factory is closed from 9 February to 20 February for CYN... Let the party begin...

All the best...

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post #103 of 3039 Old 02-03-2002, 05:40 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by SoundBlaster




The initial color and the patina that develops over time depend on both the wood species and the finish materials (stain, if any, clear coats, etc.).

Mark: any specifics you might provide on both would be extremely helpful in understanding how much the color is likely to change over time (depending in part on the amount of exposure to light), and how one might proceed in order to repair or alter the finish (such as color matching), and of course would be key in matching DIY projects (in the short and long run).

If the above and the finishing methodology can be nailed down it might also be relatively easy to provide veneer samples to prospective buyers who don’t have to option of experiencing the Divas in person, or at least aren’t at that point yet…

Thanks for your post SoundBlaster...

I posted earlier about species... wish I could remember more...

I can tell you that the finish process is currently a 6 steps, using different grit (sanding) as it progresses...

I have seen only VERY minor lightening over a long time...

We have no mechanism to alter or special order ANYTHING at this time... Perhaps in the future... but this sort of goes against the grain on "how" we are doing what we are doing... (Hope that makes some sense)...

Veneer samples may be possible... but then we must make samples for every "long buy" of veneer the factory gets... sounds tough...

In any event...

All the best...

mls

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post #104 of 3039 Old 02-03-2002, 05:42 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by Brucer
Mark Schifter-

Just noticed your banner add - above. Good Move! See it does get noticed.

Regards, Bruce
Good to know...

Thanks...

mls

(I noticed it too)...

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post #105 of 3039 Old 02-03-2002, 05:47 PM
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[quote]Originally posted by sheppard
[b]Comparison of Axiom M3Ti and Swans Diva 2.1
(I'm also starting a new thread on this because as I discovered, it's hard to search for reviews in a thread this long)

This is GREAT stuff guys...

My only comment is that these woofers need 300 hours to really rock...

(Commercial now switched off)...

Thanks...

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post #106 of 3039 Old 02-03-2002, 07:59 PM
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Santos Rosewood also known as Pau Ferro (Santos) - Machaerium scleroxylon (Bolivia), specific gravity=.85

Medium size tree w/ diameter= 0.5m grows near border of Brazil and Bolivia. Heartwood varies from light pink-brown to violet brown, usually streaked with varying light and dark colors. Sapwood is narrow and pale yellow.

Not a true Rosewood. Most rosewoods are in the Dalbergia xxxx family. Typically a little lighter color than most other common rosewoods.

Nice stuff - shouldn't be too dificult to get veneers for making other accessories/ furniture etc. Other users include Aerial, Steinway, to name a couple. Search to net to see other examples.

Seshua ????? don't know

Regards, Bruce
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post #107 of 3039 Old 02-03-2002, 08:34 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by Brucer
Santos Rosewood also known as Pau Ferro (Santos) - Machaerium scleroxylon (Bolivia), specific gravity=.85

Medium size tree w/ diameter= 0.5m grows near border of Brazil and Bolivia. Heartwood varies from light pink-brown to violet brown, usually streaked with varying light and dark colors. Sapwood is narrow and pale yellow.

Not a true Rosewood. Most rosewoods are in the Dalbergia xxxx family. Typically a little lighter color than most other common rosewoods.

Nice stuff - shouldn't be too dificult to get veneers for making other accessories/ furniture etc. Other users include Aerial, Steinway, to name a couple. Search to net to see other examples.

Seshua ????? don't know

Regards, Bruce
I know I'm spelling that one wrong... if I said it to you I'm certain you'd know what it is...

Thanks again...

All the best...

mls

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post #108 of 3039 Old 02-03-2002, 08:36 PM
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On the Rosewood front... Santos Rosewood looks basically like a less expensive version of traditional Brazilian Rosewood and is what is typically found in things such as speakers. Santos is a very pretty wood but doesn't have the richness of Brazilian. Brazilian runs about $10-12 / sq ft for veneer and around $40-60 / board foot for solids. Brazilian is very difficult to get in large pieces as it is listed as an endangered species under CITES and is strictly controlled by the Brazilian government. If you are environmentally concious, you should avoid using Brazilian Rosewood or purchasing things that were made with large quantities of it. I would be very disappointed in Diva if they were using Brazilian Rosewood but in all likelihood it is Santos. Santos on the other hand is much more plentiful and costs roughly 1/4-1/3 of Brazilian.

The one thing to keep in mind about Rosewood if you are going to undertake any projects involving the wood (especially Brazilian, Coco Bolo. etc...) is that it is VERY difficult to work with and therefore makes anything built with it more expensive and time consuming. It also makes an unbelievable mess and the red sawdust gets into everything. Brazilian will eat a contractor circular saw for breakfast and almost did a good number with a Delta cabinet unisaw.
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post #109 of 3039 Old 02-03-2002, 08:37 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by Scott Burns
How would you go about getting 5 of the 6.1 speakers for a multichannel DVD-A/SACD setup? They are sold on the website by the pair and I tried entering 2.5 into the cart but it rounded to 2.

Thanks,
Scott Burns
You are correct... our e-com engine does not let anyone do this... We absolutely allow for this though...

May we contact you... or you are free to call or e-mail us...

Thanks...


ATB...

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post #110 of 3039 Old 02-03-2002, 08:53 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by Brucer
Actually, maybe I should re-state this one....

Mark Schifter -

Is there a way to order a complete set of speakers (not just pairs, but with centers and surrounds) where the veneers all come out of the same sequential flitch? And/Or can they be ordered without any veneer?

For those that don't know, Flitch = log through a cheese slicer (so to speak), kept in sequential order.

Steve- thanks, the trail continues on my earlier post, go follow it:D .

Regards, Bruce
I guess the answer is that we *can* do this by matching inbound QA records of time and date built...

This is not easy... and please allow me to comment that we are not charging Genesis prices here...

I CAN however pick you a set when I'm in China and mark them as such... THIS is easy for me to do... They will arrive in the very next container AFTER I mark them... This practice would be hard to do all the time however... as my travel plans are not always cast in stone.

Difficult stuff to answer given we have only so much time for QA procedures etc. and that we then re-pack everything once it is checked...

Hope my answer is O.K. given the context...

All the best...

mls

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post #111 of 3039 Old 02-03-2002, 08:56 PM
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[quote]Originally posted by George328
[b]Well, my 4.1's and C3 are around 60 hours into their burn-in. So many people have already posted their impressions on the Divas. Let me try and put it in different terms.

Thanks so much for your comments... Made me smile... post Rams let down... :rolleyes:

My dog does not seem to like the DIVA's OR the new Genesis 2000 models I've been working on... (He's a chocolate Lab named Graham... he prefers playing Soccer Goalie-Man outside to listening anyway... :D

Again... our thanks...

All the best...

mls

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post #112 of 3039 Old 02-03-2002, 10:39 PM
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OK, check this out:

http://home.attbi.com/~archer204/webvs_1.jpg

Of course looks aren't everything, but dam* the Diva looks good.

I'm going to break those 2.1's in so hard they won't be able to walk for a week.

:D

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post #113 of 3039 Old 02-03-2002, 10:58 PM
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Scooter-

Not to mention, rosewoods (and other exotics) are extremely toxic (your sensitivity may vary). I can't hardly look at cocobolo (dalbergia retusa S.G. 1.10) any more, without breaking out in rashes and every oriface in my body running (eyes glued shut). It's a shame as I still have a solid slab the size of a railroad tie.

Let's see - 15K+ on entertainment center to match 1.3k speakers - could be a hard sell! Of course, then again you never know. Any takers?

Mark- thanks, will let you know.

Regards, Bruce
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post #114 of 3039 Old 02-03-2002, 11:01 PM
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I've got some semblance of a web site up now. I'm my first, so I'm learning as I go. The only things that work presently are the 'pics' page and the 'about the rack' page....but even those aren't done yet....but at least you can get an idea...


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Sean

edit
forgot to hit that spell check :)

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post #115 of 3039 Old 02-03-2002, 11:01 PM
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I *finally* got around to setting up the new 3802 today and giving a listen to the 4.1s I just got!

To be honest, my initial impression was "nice sound, nice bass, *very* nice imaging" ... but it didn't quite blow me away like I was expecting/hoping :rolleyes:

Certainly, I suppose this could be due to the fact that they're fresh out of the box, and need to be broken in?

Here's the distressing thing, though...

After playing w/the Divas for a short while, I decided to play w/the Denon's 5-stereo feature (was using B&W DM601s1's for surrounds, since the 2.1s were on backorder); btw, the center wasn't hooked up yet, so I suppose 4-stereo would be closer to the mark.

When I turned on the multi-stereo mode (for reference, I was listening to Pink Floyd's The Machine at the time) I was quite surprised to hear the little 601 surrounds nearly overwhelm the fronts! (Actually, in hindsight, this may have been due to two reasons: 1) the surrounds were twice as close to the listening position as the fronts, and 2) the surrounds were angled in, pointing directly at me ... I'll have to try this test again w/the speakers facing directly into the room)

Even so, however, I did notice that the vocals from the 601s were much more ... hmm, I'm not even sure how to describe it. They were much more present, I guess (brighter, maybe?)

I thought that pehaps this was due to the "forwardness" B&W's are often known for ... and as it turns out, I happen to like that type of sound - however, I'm a little bummed to not get that from the 4.1s, I suppose.

Or, again, might this get better with break-in time? (BTW, I purchased the 601s used a few weeks ago, so they're most certainly already "broken in").
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post #116 of 3039 Old 02-03-2002, 11:03 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by Mark L. Schifter
I could get behind a So. California or Northern California get together in mid April... I'll be in the PRC from mid March to very early April...

Lets see if amongst us we can get a plan together for this... av123 will sponsor all the food and fun...

All the best...

mls

I'm up for that :)



Sean

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post #117 of 3039 Old 02-03-2002, 11:05 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by Archrr
I've got some semblence of a web site up now. I'm my first, so I'm learning as I go. The only things that work presently are the 'pics' page and the 'about the rack' page....but even those aren't done yet....but at least you can get an idea...

Sean
Hey, Sean...

Nice finish on the new rack - looks sweet, and the Diva's accent it quite nicely.

Sweeeet stand for the C3, btw! :p
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post #118 of 3039 Old 02-03-2002, 11:09 PM
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Thanks netarc. Al's building the center stand and a facade for the gray part of the Tosh this week...

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post #119 of 3039 Old 02-04-2002, 05:38 AM
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Yeah, I couple friends of mine said this "break-in" period is a load of bunk. That it's only purpose is so that users burn up their trial periods. And that the dealers are hoping you'll just get used to the speakers in that period of time and not return them. And, that the only change that takes place IS the user acclimating to them or perhaps adjusting to climate, ie. drying out.... They claimed if there was actual physical change that it would continue throughout the life of the speaker and shouldn't always be for the better.

I told them I really thought there'd been an improvement with break-in on my 4.1s, but they just acted as if I'd been suckered. BTW: they did think the Diva's looked and sounded nice... just that this whole break-in was dealer snake oil. Can someone convince me it's not? Like I said, they do seem to have improved with break-in, but I can't dismiss the possibility that I just got used to them or acclimated.

Also, I just noticed my new 4.1s have a couple places about 3inx4in that look cloudy or lighter and fogged..... as if something went wrong with the laquer finishing and not the wood itself.... kind of like what happens with finished wood gets damp. It doesn't really stand out that much unless you're looking for it, but with all these reports of flawless finishing, I'm wondering if I inadvertantly got factory blems without knowing it. Or are flaws like this generally expected and normal? These also weren't double-boxed like everyone else have been reporting so I wonder if I didn't get the "A" class batch. Can't decide whether to just live with it, or return before the 30 days are up. What would you do?

skip hunt
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post #120 of 3039 Old 02-04-2002, 05:42 AM
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Also, I just noticed my new 4.1s have a couple places about 3inx4in that look cloudy or lighter and fogged..... as if something went wrong with the laquer finishing and not the wood itself.... kind of like what happens with finished wood gets wet. It doesn't really stand out that much unless you're looking for it, but with all these reports of flawless finishing, I'm wondering if I inadvertantly got factory blems without knowing it. Can't decide whether to just live with it, or return before the 30 days are up. What would you do?

skip hunt


Call Mark

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